Vista - Name your Explorer replacement

There have been a few people offering explorer replacements for file
management, but I'd like to know which ones you really like, and why, as I'm
eager (to put it mildly) to try something else.

All my non-MS apps seem to handle basic file operations just fine so the
issues seem to be isolated to the actual Explorer application.

So please give me a third-party substitute until MS engineers come to their
senses.

Thanks!

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:51:33 -0700, "just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com>

>There have been a few people offering explorer replacements for file
>management, but I'd like to know which ones you really like, and why, as I'm
>eager (to put it mildly) to try something else.

>All my non-MS apps seem to handle basic file operations just fine so the
>issues seem to be isolated to the actual Explorer application.

What problems are you having?

>So please give me a third-party substitute until MS engineers come to their
>senses.

I use 2xExplorer.exe for an OS eye view, and LL3.EXE (ancient DOS-era
Lap Link 3 with several scalability issues) for a DOS eye view.

The only issues with Vista's Windows Explorer that I've been having,
has gone about namespace vs. file system ambiguities. So I want
something that will show the file system, and sod the namespace :-)

For example, if you rt-drag Documents from where it starts off in
C:\Users\{UserName} to D:\, you will have your Documents namespace
object in file system location D:\Documents. So far, so good.

Now highlight D:\Documents and rename it to DATA. Have you renamed
the file system location D:\Documents to D:\DATA, or have you renamed
the C:\Users\{UserName}\Documents object to C:\Users\{UserName}\DATA?

You bet your ass, the difference matters; if Eudora has it's email
data in D:\Documents\Mail and you reference it as D:\Data\Mail, it's
not going to work properly. It nearly works properly, thanks to
Eudora's inherent robustness, but you will get a new blank message
created whenever it starts.


In XP, the problem doesn't arise because namespace objects aren't
shown in path syntax. I know that if I'm looking at "My Documents" at
the top of the tree (on the desktop) it's the namespace object, and if
I'm looking at D:\Data I'm looking at the file system location.

But Vista does name spoofing more aggressively than XP's annoying "My
...." substitution for "SomeName's Documents" whenever SomeName is
logged in - it spoofs the directory names within the file system path.

So I needed a "truth serum" file system explorer, as opposed to the
namespace explorer that Windows Explorer actually is.


If it's one thing I HATE, it's an UI that lies to me, as if I had a
rootkit resident. I quite like the ease-of-use benefits of namespace
redirection, but it should be possible, at least on a right-click to
UNAMBIGUOUSLY see what's going on, and from there, to change the name
of object and/or directory under "direct vision".

Overlays get really risky when there's no differentiator, be it
Properties that exist both in a namespace object and a file system
directory, or resolving classes and functions in OOP.

I wonder how many bugs arise from "if the argument is a byte, call
this function, if it is a dword, call that function" elegance... yes,
it's elegant, but sometimes us humans drop the ball, or maybe what
used to be bytes are now words after an ASCII-to-Unicode switch...
sorry, I digress; none of this has anything to do with file system





>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

just bob wrote:
> There have been a few people offering explorer replacements for file
> management, but I'd like to know which ones you really like, and why, as
> I'm eager (to put it mildly) to try something else.
>
> All my non-MS apps seem to handle basic file operations just fine so the
> issues seem to be isolated to the actual Explorer application.
>
> So please give me a third-party substitute until MS engineers come to
> their senses.
>
> Thanks!

I find that Power Desk (V-COM) is a much better file manager and meets
my needs for almost all operations.

"just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:eYl3Pi%23bHHA.4000@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> So please give me a third-party substitute until MS engineers come to
> their senses.

I'm using XYplorer (previously called TrackerV3) since 8 years. Okay, it is
my own app, but I'm not the only one who likes it. See a recent review:
http://www.xyplorer.com/reviews.htm

Give it a try (30 day free evaluation). XYplorer is a portable file manager.
It does not require any installation, stores all data in the program's
folder, and running it does not change your system or registry.

http://www.xyplorer.com

Don

Chris

Might your "namespace" issue explain some bizarre problems I have with
Search? I cannot get a correct return for "cash.xls". It gives me
"cash1206.xls" and all variants of cash........!

Also this comment interests me "C:\Users\{UserName} to D:\, ". I have
placed my Data files in H:\ DATA having never used any My Documents
folders! Is Microsoft saying you can only use our system without
problems if you conform to our mandatory User Account structure?


--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote
in message news:kmlg03los584otki3e69itsftoekjqp8id@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:51:33 -0700, "just bob"
> <kilbyfan-aol@net.com>
>
>>There have been a few people offering explorer replacements for file
>>management, but I'd like to know which ones you really like, and
>>why, as I'm
>>eager (to put it mildly) to try something else.
>
>>All my non-MS apps seem to handle basic file operations just fine so
>>the
>>issues seem to be isolated to the actual Explorer application.
>
> What problems are you having?
>
>>So please give me a third-party substitute until MS engineers come
>>to their
>>senses.
>
> I use 2xExplorer.exe for an OS eye view, and LL3.EXE (ancient
> DOS-era
> Lap Link 3 with several scalability issues) for a DOS eye view.
>
> The only issues with Vista's Windows Explorer that I've been having,
> has gone about namespace vs. file system ambiguities. So I want
> something that will show the file system, and sod the namespace :-)
>
> For example, if you rt-drag Documents from where it starts off in
> C:\Users\{UserName} to D:\, you will have your Documents namespace
> object in file system location D:\Documents. So far, so good.
>
> Now highlight D:\Documents and rename it to DATA. Have you renamed
> the file system location D:\Documents to D:\DATA, or have you
> renamed
> the C:\Users\{UserName}\Documents object to
> C:\Users\{UserName}\DATA?
>
> You bet your ass, the difference matters; if Eudora has it's email
> data in D:\Documents\Mail and you reference it as D:\Data\Mail, it's
> not going to work properly. It nearly works properly, thanks to
> Eudora's inherent robustness, but you will get a new blank message
> created whenever it starts.
>
>
> In XP, the problem doesn't arise because namespace objects aren't
> shown in path syntax. I know that if I'm looking at "My Documents"
> at
> the top of the tree (on the desktop) it's the namespace object, and
> if
> I'm looking at D:\Data I'm looking at the file system location.
>
> But Vista does name spoofing more aggressively than XP's annoying
> "My
> ..." substitution for "SomeName's Documents" whenever SomeName is
> logged in - it spoofs the directory names within the file system
> path.
>
> So I needed a "truth serum" file system explorer, as opposed to the
> namespace explorer that Windows Explorer actually is.
>
>
> If it's one thing I HATE, it's an UI that lies to me, as if I had a
> rootkit resident. I quite like the ease-of-use benefits of
> namespace
> redirection, but it should be possible, at least on a right-click to
> UNAMBIGUOUSLY see what's going on, and from there, to change the
> name
> of object and/or directory under "direct vision".
>
> Overlays get really risky when there's no differentiator, be it
> Properties that exist both in a namespace object and a file system
> directory, or resolving classes and functions in OOP.
>
> I wonder how many bugs arise from "if the argument is a byte, call
> this function, if it is a dword, call that function" elegance...
> yes,
> it's elegant, but sometimes us humans drop the ball, or maybe what
> used to be bytes are now words after an ASCII-to-Unicode switch...
> sorry, I digress; none of this has anything to do with file system
>
>
>
>
>
>>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
> Saws are too hard to use.
> Be easier to use!
>>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

"just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:eYl3Pi%23bHHA.4000@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> There have been a few people offering explorer replacements for file
> management, but I'd like to know which ones you really like, and why, as
> I'm eager (to put it mildly) to try something else.
>
> All my non-MS apps seem to handle basic file operations just fine so the
> issues seem to be isolated to the actual Explorer application.
>
> So please give me a third-party substitute until MS engineers come to
> their senses.
>
> Thanks!

Check out FreeCommander!

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:59:51 +0100, "Gerry Cornell"

>Chris

Hi!

>Might your "namespace" issue explain some bizarre problems I have with
>Search? I cannot get a correct return for "cash.xls". It gives me
>"cash1206.xls" and all variants of cash........!

Ah, but there are so many other reasons why Vista Search may behave
unexpectdly, that one's tempted to keep it on probation, following it
with Agent Ransack searches straight after, until your use of it has
refined to the <cough> high power-user standards it expects.

See other threads in and around here. Issues seem to be:

1) Order and inclusivity

Usually story - you say "search here" but it may dither around
elsewhere first. It seems to go; indexed locations, then somewhere
else according to some criteria I forgot (C:\Users, maybe?) and then
it may, or may not, search within the "everywhere" you selected.

The last works-by-default search was in WinME; with XP, you always
have to go Advanced, show hidden and system files, even if you already
set these to be visible in Explorer (and therefore are one of those
folks who trip over non-navigable junctions, LOL)

2) Name vs. content

This may be UI-specific (i.e. apply to those single-input-field
"simple" UI) but you may intend to search for names that match a
filespec, but the serach will grope content instead.

3) Spaces and wildcards

As you know, spaces are taken as a delimiter unless closed within
quotes. But you may expect that when used as a delimiter, the
different delimitered items are OR'd together, e.g...

Search( *.EXE *.COM *.CMD *.SCR *.BAT *.PIF *.CPL )

....would be expected to find file types that canm run as raw code when
"opened". But in Vista, and possibly in XP (where I find I have to
use "comma space" rather than just "space") the items are AND'd
togther. So you do the above search to exclude infectable code files
in your data set before backup, say, and you get the expected "none
found", and yet there may be who knows what septic stuff in there.

What you may also assume is that "Some Name*.exe" will find "Some Name
1.exe", "Some Name Here.exe" etc. via * as a wildcard. But this is
not what happens in Vista, I'm told (from threads here"; instead, the
* is taken as a literal, unless you precede the "quoted string" with
the tilde character (i.e. tilde != "not" in this case), e.g.

Search( ~"This will match * as a wildcard.txt" )

4) The usual stuff...

....such as matching strings within binary, ASCII and Unicode content.

>Also this comment interests me "C:\Users\{UserName} to D:\, ". I have
>placed my Data files in H:\ DATA having never used any My Documents
>folders! Is Microsoft saying you can only use our system without
>problems if you conform to our mandatory User Account structure?

Hmm.. not really, you can manually put your data elsewhere, tho later
permissions issues may apply if defaults for access are tightened up.

It's more about whether apps will default to the location you want, if
they use (or statically derive) their data paths from shell namespace.

The small challenge in Vista is how to get Vista to map an existing
shell space location to path of your choice, without:
- duplicating the namespace item in the C:\Users... view
- botching the name of the target directory
- losing "special" behaviours such as folder icon, view
- dropping the Desktop.ini or leaving it in the wrong place
- stranding data of already-installed apps (i.e. do this first)

The large challenges are:
- how to do all that for the new account prototype
- how to create your own namespace folders and behaviors



>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote in
message news:kmlg03los584otki3e69itsftoekjqp8id@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:51:33 -0700, "just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com>
>
>>There have been a few people offering explorer replacements for file
>>management, but I'd like to know which ones you really like, and why, as
>>I'm
>>eager (to put it mildly) to try something else.
>
>>All my non-MS apps seem to handle basic file operations just fine so the
>>issues seem to be isolated to the actual Explorer application.
>
> What problems are you having?

Where have you been? :-)

Seriously, read virtually any of my message sin this forum over the last
month!

PowerDesk or the similar Explorer Plus that behaves like Norton Desktop
for Windows did. (Don't hold that against it <g>)

PowerDesk has a free version you can try out and maybe continue to use.
I'm using ExplorerPlus because I bought that to support the original
programmers but it works fine under VISTA.

You can have one or two Drive Windows; have them show horizontally or
vertically; have a tree window; show or not show folders in the files
window; select drives with a click on a labeled button; use a very fast
file search facility; and copy to the clipboard a file name or the
complete path to it with a single click. Like:

C:\Windows\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\angelusb.inf_22a0c7db

I can't understand why MS didn't buy them out -- unless they didn't
trust windows users with finding files <g>

http://www.v-com.com/product/PowerDesk_Free_Trial.html

ExplorerPlus seems to have disappeared from its umpteenth home at:

http://www.sendphotos.com/

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:05:25 -0700, "just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com>
>"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote in
>> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:51:33 -0700, "just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com>

>>>There have been a few people offering explorer replacements for file
>>>management, but I'd like to know which ones you really like, and why, as
>>>I'm eager (to put it mildly) to try something else.

>>>All my non-MS apps seem to handle basic file operations just fine so the
>>>issues seem to be isolated to the actual Explorer application.

>> What problems are you having?

>Where have you been? :-)

>Seriously, read virtually any of my message sin this forum over the last
>month!

The big thing that's been dominating the Vista threads has been UAC
prompts, whether they should be there, and whether one should turn
them off. There's been a slippery "selection" bug in Windows
Explorer, and namespace ambiguity issues I've raised.

To volume of material in these groups is such that I browse subject
lines only, and pull down those I'm interested in - I don't read all
the messages - so some detail would really help. I'm not really keen
on accessing the same material via a web search to pick out the posts
a particular poster sent... too much like work ;-)



>--------------------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
...no it's fine, I was disturbed already
>--------------------------- ---- --- -- - - - -