Joomla & Vista

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Jrock81

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I had a couple questions about vista and Joomla.

I've found that their arn't really to many vista users in the "help" forums over there so maybe this thread here can help.

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When I got started moving/ downloading files I had to change my UAC (user account control) settings lower, or remove them all together.

Will this have an adverse effect to my lap top?
Note: I don't have the site up yet.
 

My Computer

System One

Hello Jrock81, welcome to Vista forums!

Yes, UAC is a vital part of system security in Vista and you leave your laptop open to random infection from the internet, as it disables "Protected Mode" in IE. It will also slow down Vista performance when left disabled.







Later :shock: Ted
 

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    * BFK Customs *
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I dont understand why you would need to disable UAC, but it really should be turned back on.
 

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    Windows 11 Workstation
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    doofenshmirtz evil incorporated
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    Ryzen 9 5950X
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    Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Formula
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    Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO Black 64GB (4x16GB) 3600MHz AMD Ryzen Tuned DDR4
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    ASUS AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT 16GB ROG Strix LC OC
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    Creative
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    3 x27" Dell U2724D & 1 x 34" Dell U3415W
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The only reason I took it down, was to download apache. I was having problems doing so, and I watched some video that said to do it. It worked, but now I guess I should set it back up now thanks.
 

My Computer

System One

My Computer

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  • CPU
    Intel Core 2 Duo E6400
    Motherboard
    Intel DG965WH
    Memory
    3 Gigs
    Graphics Card(s)
    PNY Nvidia 9800GTX
    Hard Drives
    Exelstar 160 GB 7200 spin rate Serial ATA (SATA)

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Intel E6600 @ 3.0 GHz
    Motherboard
    EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NF68-A1)
    Memory
    4GB - CORSAIR XMS2 PC2 6400
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640MB)
    Hard Drives
    2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (320GB)
    1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (500GB)
sidewinder said:
Bare Foot Kid said:
It [disabling UAC] will also slow down Vista performance when left disabled.
Click to expand...
How?

S-
Click to expand...

The UAC Visualization driver is left enabled even if you disable UAC and it 'Waits' for the Integrity-Level (IL) check from the kernel, All programs and services also 'wait" for this IL check and only proceed after timing out, Its the down-side to UAC developed programs and having UAC disabled.

UAC has really good security features not found in previous operating systems, refer to this topic for more information http://www.vistax64.com/vista-news/169953-five-misunderstood-features-windows-vista.html

Steven
 

My Computer

System One

dmex said:
The UAC Visualization driver is left enabled even if you disable UAC and it 'Waits' for the Integrity-Level (IL) check from the kernel, All programs and services also 'wait" for this IL check and only proceed after timing out, Its the down-side to UAC developed programs and having UAC disabled.

UAC has really good security features not found in previous operating systems, refer to this topic for more information http://www.vistax64.com/vista-news/169953-five-misunderstood-features-windows-vista.html
Click to expand...
I don't need a refresher on the advantages, for some anyway, of UAC.

I wanted to understand how disabling UAC would affect performance. I run as an administrator with UAC turned off and I NEVER see any delays. How do these delays manifest themselves? Do they affect "Standard User" and "Administrator" account types or only "Standard User" accounts.

Where can I read about these delays? I have done a cursory search on Google and found nothing.

S-

Also, based on what I have been to reading everywhere and from what I have experienced, disabling UAC has the same effect as clicking on "Allow" when the UAC box pops up. Based on that, how can there be a performance slow down?

S-

Maybe I see no delays because I have UAC enabled but set to "Elevate without Prompting".

Regardless, please point me to a technical document that explains these delays...

S-
 
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My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Intel E6600 @ 3.0 GHz
    Motherboard
    EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NF68-A1)
    Memory
    4GB - CORSAIR XMS2 PC2 6400
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640MB)
    Hard Drives
    2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (320GB)
    1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (500GB)
Does anyone have technical information to backup the assertion that disabling UAC will slow down Vista? Or is this just something somebody heard and passes along as fact? Where are the details? Why is this not common knowledge and why is this not reported as an issue all over the Internet by people who have turned off UAC?

How long is this Integrity-Level (IL) check timeout? Can it be adjusted?

S-
 

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Intel E6600 @ 3.0 GHz
    Motherboard
    EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NF68-A1)
    Memory
    4GB - CORSAIR XMS2 PC2 6400
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640MB)
    Hard Drives
    2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (320GB)
    1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (500GB)
sidewinder said:
Does anyone have technical information to backup the assertion that disabling UAC will slow down Vista? Or is this just something somebody heard and passes along as fact? Where are the details? Why is this not common knowledge and why is this not reported as an issue all over the Internet by people who have turned off UAC?
Click to expand...

Its not a issue for everyone with superfast computers, some do have this problem while others dont...Its also just something most people dont care about since they never check there Performance logs (Event_Viewer\Applications & Services Logs\Microsoft\Windows\Diagnostics-Performance\Operational) You can see the time takes to boot drivers and services from there,

I dont disable UAC so I dont know if this problem still exists, I think it was partially fixed for 85% of users not using UAC when ServicePack1 was released this year...

Find out for yourself, just look at the Performance Log boot times with UAC enabled over a few days then do the same with it turned off and compare the average boot time...You will find it boots faster with UAC enabled.

This is the original article I read a few months ago just before SP1 was released...Chris123NT is a highly respected Microsoft MVP
Chris123NT’s Blog » Publications » Vista’s UAC Failing Once Again


How long is this Integrity-Level (IL) check timeout? Can it be adjusted?
Click to expand...
The timeout is about 0-5 seconds when It doesn't get a IL-Check response with UAC disabled but it depends all on your hardware and current CPU utilization... When UAC is enabled that time is infinite since you have to authorize the prompt or enter a password to continue...It cant be adjusted because its hard-coded into the Kernel but if your not maxing your CPU utilization its absolutely nothing to worry about ;)
 

My Computer

System One

dmex,

Okay, turning off UAC slows down boot time. That's a lot different than slowing down Vista performance.

Where is there any documentation from anyone that shows it slows down Vista after it has booted?

S-
 

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Intel E6600 @ 3.0 GHz
    Motherboard
    EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NF68-A1)
    Memory
    4GB - CORSAIR XMS2 PC2 6400
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640MB)
    Hard Drives
    2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (320GB)
    1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (500GB)
dmex said:
Its also just something most people dont care about since they never check there Performance logs (Event_Viewer\Applications & Services Logs\Microsoft\Windows\Diagnostics-Performance\Operational) You can see the time takes to boot drivers and services from there,
Click to expand...

The documentation is the "Operational" Performance log found above, If you want to check it yourself do (StartupTime + With UAC) and (StartupTime + Without UAC) = AverageBootTime with and Without UAC and you have your answer...I found the Average booted faster with UAC :geek:

Find out for yourself, just look at the Performance Log boot times with UAC enabled over a few days then do the same with it turned off and compare the average boot time...You will find it boots faster with UAC enabled.
Click to expand...
 

My Computer

System One

dmex,

Wow. Did you even read my question?? Slowing down boot up time is a lot different than slowing down Vista performance.

Where is there any documentation from anyone that shows it slows down Vista after it has booted?

S-
 

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Intel E6600 @ 3.0 GHz
    Motherboard
    EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NF68-A1)
    Memory
    4GB - CORSAIR XMS2 PC2 6400
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640MB)
    Hard Drives
    2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (320GB)
    1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (500GB)
sidewinder said:
dmex,

Wow. Did you even read my question?? Slowing down boot up time is a lot different than slowing down Vista performance.

Where is there any documentation from anyone that shows it slows down Vista after it has booted?

S-
Click to expand...


I did and why do I have to repeat myself? :sarc:

If you check your Operational Log, do your math and calculate the average time with and without UAC for boottimes and applications than you will have your answer...I dont know what documentation you want because that average will not apply to every VistaPC since each one has different hardware and software configurations but there is a noticeable difference in the results for application and bootime performance.
 

My Computer

System One

dmex said:
I did and why do I have to repeat myself? :sarc:

If you check your Operational Log, do your math and calculate the average time with and without UAC for boottimes and applications than you will have your answer...I dont know what documentation you want because that average will not apply to every VistaPC since each one has different hardware and software configurations but there is a noticeable difference in the results for application and bootime performance.
Click to expand...
dmex,

You keep repeating the same stuff about boot times and that does not answer my question.

All that you have shown is that boot time is slower with UAC disabled. The link you provided discusses boot times only. There is nothing about Vista performance after the boot process is finished and that is what I am asking about.

The Event Viewer log on two different system shows nothing about applications taking longer to start up.

I can find nothing on the Internet about these delays with UAC off either. You would think someone would be talking about them.

S-
 

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Intel E6600 @ 3.0 GHz
    Motherboard
    EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NF68-A1)
    Memory
    4GB - CORSAIR XMS2 PC2 6400
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640MB)
    Hard Drives
    2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (320GB)
    1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (500GB)
dmex,

Look at this document from Microsoft:

http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/c/5/9c5b2167-8017-4bae-9fde-d599bac8184a/Vista_perf.doc

When doing performance testing, Microsoft recommends leaving UAC enabled but set to "Elevate without Prompting".

So that kills the idea that leaving UAC enabled but set to "Elevate without Prompting" will affect performance. I still can't find anything that says turning off UAC causes any performance issues other than a slower boot time (big whoop!). Do you have anything???

S-
 

My Computer

System One

  • CPU
    Intel E6600 @ 3.0 GHz
    Motherboard
    EVGA nForce 680i SLI (NF68-A1)
    Memory
    4GB - CORSAIR XMS2 PC2 6400
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS (640MB)
    Hard Drives
    2 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (320GB)
    1 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (500GB)
sidewinder said:
So that kills the idea that leaving UAC enabled but set to "Elevate without Prompting" will affect performance. I still can't find anything that says turning off UAC causes any performance issues other than a slower boot time (big whoop!). Do you have anything???

S-
Click to expand...

Did you follow Microsoft's example and leave UAC enabled while doing benchmarking? There is a variable difference in program performance depending on IO usage (amount of running processes, drivers and other code) while benchmarking.

Do you know what virtualization actually does to x86 code on x64? It reorders all instruction sets (basically the whole program) and this does cause performance issues on x64 if the application is not coded correctly.

The code im using for a soon-to-be-released utility does have issues with execution time and do vary depending on both UAC and the virtualalized driver being enabled on systems.

If I tried to minimize the number of locks taken out to guard the consistency of data structures accessible from multiple threads it causes the execution time to vary from instant to 10 minutes...the x86 memory model provided a level of safety by guaranteeing that all write operations occurred in order and on time.

This guarantee does not happen with 64-bit because it explicitly requires it before accessing the 64bit instruction altogether and while this is good for end-users...It gets worse (for poorly written applications) when virtualization gets involved and code that reads data without the protections of locks can experience unexpected results caused by the processor reordering instructions (virtualization) and the potential for unexpected code execution results arises.

Now this isnt a problem for end-users since developers refine the code untill its executing timely and properly without variable results but it does cause me headaches trying to code directly for x64 systems with virtualization envolved.

---Facts aside---

If you want me to prove how virtualization makes applications slower go try running a few resource-hungry programs in a virtual machine, thats the only way you will see first hand how virtualization slows performance down without building your own application.

I also dont want to continually argue the point of UAC being disabled makes application performance & execution time longer, I know it does from first hand experience coding applications myself...So Im pulling rank and thread closed :shock:
 

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