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11-14-2007

Thanks for confirming that Lee.

--
Kirk Munro
Poshoholic
http://poshoholic.com

"Lee Holmes [MSFT]" <leeholm@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:473b2681$1@xxxxxx

Quote:

> The Exchange Management Shell goes 100% through PowerShell cmdlets.
>
> --
> Lee Holmes [MSFT]
> Windows PowerShell Development
> Microsoft Corporation
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
>
>
> "Kirk Munro" <sorry@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:#R61E$tIIHA.4808@xxxxxx

Quote:

>> Ok, a diagram is clearly in order here because some people aren't
>> understanding what I'm trying to ask here (although that may be my
>> fault).
>>
>> I understand the EMC, how it doesn't provide all of the functionality
>> available in the cmdlets, etc. I also understand the Exchange Management
>> Shell, and that it is just loading a profile to pre-configure PowerShell
>> with the Exchange snapin loaded. I only mentioned these things because I
>> wanted to set up the question.
>>
>> I've also heard (and Richard as well) that the EMC was built on top of
>> the Exchange PowerShell cmdlets. But is that accurate, or are they
>> saying that it is using the same functionality that the cmdlets use and
>> trying to convey how anything you can do in EMC you can do in PowerShell?
>>
>> Is the architecture something like this:
>>
>> EMC presentation layer
>> ------------------------
>> Exchange PoSh cmdlets
>> ------------------------
>> .NET Exchange classes
>>
>> or is it more like this:
>>
>> EMC presentation layer Exchange PoSh cmdlets
>> ------------------------ ------------------------
>> .NET Exchange classes .NET Exchange classes
>>
>> where they've made sure that everything you can do in EMC you can do in
>> the Exchange cmdlets as well, but where technically the EMC presentation
>> layer doesn't call the Exchange PoSh cmdlets directly?
>>
>> I thought it was the former up until recently, so I thought I should
>> raise the question to find out one way or the other. Here's why I'd like
>> to know this. I've spoken with some product teams debating between
>> taking the double interface approach (presentation layer and PoSh
>> cmdlets) instead of the layered interface approach (presentation layer on
>> top of PoSh cmdlets) because of performance concerns, and I'm trying to
>> find out how valid those performance concerns are. Clearly having an
>> extra layer to go through will add some overhead, but is it significant
>> enough to be concerned about it?
>>
>> I've used the EMC quite a bit and haven't had any complaints about
>> performance in that console yet, but in recent tests I can see that it
>> retrieves information from AD faster than I get it using PowerShell
>> cmdlets directly so I would like to know if it's actually going through
>> PowerShell or not.
>>
>> Does that clarify the question?

>>
>> --
>> Kirk Munro
>> Poshoholic
>> http://poshoholic.com
>>
>>
>> "Thomas Lee" <tfl@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:vTvj+cJWXDNHFAre@xxxxxx

Quote:

>>> In message <eUEewgkIIHA.3848@xxxxxx>, Kirk Munro
>>> <sorry@xxxxxx> writes
>>>>Hi Shay,
>>>>
>>>>That's not quite what I'm looking for.
>>>>
>>>>Exchange 2007 can be administered through either the Exchange Management
>>>>Console (EMC) or through the Exchange PowerShell cmdlets that come with
>>>>the
>>>>EMC. I've heard Microsoft state that there isn't anything that you can
>>>>do
>>>>in the EMC that you can't to using the Exchange PowerShell cmdlets.
>>>>It's
>>>>actually the opposite: that there are things you can do using the
>>>>Exchange
>>>>PowerShell cmdlets that you can't do using the EMC.
>>>
>>> True. EMC (Pre Sp1) was like 80% coverage compared with EMS. Sp1
>>> improves things a bit, but there's still mileage in EMS!!
>>>
>>>>So given that information, I need to know two things:
>>>>
>>>>1. Does the EMC presentation layer sit on top of:
>>>> a) the Exchange PowerShell cmdlets
>>>> or
>>>> b) the .NET classes that are used to administer Exchange, in which
>>>> case
>>>>there would be two direct interfaces to those objects: EMC presentation
>>>>layer and Exchange PowerShell cmdlets.
>>>
>>> The EMC snapin is just another snapin. You could run powershell and add
>>> the snapin, or modify the various profile files to add in additional
>>> snap-ins when using EMS (eg powergadgets, PSCX, etx).
>>>
>>> If you look carefully at the shortcut created when Exchange is
>>> installed, invoking EMS is just a call to Powershell using a saved
>>> console and running a sort of start-up a script (Exchange.PS1).
>>> Personally, I've re-built the Exchange.ps1 script on my Exchange boxes,
>>> and have changed the profiles to load the other add-ins, add some
>>> aliases and functions, etc.
>>>
>>>>2. If the EMC is a presentation layer that sits on top of the Exchange
>>>>PowerShell cmdlets and that doesn't interact directly with the .NET
>>>>classes
>>>>that are used to administer Exchange 2007, what performance impact does
>>>>this
>>>>extra layer incur when compared to interacting with the .NET classes
>>>>that
>>>>are used to administer Exchange 2007 directly?
>>>
>>> No idea. The EMC is a layer on top of Powershell. This, in turn sits on
>>> .NET. I'm not clear on the question however.
>>>
>>> I suggest you play a bit with EMS!
>>>
>>>>Does that make more sense?
>>>
>>> Not fully! But that's probably my problem.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>> --
>>> Thomas Lee
>>> doctordns@xxxxxx
>>> MVP - Admin Frameworks and Security

>>
>>

11-14-2007	#10 (permalink)
Kirk Munro n/a posts	Re: Question about Exchange Management Console and Exchange cmdlets Thanks for confirming that Lee. -- Kirk Munro Poshoholic http://poshoholic.com "Lee Holmes [MSFT]" <leeholm@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:473b2681$1@xxxxxx Quote: > The Exchange Management Shell goes 100% through PowerShell cmdlets. > > -- > Lee Holmes [MSFT] > Windows PowerShell Development > Microsoft Corporation > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no > rights. > > > "Kirk Munro" <sorry@xxxxxx> wrote in message > news:#R61E$tIIHA.4808@xxxxxx Quote: >> Ok, a diagram is clearly in order here because some people aren't >> understanding what I'm trying to ask here (although that may be my >> fault). >> >> I understand the EMC, how it doesn't provide all of the functionality >> available in the cmdlets, etc. I also understand the Exchange Management >> Shell, and that it is just loading a profile to pre-configure PowerShell >> with the Exchange snapin loaded. I only mentioned these things because I >> wanted to set up the question. >> >> I've also heard (and Richard as well) that the EMC was built on top of >> the Exchange PowerShell cmdlets. But is that accurate, or are they >> saying that it is using the same functionality that the cmdlets use and >> trying to convey how anything you can do in EMC you can do in PowerShell? >> >> Is the architecture something like this: >> >> EMC presentation layer >> ------------------------ >> Exchange PoSh cmdlets >> ------------------------ >> .NET Exchange classes >> >> or is it more like this: >> >> EMC presentation layer Exchange PoSh cmdlets >> ------------------------ ------------------------ >> .NET Exchange classes .NET Exchange classes >> >> where they've made sure that everything you can do in EMC you can do in >> the Exchange cmdlets as well, but where technically the EMC presentation >> layer doesn't call the Exchange PoSh cmdlets directly? >> >> I thought it was the former up until recently, so I thought I should >> raise the question to find out one way or the other. Here's why I'd like >> to know this. I've spoken with some product teams debating between >> taking the double interface approach (presentation layer and PoSh >> cmdlets) instead of the layered interface approach (presentation layer on >> top of PoSh cmdlets) because of performance concerns, and I'm trying to >> find out how valid those performance concerns are. Clearly having an >> extra layer to go through will add some overhead, but is it significant >> enough to be concerned about it? >> >> I've used the EMC quite a bit and haven't had any complaints about >> performance in that console yet, but in recent tests I can see that it >> retrieves information from AD faster than I get it using PowerShell >> cmdlets directly so I would like to know if it's actually going through >> PowerShell or not. >> >> Does that clarify the question? >> >> -- >> Kirk Munro >> Poshoholic >> http://poshoholic.com >> >> >> "Thomas Lee" <tfl@xxxxxx> wrote in message >> news:vTvj+cJWXDNHFAre@xxxxxx Quote: >>> In message <eUEewgkIIHA.3848@xxxxxx>, Kirk Munro >>> <sorry@xxxxxx> writes >>>>Hi Shay, >>>> >>>>That's not quite what I'm looking for. >>>> >>>>Exchange 2007 can be administered through either the Exchange Management >>>>Console (EMC) or through the Exchange PowerShell cmdlets that come with >>>>the >>>>EMC. I've heard Microsoft state that there isn't anything that you can >>>>do >>>>in the EMC that you can't to using the Exchange PowerShell cmdlets. >>>>It's >>>>actually the opposite: that there are things you can do using the >>>>Exchange >>>>PowerShell cmdlets that you can't do using the EMC. >>> >>> True. EMC (Pre Sp1) was like 80% coverage compared with EMS. Sp1 >>> improves things a bit, but there's still mileage in EMS!! >>> >>>>So given that information, I need to know two things: >>>> >>>>1. Does the EMC presentation layer sit on top of: >>>> a) the Exchange PowerShell cmdlets >>>> or >>>> b) the .NET classes that are used to administer Exchange, in which >>>> case >>>>there would be two direct interfaces to those objects: EMC presentation >>>>layer and Exchange PowerShell cmdlets. >>> >>> The EMC snapin is just another snapin. You could run powershell and add >>> the snapin, or modify the various profile files to add in additional >>> snap-ins when using EMS (eg powergadgets, PSCX, etx). >>> >>> If you look carefully at the shortcut created when Exchange is >>> installed, invoking EMS is just a call to Powershell using a saved >>> console and running a sort of start-up a script (Exchange.PS1). >>> Personally, I've re-built the Exchange.ps1 script on my Exchange boxes, >>> and have changed the profiles to load the other add-ins, add some >>> aliases and functions, etc. >>> >>>>2. If the EMC is a presentation layer that sits on top of the Exchange >>>>PowerShell cmdlets and that doesn't interact directly with the .NET >>>>classes >>>>that are used to administer Exchange 2007, what performance impact does >>>>this >>>>extra layer incur when compared to interacting with the .NET classes >>>>that >>>>are used to administer Exchange 2007 directly? >>> >>> No idea. The EMC is a layer on top of Powershell. This, in turn sits on >>> .NET. I'm not clear on the question however. >>> >>> I suggest you play a bit with EMS! >>> >>>>Does that make more sense? >>> >>> Not fully! But that's probably my problem. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Thomas >>> -- >>> Thomas Lee >>> doctordns@xxxxxx >>> MVP - Admin Frameworks and Security >> >>
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