Windows Vista Forums

Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access
  1. #1


    ativar Guest

    Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access

    Downloaded APC Power Chute update for VISTA. Wanted to save this into
    Program Files - Denied Access as administrator. Well, guess what, I am the
    ADMINISTRATOR! I could not save this update anywhere except PUBLIC folder.
    Why is this? Who has the right to administrator action when I'm signed on as
    the sole administrator of this account? This is very irritating.



      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    kevincc Guest

    RE: Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access

    I'm having the same problem. I can't mofiy files in the Program Files
    directory or my root (C:\) drive. I am an administrator. Why can't I modify
    files?

    "ativar" wrote:

    > Downloaded APC Power Chute update for VISTA. Wanted to save this into
    > Program Files - Denied Access as administrator. Well, guess what, I am the
    > ADMINISTRATOR! I could not save this update anywhere except PUBLIC folder.
    > Why is this? Who has the right to administrator action when I'm signed on as
    > the sole administrator of this account? This is very irritating.


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access

    Hello,

    In Windows Vista, even though you are an administrator, the programs that
    run on your computer are not allowed to use your administrator power unless:

    1- They prompt you for permission
    2- You explicitly give them permission (right-click, run as administrator)

    The files in Program Files and your root C drive are not writiable by
    non-administrative programs because the files in these areas affect every
    user and the entire system.

    Allowing unpriviliged programs write access to these areas would allow them
    to overwrite/replace well-known programs or system-wide configuration data
    used by windows or well-known programs, which is unacceptable for a program
    that does not prompt.

    The easiest way to accomplish what you are doing is to save the file to some
    place in your user profile (such as documents), and then using windows
    explorer, move that file to program files. This will end up prompting you
    for permission and then allowing things to work.

    Alternatively, you can run the program that is doing the downloading "as
    administrator" by right-clicking it and clicking Run As Administrator, and
    this will allow it to save to this area, but the solution above is better.

    --
    - JB
    Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User

    Windows Vista Support Faq
    http://www.jimmah.com/vista/


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    ativar Guest

    Re: Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access


    Thanks Jimmy. I did exactly that, save and then move. However, it is
    frustrating to be an 'administrator' but not have administrator powers to
    work with my own system as I see fit, not as MS determines how it should be
    run! I'm not into programming, I'm HR, and need to be able to make
    corrections etc. to things within my 'control'. This is not possible with
    the new "ask your administrator", safety and security that MS has imposed
    upon us. I realize that registry etc. are proprietery, and that I need not
    be able to access these, and accept that. But being unable to save to a
    folder within the Program Files is just not acceptable! My time and effort
    are worth just as much, and I don't need to spend it working around something
    that hinders MY ability to do MY job.

    Red


    "Jimmy Brush" wrote:

    > Hello,
    >
    > In Windows Vista, even though you are an administrator, the programs that
    > run on your computer are not allowed to use your administrator power unless:
    >
    > 1- They prompt you for permission
    > 2- You explicitly give them permission (right-click, run as administrator)
    >
    > The files in Program Files and your root C drive are not writiable by
    > non-administrative programs because the files in these areas affect every
    > user and the entire system.
    >
    > Allowing unpriviliged programs write access to these areas would allow them
    > to overwrite/replace well-known programs or system-wide configuration data
    > used by windows or well-known programs, which is unacceptable for a program
    > that does not prompt.
    >
    > The easiest way to accomplish what you are doing is to save the file to some
    > place in your user profile (such as documents), and then using windows
    > explorer, move that file to program files. This will end up prompting you
    > for permission and then allowing things to work.
    >
    > Alternatively, you can run the program that is doing the downloading "as
    > administrator" by right-clicking it and clicking Run As Administrator, and
    > this will allow it to save to this area, but the solution above is better.
    >
    > --
    > - JB
    > Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User
    >
    > Windows Vista Support Faq
    > http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
    >
    >


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access

    Microsoft is not "determining how you use your computer" at all.

    There is *nothing* you are blocked from doing now; an administrator has as
    much power to do things as they did in Windows XP.

    The only difference is that *you* now have control over which programs can
    use *your* administrator power.

    I understand that you are having issues because of this change because you
    are using older programs that do not know how to ask for your permission;
    however, these issues will go away as programs are made that work with
    Windows Vista, and the fix for these programs is really simple (right-click
    them and click run as administrator for short-term; for long term,
    right-click, click properties, click compatability tab, and tell it to
    always run as administrator).

    The best advice I can give is that if you are getting errors such as "access
    denied" or "you have to be an administrator to do this", it is because the
    program you are using is not designed for Windows Vista, and needs to use
    your administrator power in order to be able to do what it needs to do, but
    doesn't know how to ask you for your permission.

    In order to allow it to do what it wants to do, right-click it, and click
    Run As Administrator; just be aware that this will give that program *full
    access* to your computer, so be sure you trust the program with such access
    before doing it.

    This security feature in Windows Vista gives you the following assurances:

    * Programs that run on your computer can *ONLY* have full access to your
    computer with *YOUR* knowledge/permission; programs that don't need or don't
    ask for full access to your computer, don't get it

    * You are notified EVERY TIME a program requiring full access to your
    computer starts; this protects you from programs loading trusted, system
    components and using them against you ("Hey, I didn't start format.exe...
    what is it doing running?")

    These are good things


    --
    - JB
    Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User

    Windows Vista Support Faq
    http://www.jimmah.com/vista/


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    ativar Guest

    Re: Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access

    Well, I guess, as the English PHD stated in a lecture, "Conjecture is a
    symantic, and all the world talks in symantics. So I conjecture that this
    symantic is not compatible with your symantic and therefore the conjecture of
    a converstation is simply not symantic enough to be compatible."
    Now. I am still totally confused as to why I have to have administrator
    powers in order to save a program in a specific file folder. That is my
    basic question. And if not allowing me to save a program that is VISTA
    specific - as is the one I was attempting to save - is a security measure to
    protect VISTA, then it would be somewhat of a forgone conclusion, in my
    humble estimation, that MS is indeed, 'determining how I utilize my computer.'
    But, all that aside, your original answer was sufficiently specific, and
    allowed me to manage the problem that I was having. I thank you for your
    help.

    ativar


    "Jimmy Brush" wrote:

    > Microsoft is not "determining how you use your computer" at all.
    >
    > There is *nothing* you are blocked from doing now; an administrator has as
    > much power to do things as they did in Windows XP.
    >
    > The only difference is that *you* now have control over which programs can
    > use *your* administrator power.
    >
    > I understand that you are having issues because of this change because you
    > are using older programs that do not know how to ask for your permission;
    > however, these issues will go away as programs are made that work with
    > Windows Vista, and the fix for these programs is really simple (right-click
    > them and click run as administrator for short-term; for long term,
    > right-click, click properties, click compatability tab, and tell it to
    > always run as administrator).
    >
    > The best advice I can give is that if you are getting errors such as "access
    > denied" or "you have to be an administrator to do this", it is because the
    > program you are using is not designed for Windows Vista, and needs to use
    > your administrator power in order to be able to do what it needs to do, but
    > doesn't know how to ask you for your permission.
    >
    > In order to allow it to do what it wants to do, right-click it, and click
    > Run As Administrator; just be aware that this will give that program *full
    > access* to your computer, so be sure you trust the program with such access
    > before doing it.
    >
    > This security feature in Windows Vista gives you the following assurances:
    >
    > * Programs that run on your computer can *ONLY* have full access to your
    > computer with *YOUR* knowledge/permission; programs that don't need or don't
    > ask for full access to your computer, don't get it
    >
    > * You are notified EVERY TIME a program requiring full access to your
    > computer starts; this protects you from programs loading trusted, system
    > components and using them against you ("Hey, I didn't start format.exe...
    > what is it doing running?")
    >
    > These are good things
    >
    >
    > --
    > - JB
    > Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User
    >
    > Windows Vista Support Faq
    > http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
    >


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    JamesT Guest

    Re: Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access

    Mr. Brush,

    I totally understand the reasoning for the new permissions design and
    personally think it's a great idea. The user is the most dangerous part of
    the system!
    I do have a question. One of our programs uses an add in application that
    creates a virtual lock, simulating a VPN connection. This install is
    automatic and does not prompt for permission. Vista blocks this installation.
    There isn't a way to save this to a system because it does not give the
    chance. The "guys in the sky" are working on upgrading the program; however,
    that could take up to two months (usually more). In the mean time the guys
    out in the field are helpless. Which means money out of pockets. Being the IT
    GOTO, I feel the heat from both directions.Is there a work around?

    "Jimmy Brush" wrote:

    > Microsoft is not "determining how you use your computer" at all.
    >
    > There is *nothing* you are blocked from doing now; an administrator has as
    > much power to do things as they did in Windows XP.
    >
    > The only difference is that *you* now have control over which programs can
    > use *your* administrator power.
    >
    > I understand that you are having issues because of this change because you
    > are using older programs that do not know how to ask for your permission;
    > however, these issues will go away as programs are made that work with
    > Windows Vista, and the fix for these programs is really simple (right-click
    > them and click run as administrator for short-term; for long term,
    > right-click, click properties, click compatability tab, and tell it to
    > always run as administrator).
    >
    > The best advice I can give is that if you are getting errors such as "access
    > denied" or "you have to be an administrator to do this", it is because the
    > program you are using is not designed for Windows Vista, and needs to use
    > your administrator power in order to be able to do what it needs to do, but
    > doesn't know how to ask you for your permission.
    >
    > In order to allow it to do what it wants to do, right-click it, and click
    > Run As Administrator; just be aware that this will give that program *full
    > access* to your computer, so be sure you trust the program with such access
    > before doing it.
    >
    > This security feature in Windows Vista gives you the following assurances:
    >
    > * Programs that run on your computer can *ONLY* have full access to your
    > computer with *YOUR* knowledge/permission; programs that don't need or don't
    > ask for full access to your computer, don't get it
    >
    > * You are notified EVERY TIME a program requiring full access to your
    > computer starts; this protects you from programs loading trusted, system
    > components and using them against you ("Hey, I didn't start format.exe...
    > what is it doing running?")
    >
    > These are good things
    >
    >
    > --
    > - JB
    > Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User
    >
    > Windows Vista Support Faq
    > http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
    >


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access


    "ativar" <ativar@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:C5B8322A-FCF0-44F7-A79E-106751A513EE@microsoft.com...
    > Well, I guess, as the English PHD stated in a lecture, "Conjecture is a
    > symantic, and all the world talks in symantics. So I conjecture that this
    > symantic is not compatible with your symantic and therefore the conjecture
    > of
    > a converstation is simply not symantic enough to be compatible."


    *blank stare*

    > Now. I am still totally confused as to why I have to have administrator
    > powers in order to save a program in a specific file folder. That is my
    > basic question.


    You *have* admin power. You can save anywhere you want. But, you have to
    tells Windows that you want the program you are using to *use* this power,
    if it doesn't ask for it.

    > And if not allowing me> to save a program that is VISTA
    > specific - as is the one I was attempting to save - is a security measure
    > to
    > protect VISTA,


    LOL, it is not a security measure to protect Vista. .. it is a security
    measure to protect *you*. From the program that you are using to do the
    download (i.e. perform an administrative action).

    Vista doesn't know you want that program to be able to have full control
    over your computer ... because it is too old to know how to ask for it. So
    you have to let vista know that you want it to be able to use your admin
    power.

    The reason certain folders are restricted in this way is because it contains
    sensitive files that, if modified, could be used to take over your computer.

    UAC protects you from programs that would modify these areas without your
    knowledge or consent.

    UAC prompts are not somehow controlling you or keeping you from doing
    things... UAC does nothing of the sort. UAC protects you from the programs
    that run on your computer, and puts you in control over them by 1) telling
    you when a program runs that wants full access to your computer and 2)
    giving you a chance to stop such programs from running. That is the only
    thing that is going on .

    You seem to be really driving at "what is the difference between what is a
    restricted/administrator action and what isn't", and pointing to the fact
    that Microsoft has defined this seperation, and thus is round-aboutly in
    control of your computer.

    While it is true that Microsoft has defined the line between administrative
    vs. non-administrative, this gives them NO control whatsoever over your
    computer because you have the SOLE and EXPLICIT control over how programs
    cross this line via the UAC prompt and the run-as-admin tool. Microsoft has
    no control over what programs you choose to allow to cross this line - you
    have the sole power to determine this.

    If Microsoft wanted to control what you did on your computer, they would not
    prompt you at all or give you the power to run programs with admin power.
    You would simply be told what you are and are not allowed to do. .

    <snip>


    --
    - JB
    Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User

    Windows Vista Support Faq
    http://www.jimmah.com/vista/


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access

    Hello,

    "JamesT" <JamesT@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:ED3566E5-327D-4137-ACDC-CDC02CEFA9F6@microsoft.com...
    > Mr. Brush,
    >
    > I totally understand the reasoning for the new permissions design and
    > personally think it's a great idea. The user is the most dangerous part of
    > the system!


    UAC is designed to empower the administrative user, not control them...

    > I do have a question. One of our programs uses an add in application that
    > creates a virtual lock, simulating a VPN connection. This install is
    > automatic and does not prompt for permission. Vista blocks this
    > installation.
    > There isn't a way to save this to a system because it does not give the
    > chance. The "guys in the sky" are working on upgrading the program;
    > however,
    > that could take up to two months (usually more). In the mean time the guys
    > out in the field are helpless. Which means money out of pockets. Being the
    > IT
    > GOTO, I feel the heat from both directions.Is there a work around?


    How is the install automatic?

    The easiest solution, assuming "the people in the fields" are installing the
    software by hand and not by automated means, would be to have the IT
    technicians run whatever .exe that does the updating "as administrator" (by
    right-clicking it and clicking run as administrator).

    For example, if the update is done inside of Internet Explorer, then run IE
    as admin.

    I really cannot offer any other solutions without knowing more about how the
    install works (how is it being deployed? is it MSI? etc)

    --
    - JB
    Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User

    Windows Vista Support Faq
    http://www.jimmah.com/vista/


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    JamesT Guest

    Re: Signed On As Administrator, but Denied Access

    There is nothing to right click. When the user punches in his/her password
    the bowser loads the secure page. The program automatically loads the first
    time the page is opened on the system. There is nothing to click or view
    before it loads. It's almost scripted the same as an activeX control with the
    execption of it being an actual program.

    "Jimmy Brush" wrote:

    > Hello,
    >
    > "JamesT" <JamesT@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > news:ED3566E5-327D-4137-ACDC-CDC02CEFA9F6@microsoft.com...
    > > Mr. Brush,
    > >
    > > I totally understand the reasoning for the new permissions design and
    > > personally think it's a great idea. The user is the most dangerous part of
    > > the system!

    >
    > UAC is designed to empower the administrative user, not control them...
    >
    > > I do have a question. One of our programs uses an add in application that
    > > creates a virtual lock, simulating a VPN connection. This install is
    > > automatic and does not prompt for permission. Vista blocks this
    > > installation.
    > > There isn't a way to save this to a system because it does not give the
    > > chance. The "guys in the sky" are working on upgrading the program;
    > > however,
    > > that could take up to two months (usually more). In the mean time the guys
    > > out in the field are helpless. Which means money out of pockets. Being the
    > > IT
    > > GOTO, I feel the heat from both directions.Is there a work around?

    >
    > How is the install automatic?
    >
    > The easiest solution, assuming "the people in the fields" are installing the
    > software by hand and not by automated means, would be to have the IT
    > technicians run whatever .exe that does the updating "as administrator" (by
    > right-clicking it and clicking run as administrator).
    >
    > For example, if the update is done inside of Internet Explorer, then run IE
    > as admin.
    >
    > I really cannot offer any other solutions without knowing more about how the
    > install works (how is it being deployed? is it MSI? etc)
    >
    > --
    > - JB
    > Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User
    >
    > Windows Vista Support Faq
    > http://www.jimmah.com/vista/
    >


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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