"Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:eMvS3QrbJHA.1704@xxxxxx
Quote:
> Thanks, Robert. That's cleared up a few more grey areas for me. The
> reason for the delay in replying is that I grasped the nettle,
> having read a number of posts where it said that the latest build
> was quite stable, and installed 14.0.8050.1202,
Quote:
> since when I've had
> more crashes than I had in over a year's operation of 12.0.1606 
Error Signatures? Also, did you uninstall the old WLMail before installing
the new one? (It won't affect your message caches to do that
but you might want to back them up JIC. <W>) It may also be relevant to know
if you installed any of the other Live Essentials products at the same time
and if you uninstalled any previously installed versions of those products too.
Quote:
>
> Just a couple of questions - why (I'm more interested in the 'why'
> than the 'how') would anyone wish to specify 'Headers only' as a
> sync option, since as far as I can see there's no difference at all
> between that and 'All messages'?
As I tried to explain but was somewhat inconvenienced by having
to agree with one of your statements <w>, the difference occurs
when the Get 300 messages at a time option is checked.
E.g. if you suspect you are going to be able to get more than
300 messages from a newsgroup and want to see
all possible headers but only headers Synchronize Headers Only
(done before entering the newsgroup) would do that.
I think the key concept to grasp when thinking about the Get 300...
option is that it is used automatically when you enter a newsgroup.
If you sometimes want to use it, e.g. when sampling new newsgroups
it is helpful. OTOH if you are trying to maintain a complete cache
or see all possible messages you should either normally leave it
unchecked or be careful about not entering a newsgroup while
in a Working Onlne state, at least until you download all the new
ones using a Synchronize command to get it up-to-date.
Notice that you can avoid entering a newsgroup without having
to go offline and still synchronize it before entering it by
using either the Synchronize All or Synchronize Account commands.
In order to use the Synchronize Newsgroup command instead
you would have to be in a Working Offline state first,
then enter the newsgroup and then issue the command;
otherwise, at least when your synchronization criterion
was New Messages, the automatic Get next... would
be done first and that would change the definition of
"New" for your intended Synchronize Newsgroup command.
Quote:
> And equally 'Get ... headers' seems
> to do exactly the same as 'Sync selected newsgroup'.
Again, it depends on whether that Get 300... option is checked.
If it is checked Tools, Get Next 300... (or the Headers button
in the toolbar) would download just the latest 300 headers,
not all of them. If the option is unchecked, then you're right,
a Synchronize command with Headers Only wouldn't have
much advantage to simply entering each newsgroup and
letting the automatic Get (unlimited because the option is
unchecked) do that for you. OTOH I like to see the summary
of the number of headers downloaded and whether watched
threads are being updated before just picking one newsgroup
to start with.
Quote:
> I notice that F5 is now officially a shortcut for 'Sync all newsgroups'.
But it appears to be only more of a... for (all newsgroups) do synch newsgroup.
Ctrl-F5 is closer to the old Sychronize All. E.g. when Watched threads
are involved (which I use a lot) I don't see a potentially problematic extra task
in the Status window. Long ago that extra task burned me in OE
and I got into the habit of avoiding it by using Synchronize All (then Ctrl-Shift-M)
The problem supposedly was eventually fixed in a version of OE
but I think the last time I formally tested it in WLMail it still was present
apparently regressed in the ported code. If you want to see more of
an explanation of this issue search the OE NG (all the way back to OE5)
with the search expression: "Loose Catch-Up". Do the search in
Google Groups instead of the MS Communities web interface to newsgroups
because a lot of my posts don't get rated, so many threads I post in eventually
get discarded... ; )
Bizarre! Google Groups is FUBAR. Refuses to acknowledge author:
or group: search term attributes. Also, Advanced search starts out
with a date range of 1 day... ; }
Anyway, this can give you a taste of what I'm referring to...
http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...=b&sitesearch=
Robert
---
Quote:
> --
> Noel
>
> "Robert Aldwinckle" <robald@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:C80D9BE4-8BF8-4E50-827B-E66B5FDB5102@xxxxxx Quote:
>>
>>
>> "Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:Oh49$n6aJHA.1268@xxxxxx Quote:
>>> Thanks, Mike. That's cleared a few things up. I've put some
>>> comments
>>> inline...
>>>
>>> "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec@xxxxxx> wrote in
>>> message
>>> news:ej9nzR5aJHA.1184@xxxxxx
>>>> I can answer some of those questions. Although I'm speculating
>>>> on
>>>> some of them.
>>>>
>>>> You'll find some additional information in Help by searching
>>>> under
>>>> Synchronize.
>>>
>>> I fear not - see screenshot.
>>>
>>>> View > Refresh (= F5) (Also on toolbar)
>>>> Refreshes the view. So if you have the view set to hide read
>>>> messages, those you have read recently will get hidden.
>> Quote:
>>> IT also seems to do a synchronize on the newsgroup.
>>
>>
>> Only in the newest version. IIRC in the version that you are
>> asking
>> about F5 does what it has always done even in OE, just issue an
>> NNTP LIST command. Note: you would have to do a netcap
>> trace to see this. It is not something which is even hinted at
>> by
>> the troubleshooting log. Also, just saying F5 is not very
>> precise.
>> Context matters, although it is less apparent in WLMail than it
>> is in OE. E.g. Synchronize newsgroup can only be done while
>> a newsgroup is open.
>>
>> Quote:
>>>
>>> Yes, that's what F5 has done since about DOS 2.0. That's why I
>>> found
>>> it strange that the only effect I see is the same as Synchronize
>>> newsgroup - unless I happen to have an account selected, in which
>>> case it seems to download the names of all newsgroups on the
>>> server.
>>>
>>>> The difference between Synchronize All and Newsgroup is that the
>>>> latter does only the current newsgroup. How much gets
>>>> synchronized depends on your settings (Headers only or Messages)
>>>
>>> That makes sense, although I can't work out the difference
>>> between
>>> the various sorts of synchronization. I can't see any difference
>>> at
>>> all whether I choose Headers only or All messages or New messages
>>> only. If I select an account and then click Synchronize Account
>>> on
>>> the toolbar, I seem to get new messages (if there are any) in all
>>> newsgroups under that account. And Synchronize All seems to poll
>>> all
>>> my POP accounts for new messages as well as every other mail and
>>> news account, and it takes forever.
>>
>>
>> It's really pretty simple: Headers gets only headers; the maximum
>> number of
>> headers depends on the Get ___ headers at a time option and
>> whether
>> it is checked. If you use a synchronize command you have the
>> additional
>> effect of being able to download bodies at the same time.
>> (Actually
>> it is done as soon as possible after the headers are downloaded.)
>> The main difference between Synchronize New Messages Only
>> and Synchronize All Messages has to do with headers which were
>> _previously_ downloaded and with whether a Catch Up has been
>> done. E.g. if a Catch Up had not been done but headers had been
>> downloaded using Get 300... then Sychronize All Messages could
>> try to download more than those 300 as well has filling in the
>> bodies
>> of those old headers which were already downloaded.
>>
>> BTW the best way to get familiar with what the functions are IMO
>> is to use the troubleshooting log and see how the client reacts
>> to the 211 response to group request.
>>
>> Quote:
>>>
>>>> The Get next xx headers only applies if you have set Tools,
>>>> Options, Read to get xxx headers at a time.
>>>
>>> If I don't set that, the option becomes Get New headers - what's
>>> the
>>> difference?
>>
>>
>> Regarding headers? None.
>>
>> Quote:
>>> And what's the difference between Get ... headers and
>>> Synchronize?
>>
>>
>> A synchronize command doesn't pay any attention to the Get ___
>> value. It just gets headers and bodies depending on both
>> your last use of the newsgroup and on your synchronization
>> criterion for that newsgroup.
>>
>> Quote:
>>> Is it that Synchronize lops all the old messages off
>>> the top of the list whereas Get ... headers doesn't?
>>
>>
>> I don't think so, I think that is only dependent on the
>> low sequence number in the 211 reply to group request.
>>
>> Quote:
>>> In which case,
>>> if I only used Get ... headers, I would retain all the old posts,
>>> including those that no longer reside on the server? I've been
>>> looking for a way to do that for a long time.
>>
>>
>> That can only happen by accident of the server never updating
>> the low sequence number in the 211 reply to group request.
>>
>> Quote:
>>>
>>>> New headers/messages mean since you last download headers
>>>> (synchronized) with the newsgroup.
>>>
>>> So somewhere - locally, suppose - there is a flag that says when
>>> I
>>> last synchronized - is that regardless of the type of
>>> synchronization? And does it count if instead of choosing
>>> Synchronize, I select Get ... headers? Or press F5?
>>
>>
>> I doubt it. Again, all that would be required would be to
>> remember
>> a previous 211 reply to group r