Vista - Copying files to Program Files directory

Hi, Dave.

> I realize that security and ease of use are inversely related but if all
> one
> has to do is right click to Run as Administrator that doesn't seem like
> much
> of a security but it still requires that extra click.

You apparently (like me) have a blank password for the Administrator, so it
takes ONLY a click. If you DO create a password for that level user, then
"Run as Administrator" would take more than "that extra click". Anyone
trying to Run as Administrator would have to know that password and enter
it. For folks like me (and you?) who are the only users of our computers in
our homes, the extra security level does seem unnecessary - but it can be a
lifesaver (well, a computer-saver) sometimes.

My frustration level with UAC (User Access Control) was very high during the
Vista beta period, when I was reinstalling the newest Vista build - and all
my applications - every month or two. And then I had to do it all again
when Vista went RTM - and again when I upgraded my motherboard/CPU, etc., in
December and had to reinstall RTM. But, after a month or so, when all my
apps were finally installed and running, the UAC prompts became fewer and
farther between. Now, I see them only when I'm trying to do truly Admin
things, like running Disk Management to format a volume, or running an
Admin-level Command Prompt to handle some gut-level job. Now, it is only a
minor nuisance, and worth the trade-off for security.

Maybe I haven't paid much attention to the restrictions on the Program Files
(and Program Files (x86) in a 64-bit WinXP or Vista) folder because most of
my apps that don't require formal installation are not in that folder.
Family Tree Maker, for example, is in E:\FTW. Quicken is in E:\QuickenW on
my computer, even though it does require installation; I just tell its setup
program to do a Custom install and browse to the folder I want to use,
keeping it out of Program Files.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail beta in Vista Ultimate x64)

"Parrot" <Parrot@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:62BA3B4E-9DD4-4DA8-A397-34DC41D462D0@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the advice on how to transfer the files to the Program
> Directory.
> I realize that security and ease of use are inversely related but if all
> one
> has to do is right click to Run as Administrator that doesn't seem like
> much
> of a security but it still requires that extra click. I assume then that
> only the Administrator has this option. When I installed the Vista system
> I
> thought that I was the Administrator yet it treats me like a regular user
> even though I am registered as the Administrator. If I am the
> administrator
> I should be able to dictate the level of security and complexity I want
> for
> myself and for other users.
> Dave
>
> "DevilsPGD" wrote:
>
>> In message <3369E879-8997-4615-A3D5-E926A7BEF59B@microsoft.com> Parrot
>> <Parrot@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I know that I was able to transfer some programs from one XP system to
>> >another XP system before without having to do an install. Is Vista
>> >different
>> >in that respect? What kind of logic allows an install program to update
>> >the
>> >Program Files directory but not a file transfer? I think there is
>> >overkill
>> >on the security issue with Vista. It is getting too damn complicated to
>> >do
>> >anything on computers any more. Why not make things easier?
>>
>> The problem is that ease of use and security are directly opposite
>> goals. That being said, all you have to do is start your file transfer
>> as an administrator, simply right click on your file transfer app and
>> choose "Run as administrator"
>>
>> This doesn't work for Explorer, but it works for everything else. For
>> Explorer, copy the files to your desktop first, then copy them to the
>> Program Files directory afterward, Explorer will automatically prompt to
>> elevate.

In message <62BA3B4E-9DD4-4DA8-A397-34DC41D462D0@microsoft.com> Parrot
<Parrot@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Thanks for the advice on how to transfer the files to the Program Directory.
>I realize that security and ease of use are inversely related but if all one
>has to do is right click to Run as Administrator that doesn't seem like much
>of a security but it still requires that extra click.

The point is that it stops an application from making system-wide
changes on your behalf, without your permission.

>I assume then that
>only the Administrator has this option.

No, all users do -- But if a user isn't already an administrator, they
need to authenticate with an administrative username/password before
proceeding.

>When I installed the Vista system I
>thought that I was the Administrator yet it treats me like a regular user
>even though I am registered as the Administrator.

That's the point. You shouldn't be using the system as an
administrator, you should be using it as a user except when you need the
additional rights.

> If I am the administrator
>I should be able to dictate the level of security and complexity I want for
>myself and for other users.

You can and do -- Take a look at the available group policies for this
control.

--
You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than just a kind word.

<snip>
"Parrot" <Parrot@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:62BA3B4E-9DD4-4DA8-A397-34DC41D462D0@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the advice on how to transfer the files to the Program
> Directory.
> I realize that security and ease of use are inversely related but if all
> one
> has to do is right click to Run as Administrator that doesn't seem like
> much
> of a security but it still requires that extra click. I assume then that
> only the Administrator has this option. When I installed the Vista system
> I
> thought that I was the Administrator yet it treats me like a regular user
> even though I am registered as the Administrator. If I am the
> administrator
> I should be able to dictate the level of security and complexity I want
> for
> myself and for other users.
> Dave

Dave

That one click that gives a program or process permission to make system
wide changes is very important. When you initiate a program, the screen goes
dark (Secure Destop) and a dialog pops up asking for your permission to
continue (UAC prompt). This makes it impossible for anything else to
interact with the system until you give the OK by clicking continue.

Without this prompt, it is very easy for a malicious program to spoof your
admin account and run, in the background, without you even being aware that
it is doing it's dirty deeds.

You won't really appreciate this 'nagging' until you are reading a web page
and then, out of nowhere, you get a prompt stating "mrbadboy.exe" needs your
permission to run "formatyourharddrive.vbs" Continue?

All of the new security layers in Vista are based on the Least User Account
principle which loosely defined means that a user account should only
operate with the basic permissions required to complete normal, everyday
tasks that affect only their user account. If a process needs to be
initiated that makes system wide changes which effects all users, then this
process needs to be intentionally initiated by a user with administrator
privileges.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

Malke wrote:
> DevilsPGD wrote:
>> In message <#jSgVs34HHA.2312@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl> Malke
>> <notreally@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Parrot wrote:
>>>> The files I am trying to transfer are program application files
>>>> which belong in the Program Files directory. The installation
>>>> programs for some of my applications are lost or can't be found and
>>>> I want to transfer the applications to the Program Files directory
>>>> without having to re-install them thru Vista. I tried using the
>>>> Transfer program from Vista but it gets hung up and never does end.
>>>> I am trying to mirror my new computer to my old one but that looks
>>>> almost impossible.
>>> I see. Unfortunately, you can't just transfer programs that way. You
>>> need to get the installation programs and install them on your new
>>> system. There isn't any way around this.
>>
>> That all depends on how poorly written the app is. If the app is fully
>> self contained, or has a documented list of dependencies, it's fairly
>> trivial to move applications manually.
>>
>
> Well, I haven't seen any programs written for a 32-bit Windows operating
> system that will transfer. There's just too much stuff in the Registry.
> If you have, please do tell us which ones will do this and maybe that
> will help the OP.

Malke, have you heard of 'portable' apps. These do not need
installation, they do not write to the registry, and have a tidy
self-contained environment of their own.
Have a look at: http://www.portablefreeware.com/about.php