Vista - Paul Thurrott.... a software pirate.

"Were the group monitored, the post and ensuing thread
would be removed as non-topical."
-Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

______
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools,
but that the lightning ain't distributed right."
- Mark Twain


-Michael


"Rick Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message news:%23x6GoeXrGHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> And secondly, it is a free world and even though you may not find it
>> interesting..others may.. If you don't like what he is posting.. Kill file
>> him..
>
> Free world or not, the post is not relevant to this discussion group and is
> inappropriate. While WGA may be involved with the release version, this
> group is for support and discussion of items currently related to Windows
> Vista. Michael's post is designed to promote arguements about a subject that
> has naught to do with the public preview of Windows Vista. Were the group
> monitored, the post and ensuing thread would be removed as non-topical.
> There are plenty, and I do mean plenty, of Windows groups where this topic
> is appropriate.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>

Why do consider Paul "the Michael Moore of Windows journalism"?

Paul co-authored Windows XP Power Toolkit, which was published
by Microsoft Press. His site http://www.winsupersite.com/ is very
informative.

Michael Moore? That's rather harsh. Point me to such an outlandish
type article Paul has written. He actually seems to be quite the
cheerleader for Microsoft and their products.


-Michael


"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
news:%23Snhl2UrGHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I consider Paul Thurrott the Michael Moore of Windows journalism. I hear he's doing a
>documentary on Microsoft titled "Fahrenheit 1024x768."
>
> "Frank" <fb@nospamm.cmm> wrote in message news:e7jz5xUrGHA.3380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> MICHAEL wrote:
>>> Paul Thurrott, one of the most important Microsoft advocates, has been bitten by Windows
>>> Genuine Advantage. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?s...52221&from=rss
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/wga.asp
>>>
>>> I've found Microsoft's recent forays into customer relations with Windows Genuine Advantage
>>> (WGA) to be somewhat amusing. I mean, after all, Microsoft is a huge company just brimming
>>> with really smart people. How could they do something so silly?
>>> If you're not up on the WGA saga, here's a recap. Microsoft announced its Genuine Advantage
>>> software initiative in March 2006. It's designed as part of the company's wider assault on
>>> software piracy (another infamous part of this fight, Product Activation, won fame and
>>> fortune for Microsoft went XP was released in late 2001). The Genuine Advantage initiative
>>> is comprised of three parts: Education (customers should understand the risks of pirated
>>> software), Engineering (Microsoft's ongoing investment in anti-counterfeiting technologies
>>> and product features), and Enforcement (Microsoft is helping law enforcement agencies go
>>> after the world's worst software pirates).
>>>
>>> WGA is a component of the Engineering part of that unholy triumvirate. It's a bit of
>>> software that gets installed on Windows XP (it's part of Windows Vista right out of the
>>> gate, naturally) and is comprised of two components. The first, dubbed WGA Validation,
>>> determines whether the version of Windows on which its running is legitimate. The second
>>> component, WGA Notifications, displays annoying alerts on pirated Windows copies and
>>> provides a way for the user to pay for a legitimate copy of Windows.
>>>
>>> Aside from basic trust issues--Apple, for example, does not burden users with Product
>>> Activation or any similar anti-piracy technologies in its Mac OS X operating
>>> system--Microsoft made two major mistakes with WGA. The first was to silently post a beta
>>> version of the tool to Windows Update as a Critical Update, thus ensuring that it was
>>> quietly and underhandedly installed on hundreds of millions of customers' PCs: I mean,
>>> seriously. Is Microsoft honestly making guinea pigs out of its entire user base?
>>>
>>> The second mistake was that WGA Notifications was also "phoning home" information to
>>> Microsoft on a regular basis. That's right: Not only was the software secretly installed on
>>> your PC, but it then regularly contacted Microsoft servers and provided them with data
>>> about the instances of pirated and nonpirated software out there. Customers and security
>>> experts reacted with alarm, as well they should: Microsoft had literally shipped spyware to
>>> its customers. Microsoft, meanwhile, reacted as they often do when something like this
>>> happens: They made as if nothing serious had happened and acted shocked that anyone could
>>> think otherwise. So much for the Glasnost of the consent decree.
>>>
>>> After a few days of freaking out customers, Microsoft finally changed WGA in mid-June 2006
>>> so that it wouldn't phone home every single time a PC rebooted, which is how frequently it
>>> had been doing so. Now, WGA will still send back piracy data to Microsoft the first time it
>>> tests a system, and then it will only sporadically phone home after that. The company also
>>> released a set of instructions for disabling or removing the "pilot" version of WGA though
>>> Microsoft contends that the final version of the software, due soon, will not support these
>>> activities.
>>>
>>> After the dust had settled, sort of, I was still sort of curious what WGA looked like on a
>>> system that was suspected of being pirated. This week, I got my wish: A copy of Windows XP
>>> Media Center Edition 2005, installed in a virtual machine, came up with various WGA alerts
>>> after I installed a bunch of updates from Windows Update. Screenshots of this machine can
>>> be found below.
>>>
>>> You're probably wondering how it is that I'm running a pirated copy of Windows. It's a
>>> legitimate question.
>>>
>>> We're all friends here, right?
>>>
>>> Truthfully, I can only imagine what triggered these alerts. The software was installed to a
>>> VM a long time ago and archived on my server. I no doubt used a copy of XP MCE 2005 that I
>>> had received as part of my MSDN subscription. If the WGA alerts are to be believed, it's
>>> possible that Microsoft thinks I've installed this software on too many machines, though
>>> that seems unlikely to me. I can't really say.
>>>
>>> Anyway, that's what it looks like to be a suspected pirate. Like many people who will see
>>> these alerts, I don't believe I did anything wrong. I'm sure that's going to be a common
>>> refrain in this new era of untrusting software and companies. Ah well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Please don't post any more links to trash dot.
>> THX
>> Frank
>
>

MICHAEL wrote:

>>
>> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...657241&tid=109
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84
>> Is Microsoft about to release a Windows "kill switch"?
>> by Ed Bott


Will the Windows Kill Switch kill Windows?

The temptation to jump ship gets greater and greater. I didn't like WPA but
eventually accepted it as OK. I hardly minded WGA when one first had to
submit to a check to get new software. That seemed ..OK as well, hey, they
are handing out stuff and they don't want too much piracy.

But WGA N is a remote control trojan and spyware to boot. If Microsoft
forces that spyware trojan on me I know my principle machine would be
switched over to Linux [it's amazing how well RedHat Fedora Core 5 installed
on a friend's machine - heck it even catches sound cards, which Windows
almost never does, and all the NICs - which Windows almost never does -
scary].

But, yes, I would be loathed to do it. I hate Linux. I love Windows. But I'm
getting sick of all the checks. WPA checks at every boot. WGA checks God
knows when - probably constantly - and now the humilation of WGA N not only
checking but filing a report on me and readying itself to shut me down on
one word from Microsoft.

I'm sorry, but that is intolerable. I allow WGA, but not WGA N [although I
suspect it snuck onto one of the machines here I'm not sure - that's right -
I don't know because it is slipped in with the critical updates].

So if Microsoft forces WGA N and a kill switch on me - then my principle
machine goes Linux - and I've been steadfast Microsoft since 1985. Microsoft
stuff I will use only when it profits me e.g. developing stuff for customers
who still use Windows, but not for business, nor enjoyment, nor fun.
Because, quite frankly, with all this suspcious checking and the threats,
Windows is not fun anymore. And I may even start advocatng Linux.

But that hasn't happened yet, and I'm just drawing a line in the sand. No
forced spyware / trojan WGA N.

"Intel Inside" <REMOVETHISBIT@com> wrote in message
news:%230jBq2VrGHA.3412@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> You have labelled the subject "
> Paul Thurrott.... a software pirate." yet this is *misleading*.

Yes, it is. Just as misleading as the silly arse and annoying
warnings Paul received indicating he might have a piece of stolen
software. Therefore, implying he might be a thief. Imagine,
you're in a setting in which such a warning could be very
embarrasing. Imagine the confusion of regular folks seeing
such a warning. More than a few will go ahead and click the link
to buy another license, when in fact, WGA was wrong and their copy
of Windows is legitimate.

Anything that is installed on *your* computer without your consent
and/or phones home without you knowing- is spyware, plain and
simple. This is what Microsoft did when it secretly included WGA in
a *critical update*. There is *nothing* critical about WGA. Also, when
this was done- WGA was *beta* software. Microsoft snuck a piece
of beta software onto many computers. Arrogant, irresponsible, foolish
and an absolutely un-trustworthy way to do business.

> Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can read the article & conclude that he is not a
> "pirate".

Exactly.

> What does your post have to do with Vista anyway?. Nothing.

More than you may realize, obviously. Knowledge is your friend.


--
Michael
______
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools,
but that the lightning ain't distributed right."
- Mark Twain


> "MICHAEL" <u158627_emr@dslr.net> wrote in message
> news:OkI2Q7TrGHA.4680@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Paul Thurrott, one of the most important Microsoft advocates, has been bitten by Windows
>> Genuine Advantage. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?s...52221&from=rss
>>
>>
>> http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/wga.asp
>>
>> I've found Microsoft's recent forays into customer relations with Windows Genuine Advantage
>> (WGA) to be somewhat amusing. I mean, after all, Microsoft is a huge company just brimming
>> with really smart people. How could they do something so silly?
>> If you're not up on the WGA saga, here's a recap. Microsoft announced its Genuine Advantage
>> software initiative in March 2006. It's designed as part of the company's wider assault on
>> software piracy (another infamous part of this fight, Product Activation, won fame and
>> fortune for Microsoft went XP was released in late 2001). The Genuine Advantage initiative
>> is comprised of three parts: Education (customers should understand the risks of pirated
>> software), Engineering (Microsoft's ongoing investment in anti-counterfeiting technologies
>> and product features), and Enforcement (Microsoft is helping law enforcement agencies go
>> after the world's worst software pirates).
>>
>> WGA is a component of the Engineering part of that unholy triumvirate. It's a bit of
>> software that gets installed on Windows XP (it's part of Windows Vista right out of the
>> gate, naturally) and is comprised of two components. The first, dubbed WGA Validation,
>> determines whether the version of Windows on which its running is legitimate. The second
>> component, WGA Notifications, displays annoying alerts on pirated Windows copies and
>> provides a way for the user to pay for a legitimate copy of Windows.
>>
>> Aside from basic trust issues--Apple, for example, does not burden users with Product
>> Activation or any similar anti-piracy technologies in its Mac OS X operating
>> system--Microsoft made two major mistakes with WGA. The first was to silently post a beta
>> version of the tool to Windows Update as a Critical Update, thus ensuring that it was
>> quietly and underhandedly installed on hundreds of millions of customers' PCs: I mean,
>> seriously. Is Microsoft honestly making guinea pigs out of its entire user base?
>>
>> The second mistake was that WGA Notifications was also "phoning home" information to
>> Microsoft on a regular basis. That's right: Not only was the software secretly installed on
>> your PC, but it then regularly contacted Microsoft servers and provided them with data about
>> the instances of pirated and nonpirated software out there. Customers and security experts
>> reacted with alarm, as well they should: Microsoft had literally shipped spyware to its
>> customers. Microsoft, meanwhile, reacted as they often do when something like this happens:
>> They made as if nothing serious had happened and acted shocked that anyone could think
>> otherwise. So much for the Glasnost of the consent decree.
>>
>> After a few days of freaking out customers, Microsoft finally changed WGA in mid-June 2006
>> so that it wouldn't phone home every single time a PC rebooted, which is how frequently it
>> had been doing so. Now, WGA will still send back piracy data to Microsoft the first time it
>> tests a system, and then it will only sporadically phone home after that. The company also
>> released a set of instructions for disabling or removing the "pilot" version of WGA though
>> Microsoft contends that the final version of the software, due soon, will not support these
>> activities.
>>
>> After the dust had settled, sort of, I was still sort of curious what WGA looked like on a
>> system that was suspected of being pirated. This week, I got my wish: A copy of Windows XP
>> Media Center Edition 2005, installed in a virtual machine, came up with various WGA alerts
>> after I installed a bunch of updates from Windows Update. Screenshots of this machine can be
>> found below.
>>
>> You're probably wondering how it is that I'm running a pirated copy of Windows. It's a
>> legitimate question.
>>
>> We're all friends here, right?
>>
>> Truthfully, I can only imagine what triggered these alerts. The software was installed to a
>> VM a long time ago and archived on my server. I no doubt used a copy of XP MCE 2005 that I
>> had received as part of my MSDN subscription. If the WGA alerts are to be believed, it's
>> possible that Microsoft thinks I've installed this software on too many machines, though
>> that seems unlikely to me. I can't really say.
>>
>> Anyway, that's what it looks like to be a suspected pirate. Like many people who will see
>> these alerts, I don't believe I did anything wrong. I'm sure that's going to be a common
>> refrain in this new era of untrusting software and companies. Ah well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael
>> ______
>> "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools,
>> but that the lightning ain't distributed right."
>> - Mark Twain
>>
>>
>
>

Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>> I consider Paul Thurrott the Michael Moore of Windows journalism. I
>> hear he's doing a documentary on Microsoft titled "Fahrenheit
>> 1024x768."
>>

Paul Thurrott is one of the few journalists out there that actually still
supports Microsoft. And even he is beginning to find all this checking and
checking and checking and snitching and kill swtiching embarrassing. It's
like one can't speak positively anymore because the opponents can show that
Microsoft in recent times treats its customers as if we are all busy
theiving. Funny, wot, because it's Microsoft customers that have made
Microsoft so bloody rich - almost all without WGA at that - go figure.

I'm drawing the line in the sand for me - as much as I enjoy Microsoft stuff
and have shunned the rest .. and have done so since 1985 - and that line is
forced WGA N. I will not use Microsoft principally if they force that
spyware/trojan/kill-switch on me. I won't.

I really hope Microsoft listens to this customer and backs off.

"MICHAEL" <u158627_emr@dslr.net> wrote in message
news:%23S$JXvYrGHA.1848@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

There is *nothing* critical about WGA.


Depends on your perspective. From the Accounting folks in Redmond, this
probably is a critical update...

"Ground Cover" <ground@cover.internet> wrote in message
news:u9cHAqYrGHA.2256@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> MICHAEL wrote:
>
>>>
>>> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...657241&tid=109
>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=84
>>> Is Microsoft about to release a Windows "kill switch"?
>>> by Ed Bott
>
>
> Will the Windows Kill Switch kill Windows?
>
> The temptation to jump ship gets greater and greater. I didn't like WPA but
> eventually accepted it as OK. I hardly minded WGA when one first had to
> submit to a check to get new software. That seemed ..OK as well, hey, they
> are handing out stuff and they don't want too much piracy.
>
> But WGA N is a remote control trojan and spyware to boot. If Microsoft
> forces that spyware trojan on me I know my principle machine would be
> switched over to Linux [it's amazing how well RedHat Fedora Core 5 installed
> on a friend's machine - heck it even catches sound cards, which Windows
> almost never does, and all the NICs - which Windows almost never does -
> scary].
>
> But, yes, I would be loathed to do it. I hate Linux. I love Windows. But I'm
> getting sick of all the checks. WPA checks at every boot. WGA checks God
> knows when - probably constantly - and now the humilation of WGA N not only
> checking but filing a report on me and readying itself to shut me down on
> one word from Microsoft.

There is no proof Microsoft has/will implement a "kill-switch". Microsoft's
problem, as usual, is that they are always so slow to admit anything- just
like politicians.

I, too, love Microsoft products. I have fallen for Vista. But, I am amazed
at what people just willingly accept now as a proper way to do business.
When Sony snuck rootkits onto users' machines via CDs, that was reprehensible
and there was a tremendous backlash, deservedly so. Microsoft really
did the same thing. What makes it worse, in my book, Microsoft should have
known better. Sadly, there are those who defend such under-handed tactics.


-Michael

"Mark D. VandenBeg" <mvan103@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OStnhzYrGHA.1976@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> "MICHAEL" <u158627_emr@dslr.net> wrote in message
> news:%23S$JXvYrGHA.1848@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> There is *nothing* critical about WGA.
>
>
> Depends on your perspective. From the Accounting folks in Redmond, this probably is a
> critical update...

True. But just as with the whole DRM crap- this will do *nothing* to
stop the *real* software pirates. Nothing.


-Michael

"MICHAEL" <u158627_emr@dslr.net> wrote in message
news:%23e8$D6YrGHA.4660@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...>
> True. But just as with the whole DRM crap- this will do *nothing* to
> stop the *real* software pirates. Nothing.
>
>
> -Michael

Not necessarily. If an individual downloads an MP3 and it stops working,
that person likely will go download another one. Besides, it's a dollar.
If the same person buys a computer from a retail store and then finds out
their copy of Windows is not genuine, I imagine he or she would be angry
enough to give the information to MSFT. If you notice, MSFT just sued 26
different companies last week for this exact reason, possibly WGA helping
the cause a little.

I'm not advocating its use, either, and I am loathe to have it on my little
network because it is by definition, spyware. But I at least am trying to
keep an open enough mind to at least try to understand why they did this,
even if I don't like it.

"Ground Cover" <ground@cover.internet> wrote in message
news:%23TYM%23wYrGHA.5032@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Colin Barnhorst wrote:
>>> I consider Paul Thurrott the Michael Moore of Windows journalism. I
>>> hear he's doing a documentary on Microsoft titled "Fahrenheit
>>> 1024x768."
>>>
>
> Paul Thurrott is one of the few journalists out there that actually still
> supports Microsoft. And even he is beginning to find all this checking and
> checking and checking and snitching and kill swtiching embarrassing. It's
> like one can't speak positively anymore because the opponents can show that
> Microsoft in recent times treats its customers as if we are all busy
> theiving. Funny, wot, because it's Microsoft customers that have made
> Microsoft so bloody rich - almost all without WGA at that - go figure.
>
> I'm drawing the line in the sand for me - as much as I enjoy Microsoft stuff
> and have shunned the rest .. and have done so since 1985 - and that line is
> forced WGA N. I will not use Microsoft principally if they force that
> spyware/trojan/kill-switch on me. I won't.

This topic may not be totally on topic, but some are just so
embarrassed for Microsoft they just want the whole situation
to disappear. It makes them uncomfortable to face the truth.
The easiest way to do that, is not to talk about it. Or, quickly
dismiss those who do.

> I really hope Microsoft listens to this customer and backs off.

Doubtful. Microsoft is convinced this will help stop piracy of
their software. It won't even come close to stopping the software
pirates. It won't even come close to putting a dent in the tons
of illegal software coming out of China and Russia and other places.
Just like the whole dumb DRM crap.


-Michael