Hello there! This is my first post in this group and I'm here because
someone from Microsoft Communities referred me to you guys. I'm new to
Windows Live mail and have been enjoying it so far. I really like to use
stationery and when I try to download stationery from "Cloudeight" it won't
download into Windows Live Mail but just into Windows Mail. I wrote their
support people about this and they told me that Windows Live Mail is really
just hotmail and that no web based email will support stationery. I was
told Windows Live Mail is not the same as Windows Live Hotmail, but the
support person at Cloudeight will not listen to that at all and is insistent
so, I am here for your support....is there a way to use stationery in
Windows Live Mail and is it really just web based hotmail?

Unfortunately Windows Live Mail (which is different than Windows Live
Hotmail) does not support Stationery. I have been asking for support but
apparently the Live Mail Team doesn't think it will happen. If you use
Vista, the e-mail client (Windows Mail) that comes with Vista does support
Stationery, so whenever I want to use stationery, I use Windows Mail. But
if you are still on Windows XP and want to use stationery, you are better
off using Outlook Express. I'm sure someone else will come along and offer
a lot more information than I have provided.
--
©LarryEº

"SueZee" <suezee@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:16834FE4-6A02-48B5-8746-D5324D386264@xxxxxx
Hello there! This is my first post in this group and I'm here because
someone from Microsoft Communities referred me to you guys. I'm new to
Windows Live mail and have been enjoying it so far. I really like to use
stationery and when I try to download stationery from "Cloudeight" it won't
download into Windows Live Mail but just into Windows Mail. I wrote their
support people about this and they told me that Windows Live Mail is really
just hotmail and that no web based email will support stationery. I was
told Windows Live Mail is not the same as Windows Live Hotmail, but the
support person at Cloudeight will not listen to that at all and is insistent
so, I am here for your support....is there a way to use stationery in
Windows Live Mail and is it really just web based hotmail?

Thank you Larry. I am going to switch back to windows mail after getting the
following email from Cloudeight a few minutes ago....Here is what they
wrote:

"We have researched and are quite educated with Windows Live Mail; we were
part of Microsoft's invited beta testing long before it was available a Beta
to the general public. As far as "stationery' it depends on what your
definition of stationery is - most people don't consider a background
picture by itself "stationery". It's a background image..like a Web page
background - it's not stationery, it's a background picture . having to
spend time tweaking and changing font colors, margins etc. is no fun, and
the formatting is lost when sent anyway.

we were hopeful something may have changed, but it has not. Stationery
simply does not work in Windows Live. The scripting and coding becomes
corrupted and there is no work around.

Stationery indicates some sort of styling, background, top, bottom, right,
left margins, contrasting font color, font style, text deocration, music
etc. While a background picture might be used as and called "stationery"
most stationers don't. You can stick any sort of picture in an email and use
it as a background -and if you like - call it stationery. But we don't think
that really is stationery - it's a background and nothing more.

Also, we don't like where Microsoft is going with the "LIVE" mail idea.
Storing your passwords, messages, account logins, etc. should be stored on
Microsoft's servers because no matter how secure a server is, there's always
a chance it will be breeched. There's no reason to store all your mail
accounts, passwords, messages, etc. in two places. We don't think it's a
good idea.

Finally, why would anyone use an email program with less features? Moving
from Outlook Express or Windows Mail to a program with less features is a
downgrade not an upgrade. Just because something is new doesn't mean it's
better. There is not a single feature in Windows Live Mail (with the
exception of sending / retrieving Hotmail/MSN accounts) that Outlook
Express/Windows Mail does not have. But there are many features Windows
Mail/Outlook Express have that Windows Live Mail doesn't have:

Windows Mail / Outlook Express:

1. Store your private messages and private account information on your
computer - not on your computer and Microsoft's servers.

2. Allow you to use real stationery not just backgrounds

3. Allow you to edit, change, modify the source code (HTML) of any email

4. Allow multi-media content such as embedded background music as well as
video, applets, Java, JavaScript, etc.

5. Allow you to create and use signatures for outgoing mail

6. No advertising inserted in the bottom of outgoing mail by Microsoft.
Currently Microsoft only inserts ads outgoing Hotmail/MSN account emails -
but they could at any time being to insert ads in the bottom of email sent
with any account without the user being aware of it.

These are just a few of the features one gives up when one uses Windows Live
Mail. So I guess we don't understand why anyone would give up more features
for less- and give up some of their privacy as well.

It's your choice and you're welcome to use what you want to use, but to say
Windows Live Mail has a stationery button and therefore is capable os using
stationery depends on how one defines "stationery". Windows Mail and Outlook
Express come with some "stationery" pre-installed. But they're just
background pictures - and don't really qualify as stationery.

You're welcome to use Windows Live Mail if you really like it and don't mind
the potential privacy violations and having your private information stored
and synched in two different places. If you find the features of Windows
Live Mail adequate for your needs then using it is a personal choice.

Cloudeight Stationery is formatted, CSS-Styled, stationery - not background
pictures. They do not work CORRECTLY in Windows Live Mail - you can force
them to appear in the background but that's not working correctly - you'd be
taking a stationery and turning it into a non-formatted background picture -
to us that's not what stationery is. Trying to read mail sent by you using
stationery is difficult to read as formatting is lost. Check your "sent"
folder to get an idea of what others actually see.

Live is not replacing Windows Mail; at least not anytime soon.

Best Wishes, and thanks for choosing Cloudeight!

Eightball & Thundercloud
Cloudeight Internet LLC"



"©LarryEº" <me@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:#PuoiNqcIHA.536@xxxxxx

> Unfortunately Windows Live Mail (which is different than Windows Live
> Hotmail) does not support Stationery. I have been asking for support but
> apparently the Live Mail Team doesn't think it will happen. If you use
> Vista, the e-mail client (Windows Mail) that comes with Vista does support
> Stationery, so whenever I want to use stationery, I use Windows Mail. But
> if you are still on Windows XP and want to use stationery, you are better
> off using Outlook Express. I'm sure someone else will come along and
> offer
> a lot more information than I have provided.
> --
> ©LarryEº
>
> "SueZee" <suezee@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:16834FE4-6A02-48B5-8746-D5324D386264@xxxxxx
> Hello there! This is my first post in this group and I'm here because
> someone from Microsoft Communities referred me to you guys. I'm new to
> Windows Live mail and have been enjoying it so far. I really like to use
> stationery and when I try to download stationery from "Cloudeight" it
> won't
> download into Windows Live Mail but just into Windows Mail. I wrote their
> support people about this and they told me that Windows Live Mail is
> really
> just hotmail and that no web based email will support stationery. I was
> told Windows Live Mail is not the same as Windows Live Hotmail, but the
> support person at Cloudeight will not listen to that at all and is
> insistent
> so, I am here for your support....is there a way to use stationery in
> Windows Live Mail and is it really just web based hotmail?
>

Hi, SueZee.

I never use stationery so I'll stay out of that argument. But you said:

> someone from Microsoft Communities referred me to you guys.

Who are "you guys"? This IS Microsoft Communities, also known as discussion
groups, also known as newsgroups, hosted on the Microsoft public news server
(msnews.microsoft.com). It's just a different user interface. The message
texts are exactly the same. When you use your browser (IE7 or a third-party
browser) to access these messages, you are using Communities. When you use
OE or WM or WLM (or a third-party newsreader) to read exactly the same
message, you are reading posts in a newsgroup. Heck, these messages are
also "slurped" from the host server and re-distributed by other Usenet news
servers and by many web forums (who often do not credit the Microsoft server
but simply present the messages as the forum's own original content).

And we are the same "guys" in either interface. Mostly, we're just users
helping other users. Just like you are now helping by asking a question to
start a discussion that will, we hope, arrive at an answer that can benefit
many users, not just you, the one who started the conversation. That's how
newsgroups work. ;<)

In this thread, we all (you, Larry, Ron and I) used WLM (12.0.1606), but our
conversation can be read just as easily in Microsoft Communities by using a
browser. And a reader in Communities can reply, just as someone using
Outlook Express. Switching back and forth between the interfaces is
seamless and effortless.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@xxxxxx
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)

"SueZee" <suezee@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:16834FE4-6A02-48B5-8746-D5324D386264@xxxxxx

> Hello there! This is my first post in this group and I'm here because
> someone from Microsoft Communities referred me to you guys. I'm new to
> Windows Live mail and have been enjoying it so far. I really like to use
> stationery and when I try to download stationery from "Cloudeight" it
> won't download into Windows Live Mail but just into Windows Mail. I wrote
> their support people about this and they told me that Windows Live Mail is
> really just hotmail and that no web based email will support stationery.
> I was told Windows Live Mail is not the same as Windows Live Hotmail, but
> the support person at Cloudeight will not listen to that at all and is
> insistent so, I am here for your support....is there a way to use
> stationery in Windows Live Mail and is it really just web based hotmail?

I'm not a stationery expert, but Cloudeights's comments are mostly wrong.
My responses inline:


"SueZee" <suezee@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:13rki25se054nbd@xxxxxx

> There is not a single feature in Windows Live Mail (with the exception of sending / retrieving Hotmail/MSN accounts) that
> Outlook Express/Windows Mail does not have. But there are many features Windows Mail/Outlook Express have that Windows Live Mail
> doesn't have:
>
> Windows Mail / Outlook Express:
>
> 1. Store your private messages and private account information on your computer - not on your computer and Microsoft's servers.

WLM does not require you to store anything on Microsoft's servers.

> 2. Allow you to use real stationery not just backgrounds

I don't kow enough about " real stationery" to debate this, but Ron Summer's
post in this thread sure looked like stationery to me.

> 3. Allow you to edit, change, modify the source code (HTML) of any email
>
> 4. Allow multi-media content such as embedded background music as well as video, applets, Java, JavaScript, etc.

Since I'm not familiar with #3 and #4, I can't comment.

> 5. Allow you to create and use signatures for outgoing mail

I have no problem doing that with WLM.

> 6. No advertising inserted in the bottom of outgoing mail by Microsoft. Currently Microsoft only inserts ads outgoing
> Hotmail/MSN account emails - but they could at any time being to insert ads in the bottom of email sent with any account without
> the user being aware of it.

Why do they start talking about Hotmail all of a sudden when the topic of
discussion was WLM? This is known as arguing by obfuscation.
WLM does not receive or send ads.

> These are just a few of the features one gives up when one uses Windows Live Mail. So I guess we don't understand why anyone
> would give up more features for less- and give up some of their privacy as well.

In fact, there are several features in WLM that Windows Mail does not have,
such as auto-correction of commonly misspelled words.
Clearly these yokels have no idea what they are talking about!
--
Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (WLMail)

I don't have time today to research and report on stationery from
cloudeight.
Why does installing cloudeight stationery require connecting to the Internet
at the end of the installation?
My firewall stopped the access. That is worse than installing ads.
--
Ronald Sommer

"SueZee" <suezee@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:13rki25se054nbd@xxxxxx

> Thank you Larry. I am going to switch back to windows mail after getting
> the following email from Cloudeight a few minutes ago....Here is what they
> wrote:
>
> "We have researched and are quite educated with Windows Live Mail; we were
> part of Microsoft's invited beta testing long before it was available a
> Beta to the general public. As far as "stationery' it depends on what
> your definition of stationery is - most people don't consider a background
> picture by itself "stationery". It's a background image..like a Web page
> background - it's not stationery, it's a background picture . having to
> spend time tweaking and changing font colors, margins etc. is no fun, and
> the formatting is lost when sent anyway.
>
> we were hopeful something may have changed, but it has not. Stationery
> simply does not work in Windows Live. The scripting and coding becomes
> corrupted and there is no work around.
>
> Stationery indicates some sort of styling, background, top, bottom, right,
> left margins, contrasting font color, font style, text deocration, music
> etc. While a background picture might be used as and called "stationery"
> most stationers don't. You can stick any sort of picture in an email and
> use it as a background -and if you like - call it stationery. But we don't
> think that really is stationery - it's a background and nothing more.
>
> Also, we don't like where Microsoft is going with the "LIVE" mail idea.
> Storing your passwords, messages, account logins, etc. should be stored on
> Microsoft's servers because no matter how secure a server is, there's
> always a chance it will be breeched. There's no reason to store all your
> mail accounts, passwords, messages, etc. in two places. We don't think
> it's a good idea.
>
> Finally, why would anyone use an email program with less features? Moving
> from Outlook Express or Windows Mail to a program with less features is a
> downgrade not an upgrade. Just because something is new doesn't mean it's
> better. There is not a single feature in Windows Live Mail (with the
> exception of sending / retrieving Hotmail/MSN accounts) that Outlook
> Express/Windows Mail does not have. But there are many features Windows
> Mail/Outlook Express have that Windows Live Mail doesn't have:
>
> Windows Mail / Outlook Express:
>
> 1. Store your private messages and private account information on your
> computer - not on your computer and Microsoft's servers.
>
> 2. Allow you to use real stationery not just backgrounds
>
> 3. Allow you to edit, change, modify the source code (HTML) of any email
>
> 4. Allow multi-media content such as embedded background music as well as
> video, applets, Java, JavaScript, etc.
>
> 5. Allow you to create and use signatures for outgoing mail
>
> 6. No advertising inserted in the bottom of outgoing mail by Microsoft.
> Currently Microsoft only inserts ads outgoing Hotmail/MSN account emails -
> but they could at any time being to insert ads in the bottom of email sent
> with any account without the user being aware of it.
>
> These are just a few of the features one gives up when one uses Windows
> Live Mail. So I guess we don't understand why anyone would give up more
> features for less- and give up some of their privacy as well.
>
> It's your choice and you're welcome to use what you want to use, but to
> say Windows Live Mail has a stationery button and therefore is capable os
> using stationery depends on how one defines "stationery". Windows Mail and
> Outlook Express come with some "stationery" pre-installed. But they're
> just background pictures - and don't really qualify as stationery.
>
> You're welcome to use Windows Live Mail if you really like it and don't
> mind the potential privacy violations and having your private information
> stored and synched in two different places. If you find the features of
> Windows Live Mail adequate for your needs then using it is a personal
> choice.
>
> Cloudeight Stationery is formatted, CSS-Styled, stationery - not
> background pictures. They do not work CORRECTLY in Windows Live Mail - you
> can force them to appear in the background but that's not working
> correctly - you'd be taking a stationery and turning it into a
> non-formatted background picture - to us that's not what stationery is.
> Trying to read mail sent by you using stationery is difficult to read as
> formatting is lost. Check your "sent" folder to get an idea of what others
> actually see.
>
> Live is not replacing Windows Mail; at least not anytime soon.
>
> Best Wishes, and thanks for choosing Cloudeight!
>
> Eightball & Thundercloud
> Cloudeight Internet LLC"
>
>
>
> "©LarryEº" <me@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:#PuoiNqcIHA.536@xxxxxx

>> Unfortunately Windows Live Mail (which is different than Windows Live
>> Hotmail) does not support Stationery. I have been asking for support but
>> apparently the Live Mail Team doesn't think it will happen. If you use
>> Vista, the e-mail client (Windows Mail) that comes with Vista does
>> support
>> Stationery, so whenever I want to use stationery, I use Windows Mail.
>> But
>> if you are still on Windows XP and want to use stationery, you are better
>> off using Outlook Express. I'm sure someone else will come along and
>> offer
>> a lot more information than I have provided.
>> --
>> ©LarryEº
>>
>> "SueZee" <suezee@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:16834FE4-6A02-48B5-8746-D5324D386264@xxxxxx
>> Hello there! This is my first post in this group and I'm here because
>> someone from Microsoft Communities referred me to you guys. I'm new to
>> Windows Live mail and have been enjoying it so far. I really like to use
>> stationery and when I try to download stationery from "Cloudeight" it
>> won't
>> download into Windows Live Mail but just into Windows Mail. I wrote
>> their
>> support people about this and they told me that Windows Live Mail is
>> really
>> just hotmail and that no web based email will support stationery. I was
>> told Windows Live Mail is not the same as Windows Live Hotmail, but the
>> support person at Cloudeight will not listen to that at all and is
>> insistent
>> so, I am here for your support....is there a way to use stationery in
>> Windows Live Mail and is it really just web based hotmail?
>>

Originally Posted by SueZee

Hello there! This is my first post in this group and I'm here because
someone from Microsoft Communities referred me to you guys. I'm new to
Windows Live mail and have been enjoying it so far. I really like to use
stationery and when I try to download stationery from "Cloudeight" it won't
download into Windows Live Mail but just into Windows Mail. I wrote their
support people about this and they told me that Windows Live Mail is really
just hotmail and that no web based email will support stationery. I was
told Windows Live Mail is not the same as Windows Live Hotmail, but the
support person at Cloudeight will not listen to that at all and is insistent
so, I am here for your support....is there a way to use stationery in
Windows Live Mail and is it really just web based hotmail?

Windows Live mail does support stationery in Windows XP when you write the e-mail there will be a command button with the stationery icon on it and an arrow pointing down so you can select which stationery you wish. Also if you wish to see more stationeries below the list is a choice of options whether you want more stationeries or no stationeries.

As of this writing, there is no existing scrolling, musical stationery that
will work in Windows Live Mail, so I played around with some code until I
made it work. The instructions and stationery template are below. I make no
claims of ownership of anything in this post. Do what you will with it.
Offer it for download on your web site, email it to Aunt Sadie, alter the
code, whatever. My hope is that this template will end up in the hands of
stationery-makers who will make lots of beautiful Live Mail stationery and
offer it for download. Why? Because I need some scrolling stationery, as do
lots of other Live Mail users.

My other hope is that this stationery will cause people to realize that
Windows Live Mail can probably handle every kind of stationery that Outlook
Express can handle, and it would be great if that realization spurs those
people to play around with code for different types of stationery until they
all work in Live Mail. The template should be of some help in such endeavors.

I don't know whether this stationery will work in Outlook Express, but if it
doesn't, it would be great if someone would come up with a template that will
work in both programs. If you are a whiz with html, css, javascript, etc.
(and I certainly am not), parts of the code and the placement of certain code
in the template might look odd to you, that's because I did whatever I had to
do to make it work... trial and error.

INSTRUCTIONS:
Even though the default location for Windows Live Mail stationery is My
Documents/My Stationery, this stationery will not work correctly unless all
of the files are located here:
C:/Program Files/Common Files/Microsoft Shared/Stationery

In the template, all items that can be changed are in capital letters. Do
not make any other changes or the stationery will not work. The code for the
midi file is just above the closing body tag, so be sure to scroll all the
way down.

THE TEMPLATE:

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<!-- saved from url=(0014)about:internet -->

<html><head><title>TITLE HERE</title>

<style type="text/css">
body {
FONT-FAMILY: Arial;
FONT-SIZE: 16pt;
COLOR: 000000;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff;
MARGIN-LEFT: 156 px;
margin-top: 10 px;
background-position: top left;
background-repeat: repeat-y;
}
</style>
</head>

<!-- CHANGE IMAGE NAME HERE. -->
<BODY id="ridBody" background="IMAGE.jpg">


<div style="position: absolute; LEFT: 156px; top: 10px; height: 200px;
WIDTH: 604px; padding: 5px;">

<!-- THE COMBINED NUMBER OF PIXELS IN THE "LEFT" AND "WIDTH" OF THIS DIV
SHOULD EQUAL 760. CHANGE LEFT TO THE SAME NUMBER THAT YOU USED FOR
MARGIN-LEFT. SUBTRACT THAT NUMBER OF PIXELS FROM 760 TO GET THE WIDTH. -->


<!-- DO NOT PUT ANY PARAGRAPH TAGS INSIDE THIS DIV. IF NEED BE, USE BREAK
TAGS INSTEAD. OTHERWISE, WHEN THE STATIONERY IS OPENED IN WINDOWS LIVE MAIL,
THE USER WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REMOVE THE TEXT IN ORDER TO TYPE THEIR OWN. -->

TEXT HERE
</div>

<div id=imageholder
style="left: 0px; position: absolute; top: 0px; z-index: -1">
<script type="text/vbscript">
<!--
direction="up"
SIZEW=1020 ' WIDTH OF THE SCROLLING IMAGE HERE
SIZEH=296 ' HEIGHT OF THE SCROLLING IMAGE HERE
nail=0
source=document.body.background
tall=((screen.height\sizeh)+1)*2
wide=(screen.width\sizew)+1

if direction="up" then
max=tall
axis=sizeh
placement=0
reset=0
elseif direction="left" then
max=wide
axis=sizew
placement=0
reset=0
elseif direction="down" then
max=tall
axis=0
placement=-sizeh
reset=-sizeh
elseif direction="right" then
max=wide
axis=0
placement=-sizew
reset=-sizew
end if

document.write "<pre>"
for temp=0 to max
if direction="up" then
document.write "<img id=pics"&temp&" src><br>"
elseif direction="left" then
document.write "<img id=pics"&temp&" src>"
elseif direction="down" then
document.write "<img id=pics"&temp&" src><br>"
elseif direction="right" then
document.write "<img id=pics"&temp&" src>"
end if
document.all("pics"&temp).src=source
next
document.write "</pre>"

document.body.background=" "

sub scroll()
if nail=1 then
exit sub
end if
if placement < axis then
setTimeout "move", 1
else
placement=reset
setTimeout "move", 1
end if
end sub

sub move()
if direction="up" then
imageholder.style.top=-placement
elseif direction="left" then
imageholder.style.left=-placement
elseif direction="down" then
imageholder.style.top=placement
elseif direction="right" then
imageholder.style.left=placement
end if
placement=placement+1
setTimeout "scroll", 1
end sub

sub imageholder_onclick()
if nail=0 then
nail=1
else
nail=0
end if
scroll()
end sub

scroll()
-->
</script>

<!-- CHANGE MIDI FILE NAME HERE. -->
<bgsound balance="0" src="C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft
Shared\Stationery\MUSIC.mid" volume="0" loop="2">
</body></html>