Class Action

As a software developer and entrepreneur I'm an extraordinarily patient end
user, but this is too much. I was quite happy with OE and hotmail and now
I've been pushed into this mess.

I've spent the better part of the last 36 hours trying to untangle this
mess. WML just suddenly stopped working. It would loop. It would tie my PC
into knots. Enough. I did an uninstall and reinstall and things are a bit
smoother, but this is still an awful product.

Has it occurred to anyone that those of us who have payed for use of hotmail
had an expectation that it would continue to work with OE as it was? Does
the term "class action" pique anyone's interest?

"Jack Gostl" <nomail@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:F18395C9-FB23-4F69-A569-F26346E4DFAB@xxxxxx They haven't cut off OE support yet. You won't be able to demonstrate
damages until they actually do that. If you have paid Hotmail, why don't
you just use pop3 and continue to use OE, or use the excellent upgraded web
client? That's what the judge is going to say.

Cheers,

Earle

One of the main reasons I used hotmail was that it didn't keep my folders on
my local PC. This has two advantages. (1) It lets me access them from any PC
(2) It means that I don't have backup issues. For these reaosns, except for
hotmail, I use IMAP.

I don't much care for the web client because I am a heavy email user with
multiple client.

No, I purchased a product, a hotmail subscription, with the expectation that
it would work a certain way for the duration of the subscription. In fact,
recently Microsoft announced that the only way to use OE with hotmail, was
to pay for it. I will be quite happy if Microsoft refunds the remainder of
my subscription. If faced with refunding subscriptions for a few million
people they might bend a bit.

On Sat, 10 May 2008 12:52:06 -0400, Jack Gostl wrote:
I have read, somewhere, that Windows Live has relented, and extended the
cutoff date for turning off WebDAV support past June 30, 2008. The extension
was "indefinite".

Since you are willing to pay for email service, I'd recommend Fastmail. For
a fee you get SMTP access, as well as IMAP access (free accounts are IMAP
only, no SMTP).

http://fastmail.fm/

I'd suggest getting the account, using MSOE to move your email from the
Windows Live Hotmail folders to the Fastmail IMAP folders; then, when you
are satisfied that all is working as desired, pursuing a refund from Windows
Live for the unused portion of the subscription. Probably a lot cheaper, and
easier, than a lawsuit.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

I don't see any commitment expressed or implied that a Hotmail Plus subscription for that $20/yr fee will work indefinitely with
any email client.
What you do receive for that exorbitant fee is a doubling of the mail box size(10Gb vs 5 for free), no ads from other companies,
larger file attachments 20Mb per email, and no expiration due to account inactivity.
http://get.live.com/1166188034?workarea=1

One additional feature without a cost increase was added in Sept 2007 but also not exclusive to any email client---Pop3 access.

The decision to delay the deprecation of WebDAV access was announced on May 5th. Even if WebDav access had been deprecated in June
2008, Pop3 access to a Hotmail Plus account was not impacted.

For information on the extent of the $20 annual renewable contract see:
http://help.live.com/help.aspx?project=tou&mkt=en-us
cf. Item 19 through 22

Class action based on an expectation without an expressed or implied commitment may be nothing more than a pipe dream.

--
...winston
ms-mvp mail


"Jack Gostl" <nomail@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:F18395C9-FB23-4F69-A569-F26346E4DFAB@xxxxxx

>> No, I purchased a product, a hotmail subscription, with the expectation Except that I'm getting annoyed. Hotmail plus OE worked fine except for
minor problems. Now, this program, WLM, regularly turns my PC into chopped
liver. It locks up. It runs slow. I've had to do more reboots in the two
weeks since I installed it than I did in the previous six months. On
Thursday, WLM went completely nuts. After hours of trial and error, I had to
uninstall and reinstall it, only to discover that the uninstall leaves
things behind.

Plus... even when it works, it has some astoundingly user unfriendly
features (that I'll be glad to list upon request).

I'll tell you what I'm thinking of doing. I'm considering writing a short
letter to the MS legal department, telling them that I paid for two hotmail
accounts specifically because they told me that I needed to pay to use
hotmail with OE. They are failing to deliver services that they paid for.
The upgrade path they have mandated requires an upgrade in my hardware,
involves a time consuming conversion and even then forces me to use a
product with tons of defects.

If they get a couple of thousand letters like that, it will properly adjust
their perspective.

Unless magic happens, they have lost me for good. But it takes time to
migrate under the best of circumstances, not to mention that the hotmail
addresses are out there all over the place.

BTW - one thing is for sure about WLM. Since I started posting here, my junk
mail has increased tenfold. (Yes, I just altered my address, but its too
late.)

Actually, now that I think of it, try this URL

https://fortress.wa.gov/atg/formhand...laintForm.aspx

You can file a complaint with the State of Washington Attorney General
online.

> I don't see any commitment expressed or implied that a Hotmail Plus Actually, they stated quite clearly that the $20/year was necessary to work
with OE.
Hmmm.... lets see. I can get a 100gb drive for $200. So 10gb... yes... you
are right. 10gb is worth about $20.
I should hope they don't expire the account. It was paid for. Suppose you
pay for a year of phone service, and you don't use the phone for 90 days.
Wouldn't you get upset if the phone company shut it down due to inactivity?
That's nice if you need pop3. Which I don't. See above
I don't care what it says NOW. I care about what it said in the email I
received about a year ago, which said "pay $20 if you want to use OE with
hotmail". That email seemed pretty "expressed". But forget the class action.

Anyone who paid $20 and uses OE should just go to

https://fortress.wa.gov/atg/formhand...laintForm.aspx

and file an online complaint with the State of Washington Attorney General.

Inline...
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail


"Jack Gostl" <nomail@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:uRWYGCusIHA.4376@xxxxxx
Irrelevant, that was your choice to pay. You agreed at that time to changes in the contract.
That comparison can only be made if your phone company states lack of use restricts/discontinues service.
I highly doubt your phone company web site or request for your 'rights in written form' includes any verbiage on usage expiration
beyond lack of payment.
You got it whether you need it or not. No different than the seal added at no cost to a bottle of Tylenol.
Irrelevant, that was your choice to pony up that $20 and each and everytime the notice for renewal arrives to charge your credit
card.. You agreed at that time to changes. The contract now is what applies.

Class action or not, expectation beyond contractual agreement, remains a pipe dream. Filing complaints based on your opinions
though would be within your prerogative/exclusive rights as a consumer.

Good luck on your quest.

Aha... do I detect the attitude of an attorney? If each person who has this
problem goes to the State of Washington AG site AND to the site of their
local regulatory agency, do you really think the wording of those paragraphs
will stand up amidst that clamor? Not only will some exec run for cover
after the two hundreth call, but I would be surprised if those terms stand
up in every state and in every jurisdiction.

Good luck to you too sir.