The support documentation points to three ways of (remotely) administering a
Hyper-V Server machine. Is it not possible to bootstrap a system such that it
can be managed from a VM on the server itself? It's my (perhaps flawed?)
understanding that the Hyper-V service starts automatically, and that VMs can
be configured to start and stop automatically with the service; in that case,
wouldn't it be necessary only to copy (or create) a VM/VHD on the server and
start it, and then manage the system from within?

Please let me know where I'm missing something.

You can't create the VM initially. There is no way to actually create a VM,
or import it, or otherwise do anything with it, without an external
management interface, since the Hyper-V Server doesn't include any GUI
support - it's basically Windows Server Core.

Once you've created a VM, you could set it to autostart, and manage the
Hyper-V Server from there. And if nothing goes wrong, that will work just
fine. BUT, if there's a problem that causes your management VM to not start,
you're back to needing an external management PC to sort that out.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news69B68D7-FE9D-4668-983B-0B12AAAE5140@xxxxxx

> The support documentation points to three ways of (remotely) administering
> a
> Hyper-V Server machine. Is it not possible to bootstrap a system such that
> it
> can be managed from a VM on the server itself? It's my (perhaps flawed?)
> understanding that the Hyper-V service starts automatically, and that VMs
> can
> be configured to start and stop automatically with the service; in that
> case,
> wouldn't it be necessary only to copy (or create) a VM/VHD on the server
> and
> start it, and then manage the system from within?
>
> Please let me know where I'm missing something.

Ah. That makes sense, thanks for taking the time. I've seen the configuration
interface screenshots and assumed there was both (1) access to a full command
interpreter and (2) a server service (or FTP service, or equivalent) for
getting the VM file(s) onto the server.

"Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

> You can't create the VM initially. There is no way to actually create a VM,
> or import it, or otherwise do anything with it, without an external
> management interface, since the Hyper-V Server doesn't include any GUI
> support - it's basically Windows Server Core.
>
> Once you've created a VM, you could set it to autostart, and manage the
> Hyper-V Server from there. And if nothing goes wrong, that will work just
> fine. BUT, if there's a problem that causes your management VM to not start,
> you're back to needing an external management PC to sort that out.
>
> --
> Charlie.
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
>
> "JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news69B68D7-FE9D-4668-983B-0B12AAAE5140@xxxxxx

> > The support documentation points to three ways of (remotely) administering
> > a
> > Hyper-V Server machine. Is it not possible to bootstrap a system such that
> > it
> > can be managed from a VM on the server itself? It's my (perhaps flawed?)
> > understanding that the Hyper-V service starts automatically, and that VMs
> > can
> > be configured to start and stop automatically with the service; in that
> > case,
> > wouldn't it be necessary only to copy (or create) a VM/VHD on the server
> > and
> > start it, and then manage the system from within?
> >
> > Please let me know where I'm missing something.

>
>

There is a full CMD, but it doesn't know from Hyper-V. And yes, you can
transfer files - that's not an issue.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:A51E2EE7-249E-4BE3-A5D2-6AA15E978A8F@xxxxxx

> Ah. That makes sense, thanks for taking the time. I've seen the
> configuration
> interface screenshots and assumed there was both (1) access to a full
> command
> interpreter and (2) a server service (or FTP service, or equivalent) for
> getting the VM file(s) onto the server.
>
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
>

>> You can't create the VM initially. There is no way to actually create a
>> VM,
>> or import it, or otherwise do anything with it, without an external
>> management interface, since the Hyper-V Server doesn't include any GUI
>> support - it's basically Windows Server Core.
>>
>> Once you've created a VM, you could set it to autostart, and manage the
>> Hyper-V Server from there. And if nothing goes wrong, that will work just
>> fine. BUT, if there's a problem that causes your management VM to not
>> start,
>> you're back to needing an external management PC to sort that out.
>>
>> --
>> Charlie.
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
>>
>> "JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news69B68D7-FE9D-4668-983B-0B12AAAE5140@xxxxxx

>> > The support documentation points to three ways of (remotely)
>> > administering
>> > a
>> > Hyper-V Server machine. Is it not possible to bootstrap a system such
>> > that
>> > it
>> > can be managed from a VM on the server itself? It's my (perhaps
>> > flawed?)
>> > understanding that the Hyper-V service starts automatically, and that
>> > VMs
>> > can
>> > be configured to start and stop automatically with the service; in that
>> > case,
>> > wouldn't it be necessary only to copy (or create) a VM/VHD on the
>> > server
>> > and
>> > start it, and then manage the system from within?
>> >
>> > Please let me know where I'm missing something.

>>
>>

I misunderstood your reply, then. You say you can transfer files, and I've
read that there's WMI scripting support: pardon my ignorance, what more would
I need?

"Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:

> There is a full CMD, but it doesn't know from Hyper-V. And yes, you can
> transfer files - that's not an issue.
>
> --
> Charlie.
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
>
> "JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:A51E2EE7-249E-4BE3-A5D2-6AA15E978A8F@xxxxxx

> > Ah. That makes sense, thanks for taking the time. I've seen the
> > configuration
> > interface screenshots and assumed there was both (1) access to a full
> > command
> > interpreter and (2) a server service (or FTP service, or equivalent) for
> > getting the VM file(s) onto the server.
> >
> > "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
> >

> >> You can't create the VM initially. There is no way to actually create a
> >> VM,
> >> or import it, or otherwise do anything with it, without an external
> >> management interface, since the Hyper-V Server doesn't include any GUI
> >> support - it's basically Windows Server Core.
> >>
> >> Once you've created a VM, you could set it to autostart, and manage the
> >> Hyper-V Server from there. And if nothing goes wrong, that will work just
> >> fine. BUT, if there's a problem that causes your management VM to not
> >> start,
> >> you're back to needing an external management PC to sort that out.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Charlie.
> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
> >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
> >>
> >> "JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news69B68D7-FE9D-4668-983B-0B12AAAE5140@xxxxxx
> >> > The support documentation points to three ways of (remotely)
> >> > administering
> >> > a
> >> > Hyper-V Server machine. Is it not possible to bootstrap a system such
> >> > that
> >> > it
> >> > can be managed from a VM on the server itself? It's my (perhaps
> >> > flawed?)
> >> > understanding that the Hyper-V service starts automatically, and that
> >> > VMs
> >> > can
> >> > be configured to start and stop automatically with the service; in that
> >> > case,
> >> > wouldn't it be necessary only to copy (or create) a VM/VHD on the
> >> > server
> >> > and
> >> > start it, and then manage the system from within?
> >> >
> >> > Please let me know where I'm missing something.
> >>
> >>

>
>

well, yes, there is WMI support. You can write scripts to do what you need.
But there's no direct command line creation of a VM short of WMI. Nor is
there PowerShell available inside the Hyper-V Server. So, for me, that means
running the Hyper-V Manager on a standalone machine. Not something I
consider a problem.

As for file transfers - standard windows networking should handle that fine.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:34B7D823-F784-4D65-832F-5DCC9B3FF665@xxxxxx

>I misunderstood your reply, then. You say you can transfer files, and I've
> read that there's WMI scripting support: pardon my ignorance, what more
> would
> I need?
>
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
>

>> There is a full CMD, but it doesn't know from Hyper-V. And yes, you
>> can
>> transfer files - that's not an issue.
>>
>> --
>> Charlie.
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
>>
>> "JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:A51E2EE7-249E-4BE3-A5D2-6AA15E978A8F@xxxxxx

>> > Ah. That makes sense, thanks for taking the time. I've seen the
>> > configuration
>> > interface screenshots and assumed there was both (1) access to a full
>> > command
>> > interpreter and (2) a server service (or FTP service, or equivalent)
>> > for
>> > getting the VM file(s) onto the server.
>> >
>> > "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
>> >
>> >> You can't create the VM initially. There is no way to actually create
>> >> a
>> >> VM,
>> >> or import it, or otherwise do anything with it, without an external
>> >> management interface, since the Hyper-V Server doesn't include any GUI
>> >> support - it's basically Windows Server Core.
>> >>
>> >> Once you've created a VM, you could set it to autostart, and manage
>> >> the
>> >> Hyper-V Server from there. And if nothing goes wrong, that will work
>> >> just
>> >> fine. BUT, if there's a problem that causes your management VM to not
>> >> start,
>> >> you're back to needing an external management PC to sort that out.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Charlie.
>> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
>> >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
>> >>
>> >> "JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in
>> >> message
>> >> news69B68D7-FE9D-4668-983B-0B12AAAE5140@xxxxxx
>> >> > The support documentation points to three ways of (remotely)
>> >> > administering
>> >> > a
>> >> > Hyper-V Server machine. Is it not possible to bootstrap a system
>> >> > such
>> >> > that
>> >> > it
>> >> > can be managed from a VM on the server itself? It's my (perhaps
>> >> > flawed?)
>> >> > understanding that the Hyper-V service starts automatically, and
>> >> > that
>> >> > VMs
>> >> > can
>> >> > be configured to start and stop automatically with the service; in
>> >> > that
>> >> > case,
>> >> > wouldn't it be necessary only to copy (or create) a VM/VHD on the
>> >> > server
>> >> > and
>> >> > start it, and then manage the system from within?
>> >> >
>> >> > Please let me know where I'm missing something.
>> >>
>> >>

>>
>>

Well, the original question was, "is it possible," not "is it smart" or "is
it likely" or "is this the best way to do it." I wanted to know only if it
was technically possible to do what I described (and, hopefully, how, if
possible). That one answer, answered definitively, could help me decide
whether I need to (for instance) go to the effort of bringing up a second
test system to evaluate the first (as the documentation, which I referenced,
suggests).

I've read (in reverse order), "you can't," "you can but it might be hard,"
and "you shouldn't." If I'd asked opinions on how Hyper-V should me managed
in a production environment or how you might end up using it yourself, those
would be fine, helpful answers, but as answers to a simple, "But can it be
done?" they're not helpful, as I don't know any more than I did when I asked
the question originally.

Please, it's perfectly fine to let others answer if you don't know
DEFINITIVELY the answer to a question. I appreciate your efforts, but I'm
back to the starting line.

"Ryan Sokolowski [MVP]" wrote:

> I agree with Charlie. Hyper-V server will be most heavily used in
> environments where lots will be deployed for utility purposes...running VMs
> efficiently. That said, this automatically leads to the concept of remotely
> managing these many servers from a single separate administrative console
> (preferably at your desk, where you have a comfortable chair, some coffee
> and no deafening server fan noise to shout over). :-)
>
> --
> Ryan Sokolowski
> MVP - Clustering
> MCT, MCITP x3, MCTS x7, MCSE x2, CCNA, CCDA, BCFP
>
>
> "Charlie Russel - MVP" <charlie@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:u%235OHRKKJHA.4940@xxxxxx

> > well, yes, there is WMI support. You can write scripts to do what you
> > need. But there's no direct command line creation of a VM short of WMI.
> > Nor is there PowerShell available inside the Hyper-V Server. So, for me,
> > that means running the Hyper-V Manager on a standalone machine. Not
> > something I consider a problem.
> >
> > As for file transfers - standard windows networking should handle that
> > fine.
> >
> > --
> > Charlie.
> > http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
> >
> > "JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:34B7D823-F784-4D65-832F-5DCC9B3FF665@xxxxxx

> >>I misunderstood your reply, then. You say you can transfer files, and I've
> >> read that there's WMI scripting support: pardon my ignorance, what more
> >> would
> >> I need?
> >>
> >> "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
> >>
> >>> There is a full CMD, but it doesn't know from Hyper-V. And yes, you
> >>> can
> >>> transfer files - that's not an issue.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Charlie.
> >>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
> >>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
> >>>
> >>> "JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> >>> news:A51E2EE7-249E-4BE3-A5D2-6AA15E978A8F@xxxxxx
> >>> > Ah. That makes sense, thanks for taking the time. I've seen the
> >>> > configuration
> >>> > interface screenshots and assumed there was both (1) access to a full
> >>> > command
> >>> > interpreter and (2) a server service (or FTP service, or equivalent)
> >>> > for
> >>> > getting the VM file(s) onto the server.
> >>> >
> >>> > "Charlie Russel - MVP" wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> You can't create the VM initially. There is no way to actually create
> >>> >> a
> >>> >> VM,
> >>> >> or import it, or otherwise do anything with it, without an external
> >>> >> management interface, since the Hyper-V Server doesn't include any
> >>> >> GUI
> >>> >> support - it's basically Windows Server Core.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Once you've created a VM, you could set it to autostart, and manage
> >>> >> the
> >>> >> Hyper-V Server from there. And if nothing goes wrong, that will work
> >>> >> just
> >>> >> fine. BUT, if there's a problem that causes your management VM to not
> >>> >> start,
> >>> >> you're back to needing an external management PC to sort that out.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> Charlie.
> >>> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
> >>> >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
> >>> >>
> >>> >> "JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in
> >>> >> message
> >>> >> news69B68D7-FE9D-4668-983B-0B12AAAE5140@xxxxxx
> >>> >> > The support documentation points to three ways of (remotely)
> >>> >> > administering
> >>> >> > a
> >>> >> > Hyper-V Server machine. Is it not possible to bootstrap a system
> >>> >> > such
> >>> >> > that
> >>> >> > it
> >>> >> > can be managed from a VM on the server itself? It's my (perhaps
> >>> >> > flawed?)
> >>> >> > understanding that the Hyper-V service starts automatically, and
> >>> >> > that
> >>> >> > VMs
> >>> >> > can
> >>> >> > be configured to start and stop automatically with the service; in
> >>> >> > that
> >>> >> > case,
> >>> >> > wouldn't it be necessary only to copy (or create) a VM/VHD on the
> >>> >> > server
> >>> >> > and
> >>> >> > start it, and then manage the system from within?
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Please let me know where I'm missing something.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>>

> >

>

A VM is more than a VHD. You'd need to know enough WMI to configure a VM to
use that VHD.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"JimmyKumbaya" <JimmyKumbaya@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news69B68D7-FE9D-4668-983B-0B12AAAE5140@xxxxxx

> The support documentation points to three ways of (remotely) administering
> a
> Hyper-V Server machine. Is it not possible to bootstrap a system such that
> it
> can be managed from a VM on the server itself? It's my (perhaps flawed?)
> understanding that the Hyper-V service starts automatically, and that VMs
> can
> be configured to start and stop automatically with the service; in that
> case,
> wouldn't it be necessary only to copy (or create) a VM/VHD on the server
> and
> start it, and then manage the system from within?
>
> Please let me know where I'm missing something.