Vista - Vista Search Index Corruption

I have been having some difficulty with my Search Index maintaining
integrity.

I am using Vista Ultimate, and I have an arrangement of four partitions,
two each on two (different sized)physical drives. One partiton on big
drive is vista install, other is documents and program files. Second
drive has a partition which I have dedicated to the search index, and
also print spool and swap/page file.[If I knew how get all the temp and
stray Program/AppData files out of install C: partition, I'd move them
all...(not vista's fault I don't think)] And second partition on small
drive is some nearby temporary backup space.

So, I have moved the Index location to essentially its own partition,
and changed the path for the Index location in the Advanced Options
Index Settings tab from Advanced button of Indexing Options control panel.

This arrangement works great for a short time, and I mean that, when
Vista's search is working, along with other Explorer enhancements, I am
very satisfied. But it is not long before the Index stops finding files
it should, stops returning results it used to return.

This is the cycle and stages I have gone through a few times, in case I
am missing a step.

After corruption, by which I mean not returning valid results, is
detected, I first confirm that the files are in Indexed directories,
both through the lineage of path folder Properties -> Advanced and also
checked as an Included Location from the Modify (Index Locations) pane
of Index Options.

If I can see the file and see that it should be indexed and I remember
that it was once included in similar searches but no longer is; I lose
faith on ever getting valid search returns, which greatly reduces utility.

After I have confirmed corruption of index integrity I go to the
Troubleshooting box of the Index Settings tab of the Advanced Options
panel from the Index Options -> Advanced button. First I try a Rebuild.
This is allowed to do its work, but has never repaired or restored
files to the results.

Then the only other thing I know to do is Restore Defaults. This resets
my indexed locations to less than ideal defaults and forces me to
re-select all the locations I would like to index.

But many of these locations, actually, have a read only on the folder,
so actually changing whether or not it is indexed is impossible. Unless
you can take control of the folder somehow, but no methods I have seen
yet allow me to control my own music and pictures subfolders.


So, to sum up. Vista won't let me set indexing options via
RClick->Properties, I think because of an obnoxious recalcitrant
read-only. Since I can't set it there, my options in one of the other
index locations options panels are greyed out. But it doesn't matter
much, at the moment, that I can't set my locations, because the index
can't maintain integrity.

I sincerely hope someone can offer suggestions, as I have found it quite
frustrating for my expensive OS, which did also require hardware
upgrades, to constantly forget settings, refuse the sole user access,
offer unhelpful to misleading troubleshooting, and often just silently
stop working.

I'm not infected. I don't have any adware, spyware, etc. These have
been problems from the day of installation, but I had held hope that I
could figure out a solution. Help, please.

Hello Rabidrobot,

Your post is so informative that I'm a bit lost in it. I even had to look up what "recalcitrant" means Let's move one step at a
time.

1) You've mentioned that you have moved the documents and program files. Are the missing files under a reparse point of any kind?
How exactly did you move stuff around?

2) The recalcitrant part: I understand that you go to Indexing Options->Modify...->Show all locations (if you haven't disabled UAC).
Then you see a location such as C:\ProgramData grayed out and when you RClick->Properties->Advanced, it doesn't let you check "Index
this location for faster searches". Yo really-really don't want to let the indexer party on that particular location (or any other
with temp files or data files that programs write to all the time), but that's besides the point. I can't reproduce that, could you
give an example of one such location that I might also have on my box?

3) Is there anything in common about the missing files, like extension? Forgive me for asking, but have you verified that the file
is has the right settings in Advanced Options->File Types? Could you give an example of a missing file path and name? Could you try
moving one of the missing files into a directly that gets indexed normally and see if it would get indexed?

4) You aren't out of space on the drive where you put the swap and the index, right?

Thanks,
Ilia

"rabidrobot" <rabidrobot@SPAMSUXfeebdack.com> wrote in message news:O%233M3bSqHHA.3372@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I have been having some difficulty with my Search Index maintaining
> integrity.
>
> I am using Vista Ultimate, and I have an arrangement of four partitions,
> two each on two (different sized)physical drives. One partiton on big
> drive is vista install, other is documents and program files. Second
> drive has a partition which I have dedicated to the search index, and
> also print spool and swap/page file.[If I knew how get all the temp and
> stray Program/AppData files out of install C: partition, I'd move them
> all...(not vista's fault I don't think)] And second partition on small
> drive is some nearby temporary backup space.
>
> So, I have moved the Index location to essentially its own partition,
> and changed the path for the Index location in the Advanced Options
> Index Settings tab from Advanced button of Indexing Options control panel.
>
> This arrangement works great for a short time, and I mean that, when
> Vista's search is working, along with other Explorer enhancements, I am
> very satisfied. But it is not long before the Index stops finding files
> it should, stops returning results it used to return.
>
> This is the cycle and stages I have gone through a few times, in case I
> am missing a step.
>
> After corruption, by which I mean not returning valid results, is
> detected, I first confirm that the files are in Indexed directories,
> both through the lineage of path folder Properties -> Advanced and also
> checked as an Included Location from the Modify (Index Locations) pane
> of Index Options.
>
> If I can see the file and see that it should be indexed and I remember
> that it was once included in similar searches but no longer is; I lose
> faith on ever getting valid search returns, which greatly reduces utility.
>
> After I have confirmed corruption of index integrity I go to the
> Troubleshooting box of the Index Settings tab of the Advanced Options
> panel from the Index Options -> Advanced button. First I try a Rebuild.
> This is allowed to do its work, but has never repaired or restored
> files to the results.
>
> Then the only other thing I know to do is Restore Defaults. This resets my indexed locations to less than ideal defaults and
> forces me to re-select all the locations I would like to index.
>
> But many of these locations, actually, have a read only on the folder, so actually changing whether or not it is indexed is
> impossible. Unless you can take control of the folder somehow, but no methods I have seen yet allow me to control my own music
> and pictures subfolders.
>
>
> So, to sum up. Vista won't let me set indexing options via RClick->Properties, I think because of an obnoxious recalcitrant
> read-only. Since I can't set it there, my options in one of the other index locations options panels are greyed out. But it
> doesn't matter much, at the moment, that I can't set my locations, because the index can't maintain integrity.
>
> I sincerely hope someone can offer suggestions, as I have found it quite frustrating for my expensive OS, which did also require
> hardware upgrades, to constantly forget settings, refuse the sole user access, offer unhelpful to misleading troubleshooting, and
> often just silently stop working.
>
> I'm not infected. I don't have any adware, spyware, etc. These have been problems from the day of installation, but I had held
> hope that I could figure out a solution. Help, please.
>
>
>
>
>

Thank you Ilia for suggestions, and for putting up with my wordy style.
I hope we can narrow it down a bit together.

I always try to cover all the bases in my initial post to help any
would be responders, but I end up w/ overkill and still omitting things.
For instance, I meant to mention I have UAC enabled, but have adjusted
Security settings on some folders.

I hadn't confirmed the file types were indexed recently, so I was hoping
that was it, but the types were all selected.

I moved the various folders and system files in different ways. The
swap and index locations have their own thing. And the greens, the
folders in my user folder, those I moved with their Location tab from
properties. I had worked with Vista betas/RCs, so was ready to move
these as soon as possible after installation. And I wasn't hoping to
index system folders/appdata/or temp (lol) but rather restrict the
indexer a bit more even.

But, you ask if the missing files have anything in common, and I think
you are onto something. I didn't think so at first, because we're
talking text files with dozens of different extensions in a brand new
projects folder. And images of the assorted image formats could not be
found by property or name in the Pictures folder. What bugged me, and
also threw me the most, I think, was the Music files. Some songs and
artists were not selectable to be indexed, or were selected but not seen
anyway. But, even though I could not find the files with Explorer
search, the Windows Media Player library saw all, presumably has an
indexing system of its own.

phew

In any case, these files DO have something in common. They are all old;
from when I ran XP. New projects' text files in the projects folder I
could find, but old ones pasted there could not find. New images in my
new Pictures subfolder were turning up, but not ones in my archives of
work from XP. And Music I got in the last few months, often commingled
with older tracks, showed in my results, but not the ones that migrated.

I did a clean install of Vista, though, not an upgrade. Just kept some
of my old data around on HDD.

I tried some experiments with moving files and trying to find. Results
puzzling, but Older folders seem to be culprit. Old files in new
folders were found, old folders always hide old files.

So, armed with this, thanks to the pointer, I searched some more. I
need to reboot (got me adjusting my page file--plenty room, btw ),
then look some more for specifics, but I think I saw something about
this before when not looking for it--a command line or something to own
XP files.

stay tuned,
Xander Lih
TIME Magazine Person of the Year 2006
http://feebdack.com



Ilia Sacson [MS] wrote:
> Hello Rabidrobot,
>
> Your post is so informative that I'm a bit lost in it. I even had to
> look up what "recalcitrant" means Let's move one step at a time.
>
> 1) You've mentioned that you have moved the documents and program files.
> Are the missing files under a reparse point of any kind? How exactly did
> you move stuff around?
>
> 2) The recalcitrant part: I understand that you go to Indexing
> Options->Modify...->Show all locations (if you haven't disabled UAC).
> Then you see a location such as C:\ProgramData grayed out and when you
> RClick->Properties->Advanced, it doesn't let you check "Index this
> location for faster searches". Yo really-really don't want to let the
> indexer party on that particular location (or any other with temp files
> or data files that programs write to all the time), but that's besides
> the point. I can't reproduce that, could you give an example of one such
> location that I might also have on my box?
>
> 3) Is there anything in common about the missing files, like extension?
> Forgive me for asking, but have you verified that the file is has the
> right settings in Advanced Options->File Types? Could you give an
> example of a missing file path and name? Could you try moving one of the
> missing files into a directly that gets indexed normally and see if it
> would get indexed?
>
> 4) You aren't out of space on the drive where you put the swap and the
> index, right?
>
> Thanks,
> Ilia
>
> "rabidrobot" <rabidrobot@SPAMSUXfeebdack.com> wrote in message
> news:O%233M3bSqHHA.3372@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> I have been having some difficulty with my Search Index maintaining
>> integrity.
>>
>> I am using Vista Ultimate, and I have an arrangement of four partitions,
>> two each on two (different sized)physical drives. One partiton on big
>> drive is vista install, other is documents and program files. Second
>> drive has a partition which I have dedicated to the search index, and
>> also print spool and swap/page file.[If I knew how get all the temp and
>> stray Program/AppData files out of install C: partition, I'd move them
>> all...(not vista's fault I don't think)] And second partition on small
>> drive is some nearby temporary backup space.
>>
>> So, I have moved the Index location to essentially its own partition,
>> and changed the path for the Index location in the Advanced Options
>> Index Settings tab from Advanced button of Indexing Options control
>> panel.
>>
>> This arrangement works great for a short time, and I mean that, when
>> Vista's search is working, along with other Explorer enhancements, I am
>> very satisfied. But it is not long before the Index stops finding files
>> it should, stops returning results it used to return.
>>
>> This is the cycle and stages I have gone through a few times, in case I
>> am missing a step.
>>
>> After corruption, by which I mean not returning valid results, is
>> detected, I first confirm that the files are in Indexed directories,
>> both through the lineage of path folder Properties -> Advanced and also
>> checked as an Included Location from the Modify (Index Locations) pane
>> of Index Options.
>>
>> If I can see the file and see that it should be indexed and I remember
>> that it was once included in similar searches but no longer is; I lose
>> faith on ever getting valid search returns, which greatly reduces
>> utility.
>>
>> After I have confirmed corruption of index integrity I go to the
>> Troubleshooting box of the Index Settings tab of the Advanced Options
>> panel from the Index Options -> Advanced button. First I try a Rebuild.
>> This is allowed to do its work, but has never repaired or restored
>> files to the results.
>>
>> Then the only other thing I know to do is Restore Defaults. This
>> resets my indexed locations to less than ideal defaults and forces me
>> to re-select all the locations I would like to index.
>>
>> But many of these locations, actually, have a read only on the folder,
>> so actually changing whether or not it is indexed is impossible.
>> Unless you can take control of the folder somehow, but no methods I
>> have seen yet allow me to control my own music and pictures subfolders.
>>
>>
>> So, to sum up. Vista won't let me set indexing options via
>> RClick->Properties, I think because of an obnoxious recalcitrant
>> read-only. Since I can't set it there, my options in one of the other
>> index locations options panels are greyed out. But it doesn't matter
>> much, at the moment, that I can't set my locations, because the index
>> can't maintain integrity.
>>
>> I sincerely hope someone can offer suggestions, as I have found it
>> quite frustrating for my expensive OS, which did also require hardware
>> upgrades, to constantly forget settings, refuse the sole user access,
>> offer unhelpful to misleading troubleshooting, and often just silently
>> stop working.
>>
>> I'm not infected. I don't have any adware, spyware, etc. These have
>> been problems from the day of installation, but I had held hope that I
>> could figure out a solution. Help, please.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

All right back again. You can probably skip that other post if it isn't
too late.

Hard to say what the ticket was, but I did these things and all my stuff
that was lost is found. Some may be Red Herrings. Read-Only attribute is
a goose chase for sure.

For most of the big folders I set security as Everyone has Full Power.
This is Right Click FOlder->Properties->Security Tab->Edit. Now I know
how that works though, prolly limit full admin to single account, even
though I'm only user.

Additionally, for major / special folders I selected all the contents,
right click, set properties on all at once. May be superstition, but it
seemed like saying 'Yes' to 'Apply to subfolders' on the Parent Folder
didn't quite work. But I prolly just was doing it at wrong time.

I'm not sure where reboots are required. Here seems good.

I also used
http://www.technobeta.com/posts/add-...-context-menu/
to 'take ownership' of some folders.
As I said there may be a certain amount of overkill at this point.

But I did it, and also changed folder props, &c. while I had the panels
open applying to subfolders (although many times in past those wouldn't
stick).

I think all the settings stuck, even though the read-only persists. But
this means I was able to check their Index Me boxes en masse. After
that box is checked..(so close)

Go to Indexing Options. (easy was is use handy Vista search at
COntrol Panel Main. type 'index' and you'll see the options) From
indexing options I see for first time‼☺ all these many many folders in
full black text and free for me to pick and choose as locations. I see
now the greyed directories you all see, and like UAC, make sense, except
where I had merged files from different eras.

From there, I think everything has been normal. I can't think of a
file yet that isn't found. Thanks very much for your response, Ilia.
WHat the files had in common was key approach.

I get cranky at times, but truth is I am a huge Vista fan. And this
search is great, man when it works, it is extremely useful.

thanks again,

Xander Lih
"Was a member of Generation-X when being a member of Generation-X was
cool."©
http://feebdack.com





Ilia Sacson [MS] wrote:
> Hello Rabidrobot,
>
> Your post is so informative that I'm a bit lost in it. I even had to
> look up what "recalcitrant" means Let's move one step at a time.
>
> 1) You've mentioned that you have moved the documents and program files.
> Are the missing files under a reparse point of any kind? How exactly did
> you move stuff around?
>
> 2) The recalcitrant part: I understand that you go to Indexing
> Options->Modify...->Show all locations (if you haven't disabled UAC).
> Then you see a location such as C:\ProgramData grayed out and when you
> RClick->Properties->Advanced, it doesn't let you check "Index this
> location for faster searches". Yo really-really don't want to let the
> indexer party on that particular location (or any other with temp files
> or data files that programs write to all the time), but that's besides
> the point. I can't reproduce that, could you give an example of one such
> location that I might also have on my box?
>
> 3) Is there anything in common about the missing files, like extension?
> Forgive me for asking, but have you verified that the file is has the
> right settings in Advanced Options->File Types? Could you give an
> example of a missing file path and name? Could you try moving one of the
> missing files into a directly that gets indexed normally and see if it
> would get indexed?
>
> 4) You aren't out of space on the drive where you put the swap and the
> index, right?
>
> Thanks,
> Ilia
>

Glad we figured it out. If you are planning to restrict it to something safer than everyone-full, make sure to give the System full
or at least read access, or else the indexer won't be able to access them.
Thanks,
Ilia

P.S. Since you are such a search fan, here's something you might find interesting:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb266512.aspx. To make using AQS easier, you might want to check Tools->Folder
Options->Search->Use natural language search.

"rabidrobot" <rabidrobot@SPAMSUXfeebdack.com> wrote in message news:O%23uZuHYqHHA.3284@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> All right back again. You can probably skip that other post if it isn't too late.
>
> Hard to say what the ticket was, but I did these things and all my stuff that was lost is found. Some may be Red Herrings.
> Read-Only attribute is a goose chase for sure.
>
> For most of the big folders I set security as Everyone has Full Power.
> This is Right Click FOlder->Properties->Security Tab->Edit. Now I know how that works though, prolly limit full admin to single
> account, even though I'm only user.
>
> Additionally, for major / special folders I selected all the contents, right click, set properties on all at once. May be
> superstition, but it seemed like saying 'Yes' to 'Apply to subfolders' on the Parent Folder didn't quite work. But I prolly just
> was doing it at wrong time.
>
> I'm not sure where reboots are required. Here seems good.
>
> I also used
> http://www.technobeta.com/posts/add-...-context-menu/
> to 'take ownership' of some folders.
> As I said there may be a certain amount of overkill at this point.
>
> But I did it, and also changed folder props, &c. while I had the panels open applying to subfolders (although many times in past
> those wouldn't stick).
>
> I think all the settings stuck, even though the read-only persists. But this means I was able to check their Index Me boxes en
> masse. After that box is checked..(so close)
>
> Go to Indexing Options. (easy was is use handy Vista search at COntrol Panel Main. type 'index' and you'll see the options)
> From indexing options I see for first time‼☺ all these many many folders in full black text and free for me to pick and choose as
> locations. I see now the greyed directories you all see, and like UAC, make sense, except where I had merged files from different
> eras.
>
> From there, I think everything has been normal. I can't think of a file yet that isn't found. Thanks very much for your
> response, Ilia. WHat the files had in common was key approach.
>
> I get cranky at times, but truth is I am a huge Vista fan. And this search is great, man when it works, it is extremely useful.
>
> thanks again,
>
> Xander Lih
> "Was a member of Generation-X when being a member of Generation-X was cool."©
> http://feebdack.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Ilia Sacson [MS] wrote:
>> Hello Rabidrobot,
>>
>> Your post is so informative that I'm a bit lost in it. I even had to look up what "recalcitrant" means Let's move one step at
>> a time.
>>
>> 1) You've mentioned that you have moved the documents and program files. Are the missing files under a reparse point of any kind?
>> How exactly did you move stuff around?
>>
>> 2) The recalcitrant part: I understand that you go to Indexing Options->Modify...->Show all locations (if you haven't disabled
>> UAC). Then you see a location such as C:\ProgramData grayed out and when you RClick->Properties->Advanced, it doesn't let you
>> check "Index this location for faster searches". Yo really-really don't want to let the indexer party on that particular location
>> (or any other with temp files or data files that programs write to all the time), but that's besides the point. I can't reproduce
>> that, could you give an example of one such location that I might also have on my box?
>>
>> 3) Is there anything in common about the missing files, like extension? Forgive me for asking, but have you verified that the
>> file is has the right settings in Advanced Options->File Types? Could you give an example of a missing file path and name? Could
>> you try moving one of the missing files into a directly that gets indexed normally and see if it would get indexed?
>>
>> 4) You aren't out of space on the drive where you put the swap and the index, right?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ilia
>>

Turns out the index doesn't survive multiple reboots. Cannot trust Vista
Search to return valid results. I don't have time to hassle with this
anymore. I have wasted many hours, and frustration level is too high. I
will try integrating Google Desktop as soon as I catch up on work undone
due to trying to repair search, et al.