Only 3 users in a onecare circle

permalink · 02-04-2008

I guess I will throw in with the current sentiment.

I am only operating 3 computers at home. I went to Onecare to hopefully reduce the complexity and system load of running a collection of software to defend against spyware and viruses. Most of the other "features" aren't of interest to me. Since the original beta, the feature set has increased but as previously mentioned too often making choices for the user that may not be desirable.

This is hardly a new attitude for MS. As a small example, I have only 3 icons on my desktop which is quite large (I use 3 large screens), MS always adds desktop icons with installs and version upgrades... usually add to the quick launch too. It is easy enough to delete them but I appreciate the other software companies that ASK.

Soon, my network will be adding my fiancé's computers and the Onecare limit unless resolved will make me look to other solutions. I have FIOS and the is a choice of security packages to choose from.

Until now, I didn't realize that additional Onecare licenses weren't available or that Onecare would interfere with interoperation with multiple LiveIDs.

Pathetic choices by MS, forcing others to make alternative choices.

"Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:#dF54KzZIHA.1204@xxxxxx

Quote:

> Just another voice to support Alex's comments. I had recommended OneCare to
> a small client with 6 computers in a workgroup. Everything was ok until the
> 2.0 upgrade disabled networking and tried to divide their workgroup into 2
> Circles of 3. Then it started auto-adding shared printers, causing problems
> with existing software that prints to particular printers by name.
>
> I don't buy antivirus software to have it make its own decisions about
> networking. It would have been fine if it SUGGESTED changes, but making
> unilateral configuration changes caused problems. It seems this product is
> now squarely aimed at home users, and not small businesses. It doesn't make
> sense that Microsoft is at the same time exploring volume licensing for
> OneCare, unless that's a different product version that is actually aimed at
> small business? Any chance that's the case?
>
> "Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:Oey0o5rZIHA.4696@xxxxxx

	Quote:
	>> Dear Steve, >> >> From reading the ng it seems that lots of OneCare users are getting mighty >> fed up very quickly, since you seem to represent Microsoft can you please >> report our dismay back to your software masters asap. >> >> I try and then buy the software. Then it upgrades itself and sets up these >> little 3 in a group "cliques" of computers which are isolated from any >> others that may be in a workgroup. Then the bloody software updates itself >> to lock down the firewall to prevent any e-mail traffic. >> >> Such features and auto-activity are just not wanted. At the very least we >> should be warned about what is going to happen rather than having to drop >> everything at a weekend just to keep our computers going. >> >> Personally I would prefer to run a naked computer and risk the odd virus. >> At least my computer is working properly now that OneCare is removed. >> >> We just want anti-virus and anti-psishing software, nothing more, nothing >> less. Please let microsoft know.

>

permalink · 02-04-2008

Stephen is an MVP, not a Microsoft employee. An MVP is a special kind of
customer, a volunteer. Here is the link for customer feedback.

https://feedback.live.com/default.as...tkey=wlonecare

Cheers,

Earle

"Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:56EF2054-C198-4E4A-9664-2E87774F95CB@xxxxxx

Quote:

> Hear Hear Paul.
> This unilateral behavior by microsoft has caused a lot of problems. The
> worst of it is that we PAID good money forsomething that has turned out to
> be useless.
> Can the microsoft chappie Stephen B give us an e-mail address where we can
> ask for a partial refund or a credit note so that when microsoft have
> developed a stable product that WORKS we may try it.
> AMcF
>
>
> "Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:%23dF54KzZIHA.1204@xxxxxx

Quote:

>> Just another voice to support Alex's comments. I had recommended OneCare
>> to a small client with 6 computers in a workgroup. Everything was ok
>> until the 2.0 upgrade disabled networking and tried to divide their
>> workgroup into 2 Circles of 3. Then it started auto-adding shared
>> printers, causing problems with existing software that prints to
>> particular printers by name.
>>
>> I don't buy antivirus software to have it make its own decisions about
>> networking. It would have been fine if it SUGGESTED changes, but making
>> unilateral configuration changes caused problems. It seems this product
>> is now squarely aimed at home users, and not small businesses. It doesn't
>> make sense that Microsoft is at the same time exploring volume licensing
>> for OneCare, unless that's a different product version that is actually
>> aimed at small business? Any chance that's the case?
>>
>> "Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:Oey0o5rZIHA.4696@xxxxxx

	Quote:
	>>> Dear Steve, >>> >>> From reading the ng it seems that lots of OneCare users are getting >>> mighty fed up very quickly, since you seem to represent Microsoft can >>> you please report our dismay back to your software masters asap. >>> >>> I try and then buy the software. Then it upgrades itself and sets up >>> these little 3 in a group "cliques" of computers which are isolated from >>> any others that may be in a workgroup. Then the bloody software updates >>> itself to lock down the firewall to prevent any e-mail traffic. >>> >>> Such features and auto-activity are just not wanted. At the very least >>> we should be warned about what is going to happen rather than having to >>> drop everything at a weekend just to keep our computers going. >>> >>> Personally I would prefer to run a naked computer and risk the odd >>> virus. At least my computer is working properly now that OneCare is >>> removed. >>> >>> We just want anti-virus and anti-psishing software, nothing more, >>> nothing less. Please let microsoft know.

>>
>>

>

permalink · 02-04-2008

Thanks for the comments, Paul.
I do agree that the Printer Sharing functionality provided in v2 can be "in your
face" and you need to find out how to disable it on each client PC.
As for disabling networking, unless there was another problem (and there were
and still are a bunch) with the upgrade, the process should have asked the user
to identify the network as "home or work" or "public" and the latter choice
locks down the firewall, disabling file and printer sharing and other "safe" LAN
options.
-steve

"Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote:

Quote:

>Just another voice to support Alex's comments. I had recommended OneCare to
>a small client with 6 computers in a workgroup. Everything was ok until the
>2.0 upgrade disabled networking and tried to divide their workgroup into 2
>Circles of 3. Then it started auto-adding shared printers, causing problems
>with existing software that prints to particular printers by name.
>
>I don't buy antivirus software to have it make its own decisions about
>networking. It would have been fine if it SUGGESTED changes, but making
>unilateral configuration changes caused problems. It seems this product is
>now squarely aimed at home users, and not small businesses. It doesn't make
>sense that Microsoft is at the same time exploring volume licensing for
>OneCare, unless that's a different product version that is actually aimed at
>small business? Any chance that's the case?
>
>"Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>news:Oey0o5rZIHA.4696@xxxxxx

	Quote:
	>> Dear Steve, >> >> From reading the ng it seems that lots of OneCare users are getting mighty >> fed up very quickly, since you seem to represent Microsoft can you please >> report our dismay back to your software masters asap. >> >> I try and then buy the software. Then it upgrades itself and sets up these >> little 3 in a group "cliques" of computers which are isolated from any >> others that may be in a workgroup. Then the bloody software updates itself >> to lock down the firewall to prevent any e-mail traffic. >> >> Such features and auto-activity are just not wanted. At the very least we >> should be warned about what is going to happen rather than having to drop >> everything at a weekend just to keep our computers going. >> >> Personally I would prefer to run a naked computer and risk the odd virus. >> At least my computer is working properly now that OneCare is removed. >> >> We just want anti-virus and anti-psishing software, nothing more, nothing >> less. Please let microsoft know.

--
Stephen Boots
MVP Windows Live
Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
sboots@xxxxxx

permalink · 02-04-2008

Note that I don't work for Microsoft.
Complaints can be sent "officially" via http://feedback.live.com , but I can
assure you that I have been pushing the complaints over to the OneCare team as
they come up here and in the forums.
-steve

"Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote:

Quote:

>Hear Hear Paul.
>This unilateral behavior by microsoft has caused a lot of problems. The
>worst of it is that we PAID good money forsomething that has turned out to
>be useless.
>Can the microsoft chappie Stephen B give us an e-mail address where we can
>ask for a partial refund or a credit note so that when microsoft have
>developed a stable product that WORKS we may try it.
>AMcF
>
>
>"Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>news:%23dF54KzZIHA.1204@xxxxxx

Quote:

>> Just another voice to support Alex's comments. I had recommended OneCare
>> to a small client with 6 computers in a workgroup. Everything was ok until
>> the 2.0 upgrade disabled networking and tried to divide their workgroup
>> into 2 Circles of 3. Then it started auto-adding shared printers, causing
>> problems with existing software that prints to particular printers by
>> name.
>>
>> I don't buy antivirus software to have it make its own decisions about
>> networking. It would have been fine if it SUGGESTED changes, but making
>> unilateral configuration changes caused problems. It seems this product is
>> now squarely aimed at home users, and not small businesses. It doesn't
>> make sense that Microsoft is at the same time exploring volume licensing
>> for OneCare, unless that's a different product version that is actually
>> aimed at small business? Any chance that's the case?
>>
>> "Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:Oey0o5rZIHA.4696@xxxxxx

	Quote:
	>>> Dear Steve, >>> >>> From reading the ng it seems that lots of OneCare users are getting >>> mighty fed up very quickly, since you seem to represent Microsoft can you >>> please report our dismay back to your software masters asap. >>> >>> I try and then buy the software. Then it upgrades itself and sets up >>> these little 3 in a group "cliques" of computers which are isolated from >>> any others that may be in a workgroup. Then the bloody software updates >>> itself to lock down the firewall to prevent any e-mail traffic. >>> >>> Such features and auto-activity are just not wanted. At the very least we >>> should be warned about what is going to happen rather than having to drop >>> everything at a weekend just to keep our computers going. >>> >>> Personally I would prefer to run a naked computer and risk the odd virus. >>> At least my computer is working properly now that OneCare is removed. >>> >>> We just want anti-virus and anti-psishing software, nothing more, nothing >>> less. Please let microsoft know.

>>
>>

--
Stephen Boots
MVP Windows Live
Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
sboots@xxxxxx

permalink · 02-05-2008

Yes it did ask me. I chose home or work and it still locked down the bloody
firewall.
Why should we pay to use beta software which buggers up our systems without
a by your leave?
In future don't buy anything ms until they have produced anything higher
than v3.7

Regards
AMcF

"StephenB" <sboots@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news

96fq3pkm87mb6l2t6p9l1tg6ao9p6e4k3@xxxxxx

Quote:

> Thanks for the comments, Paul.
> I do agree that the Printer Sharing functionality provided in v2 can be
> "in your
> face" and you need to find out how to disable it on each client PC.
> As for disabling networking, unless there was another problem (and there
> were
> and still are a bunch) with the upgrade, the process should have asked the
> user
> to identify the network as "home or work" or "public" and the latter
> choice
> locks down the firewall, disabling file and printer sharing and other
> "safe" LAN
> options.
> -steve
>
> "Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote:
>

Quote:

>>Just another voice to support Alex's comments. I had recommended OneCare
>>to
>>a small client with 6 computers in a workgroup. Everything was ok until
>>the
>>2.0 upgrade disabled networking and tried to divide their workgroup into 2
>>Circles of 3. Then it started auto-adding shared printers, causing
>>problems
>>with existing software that prints to particular printers by name.
>>
>>I don't buy antivirus software to have it make its own decisions about
>>networking. It would have been fine if it SUGGESTED changes, but making
>>unilateral configuration changes caused problems. It seems this product is
>>now squarely aimed at home users, and not small businesses. It doesn't
>>make
>>sense that Microsoft is at the same time exploring volume licensing for
>>OneCare, unless that's a different product version that is actually aimed
>>at
>>small business? Any chance that's the case?
>>
>>"Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>>news:Oey0o5rZIHA.4696@xxxxxx

	Quote:
	>>> Dear Steve, >>> >>> From reading the ng it seems that lots of OneCare users are getting >>> mighty >>> fed up very quickly, since you seem to represent Microsoft can you >>> please >>> report our dismay back to your software masters asap. >>> >>> I try and then buy the software. Then it upgrades itself and sets up >>> these >>> little 3 in a group "cliques" of computers which are isolated from any >>> others that may be in a workgroup. Then the bloody software updates >>> itself >>> to lock down the firewall to prevent any e-mail traffic. >>> >>> Such features and auto-activity are just not wanted. At the very least >>> we >>> should be warned about what is going to happen rather than having to >>> drop >>> everything at a weekend just to keep our computers going. >>> >>> Personally I would prefer to run a naked computer and risk the odd >>> virus. >>> At least my computer is working properly now that OneCare is removed. >>> >>> We just want anti-virus and anti-psishing software, nothing more, >>> nothing >>> less. Please let microsoft know.

>
> --
> Stephen Boots
> MVP Windows Live
> Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
> sboots@xxxxxx
>

permalink · 02-05-2008

Thanks Stephen, I understand. The problems with the networking change were:
a) Unattended computers automatically went into lockdown mode until someone
logged in. Small offices not infrequently use a workstation as a
pseudo-server. This change left such an office out of commission.
b) Only an administrative logon could make the networking choices. Best
practices dictate users are not admins.
c) While I appreciate Microsofts effort to protect unaware users from
themselves, software aimed at unsophisticated users should not change its
behavior during an automatic upgrade. I maintain the systems for my clients,
so they were shut out from shared networking until I could take care of it
for them. It would have been more appropriate to have the system PROMPT for
an upgrade, at which time there would have been an administrative user
logged on who could respond to the questions. Or leave the networking as it
was until an admin logged in, and then ask. Or tell the non-admin user that
they should get an admin to configure the new software.
Paul

"StephenB" <sboots@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news

96fq3pkm87mb6l2t6p9l1tg6ao9p6e4k3@xxxxxx

Quote:

> Thanks for the comments, Paul.
> I do agree that the Printer Sharing functionality provided in v2 can be
> "in your
> face" and you need to find out how to disable it on each client PC.
> As for disabling networking, unless there was another problem (and there
> were
> and still are a bunch) with the upgrade, the process should have asked the
> user
> to identify the network as "home or work" or "public" and the latter
> choice
> locks down the firewall, disabling file and printer sharing and other
> "safe" LAN
> options.
> -steve
>
> "Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote:
>

Quote:

>>Just another voice to support Alex's comments. I had recommended OneCare
>>to
>>a small client with 6 computers in a workgroup. Everything was ok until
>>the
>>2.0 upgrade disabled networking and tried to divide their workgroup into 2
>>Circles of 3. Then it started auto-adding shared printers, causing
>>problems
>>with existing software that prints to particular printers by name.
>>
>>I don't buy antivirus software to have it make its own decisions about
>>networking. It would have been fine if it SUGGESTED changes, but making
>>unilateral configuration changes caused problems. It seems this product is
>>now squarely aimed at home users, and not small businesses. It doesn't
>>make
>>sense that Microsoft is at the same time exploring volume licensing for
>>OneCare, unless that's a different product version that is actually aimed
>>at
>>small business? Any chance that's the case?
>>
>>"Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>>news:Oey0o5rZIHA.4696@xxxxxx

	Quote:
	>>> Dear Steve, >>> >>> From reading the ng it seems that lots of OneCare users are getting >>> mighty >>> fed up very quickly, since you seem to represent Microsoft can you >>> please >>> report our dismay back to your software masters asap. >>> >>> I try and then buy the software. Then it upgrades itself and sets up >>> these >>> little 3 in a group "cliques" of computers which are isolated from any >>> others that may be in a workgroup. Then the bloody software updates >>> itself >>> to lock down the firewall to prevent any e-mail traffic. >>> >>> Such features and auto-activity are just not wanted. At the very least >>> we >>> should be warned about what is going to happen rather than having to >>> drop >>> everything at a weekend just to keep our computers going. >>> >>> Personally I would prefer to run a naked computer and risk the odd >>> virus. >>> At least my computer is working properly now that OneCare is removed. >>> >>> We just want anti-virus and anti-psishing software, nothing more, >>> nothing >>> less. Please let microsoft know.

>
> --
> Stephen Boots
> MVP Windows Live
> Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
> sboots@xxxxxx

permalink · 02-05-2008

Quite.
I will certainly not trust ms software until they can get it right. I guess
Paul was happy to work for several hours on Sunday for no remuneration to
keep his clients happy? Because that's what I had to do, thanks to bloody
microsoft.
AMcF

"Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:%23ogGfFAaIHA.1960@xxxxxx

Quote:

> Thanks Stephen, I understand. The problems with the networking change
> were:
> a) Unattended computers automatically went into lockdown mode until
> someone logged in. Small offices not infrequently use a workstation as a
> pseudo-server. This change left such an office out of commission.
> b) Only an administrative logon could make the networking choices. Best
> practices dictate users are not admins.
> c) While I appreciate Microsofts effort to protect unaware users from
> themselves, software aimed at unsophisticated users should not change its
> behavior during an automatic upgrade. I maintain the systems for my
> clients, so they were shut out from shared networking until I could take
> care of it for them. It would have been more appropriate to have the
> system PROMPT for an upgrade, at which time there would have been an
> administrative user logged on who could respond to the questions. Or leave
> the networking as it was until an admin logged in, and then ask. Or tell
> the non-admin user that they should get an admin to configure the new
> software.
> Paul
>
> "StephenB" <sboots@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news

96fq3pkm87mb6l2t6p9l1tg6ao9p6e4k3@xxxxxx

Quote:

>> Thanks for the comments, Paul.
>> I do agree that the Printer Sharing functionality provided in v2 can be
>> "in your
>> face" and you need to find out how to disable it on each client PC.
>> As for disabling networking, unless there was another problem (and there
>> were
>> and still are a bunch) with the upgrade, the process should have asked
>> the user
>> to identify the network as "home or work" or "public" and the latter
>> choice
>> locks down the firewall, disabling file and printer sharing and other
>> "safe" LAN
>> options.
>> -steve
>>
>> "Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>

	Quote:
	>>>Just another voice to support Alex's comments. I had recommended OneCare >>>to >>>a small client with 6 computers in a workgroup. Everything was ok until >>>the >>>2.0 upgrade disabled networking and tried to divide their workgroup into >>>2 >>>Circles of 3. Then it started auto-adding shared printers, causing >>>problems >>>with existing software that prints to particular printers by name. >>> >>>I don't buy antivirus software to have it make its own decisions about >>>networking. It would have been fine if it SUGGESTED changes, but making >>>unilateral configuration changes caused problems. It seems this product >>>is >>>now squarely aimed at home users, and not small businesses. It doesn't >>>make >>>sense that Microsoft is at the same time exploring volume licensing for >>>OneCare, unless that's a different product version that is actually aimed >>>at >>>small business? Any chance that's the case? >>> >>>"Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote in message >>>news:Oey0o5rZIHA.4696@xxxxxx >>>> Dear Steve, >>>> >>>> From reading the ng it seems that lots of OneCare users are getting >>>> mighty >>>> fed up very quickly, since you seem to represent Microsoft can you >>>> please >>>> report our dismay back to your software masters asap. >>>> >>>> I try and then buy the software. Then it upgrades itself and sets up >>>> these >>>> little 3 in a group "cliques" of computers which are isolated from any >>>> others that may be in a workgroup. Then the bloody software updates >>>> itself >>>> to lock down the firewall to prevent any e-mail traffic. >>>> >>>> Such features and auto-activity are just not wanted. At the very least >>>> we >>>> should be warned about what is going to happen rather than having to >>>> drop >>>> everything at a weekend just to keep our computers going. >>>> >>>> Personally I would prefer to run a naked computer and risk the odd >>>> virus. >>>> At least my computer is working properly now that OneCare is removed. >>>> >>>> We just want anti-virus and anti-psishing software, nothing more, >>>> nothing >>>> less. Please let microsoft know.

>>
>> --
>> Stephen Boots
>> MVP Windows Live
>> Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
>> sboots@xxxxxx

>

permalink · 02-05-2008

All good points, Paul. Thanks.
I am in most agreement with c.) - I hate the way OneCare updates.
-steve

"Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote:

Quote:

>Thanks Stephen, I understand. The problems with the networking change were:
>a) Unattended computers automatically went into lockdown mode until someone
>logged in. Small offices not infrequently use a workstation as a
>pseudo-server. This change left such an office out of commission.
>b) Only an administrative logon could make the networking choices. Best
>practices dictate users are not admins.
>c) While I appreciate Microsofts effort to protect unaware users from
>themselves, software aimed at unsophisticated users should not change its
>behavior during an automatic upgrade. I maintain the systems for my clients,
>so they were shut out from shared networking until I could take care of it
>for them. It would have been more appropriate to have the system PROMPT for
>an upgrade, at which time there would have been an administrative user
>logged on who could respond to the questions. Or leave the networking as it
>was until an admin logged in, and then ask. Or tell the non-admin user that
>they should get an admin to configure the new software.
>Paul
>
>"StephenB" <sboots@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>news

96fq3pkm87mb6l2t6p9l1tg6ao9p6e4k3@xxxxxx

Quote:

>> Thanks for the comments, Paul.
>> I do agree that the Printer Sharing functionality provided in v2 can be
>> "in your
>> face" and you need to find out how to disable it on each client PC.
>> As for disabling networking, unless there was another problem (and there
>> were
>> and still are a bunch) with the upgrade, the process should have asked the
>> user
>> to identify the network as "home or work" or "public" and the latter
>> choice
>> locks down the firewall, disabling file and printer sharing and other
>> "safe" LAN
>> options.
>> -steve
>>
>> "Paul Shapiro" <paul@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>

	Quote:
	>>>Just another voice to support Alex's comments. I had recommended OneCare >>>to >>>a small client with 6 computers in a workgroup. Everything was ok until >>>the >>>2.0 upgrade disabled networking and tried to divide their workgroup into 2 >>>Circles of 3. Then it started auto-adding shared printers, causing >>>problems >>>with existing software that prints to particular printers by name. >>> >>>I don't buy antivirus software to have it make its own decisions about >>>networking. It would have been fine if it SUGGESTED changes, but making >>>unilateral configuration changes caused problems. It seems this product is >>>now squarely aimed at home users, and not small businesses. It doesn't >>>make >>>sense that Microsoft is at the same time exploring volume licensing for >>>OneCare, unless that's a different product version that is actually aimed >>>at >>>small business? Any chance that's the case? >>> >>>"Alex McFarlane" <alex@xxxxxx> wrote in message >>>news:Oey0o5rZIHA.4696@xxxxxx >>>> Dear Steve, >>>> >>>> From reading the ng it seems that lots of OneCare users are getting >>>> mighty >>>> fed up very quickly, since you seem to represent Microsoft can you >>>> please >>>> report our dismay back to your software masters asap. >>>> >>>> I try and then buy the software. Then it upgrades itself and sets up >>>> these >>>> little 3 in a group "cliques" of computers which are isolated from any >>>> others that may be in a workgroup. Then the bloody software updates >>>> itself >>>> to lock down the firewall to prevent any e-mail traffic. >>>> >>>> Such features and auto-activity are just not wanted. At the very least >>>> we >>>> should be warned about what is going to happen rather than having to >>>> drop >>>> everything at a weekend just to keep our computers going. >>>> >>>> Personally I would prefer to run a naked computer and risk the odd >>>> virus. >>>> At least my computer is working properly now that OneCare is removed. >>>> >>>> We just want anti-virus and anti-psishing software, nothing more, >>>> nothing >>>> less. Please let microsoft know.

>>
>> --
>> Stephen Boots
>> MVP Windows Live
>> Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
>> sboots@xxxxxx

--
Stephen Boots
MVP Windows Live
Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
sboots@xxxxxx

permalink · 02-06-2008

Dear Steve,
It was this factor that chose me to dump OneCare. How do I get my money
back?
Regards
AMcF

"StephenB" <sboots@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:g27iq3dvmammu02fdhoo4tm8nocvfh22el@xxxxxx