Windows Vista Forums

Total fresh virgin newbie question

  1. #1


    JonWayn Guest

    Total fresh virgin newbie question

    I am just geting my feet wet in virtual machine technology. I just bought a
    computer with Vista 64 bit installed. I had XP before and ran a software that
    the creator provides free, is 32 bit, and will not be updated beyond its
    current version because the creator has a competing commercial product that
    they sell for an arm. In order to continue using this software, which Vista
    refuses to install, I thought I'd try VM. If there is a better alternative
    please inform. From what I have read, a guest OS can communicate with the
    host through network services. That said, is there a way for me to send
    instructions from a program running in the host to the guest that will
    initiate running a program installed on the guest? If so, can someone point
    me to documentation that explains this technology.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Mark Rae [MVP] Guest

    Re: Total fresh virgin newbie question

    "JonWayn" <JonWayn@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:E610F4A1-9FCE-45FF-BBEA-8BCD034861B6@xxxxxx

    > In order to continue using this software, which Vista refuses to install,
    > I thought I'd try VM.
    Firstly, can you please clarify what you mean by "which Vista refuses to
    install"...
    How are you trying to install it?
    Are you running the installation as administrator?
    What error messages are you getting?

    > From what I have read, a guest OS can communicate with the host through
    > network services.
    That's right. Make sure that the host and guest(s) are in the same workgroup
    / domain and you should have no problems at all.

    As you're new to software virtualisation, the most important point to
    remember is that there is *NO* difference between a physical machine (like
    your host) and a virtual machine (like your guest) as far as the software
    running on it is concerned - both are *REAL* machines. When you create your
    first VM and then install e.g. Windows XP on it, Windows XP will have no the
    slightest notion that it's being installed on a virtual machine as opposed
    to a physical machine - it has no need whatsoever to know this. Whenever you
    encounter an issue with software virtualisation, the question to ask is "How
    would I do this on a physical machine?" and you will almost always arrive at
    the answer.

    > That said, is there a way for me to send instructions from a program
    > running in
    > the host to the guest that will initiate running a program installed on
    > the guest?
    As above. Supposing you had two physical machines on the same network as
    opposed to one physical machine and one virtual machine - how would you do
    it...?

    You might also find this newsgroup's FAQ useful:
    http://vpc.visualwin.com/ngfaq.aspx


    --
    Mark Rae
    ASP.NET MVP
    http://www.markrae.net


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    JonWayn Guest

    Re: Total fresh virgin newbie question

    Thanks for the reply. Here is further information pursuant to the questions
    you asked:

    > What error messages are you getting?
    * The error I get when I try to install the program goes as follows: The
    version of this file is not compatible with the version of Windows you're
    running. Check your computer system's information to see whether you need an
    x86 (32 bit) or x64 (64 bit) version of the program and then contact the
    provider.

    Or something to that effect. As stated in the opening thread, there is no
    contacting the provider for this one as they will not support it in any way.

    > How are you trying to install it?
    * I put a CD into the drive and click OK on the AutoPlay dialog. Then the
    message pops up


    I was aware that a VM is not very different from a real computer and no
    different at all as far as it sees itself. I am not a network savvy person
    and have never known how a client asks a server to run a program residing on
    the server. So, that is my main concern here. How do I get the host to signal
    the guest to start a program?
    "Mark Rae [MVP]" wrote:

    > "JonWayn" <JonWayn@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    > news:E610F4A1-9FCE-45FF-BBEA-8BCD034861B6@xxxxxx
    >

    > > In order to continue using this software, which Vista refuses to install,
    > > I thought I'd try VM.
    >
    > Firstly, can you please clarify what you mean by "which Vista refuses to
    > install"...
    > How are you trying to install it?
    > Are you running the installation as administrator?
    > What error messages are you getting?
    >

    > > From what I have read, a guest OS can communicate with the host through
    > > network services.
    >
    > That's right. Make sure that the host and guest(s) are in the same workgroup
    > / domain and you should have no problems at all.
    >
    > As you're new to software virtualisation, the most important point to
    > remember is that there is *NO* difference between a physical machine (like
    > your host) and a virtual machine (like your guest) as far as the software
    > running on it is concerned - both are *REAL* machines. When you create your
    > first VM and then install e.g. Windows XP on it, Windows XP will have no the
    > slightest notion that it's being installed on a virtual machine as opposed
    > to a physical machine - it has no need whatsoever to know this. Whenever you
    > encounter an issue with software virtualisation, the question to ask is "How
    > would I do this on a physical machine?" and you will almost always arrive at
    > the answer.
    >

    > > That said, is there a way for me to send instructions from a program
    > > running in
    > > the host to the guest that will initiate running a program installed on
    > > the guest?
    >
    > As above. Supposing you had two physical machines on the same network as
    > opposed to one physical machine and one virtual machine - how would you do
    > it...?
    >
    > You might also find this newsgroup's FAQ useful:
    > http://vpc.visualwin.com/ngfaq.aspx
    >
    >
    > --
    > Mark Rae
    > ASP.NET MVP
    > http://www.markrae.net
    >
    >

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Mark Rae [MVP] Guest

    Re: Total fresh virgin newbie question

    "JonWayn" <JonWayn@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:6B21C3F0-DDC0-4818-894A-27EAD70C96DA@xxxxxx

    [please don't top-post]

    > Thanks for the reply. Here is further information pursuant to the
    > questions
    > you asked:
    >

    >> What error messages are you getting?
    > * The error I get when I try to install the program goes as follows: The
    > version of this file is not compatible with the version of Windows you're
    > running. Check your computer system's information to see whether you need
    > an
    > x86 (32 bit) or x64 (64 bit) version of the program and then contact the
    > provider.
    Ah, but that's not what you reported! You said that Vista was refusing to
    install the app - in fact, it's the app's installer that is refusing to
    install itself on your version of Vista. That may sound pedantic, but the
    two scenarios are not the same thing at all...

    >> How are you trying to install it?
    > * I put a CD into the drive and click OK on the AutoPlay dialog. Then the
    > message pops up
    So what happens when you cancel AutoPlay and try to install the app as
    Administrator?

    > I was aware that a VM is not very different from a real computer
    A VM *IS* a real computer - this is absolutely fundamental. The fact that it
    is made of software and not hardware is completely irrelevant.

    > I am not a network savvy person and have never known how a client asks a
    > server to
    > run a program residing on the server. So, that is my main concern here.
    > How do I get
    > the host to signal the guest to start a program?
    Again, without wishing to be dismissive, the same way as you would get one
    physical machine to start a program on another physical machine - nothing to
    do with Virtual PC per se. How you will *actually* go about doing this will
    depend on what the remote process is, whether it provides any sort of
    interface for remote launch, whether it runs as a service etc... E.g. if SQL
    Server stops running on a remote server, it's possible for an administrator
    to start it up again remotely - but only because SQL Server provides a
    mechanism for this sort of remote control...


    --
    Mark Rae
    ASP.NET MVP
    http://www.markrae.net


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Jeff Gaines Guest

    Re: Total fresh virgin newbie question

    On 15/09/2008 in message
    <6B21C3F0-DDC0-4818-894A-27EAD70C96DA@xxxxxx> JonWayn wrote:

    >>What error messages are you getting?
    >* The error I get when I try to install the program goes as follows: The
    >version of this file is not compatible with the version of Windows you're
    >running. Check your computer system's information to see whether you need
    >an
    >x86 (32 bit) or x64 (64 bit) version of the program and then contact the
    >provider.
    I wonder if it has a 16 bit installer, I have a couple of 32 bit apps with
    16 bit installers so they won't install on XP x64.

    Do you want to install this app on the main PC or the virtual PC?

    --
    Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
    There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those
    who can't.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    JonWayn Guest

    Re: Total fresh virgin newbie question

    I'd love if I could install it on the main PC. The only reason the whole idea
    of the VPC came up was this program.

    "Jeff Gaines" wrote:

    > On 15/09/2008 in message
    > <6B21C3F0-DDC0-4818-894A-27EAD70C96DA@xxxxxx> JonWayn wrote:
    >

    > >>What error messages are you getting?
    > >* The error I get when I try to install the program goes as follows: The
    > >version of this file is not compatible with the version of Windows you're
    > >running. Check your computer system's information to see whether you need
    > >an
    > >x86 (32 bit) or x64 (64 bit) version of the program and then contact the
    > >provider.
    >
    > I wonder if it has a 16 bit installer, I have a couple of 32 bit apps with
    > 16 bit installers so they won't install on XP x64.
    >
    > Do you want to install this app on the main PC or the virtual PC?
    >
    > --
    > Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
    > There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those
    > who can't.
    >

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    JonWayn Guest

    Re: Total fresh virgin newbie question

    The whole time I had been logged on as an administrator. I am the only user
    of the computer and my default account is administrative in nature. So, when
    AutoPlay fails or I close its dialog, I open the CD image and double-click
    the Setup file. There are only a few files and setup is the only logical one
    that performs the installation process. However, I just get the same message
    described earlier.

    I doubt this little program provides any specific mechanism to be controlled
    or launched remotely. A little more details than I gave before: I run a
    number of MSAccess databases. Each database, after doing her magic with the
    data contained, exports the data to a text file and then uses Shell or
    ShellExecute to launch this program that we are talking about, then from
    Access, I detect the presence of the new window with API calls and use its
    menu system to get the window to act on the exported file. Of course, that
    was the scenario before I got Vista. So, basically, all I have is the path to
    this program's executable. It takes no arguments. Armed with just that, is
    there a way to send a file's path from one computer to another on the same
    network? Actually, if you could tell me how to send any old piece of
    information over a network, I should be able to figure out from there how to
    detect the presence of it on the receiving computer and do what I need to do
    upon its arrival.

    Thanks

    "Mark Rae [MVP]" wrote:

    > "JonWayn" <JonWayn@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    > news:6B21C3F0-DDC0-4818-894A-27EAD70C96DA@xxxxxx
    >
    > [please don't top-post]
    >

    > > Thanks for the reply. Here is further information pursuant to the
    > > questions
    > > you asked:
    > >

    > >> What error messages are you getting?
    > > * The error I get when I try to install the program goes as follows: The
    > > version of this file is not compatible with the version of Windows you're
    > > running. Check your computer system's information to see whether you need
    > > an
    > > x86 (32 bit) or x64 (64 bit) version of the program and then contact the
    > > provider.
    >
    > Ah, but that's not what you reported! You said that Vista was refusing to
    > install the app - in fact, it's the app's installer that is refusing to
    > install itself on your version of Vista. That may sound pedantic, but the
    > two scenarios are not the same thing at all...
    >

    > >> How are you trying to install it?
    > > * I put a CD into the drive and click OK on the AutoPlay dialog. Then the
    > > message pops up
    >
    > So what happens when you cancel AutoPlay and try to install the app as
    > Administrator?
    >

    > > I was aware that a VM is not very different from a real computer
    >
    > A VM *IS* a real computer - this is absolutely fundamental. The fact that it
    > is made of software and not hardware is completely irrelevant.
    >

    > > I am not a network savvy person and have never known how a client asks a
    > > server to
    > > run a program residing on the server. So, that is my main concern here.
    > > How do I get
    > > the host to signal the guest to start a program?
    >
    > Again, without wishing to be dismissive, the same way as you would get one
    > physical machine to start a program on another physical machine - nothing to
    > do with Virtual PC per se. How you will *actually* go about doing this will
    > depend on what the remote process is, whether it provides any sort of
    > interface for remote launch, whether it runs as a service etc... E.g. if SQL
    > Server stops running on a remote server, it's possible for an administrator
    > to start it up again remotely - but only because SQL Server provides a
    > mechanism for this sort of remote control...
    >
    >
    > --
    > Mark Rae
    > ASP.NET MVP
    > http://www.markrae.net
    >
    >

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    FACE Guest

    Re: Total fresh virgin newbie question

    On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:38:07 -0700, in microsoft.public.virtualpc,
    JonWayn <JonWayn@xxxxxx>, wrote

    >I doubt this little program provides any specific mechanism to be controlled
    >or launched remotely. A little more details than I gave before: I run a
    >number of MSAccess databases. Each database, after doing her magic with the
    >data contained, exports the data to a text file and then uses Shell or
    >ShellExecute to launch this program that we are talking about, then from
    >Access, I detect the presence of the new window with API calls and use its
    >menu system to get the window to act on the exported file. Of course, that
    >was the scenario before I got Vista. So, basically, all I have is the path to
    >this program's executable. It takes no arguments. Armed with just that, is
    >there a way to send a file's path from one computer to another on the same
    >network? Actually, if you could tell me how to send any old piece of
    >information over a network, I should be able to figure out from there how to
    >detect the presence of it on the receiving computer and do what I need to do
    >upon its arrival.
    Can your first program work on shared access drive network files?

    FACE


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    JonWayn Guest

    Re: Total fresh virgin newbie question

    Normally, with the old program, you open it, select a menu command that
    brings up the File/Open dialog, navigate that dialog to a file somewhere (the
    program couldnt care less where), then finally hit some button to gt it to
    act on that file. At the end it throws a dialog to indicate completion of its
    action. Throughout its action, which may take seconds or minutes depending on
    the size of the file it imports, my Access database is periodically sniffing
    for the completion dialog that this program throws through a form's timer
    event. That brings me to another issue: is it possible to send API messages
    across the network and how? To directly answer your question, yes, or I am
    pretty sure, that the program would be able to read shared folders. However,
    just for my edification, what is the mechanism for sending bits from one
    computer to another through the network? As I said earlier, I am a network
    novice. We all use it everyday just by using the internet but I was never
    concerned before about the underworkings of data transfer. Now I am

    "FACE" wrote:

    > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:38:07 -0700, in microsoft.public.virtualpc,
    > JonWayn <JonWayn@xxxxxx>, wrote
    >

    > >I doubt this little program provides any specific mechanism to be controlled
    > >or launched remotely. A little more details than I gave before: I run a
    > >number of MSAccess databases. Each database, after doing her magic with the
    > >data contained, exports the data to a text file and then uses Shell or
    > >ShellExecute to launch this program that we are talking about, then from
    > >Access, I detect the presence of the new window with API calls and use its
    > >menu system to get the window to act on the exported file. Of course, that
    > >was the scenario before I got Vista. So, basically, all I have is the path to
    > >this program's executable. It takes no arguments. Armed with just that, is
    > >there a way to send a file's path from one computer to another on the same
    > >network? Actually, if you could tell me how to send any old piece of
    > >information over a network, I should be able to figure out from there how to
    > >detect the presence of it on the receiving computer and do what I need to do
    > >upon its arrival.
    >
    > Can your first program work on shared access drive network files?
    >
    > FACE
    >
    >

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    FACE Guest

    Re: Total fresh virgin newbie question

    On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:01:03 -0700, in microsoft.public.virtualpc,
    JonWayn <JonWayn@xxxxxx>, wrote

    >Normally, with the old program, you open it, select a menu command that
    >brings up the File/Open dialog, navigate that dialog to a file somewhere (the
    >program couldnt care less where), then finally hit some button to gt it to
    >act on that file. At the end it throws a dialog to indicate completion of its
    >action. Throughout its action, which may take seconds or minutes depending on
    >the size of the file it imports, my Access database is periodically sniffing
    >for the completion dialog that this program throws through a form's timer
    >event. That brings me to another issue: is it possible to send API messages
    >across the network and how? To directly answer your question, yes, or I am
    >pretty sure, that the program would be able to read shared folders. However,
    >just for my edification, what is the mechanism for sending bits from one
    >computer to another through the network? As I said earlier, I am a network
    >novice. We all use it everyday just by using the internet but I was never
    >concerned before about the underworkings of data transfer. Now I am


    Well I see that you knew exactly what I was getting at -- running both
    programs in the VM and using a shared folder which would be the location
    of your MSAccess files. As far as starting the VM and the program, that
    would be a single click situation with the VM pulled from the VPC console
    to the desktop and the VM having the program in it's start file. (launched
    in the VM with the VM.) I have watched the progress of your situation
    since this morning and am pretty much thinking you will need a remote
    desktop type application to actually send commands to the VM and remain in
    the host. I am very light on networking between workgroups myself. I am
    sure that other's here have experience in that though.....

    I will say that with the little that I do know that Server may best fit
    the approach you outline and may be the best vehicle.

    I admit I wonder why you might not take the approach of bumping the VM
    from the host desktop and running both programs in the VM with a shared
    folder of your MSAccess files, though -- it would just be another
    window.............

    FACE




    >
    >"FACE" wrote:
    >

    >> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:38:07 -0700, in microsoft.public.virtualpc,
    >> JonWayn <JonWayn@xxxxxx>, wrote
    >>

    >> >I doubt this little program provides any specific mechanism to be controlled
    >> >or launched remotely. A little more details than I gave before: I run a
    >> >number of MSAccess databases. Each database, after doing her magic with the
    >> >data contained, exports the data to a text file and then uses Shell or
    >> >ShellExecute to launch this program that we are talking about, then from
    >> >Access, I detect the presence of the new window with API calls and use its
    >> >menu system to get the window to act on the exported file. Of course, that
    >> >was the scenario before I got Vista. So, basically, all I have is the path to
    >> >this program's executable. It takes no arguments. Armed with just that, is
    >> >there a way to send a file's path from one computer to another on the same
    >> >network? Actually, if you could tell me how to send any old piece of
    >> >information over a network, I should be able to figure out from there how to
    >> >detect the presence of it on the receiving computer and do what I need to do
    >> >upon its arrival.
    >>
    >> Can your first program work on shared access drive network files?
    >>
    >> FACE
    >>
    >>

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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