Hi does anyone know which company MS is using for the spam filter in WLM?

I'm in the process of comparing it to the one my ISP has just switched to
(Postini)

So far, the WLM filter actually identifies more spam than Postini, but
Postini seems to spot messages that spoof my own email address, whereas WLM
never does. BUT WLM has given a false positive or two, doing so a bit too
often to just let it delete spam automatically.

When i used to use Outlook Express, I paid for the use of Cloudmark - and
that was wonderful, never had false positives in a lengthy test, and so
could just let it delete. But it doesn't work with WLM.

Thanks

You may have to remove your name and email address from the
list of contacts, because WLM tends to trust mail from contacts.
You can change that option here: Tools, Safety Options, Safe Senders.

--
Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (WLMail)


"JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:u1qR12$lIHA.2328@xxxxxx

> Hi does anyone know which company MS is using for the spam filter in WLM?
>
> I'm in the process of comparing it to the one my ISP has just switched to (Postini)
>
> So far, the WLM filter actually identifies more spam than Postini, but Postini seems to spot messages that spoof my own email
> address, whereas WLM never does. BUT WLM has given a false positive or two, doing so a bit too often to just let it delete spam
> automatically.
>
> When i used to use Outlook Express, I paid for the use of Cloudmark - and that was wonderful, never had false positives in a
> lengthy test, and so could just let it delete. But it doesn't work with WLM.
>
> Thanks

Their own SmartScreen, the same as in Outlook.
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safe...default.mspx#2
[You may find that the bookmark ("#2") doesn't work in that link; WLMail
doesn't like "#" in URLs. Just scroll down to Microsoft SmartScreen.]
--
Noel

"JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:u1qR12$lIHA.2328@xxxxxx

> Hi does anyone know which company MS is using for the spam filter in WLM?
>
> I'm in the process of comparing it to the one my ISP has just switched to
> (Postini)
>
> So far, the WLM filter actually identifies more spam than Postini, but
> Postini seems to spot messages that spoof my own email address, whereas
> WLM never does. BUT WLM has given a false positive or two, doing so a bit
> too often to just let it delete spam automatically.
>
> When i used to use Outlook Express, I paid for the use of Cloudmark - and
> that was wonderful, never had false positives in a lengthy test, and so
> could just let it delete. But it doesn't work with WLM.
>
> Thanks

"Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:EAF2E2AA-A675-4707-9235-0411901B1060@xxxxxx

> Their own SmartScreen, the same as in Outlook.
> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safe...default.mspx#2
> [You may find that the bookmark ("#2") doesn't work in that link; WLMail
> doesn't like "#" in URLs. Just scroll down to Microsoft SmartScreen.]
> --
> Noel
>
> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:u1qR12$lIHA.2328@xxxxxx

>> Hi does anyone know which company MS is using for the spam filter in WLM?
>>
>> I'm in the process of comparing it to the one my ISP has just switched to
>> (Postini)
>>
>> So far, the WLM filter actually identifies more spam than Postini, but
>> Postini seems to spot messages that spoof my own email address, whereas
>> WLM never does. BUT WLM has given a false positive or two, doing so a bit
>> too often to just let it delete spam automatically.
>>
>> When i used to use Outlook Express, I paid for the use of Cloudmark - and
>> that was wonderful, never had false positives in a lengthy test, and so
>> could just let it delete. But it doesn't work with WLM.
>>
>> Thanks

>

Hmmmm - just looked at that link - it suggests that Smartscreen may be
deleting emails that it is sure is spam - but doesn't offer any way for me
to vet this. Am I right?

"JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:estUo5CmIHA.4196@xxxxxx

> Hmmmm - just looked at that link - it suggests that Smartscreen may be deleting emails that it is sure is spam - but doesn't
> offer any way for me to vet this. Am I right?

Depends...on the accounts in use in WLM...
i.e...
Only if surpassing an SCL threshold **and** only for hotmail accounts which are filtered prior to WLM junk mail filter having a go
at them locally.

--
...winston
MS-MVP Windows Live Mail

"JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:estUo5CmIHA.4196@xxxxxx

> "Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:EAF2E2AA-A675-4707-9235-0411901B1060@xxxxxx

>> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:u1qR12$lIHA.2328@xxxxxx

>>> Hi does anyone know which company MS is using for the spam filter in
>>> WLM?

>> Their own SmartScreen, the same as in Outlook.
>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safe...default.mspx#2

> Hmmmm - just looked at that link - it suggests that Smartscreen may be
> deleting emails that it is sure is spam - but doesn't offer any way for me
> to vet this. Am I right?

I don't know about the last bit, but the answer to the first is no - the
junk filter in WLMail doesn't delete anything, unless you have "Permanently
delete suspected junk mail..." selected at Tools > Safety options > Options.
Suspected junk gets moved to a Junk e-mail folder.
Hotmail-type accounts also have junk filtering, as do many others, and these
will all need configuring at the other end to avoid loss of legitimate
messages.
--
Noel

"Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:4427DAEE-82F2-4C08-9E36-3F32924A6463@xxxxxx

> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:estUo5CmIHA.4196@xxxxxx

>> "Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:EAF2E2AA-A675-4707-9235-0411901B1060@xxxxxx

>>> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:u1qR12$lIHA.2328@xxxxxx

>

>>>> Hi does anyone know which company MS is using for the spam filter in WLM?

>

>>> Their own SmartScreen, the same as in Outlook.
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safe...default.mspx#2

>

>> Hmmmm - just looked at that link - it suggests that Smartscreen may be deleting emails that it is sure is spam - but doesn't
>> offer any way for me to vet this. Am I right?

>
> I don't know about the last bit, but the answer to the first is no - the junk filter in WLMail doesn't delete anything, unless
> you have "Permanently delete suspected junk mail..." selected at Tools > Safety options > Options. Suspected junk gets moved to
> a Junk e-mail folder.
> Hotmail-type accounts also have junk filtering, as do many others, and these will all need configuring at the other end to avoid
> loss of legitimate messages.

Like "JIP", I got the impression that part of SmartScreen runs at the server
level and deletes known spam before sending remaining mail on to the
user's mailbox on the server. This would happen before any user-selected
spam rules operate.
--
Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (WLMail)

"Gary VanderMolen" <gary@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:u8xSGtNmIHA.5660@xxxxxx

> "Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:4427DAEE-82F2-4C08-9E36-3F32924A6463@xxxxxx

>> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:estUo5CmIHA.4196@xxxxxx

>>> "Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:EAF2E2AA-A675-4707-9235-0411901B1060@xxxxxx
>>>> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>> news:u1qR12$lIHA.2328@xxxxxx

>>

>>>>> Hi does anyone know which company MS is using for the spam filter in
>>>>> WLM?

>>

>>>> Their own SmartScreen, the same as in Outlook.
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safe...default.mspx#2

>>

>>> Hmmmm - just looked at that link - it suggests that Smartscreen may be
>>> deleting emails that it is sure is spam - but doesn't offer any way for
>>> me to vet this. Am I right?

>>
>> I don't know about the last bit, but the answer to the first is no - the
>> junk filter in WLMail doesn't delete anything, unless you have
>> "Permanently delete suspected junk mail..." selected at Tools > Safety
>> options > Options. Suspected junk gets moved to a Junk e-mail folder.
>> Hotmail-type accounts also have junk filtering, as do many others, and
>> these will all need configuring at the other end to avoid loss of
>> legitimate messages.

>
> Like "JIP", I got the impression that part of SmartScreen runs at the
> server
> level and deletes known spam before sending remaining mail on to the
> user's mailbox on the server. This would happen before any user-selected
> spam rules operate.
> --
> Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (WLMail)

Well that is exactly what it says it does. Which I'm not really happy about.

I'd like to be able to watch for a while to make sure no false positives are
creeping through.

"Gary VanderMolen" <gary@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:u8xSGtNmIHA.5660@xxxxxx

> "Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:4427DAEE-82F2-4C08-9E36-3F32924A6463@xxxxxx

>> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:estUo5CmIHA.4196@xxxxxx

>>> "Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:EAF2E2AA-A675-4707-9235-0411901B1060@xxxxxx
>>>> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>> news:u1qR12$lIHA.2328@xxxxxx

>>

>>>>> Hi does anyone know which company MS is using for the spam filter in
>>>>> WLM?

>>

>>>> Their own SmartScreen, the same as in Outlook.
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safe...default.mspx#2

>>

>>> Hmmmm - just looked at that link - it suggests that Smartscreen may be
>>> deleting emails that it is sure is spam - but doesn't offer any way for
>>> me to vet this. Am I right?

>>
>> I don't know about the last bit, but the answer to the first is no - the
>> junk filter in WLMail doesn't delete anything, unless you have
>> "Permanently delete suspected junk mail..." selected at Tools > Safety
>> options > Options. Suspected junk gets moved to a Junk e-mail folder.
>> Hotmail-type accounts also have junk filtering, as do many others, and
>> these will all need configuring at the other end to avoid loss of
>> legitimate messages.

>
> Like "JIP", I got the impression that part of SmartScreen runs at the
> server
> level and deletes known spam before sending remaining mail on to the
> user's mailbox on the server. This would happen before any user-selected
> spam rules operate.

You've lost me there, Gary. How can a utility - a junk filter designed by
Microsoft Research - installed on my computer operate "at the server level"?
The server concerned might be my own, or Yahoo's, or my ISP's. Sure, it
operates on the Hotmail servers, where I can configure it to a certain
extent, and possibly on others that may have licensed it from MS in a more
or less user-configurable version, but the idea that this might be
preventing legitimate mail addressed to me from reaching me is unthinkable.
Exchange Server is a different kettle of fish, but even there, it's the
server admin that decides what to do with spam, not some insidious MS "we
know what's good for you" nanny program. SmartScreen - as I understand it -
does only what lots of other programs do - identifies and flags suspect mail
so that the user can decide what to do with it.
--
Noel

"Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:64EE86F1-AD98-4E83-ABF4-C093B5278294@xxxxxx

> "Gary VanderMolen" <gary@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:u8xSGtNmIHA.5660@xxxxxx

>> "Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:4427DAEE-82F2-4C08-9E36-3F32924A6463@xxxxxx

>>> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:estUo5CmIHA.4196@xxxxxx
>>>> "Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:EAF2E2AA-A675-4707-9235-0411901B1060@xxxxxx
>>>>> "JIP" <fred@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:u1qR12$lIHA.2328@xxxxxx
>>>
>>>>>> Hi does anyone know which company MS is using for the spam filter in WLM?
>>>
>>>>> Their own SmartScreen, the same as in Outlook.
>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safe...default.mspx#2
>>>
>>>> Hmmmm - just looked at that link - it suggests that Smartscreen may be deleting emails that it is sure is spam - but doesn't
>>>> offer any way for me to vet this. Am I right?
>>>
>>> I don't know about the last bit, but the answer to the first is no - the junk filter in WLMail doesn't delete anything, unless
>>> you have "Permanently delete suspected junk mail..." selected at Tools > Safety options > Options. Suspected junk gets moved
>>> to a Junk e-mail folder.
>>> Hotmail-type accounts also have junk filtering, as do many others, and these will all need configuring at the other end to
>>> avoid loss of legitimate messages.

>>
>> Like "JIP", I got the impression that part of SmartScreen runs at the server
>> level and deletes known spam before sending remaining mail on to the
>> user's mailbox on the server. This would happen before any user-selected
>> spam rules operate.

>
> You've lost me there, Gary. How can a utility - a junk filter designed by Microsoft Research - installed on my computer operate
> "at the server level"? The server concerned might be my own, or Yahoo's, or my ISP's. Sure, it operates on the Hotmail servers,
> where I can configure it to a certain extent, and possibly on others that may have licensed it from MS in a more or less
> user-configurable version, but the idea that this might be preventing legitimate mail addressed to me from reaching me is
> unthinkable. Exchange Server is a different kettle of fish, but even there, it's the server admin that decides what to do with
> spam, not some insidious MS "we know what's good for you" nanny program. SmartScreen - as I understand it - does only what lots
> of other programs do - identifies and flags suspect mail so that the user can decide what to do with it.

It has been estimated that as much as 90% of email traversing the Internet
is spam. Thankfully, you and I don't see that high a percentage because most
of that spam is stopped at the mail server level, without any intervention (or
choice) on the user's part. It's not just Hotmail and AOL that do this, all the
large mail providers do so as a matter of self-preservation.

As far as SmartScreen, it's a multilevel approach. Part of it runs on the mail
server, and another part is embedded in the client program, whether that
client be desktop (like WLM) or Hotmail on the web. The client side is user-
configurable (to some extent), but the server part is not. Think of the
server part as doing the initial triage, sending the DOA patients to the morgue.
In this metaphor, 'DOA patients' would be known spam, and mail bounced for
policy reasons.
--
Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (WLMail)