This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This server
requires a secure connection". I don't know whether or not you have received
my replies.
Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the "Reply"
button or the "Reply Group" button. I have determined that if I use the
reply button it goes to the nonexistent email listing in your reply, but
then again, I could be wrong. I used the "Reply" button because I read
somewhere, while trying to understand how to use this application, that I
should use the "Reply" button when responding to the sender. I also read
somewhere that if I use the "Reply Group" button my reply will be listed as
a single new entry posted to the discussion group as opposed to being
directed to the poster I am trying to reply to. I don't know. I give up.
I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize. I don't
wish to utilize your valuable free time but I have no choice. I can foresee
myself posting ridiculous questions for the foreseeable future and I realize
my questions will seem laughable and idiotic to the other users of WLM. I
just find it unbelievable that I can find no information related to the
functions and usability of this application. This is causing me nothing but
frustrations and aggravations.
The last thing I want to do is cause other posters grief by my
continuous postings seeking information they already know. I don't care if
everyone thinks I am stupid because it is apparent that I am.
Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for any assistance.
Have a nice day.



C.B.

--
It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
and less fortunate among us.

Always use Reply Group when replying to a post unless to send directly to
the poster.
Other people may have different ideas on how to solve problems.
Also, going away from the newsgroup with replies means that only you will be
helped by the reply.

To avoid spam, most frequently posters to newsgroup mung their email
address.
--
Ronald Sommer

"C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:32BE8277-BD5B-4513-B535-62A469FAB8FB@xxxxxx

> This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
> your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
> notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
> Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This server
> requires a secure connection". I don't know whether or not you have
> received my replies.
> Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the
> "Reply" button or the "Reply Group" button. I have determined that if I
> use the reply button it goes to the nonexistent email listing in your
> reply, but then again, I could be wrong. I used the "Reply" button because
> I read somewhere, while trying to understand how to use this application,
> that I should use the "Reply" button when responding to the sender. I also
> read somewhere that if I use the "Reply Group" button my reply will be
> listed as a single new entry posted to the discussion group as opposed to
> being directed to the poster I am trying to reply to. I don't know. I give
> up.
> I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
> understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize. I don't
> wish to utilize your valuable free time but I have no choice. I can
> foresee myself posting ridiculous questions for the foreseeable future and
> I realize my questions will seem laughable and idiotic to the other users
> of WLM. I just find it unbelievable that I can find no information related
> to the functions and usability of this application. This is causing me
> nothing but frustrations and aggravations.
> The last thing I want to do is cause other posters grief by my
> continuous postings seeking information they already know. I don't care if
> everyone thinks I am stupid because it is apparent that I am.
> Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for any assistance.
> Have a nice day.
>
> C.B.
>
> --
> It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
> and less fortunate among us.

Hi, C.B.

Newsgroups are NOT email. They are more like the BBS (Bulletin Board
Systems) of a couple of decades ago, or Forums (Fora?) of CompuServe fame.
That is, one person posts a message for all the world to see. Anyone who
wants to can post a Reply - and everybody can see that, too. Not like
email, where the message is addressed to one individual and that person is
the only one who can see it.

On WLM's Actions menu there are 3 similar options:
Reply to Sender Ctrl+R
Reply to All Ctrl+Shift+R
Reply to Group Ctrl+G

In almost ALL cases, Reply to Group is the proper action. This posts your
message to the group so that we all can see it.

Reply to Sender sends an email to the person who posted the message to which
you are replying. Reply to All posts your message to the group AND sends an
email to the Sender.

Occasionally I get email from a newsgroup reader who has seen my post in the
group. My "boilerplate" response starts something like this:

Netiquette frowns on email responses to newsgroup posts unless email is
specifically invited or the subject veers from the topic of the newsgroup.
Many people can see and benefit from newsgroup posts; in email, no more that
the two parties involved can benefit. If I give you bad or incomplete
advice in a newsgroup, other readers (many more expert than I) can correct
or complete my comments. If I give you poor advice in email, you're just
stuck with it. In a newsgroup, if I don't know the answer or if I'm on
vacation or otherwise unavailable, many other readers can post a response.
If you send me email and I'm not available - or I don't know the answer or
I'm just too lazy to reply - you may wait a long time for an answer.

But the most important difference is that in a newsgroup, we all learn from
each other. Today you ask a question. You get an answer. Tomorrow,
someone else asks the same question. You know the answer now, so you post
it. That kind of mutual education just can't happen in email. Today we are
the student; tomorrow we are the teacher. ;<) Sort of like the tagline in
your Sig.

So I've customized my WLM Toolbar. The first button on the left is for
Reply Group - and it gets used a lot.

One other factor that you hinted at: Those of us who spend many hours a
week trying to help other users here freely volunteer our time for no pay.
But that does NOT mean that we've volunteered to become the private Tech
Support department for anybody.

Many posters use handles and "mung" (or "munge") their email addresses - as
you have done - to discourage emails and spam. I've always posted my real
name and email address. Yes, I do get some spam (not as much as a couple of
years ago). But I've always believed that I should take full responsibility
for what I say. But that does NOT mean that I am specifically inviting
email regarding my newsgroup posts.

Once you get up the learning curve a little, I think you'll like WLM. ;<)

Oh, one more point: My posts are often more wordy than they might need to
be. A part of the reason is that we never know who may be "reading over our
shoulders" in a newsgroup. If I leave out a point because I think YOU
already know it, that omitted point might be just the one that trips up a
less-experienced "lurker". (In a newsgroup, "lurking" - reading without
posting - is A Good Thing. Many lurkers learn the answers to questions they
hadn't even gotten around to asking.)

See you around the newsgroups! ;<)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@xxxxxx
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)

"C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:32BE8277-BD5B-4513-B535-62A469FAB8FB@xxxxxx

> This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
> your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
> notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
> Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This server
> requires a secure connection". I don't know whether or not you have
> received my replies.
> Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the
> "Reply" button or the "Reply Group" button. I have determined that if I
> use the reply button it goes to the nonexistent email listing in your
> reply, but then again, I could be wrong. I used the "Reply" button because
> I read somewhere, while trying to understand how to use this application,
> that I should use the "Reply" button when responding to the sender. I also
> read somewhere that if I use the "Reply Group" button my reply will be
> listed as a single new entry posted to the discussion group as opposed to
> being directed to the poster I am trying to reply to. I don't know. I give
> up.
> I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
> understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize. I don't
> wish to utilize your valuable free time but I have no choice. I can
> foresee myself posting ridiculous questions for the foreseeable future and
> I realize my questions will seem laughable and idiotic to the other users
> of WLM. I just find it unbelievable that I can find no information related
> to the functions and usability of this application. This is causing me
> nothing but frustrations and aggravations.
> The last thing I want to do is cause other posters grief by my
> continuous postings seeking information they already know. I don't care if
> everyone thinks I am stupid because it is apparent that I am.
> Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for any assistance.
> Have a nice day.
>
> C.B.
>
> --
> It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
> and less fortunate among us.

Thanks for clarification and to CB for asking question. I was never sure of
what the difference was between reply and reply to group.

bj


"R. C. White" <rc@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:50AE335F-1F29-414F-B0B4-12B6781530AF@xxxxxx

> Hi, C.B.
>
> Newsgroups are NOT email. They are more like the BBS (Bulletin Board
> Systems) of a couple of decades ago, or Forums (Fora?) of CompuServe fame.
> That is, one person posts a message for all the world to see. Anyone who
> wants to can post a Reply - and everybody can see that, too. Not like
> email, where the message is addressed to one individual and that person is
> the only one who can see it.
>
> On WLM's Actions menu there are 3 similar options:
> Reply to Sender Ctrl+R
> Reply to All Ctrl+Shift+R
> Reply to Group Ctrl+G
>
> In almost ALL cases, Reply to Group is the proper action. This posts your
> message to the group so that we all can see it.
>
> Reply to Sender sends an email to the person who posted the message to
> which you are replying. Reply to All posts your message to the group AND
> sends an email to the Sender.
>
> Occasionally I get email from a newsgroup reader who has seen my post in
> the group. My "boilerplate" response starts something like this:
>
> Netiquette frowns on email responses to newsgroup posts unless email is
> specifically invited or the subject veers from the topic of the newsgroup.
> Many people can see and benefit from newsgroup posts; in email, no more
> that the two parties involved can benefit. If I give you bad or
> incomplete advice in a newsgroup, other readers (many more expert than I)
> can correct or complete my comments. If I give you poor advice in email,
> you're just stuck with it. In a newsgroup, if I don't know the answer or
> if I'm on vacation or otherwise unavailable, many other readers can post a
> response. If you send me email and I'm not available - or I don't know the
> answer or I'm just too lazy to reply - you may wait a long time for an
> answer.
>
> But the most important difference is that in a newsgroup, we all learn
> from each other. Today you ask a question. You get an answer. Tomorrow,
> someone else asks the same question. You know the answer now, so you post
> it. That kind of mutual education just can't happen in email. Today we
> are the student; tomorrow we are the teacher. ;<) Sort of like the
> tagline in your Sig.
>
> So I've customized my WLM Toolbar. The first button on the left is for
> Reply Group - and it gets used a lot.
>
> One other factor that you hinted at: Those of us who spend many hours a
> week trying to help other users here freely volunteer our time for no pay.
> But that does NOT mean that we've volunteered to become the private Tech
> Support department for anybody.
>
> Many posters use handles and "mung" (or "munge") their email addresses -
> as you have done - to discourage emails and spam. I've always posted my
> real name and email address. Yes, I do get some spam (not as much as a
> couple of years ago). But I've always believed that I should take full
> responsibility for what I say. But that does NOT mean that I am
> specifically inviting email regarding my newsgroup posts.
>
> Once you get up the learning curve a little, I think you'll like WLM. ;<)
>
> Oh, one more point: My posts are often more wordy than they might need to
> be. A part of the reason is that we never know who may be "reading over
> our shoulders" in a newsgroup. If I leave out a point because I think YOU
> already know it, that omitted point might be just the one that trips up a
> less-experienced "lurker". (In a newsgroup, "lurking" - reading without
> posting - is A Good Thing. Many lurkers learn the answers to questions
> they hadn't even gotten around to asking.)
>
> See you around the newsgroups! ;<)
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> rc@xxxxxx
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)
>
> "C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:32BE8277-BD5B-4513-B535-62A469FAB8FB@xxxxxx

>> This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
>> your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
>> notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
>> Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This
>> server requires a secure connection". I don't know whether or not you
>> have received my replies.
>> Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the
>> "Reply" button or the "Reply Group" button. I have determined that if I
>> use the reply button it goes to the nonexistent email listing in your
>> reply, but then again, I could be wrong. I used the "Reply" button
>> because I read somewhere, while trying to understand how to use this
>> application, that I should use the "Reply" button when responding to the
>> sender. I also read somewhere that if I use the "Reply Group" button my
>> reply will be listed as a single new entry posted to the discussion group
>> as opposed to being directed to the poster I am trying to reply to. I
>> don't know. I give up.
>> I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
>> understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize. I don't
>> wish to utilize your valuable free time but I have no choice. I can
>> foresee myself posting ridiculous questions for the foreseeable future
>> and I realize my questions will seem laughable and idiotic to the other
>> users of WLM. I just find it unbelievable that I can find no information
>> related to the functions and usability of this application. This is
>> causing me nothing but frustrations and aggravations.
>> The last thing I want to do is cause other posters grief by my
>> continuous postings seeking information they already know. I don't care
>> if everyone thinks I am stupid because it is apparent that I am.
>> Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for any assistance.
>> Have a nice day.
>>
>> C.B.
>>
>> --
>> It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
>> and less fortunate among us.

>

Hi CB, and as you have probably already read, clicking on Reply failed
because there are too many e-mail harvesters out there just waiting to get
our real e-mail addresses, which is why we change it to something unusable.
For all intents and purposes, Reply Group is the best way to go because that
keeps all the questions and answers together so that if anyone wants to go
back and refer to them, they are all in chronological order. And please
don't consider any of your questions as silly or stupid. None of us were
born knowing everything about everything and the only stupid questions are
the one that are never asked.

So, continue asking your questions and we will do all we can to answer them
for you.
--
©LarryEº

"Beejaysoo" <beejaysoo@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ef1$q7RaIHA.4140@xxxxxx
Thanks for clarification and to CB for asking question. I was never sure of
what the difference was between reply and reply to group.

bj


"R. C. White" <rc@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:50AE335F-1F29-414F-B0B4-12B6781530AF@xxxxxx

> Hi, C.B.
>
> Newsgroups are NOT email. They are more like the BBS (Bulletin Board
> Systems) of a couple of decades ago, or Forums (Fora?) of CompuServe fame.
> That is, one person posts a message for all the world to see. Anyone who
> wants to can post a Reply - and everybody can see that, too. Not like
> email, where the message is addressed to one individual and that person is
> the only one who can see it.
>
> On WLM's Actions menu there are 3 similar options:
> Reply to Sender Ctrl+R
> Reply to All Ctrl+Shift+R
> Reply to Group Ctrl+G
>
> In almost ALL cases, Reply to Group is the proper action. This posts your
> message to the group so that we all can see it.
>
> Reply to Sender sends an email to the person who posted the message to
> which you are replying. Reply to All posts your message to the group AND
> sends an email to the Sender.
>
> Occasionally I get email from a newsgroup reader who has seen my post in
> the group. My "boilerplate" response starts something like this:
>
> Netiquette frowns on email responses to newsgroup posts unless email is
> specifically invited or the subject veers from the topic of the newsgroup.
> Many people can see and benefit from newsgroup posts; in email, no more
> that the two parties involved can benefit. If I give you bad or
> incomplete advice in a newsgroup, other readers (many more expert than I)
> can correct or complete my comments. If I give you poor advice in email,
> you're just stuck with it. In a newsgroup, if I don't know the answer or
> if I'm on vacation or otherwise unavailable, many other readers can post a
> response. If you send me email and I'm not available - or I don't know the
> answer or I'm just too lazy to reply - you may wait a long time for an
> answer.
>
> But the most important difference is that in a newsgroup, we all learn
> from each other. Today you ask a question. You get an answer. Tomorrow,
> someone else asks the same question. You know the answer now, so you post
> it. That kind of mutual education just can't happen in email. Today we
> are the student; tomorrow we are the teacher. ;<) Sort of like the
> tagline in your Sig.
>
> So I've customized my WLM Toolbar. The first button on the left is for
> Reply Group - and it gets used a lot.
>
> One other factor that you hinted at: Those of us who spend many hours a
> week trying to help other users here freely volunteer our time for no pay.
> But that does NOT mean that we've volunteered to become the private Tech
> Support department for anybody.
>
> Many posters use handles and "mung" (or "munge") their email addresses -
> as you have done - to discourage emails and spam. I've always posted my
> real name and email address. Yes, I do get some spam (not as much as a
> couple of years ago). But I've always believed that I should take full
> responsibility for what I say. But that does NOT mean that I am
> specifically inviting email regarding my newsgroup posts.
>
> Once you get up the learning curve a little, I think you'll like WLM. ;<)
>
> Oh, one more point: My posts are often more wordy than they might need to
> be. A part of the reason is that we never know who may be "reading over
> our shoulders" in a newsgroup. If I leave out a point because I think YOU
> already know it, that omitted point might be just the one that trips up a
> less-experienced "lurker". (In a newsgroup, "lurking" - reading without
> posting - is A Good Thing. Many lurkers learn the answers to questions
> they hadn't even gotten around to asking.)
>
> See you around the newsgroups! ;<)
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> rc@xxxxxx
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)
>
> "C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:32BE8277-BD5B-4513-B535-62A469FAB8FB@xxxxxx

>> This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
>> your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
>> notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
>> Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This
>> server requires a secure connection". I don't know whether or not you
>> have received my replies.
>> Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the
>> "Reply" button or the "Reply Group" button. I have determined that if I
>> use the reply button it goes to the nonexistent email listing in your
>> reply, but then again, I could be wrong. I used the "Reply" button
>> because I read somewhere, while trying to understand how to use this
>> application, that I should use the "Reply" button when responding to the
>> sender. I also read somewhere that if I use the "Reply Group" button my
>> reply will be listed as a single new entry posted to the discussion group
>> as opposed to being directed to the poster I am trying to reply to. I
>> don't know. I give up.
>> I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
>> understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize. I don't
>> wish to utilize your valuable free time but I have no choice. I can
>> foresee myself posting ridiculous questions for the foreseeable future
>> and I realize my questions will seem laughable and idiotic to the other
>> users of WLM. I just find it unbelievable that I can find no information
>> related to the functions and usability of this application. This is
>> causing me nothing but frustrations and aggravations.
>> The last thing I want to do is cause other posters grief by my
>> continuous postings seeking information they already know. I don't care
>> if everyone thinks I am stupid because it is apparent that I am.
>> Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for any assistance.
>> Have a nice day.
>>
>> C.B.
>>
>> --
>> It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
>> and less fortunate among us.

>

Mr. White,

Thank you for the informative reply. Yes, I know that newsgroups are
not email, but this is the first time I have used a newsreader and Microsoft
chose to not provide any information as to how to configure and use WLM,
including the newsreader. That is what aggravates and frustrates me the
most. I think it is a good email client so I have transferred my four other
accounts into it. It makes things so much easier than logging into four
different accounts. It's not that I am overanxious or impatient about
learning how to use the newsreader, it's just that I can't find any
tutorials or articles relating to it.
When I send this reply I am typing now, and I click on "Reply Group",
will it go to the discussion group as a single entry comment or question, or
will it go into my original thread? If my reply does not go to my original
thread, how do I know you have received my reply? Is my reply connected in
some way to your reply to my questions so that you are alerted I replied to
you or do you have to actively seek it? As you can see, I just don't know
these things because there is no instruction for using this newsreader.
The previous replies I made to Larry and Winston were sent to their
email addresses by accident, only because I did not know that using the
"Reply" button sent it to the sender instead of the newsgroup. I sincerely
apologize for the mistake. It will not happen again. I will send a message
to a respondent's email address only if I am explicitly directed to do so. I
am a firm believer in privacy. I would never consider sending an unsolicited
email to anyone.
The reason I munged my email address is because it was suggested by an
MVP that I do so and I also read in an article on newsgroups that I should
do it. It would be simple for someone to determine what my actual email
address is but if you think I should "unmunge" it I will do so. I don't get
overly concerned about spam. For me, spam is only a mouse click or two away.
I don't even bother with antispam software.
I have one more subject I need guidance on. Should I top post or bottom
post, or should I post within the reply in order to comment on a particular
paragraph? When I post a reply, should I include the whole text of the
person I am replying to or should I shorten it? I have left your text alone.
I feel really bad about asking all these questions. If I could just
find some material on using the WLM newsreader my questions would not be
necessary and I wouldn't have to waste your time and the time of others. It
agitates me when someone seeks advice when the answer is only a search bar
away but in my case the search bar, and Microsoft's websites, offer no
answers. I know that my questions aggravate many people who already possess
the knowledge I am seeking.

Again, thank you for taking the time to provide answers to my queries.
Have a nice day.

C.B.
-------
It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
and less fortunate among us.


"R. C. White" <rc@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:50AE335F-1F29-414F-B0B4-12B6781530AF@xxxxxx

> Hi, C.B.
>
> Newsgroups are NOT email. They are more like the BBS (Bulletin Board
> Systems) of a couple of decades ago, or Forums (Fora?) of CompuServe fame.
> That is, one person posts a message for all the world to see. Anyone who
> wants to can post a Reply - and everybody can see that, too. Not like
> email, where the message is addressed to one individual and that person is
> the only one who can see it.
>
> On WLM's Actions menu there are 3 similar options:
> Reply to Sender Ctrl+R
> Reply to All Ctrl+Shift+R
> Reply to Group Ctrl+G
>
> In almost ALL cases, Reply to Group is the proper action. This posts your
> message to the group so that we all can see it.
>
> Reply to Sender sends an email to the person who posted the message to
> which you are replying. Reply to All posts your message to the group AND
> sends an email to the Sender.
>
> Occasionally I get email from a newsgroup reader who has seen my post in
> the group. My "boilerplate" response starts something like this:
>
> Netiquette frowns on email responses to newsgroup posts unless email is
> specifically invited or the subject veers from the topic of the newsgroup.
> Many people can see and benefit from newsgroup posts; in email, no more
> that the two parties involved can benefit. If I give you bad or
> incomplete advice in a newsgroup, other readers (many more expert than I)
> can correct or complete my comments. If I give you poor advice in email,
> you're just stuck with it. In a newsgroup, if I don't know the answer or
> if I'm on vacation or otherwise unavailable, many other readers can post a
> response. If you send me email and I'm not available - or I don't know the
> answer or I'm just too lazy to reply - you may wait a long time for an
> answer.
>
> But the most important difference is that in a newsgroup, we all learn
> from each other. Today you ask a question. You get an answer. Tomorrow,
> someone else asks the same question. You know the answer now, so you post
> it. That kind of mutual education just can't happen in email. Today we
> are the student; tomorrow we are the teacher. ;<) Sort of like the
> tagline in your Sig.
>
> So I've customized my WLM Toolbar. The first button on the left is for
> Reply Group - and it gets used a lot.
>
> One other factor that you hinted at: Those of us who spend many hours a
> week trying to help other users here freely volunteer our time for no pay.
> But that does NOT mean that we've volunteered to become the private Tech
> Support department for anybody.
>
> Many posters use handles and "mung" (or "munge") their email addresses -
> as you have done - to discourage emails and spam. I've always posted my
> real name and email address. Yes, I do get some spam (not as much as a
> couple of years ago). But I've always believed that I should take full
> responsibility for what I say. But that does NOT mean that I am
> specifically inviting email regarding my newsgroup posts.
>
> Once you get up the learning curve a little, I think you'll like WLM. ;<)
>
> Oh, one more point: My posts are often more wordy than they might need to
> be. A part of the reason is that we never know who may be "reading over
> our shoulders" in a newsgroup. If I leave out a point because I think YOU
> already know it, that omitted point might be just the one that trips up a
> less-experienced "lurker". (In a newsgroup, "lurking" - reading without
> posting - is A Good Thing. Many lurkers learn the answers to questions
> they hadn't even gotten around to asking.)
>
> See you around the newsgroups! ;<)
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> rc@xxxxxx
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)
>
> "C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:32BE8277-BD5B-4513-B535-62A469FAB8FB@xxxxxx

>> This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
>> your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
>> notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
>> Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This
>> server requires a secure connection". I don't know whether or not you
>> have received my replies.
>> Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the
>> "Reply" button or the "Reply Group" button. I have determined that if I
>> use the reply button it goes to the nonexistent email listing in your
>> reply, but then again, I could be wrong. I used the "Reply" button
>> because I read somewhere, while trying to understand how to use this
>> application, that I should use the "Reply" button when responding to the
>> sender. I also read somewhere that if I use the "Reply Group" button my
>> reply will be listed as a single new entry posted to the discussion group
>> as opposed to being directed to the poster I am trying to reply to. I
>> don't know. I give up.
>> I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
>> understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize. I don't
>> wish to utilize your valuable free time but I have no choice. I can
>> foresee myself posting ridiculous questions for the foreseeable future
>> and I realize my questions will seem laughable and idiotic to the other
>> users of WLM. I just find it unbelievable that I can find no information
>> related to the functions and usability of this application. This is
>> causing me nothing but frustrations and aggravations.
>> The last thing I want to do is cause other posters grief by my
>> continuous postings seeking information they already know. I don't care
>> if everyone thinks I am stupid because it is apparent that I am.
>> Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for any assistance.
>> Have a nice day.
>>
>> C.B.
>>
>> --
>> It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
>> and less fortunate among us.

>

Email received. Rest assured nothing is wrong with WLM or your accounts SMTP
capability.

I am not aware of any unique specific tutorials tailored to using WLM as
client(for news/mail). Many find that after a few hours of use, functions
and features become wrote and deduction falls in to place for the balance.
Anything else can usually be answered in this forum.

Asking in this forum vs. mail also benefits anyone reading whether it be a
poster or just someone reading for the knowledge or entertainment.

Thanks for expressing issues of concern.

WLM does have a feedback option if you care to send a note to Msft.
WLM\Help\Send Feedback (web)


--
...winston
ms-mvp windows live mail


"C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:7D095937-8E5D-4DBB-ADED-10D0D2A20C9D@xxxxxx
Mr. White,

Thank you for the informative reply. Yes, I know that newsgroups are
not email, but this is the first time I have used a newsreader and Microsoft
chose to not provide any information as to how to configure and use WLM,
including the newsreader. That is what aggravates and frustrates me the
most. I think it is a good email client so I have transferred my four other
accounts into it. It makes things so much easier than logging into four
different accounts. It's not that I am overanxious or impatient about
learning how to use the newsreader, it's just that I can't find any
tutorials or articles relating to it.
When I send this reply I am typing now, and I click on "Reply Group",
will it go to the discussion group as a single entry comment or question, or
will it go into my original thread? If my reply does not go to my original
thread, how do I know you have received my reply? Is my reply connected in
some way to your reply to my questions so that you are alerted I replied to
you or do you have to actively seek it? As you can see, I just don't know
these things because there is no instruction for using this newsreader.
The previous replies I made to Larry and Winston were sent to their
email addresses by accident, only because I did not know that using the
"Reply" button sent it to the sender instead of the newsgroup. I sincerely
apologize for the mistake. It will not happen again. I will send a message
to a respondent's email address only if I am explicitly directed to do so. I
am a firm believer in privacy. I would never consider sending an unsolicited
email to anyone.
The reason I munged my email address is because it was suggested by an
MVP that I do so and I also read in an article on newsgroups that I should
do it. It would be simple for someone to determine what my actual email
address is but if you think I should "unmunge" it I will do so. I don't get
overly concerned about spam. For me, spam is only a mouse click or two away.
I don't even bother with antispam software.
I have one more subject I need guidance on. Should I top post or bottom
post, or should I post within the reply in order to comment on a particular
paragraph? When I post a reply, should I include the whole text of the
person I am replying to or should I shorten it? I have left your text alone.
I feel really bad about asking all these questions. If I could just
find some material on using the WLM newsreader my questions would not be
necessary and I wouldn't have to waste your time and the time of others. It
agitates me when someone seeks advice when the answer is only a search bar
away but in my case the search bar, and Microsoft's websites, offer no
answers. I know that my questions aggravate many people who already possess
the knowledge I am seeking.

Again, thank you for taking the time to provide answers to my queries.
Have a nice day.

C.B.
-------
It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
and less fortunate among us.


"R. C. White" <rc@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:50AE335F-1F29-414F-B0B4-12B6781530AF@xxxxxx

> Hi, C.B.
>
> Newsgroups are NOT email. They are more like the BBS (Bulletin Board
> Systems) of a couple of decades ago, or Forums (Fora?) of CompuServe fame.
> That is, one person posts a message for all the world to see. Anyone who
> wants to can post a Reply - and everybody can see that, too. Not like
> email, where the message is addressed to one individual and that person is
> the only one who can see it.
>
> On WLM's Actions menu there are 3 similar options:
> Reply to Sender Ctrl+R
> Reply to All Ctrl+Shift+R
> Reply to Group Ctrl+G
>
> In almost ALL cases, Reply to Group is the proper action. This posts your
> message to the group so that we all can see it.
>
> Reply to Sender sends an email to the person who posted the message to
> which you are replying. Reply to All posts your message to the group AND
> sends an email to the Sender.
>
> Occasionally I get email from a newsgroup reader who has seen my post in
> the group. My "boilerplate" response starts something like this:
>
> Netiquette frowns on email responses to newsgroup posts unless email is
> specifically invited or the subject veers from the topic of the newsgroup.
> Many people can see and benefit from newsgroup posts; in email, no more
> that the two parties involved can benefit. If I give you bad or
> incomplete advice in a newsgroup, other readers (many more expert than I)
> can correct or complete my comments. If I give you poor advice in email,
> you're just stuck with it. In a newsgroup, if I don't know the answer or
> if I'm on vacation or otherwise unavailable, many other readers can post a
> response. If you send me email and I'm not available - or I don't know the
> answer or I'm just too lazy to reply - you may wait a long time for an
> answer.
>
> But the most important difference is that in a newsgroup, we all learn
> from each other. Today you ask a question. You get an answer. Tomorrow,
> someone else asks the same question. You know the answer now, so you post
> it. That kind of mutual education just can't happen in email. Today we
> are the student; tomorrow we are the teacher. ;<) Sort of like the
> tagline in your Sig.
>
> So I've customized my WLM Toolbar. The first button on the left is for
> Reply Group - and it gets used a lot.
>
> One other factor that you hinted at: Those of us who spend many hours a
> week trying to help other users here freely volunteer our time for no pay.
> But that does NOT mean that we've volunteered to become the private Tech
> Support department for anybody.
>
> Many posters use handles and "mung" (or "munge") their email addresses -
> as you have done - to discourage emails and spam. I've always posted my
> real name and email address. Yes, I do get some spam (not as much as a
> couple of years ago). But I've always believed that I should take full
> responsibility for what I say. But that does NOT mean that I am
> specifically inviting email regarding my newsgroup posts.
>
> Once you get up the learning curve a little, I think you'll like WLM. ;<)
>
> Oh, one more point: My posts are often more wordy than they might need to
> be. A part of the reason is that we never know who may be "reading over
> our shoulders" in a newsgroup. If I leave out a point because I think YOU
> already know it, that omitted point might be just the one that trips up a
> less-experienced "lurker". (In a newsgroup, "lurking" - reading without
> posting - is A Good Thing. Many lurkers learn the answers to questions
> they hadn't even gotten around to asking.)
>
> See you around the newsgroups! ;<)
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> rc@xxxxxx
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)
>
> "C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:32BE8277-BD5B-4513-B535-62A469FAB8FB@xxxxxx

>> This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
>> your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
>> notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
>> Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This
>> server requires a secure connection". I don't know whether or not you
>> have received my replies.
>> Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the
>> "Reply" button or the "Reply Group" button. I have determined that if I
>> use the reply button it goes to the nonexistent email listing in your
>> reply, but then again, I could be wrong. I used the "Reply" button
>> because I read somewhere, while trying to understand how to use this
>> application, that I should use the "Reply" button when responding to the
>> sender. I also read somewhere that if I use the "Reply Group" button my
>> reply will be listed as a single new entry posted to the discussion group
>> as opposed to being directed to the poster I am trying to reply to. I
>> don't know. I give up.
>> I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
>> understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize. I don't
>> wish to utilize your valuable free time but I have no choice. I can
>> foresee myself posting ridiculous questions for the foreseeable future
>> and I realize my questions will seem laughable and idiotic to the other
>> users of WLM. I just find it unbelievable that I can find no information
>> related to the functions and usability of this application. This is
>> causing me nothing but frustrations and aggravations.
>> The last thing I want to do is cause other posters grief by my
>> continuous postings seeking information they already know. I don't care
>> if everyone thinks I am stupid because it is apparent that I am.
>> Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for any assistance.
>> Have a nice day.
>>
>> C.B.
>>
>> --
>> It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
>> and less fortunate among us.

>

Well, I guess we'll all have to be as wordy as Mr. White, so we can get
answers addressed to us too. LOL
--
©LarryEº

"...winston" <winstonmvp@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OQl1TIVaIHA.536@xxxxxx
Email received. Rest assured nothing is wrong with WLM or your accounts SMTP
capability.

I am not aware of any unique specific tutorials tailored to using WLM as
client(for news/mail). Many find that after a few hours of use, functions
and features become wrote and deduction falls in to place for the balance.
Anything else can usually be answered in this forum.

Asking in this forum vs. mail also benefits anyone reading whether it be a
poster or just someone reading for the knowledge or entertainment.

Thanks for expressing issues of concern.

WLM does have a feedback option if you care to send a note to Msft.
WLM\Help\Send Feedback (web)


--
...winston
ms-mvp windows live mail


"C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:7D095937-8E5D-4DBB-ADED-10D0D2A20C9D@xxxxxx
Mr. White,

Thank you for the informative reply. Yes, I know that newsgroups are
not email, but this is the first time I have used a newsreader and Microsoft
chose to not provide any information as to how to configure and use WLM,
including the newsreader. That is what aggravates and frustrates me the
most. I think it is a good email client so I have transferred my four other
accounts into it. It makes things so much easier than logging into four
different accounts. It's not that I am overanxious or impatient about
learning how to use the newsreader, it's just that I can't find any
tutorials or articles relating to it.
When I send this reply I am typing now, and I click on "Reply Group",
will it go to the discussion group as a single entry comment or question, or
will it go into my original thread? If my reply does not go to my original
thread, how do I know you have received my reply? Is my reply connected in
some way to your reply to my questions so that you are alerted I replied to
you or do you have to actively seek it? As you can see, I just don't know
these things because there is no instruction for using this newsreader.
The previous replies I made to Larry and Winston were sent to their
email addresses by accident, only because I did not know that using the
"Reply" button sent it to the sender instead of the newsgroup. I sincerely
apologize for the mistake. It will not happen again. I will send a message
to a respondent's email address only if I am explicitly directed to do so. I
am a firm believer in privacy. I would never consider sending an unsolicited
email to anyone.
The reason I munged my email address is because it was suggested by an
MVP that I do so and I also read in an article on newsgroups that I should
do it. It would be simple for someone to determine what my actual email
address is but if you think I should "unmunge" it I will do so. I don't get
overly concerned about spam. For me, spam is only a mouse click or two away.
I don't even bother with antispam software.
I have one more subject I need guidance on. Should I top post or bottom
post, or should I post within the reply in order to comment on a particular
paragraph? When I post a reply, should I include the whole text of the
person I am replying to or should I shorten it? I have left your text alone.
I feel really bad about asking all these questions. If I could just
find some material on using the WLM newsreader my questions would not be
necessary and I wouldn't have to waste your time and the time of others. It
agitates me when someone seeks advice when the answer is only a search bar
away but in my case the search bar, and Microsoft's websites, offer no
answers. I know that my questions aggravate many people who already possess
the knowledge I am seeking.

Again, thank you for taking the time to provide answers to my queries.
Have a nice day.

C.B.
-------
It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
and less fortunate among us.


"R. C. White" <rc@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:50AE335F-1F29-414F-B0B4-12B6781530AF@xxxxxx

> Hi, C.B.
>
> Newsgroups are NOT email. They are more like the BBS (Bulletin Board
> Systems) of a couple of decades ago, or Forums (Fora?) of CompuServe fame.
> That is, one person posts a message for all the world to see. Anyone who
> wants to can post a Reply - and everybody can see that, too. Not like
> email, where the message is addressed to one individual and that person is
> the only one who can see it.
>
> On WLM's Actions menu there are 3 similar options:
> Reply to Sender Ctrl+R
> Reply to All Ctrl+Shift+R
> Reply to Group Ctrl+G
>
> In almost ALL cases, Reply to Group is the proper action. This posts your
> message to the group so that we all can see it.
>
> Reply to Sender sends an email to the person who posted the message to
> which you are replying. Reply to All posts your message to the group AND
> sends an email to the Sender.
>
> Occasionally I get email from a newsgroup reader who has seen my post in
> the group. My "boilerplate" response starts something like this:
>
> Netiquette frowns on email responses to newsgroup posts unless email is
> specifically invited or the subject veers from the topic of the newsgroup.
> Many people can see and benefit from newsgroup posts; in email, no more
> that the two parties involved can benefit. If I give you bad or
> incomplete advice in a newsgroup, other readers (many more expert than I)
> can correct or complete my comments. If I give you poor advice in email,
> you're just stuck with it. In a newsgroup, if I don't know the answer or
> if I'm on vacation or otherwise unavailable, many other readers can post a
> response. If you send me email and I'm not available - or I don't know the
> answer or I'm just too lazy to reply - you may wait a long time for an
> answer.
>
> But the most important difference is that in a newsgroup, we all learn
> from each other. Today you ask a question. You get an answer. Tomorrow,
> someone else asks the same question. You know the answer now, so you post
> it. That kind of mutual education just can't happen in email. Today we
> are the student; tomorrow we are the teacher. ;<) Sort of like the
> tagline in your Sig.
>
> So I've customized my WLM Toolbar. The first button on the left is for
> Reply Group - and it gets used a lot.
>
> One other factor that you hinted at: Those of us who spend many hours a
> week trying to help other users here freely volunteer our time for no pay.
> But that does NOT mean that we've volunteered to become the private Tech
> Support department for anybody.
>
> Many posters use handles and "mung" (or "munge") their email addresses -
> as you have done - to discourage emails and spam. I've always posted my
> real name and email address. Yes, I do get some spam (not as much as a
> couple of years ago). But I've always believed that I should take full
> responsibility for what I say. But that does NOT mean that I am
> specifically inviting email regarding my newsgroup posts.
>
> Once you get up the learning curve a little, I think you'll like WLM. ;<)
>
> Oh, one more point: My posts are often more wordy than they might need to
> be. A part of the reason is that we never know who may be "reading over
> our shoulders" in a newsgroup. If I leave out a point because I think YOU
> already know it, that omitted point might be just the one that trips up a
> less-experienced "lurker". (In a newsgroup, "lurking" - reading without
> posting - is A Good Thing. Many lurkers learn the answers to questions
> they hadn't even gotten around to asking.)
>
> See you around the newsgroups! ;<)
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
> rc@xxxxxx
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> (Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)
>
> "C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:32BE8277-BD5B-4513-B535-62A469FAB8FB@xxxxxx

>> This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
>> your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
>> notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
>> Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This
>> server requires a secure connection". I don't know whether or not you
>> have received my replies.
>> Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the
>> "Reply" button or the "Reply Group" button. I have determined that if I
>> use the reply button it goes to the nonexistent email listing in your
>> reply, but then again, I could be wrong. I used the "Reply" button
>> because I read somewhere, while trying to understand how to use this
>> application, that I should use the "Reply" button when responding to the
>> sender. I also read somewhere that if I use the "Reply Group" button my
>> reply will be listed as a single new entry posted to the discussion group
>> as opposed to being directed to the poster I am trying to reply to. I
>> don't know. I give up.
>> I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
>> understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize. I don't
>> wish to utilize your valuable free time but I have no choice. I can
>> foresee myself posting ridiculous questions for the foreseeable future
>> and I realize my questions will seem laughable and idiotic to the other
>> users of WLM. I just find it unbelievable that I can find no information
>> related to the functions and usability of this application. This is
>> causing me nothing but frustrations and aggravations.
>> The last thing I want to do is cause other posters grief by my
>> continuous postings seeking information they already know. I don't care
>> if everyone thinks I am stupid because it is apparent that I am.
>> Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for any assistance.
>> Have a nice day.
>>
>> C.B.
>>
>> --
>> It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the underprivileged
>> and less fortunate among us.

>

Hi, C.B.

I'm not familiar with any tutorials on how to use a newsreader. I've been
using them or their predecessors since about 1979 and I don't recall how I
learned, except by trial and error. And each time a new one arrived, I had
to adapt what I had learned before - by trial and error again. But much of
it is intuitive and simply learning by doing is a quite effective way to
learn most of it. Then you can fill in the gaps by asking here. Most of
the tricks and techniques that I first learned in OE4 a decade ago still
work in OE6, WM and WLM.

You're already over the hump. You are posting; we can read what you've
posted; we can Reply to the Group; you can read our replies and respond
again. This creates a "conversation", which we old-timers still usually
call a "thread". Just keep learning by doing and you will be very comfy
with newsgroups in short order.

Is it better to top-post or bottom-post or add comments inline? The answer
is: It depends. I use all three methods, as appropriate.

When I first visit a newsgroup, and hit the middle of an existing thread, it
helps if the posters have bottom-posted, quoting all of the prior thread to
that point; then I can just read the latest post, top to bottom, and have
the full context. But that's not how I read posts most of the time.
Usually - as in this thread - I've already read most of the prior messages
(maybe even contributed some of them) and only need to see the latest
response. In those cases, I do not want to have to scroll down 60 lines
just to read the "Me Too" at the bottom. :>( I would much prefer that all
the new responses be top-posted; then I can read them all in quick sequence
by simply clicking one button on my mouse. (I've programmed one button to
be Ctrl+U, Next Unread Message - see Next under the View menu.) Whether
top-posted or bottom-posted, though, I always quote the prior thread, but
only after trimming extraneous stuff, such as most of most Sigs. (In WLM,
click Tools | Options | Send and be sure there is a check in front of
Include message in reply.)

For some messages or threads, I need to respond to specific comments or
questions. Often I will copy'n'paste from the quoted context to focus on
one point. Other times, I will add my comments "inline". That is, I will
insert my comments between the quoted paragraphs; this works well when the
prior poster made several points and I want to respond to them in sequence.

One further comment on this question: It starts a lot of "religious wars"
because many newsgroup regulars have very strongly held preferences for one
method or the other. I try to stay out of those because, as I said, "it
depends".

Just like joining any group of new friends: watch and listen to what the
others are doing and saying. You'll pick up the cues and feel right at home
in no time at all.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@xxxxxx
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)

"C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:7D095937-8E5D-4DBB-ADED-10D0D2A20C9D@xxxxxx

> Mr. White,
>
> Thank you for the informative reply. Yes, I know that newsgroups are
> not email, but this is the first time I have used a newsreader and
> Microsoft chose to not provide any information as to how to configure and
> use WLM, including the newsreader. That is what aggravates and frustrates
> me the most. I think it is a good email client so I have transferred my
> four other accounts into it. It makes things so much easier than logging
> into four different accounts. It's not that I am overanxious or impatient
> about learning how to use the newsreader, it's just that I can't find any
> tutorials or articles relating to it.
> When I send this reply I am typing now, and I click on "Reply Group",
> will it go to the discussion group as a single entry comment or question,
> or will it go into my original thread? If my reply does not go to my
> original thread, how do I know you have received my reply? Is my reply
> connected in some way to your reply to my questions so that you are
> alerted I replied to you or do you have to actively seek it? As you can
> see, I just don't know these things because there is no instruction for
> using this newsreader.
> The previous replies I made to Larry and Winston were sent to their
> email addresses by accident, only because I did not know that using the
> "Reply" button sent it to the sender instead of the newsgroup. I sincerely
> apologize for the mistake. It will not happen again. I will send a message
> to a respondent's email address only if I am explicitly directed to do so.
> I am a firm believer in privacy. I would never consider sending an
> unsolicited email to anyone.
> The reason I munged my email address is because it was suggested by an
> MVP that I do so and I also read in an article on newsgroups that I should
> do it. It would be simple for someone to determine what my actual email
> address is but if you think I should "unmunge" it I will do so. I don't
> get overly concerned about spam. For me, spam is only a mouse click or two
> away. I don't even bother with antispam software.
> I have one more subject I need guidance on. Should I top post or
> bottom post, or should I post within the reply in order to comment on a
> particular paragraph? When I post a reply, should I include the whole text
> of the person I am replying to or should I shorten it? I have left your
> text alone.
> I feel really bad about asking all these questions. If I could just
> find some material on using the WLM newsreader my questions would not be
> necessary and I wouldn't have to waste your time and the time of others.
> It agitates me when someone seeks advice when the answer is only a search
> bar away but in my case the search bar, and Microsoft's websites, offer no
> answers. I know that my questions aggravate many people who already
> possess the knowledge I am seeking.
>
> Again, thank you for taking the time to provide answers to my queries.
> Have a nice day.
>
> C.B.
>
>
> "R. C. White" <rc@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:50AE335F-1F29-414F-B0B4-12B6781530AF@xxxxxx

>> Hi, C.B.
>>
>> Newsgroups are NOT email. They are more like the BBS (Bulletin Board
>> Systems) of a couple of decades ago, or Forums (Fora?) of CompuServe
>> fame. That is, one person posts a message for all the world to see.
>> Anyone who wants to can post a Reply - and everybody can see that, too.
>> Not like email, where the message is addressed to one individual and that
>> person is the only one who can see it.
>>
>> On WLM's Actions menu there are 3 similar options:
>> Reply to Sender Ctrl+R
>> Reply to All Ctrl+Shift+R
>> Reply to Group Ctrl+G
>>
>> In almost ALL cases, Reply to Group is the proper action. This posts
>> your message to the group so that we all can see it.
>>
>> Reply to Sender sends an email to the person who posted the message to
>> which you are replying. Reply to All posts your message to the group AND
>> sends an email to the Sender.
>>
>> Occasionally I get email from a newsgroup reader who has seen my post in
>> the group. My "boilerplate" response starts something like this:
>>
>> Netiquette frowns on email responses to newsgroup posts unless email is
>> specifically invited or the subject veers from the topic of the
>> newsgroup. Many people can see and benefit from newsgroup posts; in
>> email, no more that the two parties involved can benefit. If I give you
>> bad or incomplete advice in a newsgroup, other readers (many more expert
>> than I) can correct or complete my comments. If I give you poor advice
>> in email, you're just stuck with it. In a newsgroup, if I don't know the
>> answer or if I'm on vacation or otherwise unavailable, many other readers
>> can post a response. If you send me email and I'm not available - or I
>> don't know the answer or I'm just too lazy to reply - you may wait a long
>> time for an answer.
>>
>> But the most important difference is that in a newsgroup, we all learn
>> from each other. Today you ask a question. You get an answer.
>> Tomorrow, someone else asks the same question. You know the answer now,
>> so you post it. That kind of mutual education just can't happen in
>> email. Today we are the student; tomorrow we are the teacher. ;<) Sort
>> of like the tagline in your Sig.
>>
>> So I've customized my WLM Toolbar. The first button on the left is for
>> Reply Group - and it gets used a lot.
>>
>> One other factor that you hinted at: Those of us who spend many hours a
>> week trying to help other users here freely volunteer our time for no
>> pay. But that does NOT mean that we've volunteered to become the private
>> Tech Support department for anybody.
>>
>> Many posters use handles and "mung" (or "munge") their email addresses -
>> as you have done - to discourage emails and spam. I've always posted my
>> real name and email address. Yes, I do get some spam (not as much as a
>> couple of years ago). But I've always believed that I should take full
>> responsibility for what I say. But that does NOT mean that I am
>> specifically inviting email regarding my newsgroup posts.
>>
>> Once you get up the learning curve a little, I think you'll like WLM.
>> ;<)
>>
>> Oh, one more point: My posts are often more wordy than they might need
>> to be. A part of the reason is that we never know who may be "reading
>> over our shoulders" in a newsgroup. If I leave out a point because I
>> think YOU already know it, that omitted point might be just the one that
>> trips up a less-experienced "lurker". (In a newsgroup, "lurking" -
>> reading without posting - is A Good Thing. Many lurkers learn the
>> answers to questions they hadn't even gotten around to asking.)
>>
>> See you around the newsgroups! ;<)
>>
>> RC
>>
>> "C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:32BE8277-BD5B-4513-B535-62A469FAB8FB@xxxxxx

>>> This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
>>> your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
>>> notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
>>> Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This
>>> server requires a secure connection". I don't know whether or not you
>>> have received my replies.
>>> Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the
>>> "Reply" button or the "Reply Group" button. I have determined that if I
>>> use the reply button it goes to the nonexistent email listing in your
>>> reply, but then again, I could be wrong. I used the "Reply" button
>>> because I read somewhere, while trying to understand how to use this
>>> application, that I should use the "Reply" button when responding to the
>>> sender. I also read somewhere that if I use the "Reply Group" button my
>>> reply will be listed as a single new entry posted to the discussion
>>> group as opposed to being directed to the poster I am trying to reply
>>> to. I don't know. I give up.
>>> I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
>>> understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize. I don't
>>> wish to utilize your valuable free time but I have no choice. I can
>>> foresee myself posting ridiculous questions for the foreseeable future
>>> and I realize my questions will seem laughable and idiotic to the other
>>> users of WLM. I just find it unbelievable that I can find no information
>>> related to the functions and usability of this application. This is
>>> causing me nothing but frustrations and aggravations.
>>> The last thing I want to do is cause other posters grief by my
>>> continuous postings seeking information they already know. I don't care
>>> if everyone thinks I am stupid because it is apparent that I am.
>>> Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for any assistance.
>>> Have a nice day.
>>>
>>> C.B.

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 00:19:21 -0500, C.B. wrote:

> "R. C. White" <rc@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:50AE335F-1F29-414F-B0B4-12B6781530AF@xxxxxx

>> "C.B." <notreallycbcbmullen@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:32BE8277-BD5B-4513-B535-62A469FAB8FB@xxxxxx

>>> This post is mainly for LarryE and Winston. I have tried to reply to
>>> your posts related to my previous post. I received a "delivery failure"
>>> notification regarding my replies to both of you. I then went to the
>>> Properties for my server (Outgoing mail (SMTP)) and unchecked "This
>>> server requires a secure connection".

<snip>

>>> Secondly, I don't understand if I am to send my reply using the
>>> "Reply" button or the "Reply Group" button.

<snip>

>>> I realize I am somewhat of a nuisance concerning my lack of
>>> understanding of WLM and its features and I sincerely apologize...I just
>>> find it unbelievable that I can find no information...

<snip>

>> Newsgroups are NOT email. They are more like the BBS (Bulletin Board
>> Systems) of a couple of decades ago, or Forums (Fora?) of CompuServe fame.

<snip>

> Thank you for the informative reply. Yes, I know that newsgroups are
> not email, but this is the first time I have used a newsreader and Microsoft
> chose to not provide any information as to how to configure and use WLM,
> including the newsreader...I can't find any tutorials or articles relating
> to it.

Configuring the client is easy. Using it effectively is not so easy. There
is no way that Microsoft (or Mozilla, for that matter) can include a
tutorial on effective use of the client. There is a whole body of
information out there, if you use the right key words in search. Newsgroups
are, collectively, known as "Usenet". However, Usenet does not cover all
NNTP servers. There are operators of NNTP servers which don't allow their
groups to be propagated to the Usenet. Confusing, eh?

Here is a search I ran using the key words "using" and "usenet":

http://find.copernic.com/CopernicT?q...y=using+usenet

Two of the links seem particularly helpful:

http://www.ibiblio.org/usenet-i/usenet-help.html
http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbu...ng-USENET.html

> When I send this reply I am typing now, and I click on "Reply Group",
> will it go to the discussion group as a single entry comment or question, or
> will it go into my original thread?

It will go to the thread.

> If my reply does not go to my original thread, how do I know you have
> received my reply?

There is no way to know who has read the replies, other than seeing the
replies to the replies.

> Is my reply connected in some way to your reply to my questions so that
> you are alerted I replied to you or do you have to actively seek it?

Different clients have different ways for the user to configure a notice of
a reply.

> The reason I munged my email address is because it was suggested by an
> MVP that I do so and I also read in an article on newsgroups that I should
> do it. It would be simple for someone to determine what my actual email
> address is but if you think I should "unmunge" it I will do so.

One usually puts an "unmunge" comment in the signature. Also, for munging,
you should never alter the username, the part to the left of the "@" symbol.
While altering the domain name is acceptable, be careful that you don't
inadvertently use an existing domain. Personally, I find it better to just
use one of the RFC 2606 reserved names for the posting email address:

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2606.html

Any name followed by the '.invalid' TLD should work. Set up a disposable
email address in the "Reply-To:" field, if you wish to avoid spam, or just
use that field if you don't really care about spam; or, if you don't want to
receive email from posters at all, leave it blank.

> I have one more subject I need guidance on. Should I top post or bottom
> post, or should I post within the reply in order to comment on a particular
> paragraph?

Whether to top post, or bottom post, is a touchy subject. In the long run,
lurk in a group for a while, and you will get a feel for what is acceptable.
Old School Usenet users prefer bottom posting. Top posting is, generally,
acceptable in these Microsoft groups.

> When I post a reply, should I include the whole text of the person I am
> replying to or should I shorten it?

It is fairly common to "full quote" in help threads; but trimming is a good
practice. If you trim those parts of a post you are not commenting on, and
add your comments in-line with the remaining quoted text, it makes reading
easier.

> I feel really bad about asking all these questions. If I could just
> find some material on using the WLM newsreader my questions would not be
> necessary and I wouldn't have to waste your time and the time of others.

You will never learn if you never ask. Hopefully, the links I included will
be helpful.

> It agitates me when someone seeks advice when the answer is only a search bar
> away but in my case the search bar, and Microsoft's websites, offer no
> answers. I know that my questions aggravate many people who already possess
> the knowledge I am seeking.

Sometimes a successful search requires knowing which key words to use in the
search. So ask some judicious questions, and take your search key words from
the responses. Some applicable key words for your questions include:

NNTP (the news server protocol"
Usenet
newsgroup
news server

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum