Vista - Administrator Account

I know what you are trying to say, and I really don't mind the security. My
problem is that I don't seem to be acknowledged as the ADMINSTRATOR account
that I am. "Administrator/David-PC" Just let me sign in as I should and I'll
be pleased.

David
"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:20:33 -0800, David Johnson <David
>
> >Seems I have the same problems as many users out there. I am the ONLY user
> >on my computer and I can't do many tasks I enjoyed on past versions of
> >Windows because I have to ask the "Administrator" to do t for me. I get
> >enough of that on the Job.
>
> Yup, this is because the NT security model was developed for corporate
> networks, and has inappropriately been dropped into place as-is when
> NT was pushed at "the rest of us" as XP.
>
> The NT model ASSumes each user will do a narrowly-defined range of
> permitted activities, as befitting their job description. That's fine
> when you are being paid to do only work-related things on the
> company's PC, but it becomes inappropriate when you own your own PC.
>
>
> You may have avoided this problem in XP by simply running as
> administrator all the time, but that undermines much of the security
> that XP may have been able to offer you.
>
> Because consumers didn't take to using limited user accounts, and
> pretending to be someone else when they wanted to admin thier own PC,
> the software vendors catering for consumers didn't bother to embrace
> the NT security model either. So games, accounting packages, etc. all
> required you to have admin rights in order for their software to work.
>
> So it's "chicken and egg"; no-one in consumerland runs with less than
> admin rights because their sware won't work, and no sware vendor
> writres for reduced rights because everyone runs as admin anyway.
>
> The result; consumerland misses out on most of NT's security
> protection, and gets shot to pieces by malware. The aggregate
> firepower of consumer broadband, coupled with rampant malware
> infection, leads to huge botnets that act as massive wild virtual
> servers, currently carrying 95% of spam and being used as hacking and
> DDoS tools against businesses and so on.
>
>
> Vista tries to make NT security available to users who have not
> embraced the "let's all pretend to be corporate serfs" model, i.e.
> most of us, by retrofitting some of these protections to user accounts
> that are set up with admin rights.
>
> IMO, this is a great idea, and I also see in Vista the beginnings of a
> move away from dumbo account-based rights (where everything that
> happens in a logon session gets the same rights as you) towards more
> consumer-appropriate per-program rights (e.g. IE 7 runs with less
> rights than you do, thus limiting the harm web sites can do, and
> programs have to ask you for permission to do admin things).
>
>
> Ironically, Vista is seen as inflicting the NT user rights model on
> consumers even as it moves away from this model, because for many of
> us, it is the first time we've ever had to think about "admin rights".
>
> It may be new to us, but folks from other platforms (MacOS, Linux)
> that pride themselves on being "more secure" see these prompts all the
> time, often with password required. This process is pointed to as one
> reason why these platforms are "more secure", whereas the same prompts
> in Vista are complained about as being a meaningless nuisance.
>
>
> >I am running Vista Home Premium. The latest "you can't do that!"
> >involved installing my printer software and I'm told I can't use "Run
> >as..". I must log off and log in as Administrator or else have the
> >Administrator do it for me. I am at home for god's sake! I am the only
> >user. Sorry but I am frustrated. Did I miss something at install and would
> >it be easier to just reinstall? Please help.
>
> DON'T "just" re-install.
>
> Consider that these alerts become highly valuable when they pop up
> unexpectedly, when sware running without your knowledge is trying to
> rip into the system behind your back.
>
> Think of this as like the discreet "beep" you hear from your home
> burglar alarm every time you open a door to the outside of your house.
> When it isn't you that's opening that door, then you may *really* want
> to know that that is happening.
>
>
>
> >--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
> Saws are too hard to use.
> Be easier to use!
> >--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
>

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:14:07 -0800, buyslake

>Here is a more detail.

I loooove detail :-)

>I am having several owner permissions rights problems with
>Windows Vista. I upgraded my Dell XPS M1210 to Windows
>Vista from Windows XP Media Center addition on 2/14/2007.

Now this raises an interesting potential problem pattern that may
apply wherever Vista has been installed as an OS upgrade.

A more generic form of this pattern can be stated like this...

When you install Vista, and then drivers and apps, the installation
process will "vet" these. Known-incompatible stuff won't be
installed, and where the installer auto-selects between different code
and options for different OSs, it will do so for Vista.

When you installed XP, this process would have ensured that everything
is selected and set up for XP. When you then upgrade to Vista, you
inherit a code base that is XP-OK, but not neceissarily Vista-OK, and
Vista doesn't have the opportunity to "vet" anything.

The more specific variant of this is...

When you install Vista, Vista's security model and UAC will vet what
can be installed or written where. Installers and apps will not be
allowed to do certain things, so these protected things will be free
of any app or driver footpring there. Apps and drivers that insist on
such access simply won't install or won't work.

When you installed these apps and drivers in XP, Vista's protections
weren't in effect, so material may be present within Vista's protected
spaces. Now Vista's protections bvecome particularly vexing, because
you can't get at those protected spaces to clear out a footprint that
should never have been allowed there in the first place.

>I set up myself as the administrator. I am the administrator account.
>However, on several occasions now I am unable to remove software, reinstall
>software, install drivers etc. because it says I do not have permissions and
>I need to re-logon as administrator.

>For example I installed a Cannon Selphy CP730 compact printer driver while
>it was in Windows XP mode. Now I want to upgrade that driver to newer driver
>supplied by Cannon for Windows Vista. The cannon rep advised me to delete
>the registry entry for the printer. However I am not able to give myself
>full rights and delete. I looked to see who the owner is, it says
>Administrators. Now I am the Administrator but not the AdministratorS.

Rights are assigned to groups, which are cataegories of users that
have a modifiable template of rights assigned to each.

The addministrators group contains all user accounts that are created
or assigned as members of that group. If you give a user account
"admin rights", it will prolly become a member of this group.

In addition, XP had a single dedicated "Administrator" account that
generally wasn't used outside Safe Mode. This particular account
could sometimes do things the AdministratorS group can't.

Vista brings its own value to the party, and how this shakes up the XP
Admin account thing, I don't know. As a non-corporate tech, I
generally try to avoid having anything to do with user accounts; they
are invaluable in pro-IT big-network settings, but in consumerland
they just seem to be more hassle than they're worth.

As you've installed Vista over XP, you may have inherited a mix of XP
and Vista account rights and logic. Un-fun, if that's the case.

>How did this administrators account get on my computer?

It's a group, not an account - a template of rights that can be
applied to user accounts. XP Home casts a few of these templates in
stone; XP Pro gives you the flexibility to edit these as well as
create new group rights templates of your own.

>I did a Belarc Advisor analysis on the computer and it shows there is
>an Adminstrator account that is marked as locked. I understand I can not
>lock or unlock an account with Windows Vista Home Premium.

OK - that's prolly the XP Administrator account that Vista inherited.
Vista either creates such an account and locks it, or it doesn't
create such an account at all, and has locked the XP account that it
found when installing as an upgrade.

A lot of this stuff is surely known, but alas not by me. Check out
Microsoft's pages on Vista administration, such as TechNet, MSDN, etc.
as there should be rigorous documentation there.

>Could someone please tell me how to get rid of the Administrators account
>and give myself (the owner of the pc and the person who set everything up)
>the rights to remove/install programs or edit the registry!

I hope so; the above is all I can offer :-/

>I am unable to use my printer, connect my ipaq, run adobe professional
>reinstall, etc. because of this.

>This is unbelieveable, it is my computer, I purchased windows vista, loaded
>my software and yet I am not the owner? And it will not give me any control.
>This really upsets me, what is wrong with windows vista? How did this other
>administrators account appear and take control of programs and owns them?

Good questions - if this is a typical outcome, then we have doors to
pound, else if it is not the typical outcome, we need to look at how
your particular upgrade process brought you here.

Maybe the bottom line is the same as it's usually been: Do NOT upgrade
an existing installation to a new Windows version?



>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:39:03 -0800, David Johnson

>I know what you are trying to say, and I really don't mind the security. My
>problem is that I don't seem to be acknowledged as the ADMINSTRATOR account
>that I am. "Administrator/David-PC" Just let me sign in as I should and I'll
>be pleased.

Heh - I just re-read an earlier post and replied from a completely
different perspective :-)

I think when I read it last time, I didn't catch the whole XP
Administrator account angle, or that this was a Vista-over-XP install.

So we're on the R(etry) of the ARF <g>



>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Basically the same issue here.

It's difficult to install software at times because I don't have the
permissions on my own machine. In terms of usability, very disruptive and
frustrating. Security issues aside, perhaps different means of security
would be beneficial.

Dan

You may have an incompatible program that is not requesting rights properly.
Have you tried contacting the vender?

"Daniel Côté" wrote:

> Basically the same issue here.
>
> It's difficult to install software at times because I don't have the
> permissions on my own machine. In terms of usability, very disruptive and
> frustrating. Security issues aside, perhaps different means of security
> would be beneficial.
>
> Dan

I feel your pain. I installed the program why am I not administrator enough
to delete it? Can someone give me a simple step by step instruction on what
to do?

"buyslake" wrote:

> I have the same problem and I am not very happy. I have several programs
> that tell me I can't uninstall or install because I do not have sufficient
> priviledges to change. It tells me to log on as administrator. I am the
> adminstrator and I have administrator priviledges. I also turned off user
> account control and I still get the same error! I uninstalled Adobe Acobe
> Professional because it kept wanting to reconfigure itself everytime I turned
> on the computer. Now I installed that program before I upgraded to vista a
> week before in the Windows XP environment. I did a home premium vista
> upgrade.
>
> What is the solution to this Microsoft? I can not uninstall my bluetooth
> drivers or upgrade them either. Just yesterday I installed them using the
> new drivers for vista and they installed and set up fine, today my it
> detected my ipaq via bluetooth and it wants the bluetooth driver but it will
> not update them because it says I do not have priviledges and I need to log
> on as administrator. Thats funny, I am the administrator and I installed
> the drivers fine yesterday!
>
> Wow, I am am really angry I switched to vista, I don't see much advantage
> and I have had 3 days of pure hell trying to resolve all the issues.!!!
> Please help!
>
> "Joshua" wrote:
>
> > try disabling the uac (user account control) that will solve most problems
> > and if you still can't install or do the run as... try switching your account
> > type to administator.
> >
> > "David Johnson" wrote:
> >
> > > Seems I have the same problems as many users out there. I am the ONLY user
> > > on my computer and I can't do many tasks I enjoyed on past versions of
> > > Windows because I have to ask the "Administrator" to do t for me. I get
> > > enough of that on the Job. I am running Vista Home Premium. The latest "you
> > > can't do that!" involved installing my printer software and I'm told I can't
> > > use "Run as..". I must log off and log in as Administrator or else have the
> > > Administrator do it for me. I am at home for god's sake! I am the only
> > > user. Sorry but I am frustrated. Did I miss something at install and would
> > > it be easier to just reinstall? Please help.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >

Similar problem. I'm trying to add a printer from another computer on my work
group and as soon as I press 'add printer' I get a message that says I don't
have sufficient rights to do this. How do I get the rights?

"bp" wrote:

>
> You may have an incompatible program that is not requesting rights properly.
> Have you tried contacting the vender?
>
> "Daniel Côté" wrote:
>
> > Basically the same issue here.
> >
> > It's difficult to install software at times because I don't have the
> > permissions on my own machine. In terms of usability, very disruptive and
> > frustrating. Security issues aside, perhaps different means of security
> > would be beneficial.
> >
> > Dan

I am another person that is NOT happy with Vista however I had the premium
and upgraded to Ultimate now ACCESS DENIED is jumping up everywhere,then
these parameter incorrect or corrupted messages started.the people on the
network rolled my premium up and put it in a file and did what they called a
clean install.It worked for one day and I have hit every FAQ,posting
place,have ask windows & microsoft.they have a tech working on it no word
from him in over 24hrs.
People tell me to open User Accounts I have tried The only thing I haven't
tried is TNT I go C:\ access denied .go control panel user accounts
properties security(tab) advance then its Betty-PC administrator , System ,
Betty-PC and then everybody when I press the OWNERS tab guess who? Systems
is
the owner.????
I seem to remember paying for the computer and the upgrade.Help me if you
can I will try almost anything.(been told what to do with it NOT NICE.)

I can not download,update or even open a file. At the log-in window where
you put your password it says locked but lets me in ????

--
bettyboopsblue


"David Johnson" wrote:

> Seems I have the same problems as many users out there. I am the ONLY user
> on my computer and I can't do many tasks I enjoyed on past versions of
> Windows because I have to ask the "Administrator" to do t for me. I get
> enough of that on the Job. I am running Vista Home Premium. The latest "you
> can't do that!" involved installing my printer software and I'm told I can't
> use "Run as..". I must log off and log in as Administrator or else have the
> Administrator do it for me. I am at home for god's sake! I am the only
> user. Sorry but I am frustrated. Did I miss something at install and would
> it be easier to just reinstall? Please help.
>
> David
>
>

It seems there is a common problem here. When I was working I was for a time
"Adminstrator" using NT4 so I should be used to admin rights. I am confused
that Vista will not allow me to repair MS Outlook which has gone fatal: it is
a complete denial of entry, not even asking for the admin password.
--
Stan Counsell


"Daniel Côté" wrote:

Hi Stan

In Vista, administrator accounts are different from the traditional admin
accounts you may have been used to working with in previous versions of
windows.

A normal, user created, admin account has 2 separate tokens. Standard User
and Administrator. The account runs with the Standard User Token at all
times, unless a program needs to perform a function that requires admin
privileges. At this point the program either requests admin privileges or
UAC detects the need for admin privileges and you are presented with a
dialog that requests the privilege elevation. The benefit is that you can
operate in the relative safer environment of a standard user and still have
the power of the admin account that can be easily invoked. This gives you
complete power to either allow or deny any program that tries to gain system
wide access.

The problem is that some older older programs, that were designed with a
traditional admin account in mind, will either not function properly or
throw error messages if it cannot access restricted areas of the OS.

This can usually be overcome by starting and running the program as
administrator, if you decide that it is safe to do so.

Getting to Know User Account Control: MVP Article of the Month - October
2006:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/com...vp/sv1006.mspx


--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User


"Stan CounsellS" <StanCounsellS@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:7469D382-1288-4797-9A2B-8F1FCB47CFA8@xxxxxx