Vista - Newsgroup Actions

Can anyone explain, or point out an appropriate page which will tell
me, what the difference is between these actions when I'm in
Newsgroups view? This is in version 12.0.1606, and Help is totally
silent (or else I don't know where to look).

View > Refresh (= F5) (Also on toolbar)
Tools > Synchronize all (Also on toolbar)
Tools > Synchronize newsgroup
Tools > Get next n headers (On toolbar: Headers)
Tools > Get New headers
Synchronize account (Only on toolbar)

Sometimes, when I select a newsgroup in the folder pane, the status
bar tells me that WLMail is connecting to the server and checking
for messages. Sometimes it doesn't, and it seems to depend on where
I clicked previously.

What constitutes a New header? Or a New message? Is there a time
span involved?

And the same questions really apply to Synchronization settings, of
which there seem to be a bewildering variety, in several places.

Lastly, what does 'Catch up' mean, and what's the difference between
'Purge' and 'Delete'?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who needs a bit of guidance. Happy New
Year everybody!
--
Noel

I can answer some of those questions. Although I'm speculating on some
of them.

You'll find some additional information in Help by searching under
Synchronize.

View > Refresh (= F5) (Also on toolbar)
Refreshes the view. So if you have the view set to hide read messages,
those you have read recently will get hidden. IT also seems to do a
synchronize on the newsgroup.

The difference between Synchronize All and Newsgroup is that the latter
does only the current newsgroup. How much gets synchronized depends on
your settings (Headers only or Messages)

The Get next xx headers only applies if you have set Tools, Options,
Read to get xxx headers at a time.

New headers/messages mean since you last download headers (synchronized)
with the newsgroup.

Catch-up is intended for when you first visit a newsgroup or return to
one that you haven’t visited in a while. It marks all existing messages
in the newsgroup as having been read without actually downloading the
headers. You'll only see any new messages after this time.


--

Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm



"Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:uer92o4aJHA.4820@xxxxxx

Thanks, Mike. That's cleared a few things up. I've put some comments
inline...

"Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ej9nzR5aJHA.1184@xxxxxxI fear not - see screenshot.
Yes, that's what F5 has done since about DOS 2.0. That's why I found
it strange that the only effect I see is the same as Synchronize
newsgroup - unless I happen to have an account selected, in which
case it seems to download the names of all newsgroups on the server.
That makes sense, although I can't work out the difference between
the various sorts of synchronization. I can't see any difference at
all whether I choose Headers only or All messages or New messages
only. If I select an account and then click Synchronize Account on
the toolbar, I seem to get new messages (if there are any) in all
newsgroups under that account. And Synchronize All seems to poll all
my POP accounts for new messages as well as every other mail and
news account, and it takes forever.
If I don't set that, the option becomes Get New headers - what's the
difference? And what's the difference between Get ... headers and
Synchronize? Is it that Synchronize lops all the old messages off
the top of the list whereas Get ... headers doesn't? In which case,
if I only used Get ... headers, I would retain all the old posts,
including those that no longer reside on the server? I've been
looking for a way to do that for a long time.
So somewhere - locally, suppose - there is a flag that says when I
last synchronized - is that regardless of the type of
synchronization? And does it count if instead of choosing
Synchronize, I select Get ... headers? Or press F5?
I can't imagine why I'd want to do that - how do then know which
ones I've read and which not?

I've been using newsgroups for at least 15 years, so I thought it's
about time I learnt some of the basics. It's odd that Help doesn't
mention any of this, as if there were some sort of standard that
WLMail adhered to.

Thanks again
--
Noel

"Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:Oh49$n6aJHA.1268@xxxxxx
Only in the newest version. IIRC in the version that you are asking
about F5 does what it has always done even in OE, just issue an
NNTP LIST command. Note: you would have to do a netcap
trace to see this. It is not something which is even hinted at by
the troubleshooting log. Also, just saying F5 is not very precise.
Context matters, although it is less apparent in WLMail than it
is in OE. E.g. Synchronize newsgroup can only be done while
a newsgroup is open.


It's really pretty simple: Headers gets only headers; the maximum number of
headers depends on the Get ___ headers at a time option and whether
it is checked. If you use a synchronize command you have the additional
effect of being able to download bodies at the same time. (Actually
it is done as soon as possible after the headers are downloaded.)
The main difference between Synchronize New Messages Only
and Synchronize All Messages has to do with headers which were
_previously_ downloaded and with whether a Catch Up has been
done. E.g. if a Catch Up had not been done but headers had been
downloaded using Get 300... then Sychronize All Messages could
try to download more than those 300 as well has filling in the bodies
of those old headers which were already downloaded.

BTW the best way to get familiar with what the functions are IMO
is to use the troubleshooting log and see how the client reacts
to the 211 response to group request.


Regarding headers? None.


A synchronize command doesn't pay any attention to the Get ___
value. It just gets headers and bodies depending on both
your last use of the newsgroup and on your synchronization
criterion for that newsgroup.


I don't think so, I think that is only dependent on the
low sequence number in the 211 reply to group request.


That can only happen by accident of the server never updating
the low sequence number in the 211 reply to group request.


I doubt it. Again, all that would be required would be to remember
a previous 211 reply to group request


You wouldn't care. You would only be reading current messages.
You then would be depending on the care that others were giving
their quoting to understand the context for old threads or just marking
them with Ignore Conversation.


Ha! As with many MS products, if you really want to know how stuff works
it's reverse engineering all the way. ; )


HTH

Robert
---

Thanks, Robert. That's cleared up a few more grey areas for me. The
reason for the delay in replying is that I grasped the nettle,
having read a number of posts where it said that the latest build
was quite stable, and installed 14.0.8050.1202, since when I've had
more crashes than I had in over a year's operation of 12.0.1606

Just a couple of questions - why (I'm more interested in the 'why'
than the 'how') would anyone wish to specify 'Headers only' as a
sync option, since as far as I can see there's no difference at all
between that and 'All messages'? And equally 'Get ... headers' seems
to do exactly the same as 'Sync selected newsgroup'. I notice that
F5 is now officially a shortcut for 'Sync all newsgroups'.
--
Noel

"Robert Aldwinckle" <robald@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:C80D9BE4-8BF8-4E50-827B-E66B5FDB5102@xxxxxx

> Thanks, Robert. That's cleared up a few more grey areas for me. The reason* Where did you ever get that idea about V14?
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum

"Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:eMvS3QrbJHA.1704@xxxxxx

"Ildhund" <jnllb@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:eMvS3QrbJHA.1704@xxxxxx
Error Signatures? Also, did you uninstall the old WLMail before installing
the new one? (It won't affect your message caches to do that
but you might want to back them up JIC. <W>) It may also be relevant to know
if you installed any of the other Live Essentials products at the same time
and if you uninstalled any previously installed versions of those products too.


As I tried to explain but was somewhat inconvenienced by having
to agree with one of your statements <w>, the difference occurs
when the Get 300 messages at a time option is checked.
E.g. if you suspect you are going to be able to get more than
300 messages from a newsgroup and want to see
all possible headers but only headers Synchronize Headers Only
(done before entering the newsgroup) would do that.

I think the key concept to grasp when thinking about the Get 300...
option is that it is used automatically when you enter a newsgroup.
If you sometimes want to use it, e.g. when sampling new newsgroups
it is helpful. OTOH if you are trying to maintain a complete cache
or see all possible messages you should either normally leave it
unchecked or be careful about not entering a newsgroup while
in a Working Onlne state, at least until you download all the new
ones using a Synchronize command to get it up-to-date.

Notice that you can avoid entering a newsgroup without having
to go offline and still synchronize it before entering it by
using either the Synchronize All or Synchronize Account commands.
In order to use the Synchronize Newsgroup command instead
you would have to be in a Working Offline state first,
then enter the newsgroup and then issue the command;
otherwise, at least when your synchronization criterion
was New Messages, the automatic Get next... would
be done first and that would change the definition of
"New" for your intended Synchronize Newsgroup command.

Again, it depends on whether that Get 300... option is checked.
If it is checked Tools, Get Next 300... (or the Headers button
in the toolbar) would download just the latest 300 headers,
not all of them. If the option is unchecked, then you're right,
a Synchronize command with Headers Only wouldn't have
much advantage to simply entering each newsgroup and
letting the automatic Get (unlimited because the option is
unchecked) do that for you. OTOH I like to see the summary
of the number of headers downloaded and whether watched
threads are being updated before just picking one newsgroup
to start with.


But it appears to be only more of a... for (all newsgroups) do synch newsgroup.
Ctrl-F5 is closer to the old Sychronize All. E.g. when Watched threads
are involved (which I use a lot) I don't see a potentially problematic extra task
in the Status window. Long ago that extra task burned me in OE
and I got into the habit of avoiding it by using Synchronize All (then Ctrl-Shift-M)
The problem supposedly was eventually fixed in a version of OE
but I think the last time I formally tested it in WLMail it still was present
apparently regressed in the ported code. If you want to see more of
an explanation of this issue search the OE NG (all the way back to OE5)
with the search expression: "Loose Catch-Up". Do the search in
Google Groups instead of the MS Communities web interface to newsgroups
because a lot of my posts don't get rated, so many threads I post in eventually
get discarded... ; )

Bizarre! Google Groups is FUBAR. Refuses to acknowledge author:
or group: search term attributes. Also, Advanced search starts out
with a date range of 1 day... ; }

Anyway, this can give you a taste of what I'm referring to...

http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...=b&sitesearch=


Robert
---