Vista - Work around Sil 3x12 SATA RAID chipsets and Vista; Gigabyte to take the lead in supporting legacy Silicon Image 3x12 SATA RAID chipsets after friendly wake up call's

Hi everybody

Somewhere down the line it was doubted by a Microsoft MVP that 4 year old
motherboards with a legacy Silicon Image 3x12 SATA RAID controller would be
supported under Vista.

Now that would be rather unexpected in the USA indeed, but The Netherlands
and the European Union as a whole for that matter have different rules.

Recent court cases support enhanced support of products, long after the
warranty period has expired!

Another aspect of this case are European liability rules. In the Netherlands
that is called ''De wet ketenaansprakelijkheid''. If your wondering how to
pronounce that, rent K-911, a splendid movie! :-)

In plain English that means that the producer of a driver that was embedded
in other products and responsible for damage can be sued directly.

MVP comment:

<<The computer industry just doesn't work
that way. There is not enough profit in a product to develop for it after
you quit manufacturing it.
>>

I know, thats whý law enforcement has been invented. Dutch consumer
organisations have been rather effective in enforcing rules about product
continuation., backed up by the European Union.

That's why I have been carefull investing in own software development
projects and specially carefull about what is put in SLA's.

Watch out to restrict liability to heavy for a product that really gets
popular because that's really inviting the legal sharks for breakfast :-).
That won't be breakfast at Tiffany's :-).

Gigabyte

As a matter of fact, after some friendly wakeup calls Gigabyte Taiwan
decided to support the Silicon Image 3x12 SATA I RAID chipsets after the
region manager Benelux and Nordics had been explained what consqeuences not
deleviring drivers would have.

As Gigabyte is also producing for renowned brands this means a significant
expansion of devices supported by Vista

This is my wrap up of the case:

Gigabyte takes the lead in legacy support for Vista drivers

Although it is the distribution responsibility of motherboard manufacturers
like Gigabyte and Abit to supply a customized SATA Vista driver for the
Silicon Image 3x12 (and later versions), they have to wait for Silicon Image
microcode before they can adapt that code and recompile a dedicated driver
for all involved legacy or near legacy motherboards.

Gigabyte is the first to make a statement indicating that as soon as Silicon
Image delivers the microcode, Gigabyte will start customization for the
Silicon Image 3x12 RAID controllers. See attached statement from Gigabyte
Taiwan.

This is of course slightly more then changing the .inf, but definitely not a
long process.

Microsoft should be happy with Gigabyte, as the usefulness of much useful
legacy or near legacy equipment is extended by this and makes involved
equipment suitable for a Windows Platform upgrade.



Meanwhile owners of Sil 3x12 chipsets should take a couple of things into
consideration when using Vista beta's with embedded versions of a Silicon
Image Sil 3x12 SATA RAID chipset.



Seven steps to an sane Vista system with the Silicon Image 3x12 SATA RAID
controller J

1.. Download the Silicon Image base version (when only 1 disk is attached
to the SATA controllerattached) and Raid driver (when attaching two drives
regardless of the fact that they are in a non raid configuration or else)
from the Silicon Image website and expand these drivers to an USB stick
2.. Boot from the Vista beta dvd
3.. Have the base or raid (with a r extension) driver ready on an USB
stick attached to the system
4.. load the base or raid driver during a clean install of Vista beta2 (I
used build 5472) on to an classic ATA boot disk partition
5.. The Vista install will immediately see the SATA disks, thus preventing
a later mix up of drive letters
6.. Silicon Image (or any mobo manufacturer) does not recommend this while
the driver is originally designed for Silicon Image own pci 3x12 SATA Raid
controllers, not for embedded systems like on motherboards, but it works so
far
7.. Check Vista's version of Windows update on a regular basis. All
suppliers that have their -Signed and Windows Vista Logo compatible- Vista
drivers ready will post them for distribution through the Microsoft Windows
Update system.
<Gigabyte Taiwan statement:

"As for the issue upon Silicon Imgae RAID 3112 chipset of not able to
support VISTA Beta:

1) Vista Beta is not an official release retail OS, its major purpose is for
Hardware / Software manufacturers to validate their products. And of course,
during this validation period uncompatible issues might be found.

2) When uncompatible issues are found, it is confirmed either/both Microsoft
or Silicon Image are responsible to find solutions. When there are new
solutions drivers available
the chipset vendor will then provide to us. After that we will definitly
provide the new drivers on our website for end-user to update."

Kind regards,

Tony Thijs

Oriolus:

But MS does not make the motherboard or the drivers for them.

"Tony Thijs" <tonythecatmiauw@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:ukvzkGFuGHA.4252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Hi everybody
>
> Somewhere down the line it was doubted by a Microsoft MVP that 4 year old
> motherboards with a legacy Silicon Image 3x12 SATA RAID controller would
> be supported under Vista.
>
> Now that would be rather unexpected in the USA indeed, but The Netherlands
> and the European Union as a whole for that matter have different rules.
>
> Recent court cases support enhanced support of products, long after the
> warranty period has expired!
>
> Another aspect of this case are European liability rules. In the
> Netherlands that is called ''De wet ketenaansprakelijkheid''. If your
> wondering how to pronounce that, rent K-911, a splendid movie! :-)
>
> In plain English that means that the producer of a driver that was
> embedded in other products and responsible for damage can be sued
> directly.
>
> MVP comment:
>
> <<The computer industry just doesn't work
> that way. There is not enough profit in a product to develop for it after
> you quit manufacturing it.
>>>
>
> I know, thats whý law enforcement has been invented. Dutch consumer
> organisations have been rather effective in enforcing rules about product
> continuation., backed up by the European Union.
>
> That's why I have been carefull investing in own software development
> projects and specially carefull about what is put in SLA's.
>
> Watch out to restrict liability to heavy for a product that really gets
> popular because that's really inviting the legal sharks for breakfast :-).
> That won't be breakfast at Tiffany's :-).
>
> Gigabyte
>
> As a matter of fact, after some friendly wakeup calls Gigabyte Taiwan
> decided to support the Silicon Image 3x12 SATA I RAID chipsets after the
> region manager Benelux and Nordics had been explained what consqeuences
> not deleviring drivers would have.
>
> As Gigabyte is also producing for renowned brands this means a
> significant expansion of devices supported by Vista
>
> This is my wrap up of the case:
>
> Gigabyte takes the lead in legacy support for Vista drivers
>
> Although it is the distribution responsibility of motherboard
> manufacturers like Gigabyte and Abit to supply a customized SATA Vista
> driver for the Silicon Image 3x12 (and later versions), they have to wait
> for Silicon Image microcode before they can adapt that code and recompile
> a dedicated driver for all involved legacy or near legacy motherboards.
>
> Gigabyte is the first to make a statement indicating that as soon as
> Silicon Image delivers the microcode, Gigabyte will start customization
> for the Silicon Image 3x12 RAID controllers. See attached statement from
> Gigabyte Taiwan.
>
> This is of course slightly more then changing the .inf, but definitely not
> a long process.
>
> Microsoft should be happy with Gigabyte, as the usefulness of much useful
> legacy or near legacy equipment is extended by this and makes involved
> equipment suitable for a Windows Platform upgrade.
>
>
>
> Meanwhile owners of Sil 3x12 chipsets should take a couple of things into
> consideration when using Vista beta's with embedded versions of a Silicon
> Image Sil 3x12 SATA RAID chipset.
>
>
>
> Seven steps to an sane Vista system with the Silicon Image 3x12 SATA RAID
> controller J
>
> 1.. Download the Silicon Image base version (when only 1 disk is attached
> to the SATA controllerattached) and Raid driver (when attaching two drives
> regardless of the fact that they are in a non raid configuration or else)
> from the Silicon Image website and expand these drivers to an USB stick
> 2.. Boot from the Vista beta dvd
> 3.. Have the base or raid (with a r extension) driver ready on an USB
> stick attached to the system
> 4.. load the base or raid driver during a clean install of Vista beta2 (I
> used build 5472) on to an classic ATA boot disk partition
> 5.. The Vista install will immediately see the SATA disks, thus
> preventing a later mix up of drive letters
> 6.. Silicon Image (or any mobo manufacturer) does not recommend this
> while the driver is originally designed for Silicon Image own pci 3x12
> SATA Raid controllers, not for embedded systems like on motherboards, but
> it works so far
> 7.. Check Vista's version of Windows update on a regular basis. All
> suppliers that have their -Signed and Windows Vista Logo compatible- Vista
> drivers ready will post them for distribution through the Microsoft
> Windows Update system.
> <Gigabyte Taiwan statement:
>
> "As for the issue upon Silicon Imgae RAID 3112 chipset of not able to
> support VISTA Beta:
>
> 1) Vista Beta is not an official release retail OS, its major purpose is
> for Hardware / Software manufacturers to validate their products. And of
> course,
> during this validation period uncompatible issues might be found.
>
> 2) When uncompatible issues are found, it is confirmed either/both
> Microsoft or Silicon Image are responsible to find solutions. When there
> are new solutions drivers available
> the chipset vendor will then provide to us. After that we will
> definitly provide the new drivers on our website for end-user to update."
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Tony Thijs
>
> Oriolus:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Silicon Image does and then provides a basic driver to Gigabyte which
Gigabyte has to test and sign with a Gigabyte signature.
There are documented statements from Silicon Image stating that the
motherborad manufacturers are responsible for final delivery and quality of
the driver.
At the end of the ride Microsoft adds the signed driver to Windows Update.
MS only has to respond to issues brought up by Silicon Image while
developing the core of the driver.
Kind regards,
Tony Thijs

"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
news:eoyQbeKuGHA.452@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> But MS does not make the motherboard or the drivers for them.
>
> "Tony Thijs" <tonythecatmiauw@community.nospam> wrote in message
> news:ukvzkGFuGHA.4252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Hi everybody
>>
>> Somewhere down the line it was doubted by a Microsoft MVP that 4 year old
>> motherboards with a legacy Silicon Image 3x12 SATA RAID controller would
>> be supported under Vista.
>>
>> Now that would be rather unexpected in the USA indeed, but The
>> Netherlands and the European Union as a whole for that matter have
>> different rules.
>>
>> Recent court cases support enhanced support of products, long after the
>> warranty period has expired!
>>
>> Another aspect of this case are European liability rules. In the
>> Netherlands that is called ''De wet ketenaansprakelijkheid''. If your
>> wondering how to pronounce that, rent K-911, a splendid movie! :-)
>>
>> In plain English that means that the producer of a driver that was
>> embedded in other products and responsible for damage can be sued
>> directly.
>>
>> MVP comment:
>>
>> <<The computer industry just doesn't work
>> that way. There is not enough profit in a product to develop for it after
>> you quit manufacturing it.
>>>>
>>
>> I know, thats whý law enforcement has been invented. Dutch consumer
>> organisations have been rather effective in enforcing rules about product
>> continuation., backed up by the European Union.
>>
>> That's why I have been carefull investing in own software development
>> projects and specially carefull about what is put in SLA's.
>>
>> Watch out to restrict liability to heavy for a product that really gets
>> popular because that's really inviting the legal sharks for breakfast
>> :-). That won't be breakfast at Tiffany's :-).
>>
>> Gigabyte
>>
>> As a matter of fact, after some friendly wakeup calls Gigabyte Taiwan
>> decided to support the Silicon Image 3x12 SATA I RAID chipsets after the
>> region manager Benelux and Nordics had been explained what consqeuences
>> not deleviring drivers would have.
>>
>> As Gigabyte is also producing for renowned brands this means a
>> significant expansion of devices supported by Vista
>>
>> This is my wrap up of the case:
>>
>> Gigabyte takes the lead in legacy support for Vista drivers
>>
>> Although it is the distribution responsibility of motherboard
>> manufacturers like Gigabyte and Abit to supply a customized SATA Vista
>> driver for the Silicon Image 3x12 (and later versions), they have to wait
>> for Silicon Image microcode before they can adapt that code and recompile
>> a dedicated driver for all involved legacy or near legacy motherboards.
>>
>> Gigabyte is the first to make a statement indicating that as soon as
>> Silicon Image delivers the microcode, Gigabyte will start customization
>> for the Silicon Image 3x12 RAID controllers. See attached statement from
>> Gigabyte Taiwan.
>>
>> This is of course slightly more then changing the .inf, but definitely
>> not a long process.
>>
>> Microsoft should be happy with Gigabyte, as the usefulness of much useful
>> legacy or near legacy equipment is extended by this and makes involved
>> equipment suitable for a Windows Platform upgrade.
>>
>>
>>
>> Meanwhile owners of Sil 3x12 chipsets should take a couple of things into
>> consideration when using Vista beta's with embedded versions of a Silicon
>> Image Sil 3x12 SATA RAID chipset.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seven steps to an sane Vista system with the Silicon Image 3x12 SATA RAID
>> controller J
>>
>> 1.. Download the Silicon Image base version (when only 1 disk is
>> attached to the SATA controllerattached) and Raid driver (when attaching
>> two drives regardless of the fact that they are in a non raid
>> configuration or else) from the Silicon Image website and expand these
>> drivers to an USB stick
>> 2.. Boot from the Vista beta dvd
>> 3.. Have the base or raid (with a r extension) driver ready on an USB
>> stick attached to the system
>> 4.. load the base or raid driver during a clean install of Vista beta2
>> (I used build 5472) on to an classic ATA boot disk partition
>> 5.. The Vista install will immediately see the SATA disks, thus
>> preventing a later mix up of drive letters
>> 6.. Silicon Image (or any mobo manufacturer) does not recommend this
>> while the driver is originally designed for Silicon Image own pci 3x12
>> SATA Raid controllers, not for embedded systems like on motherboards, but
>> it works so far
>> 7.. Check Vista's version of Windows update on a regular basis. All
>> suppliers that have their -Signed and Windows Vista Logo compatible-
>> Vista drivers ready will post them for distribution through the Microsoft
>> Windows Update system.
>> <Gigabyte Taiwan statement:
>>
>> "As for the issue upon Silicon Imgae RAID 3112 chipset of not able to
>> support VISTA Beta:
>>
>> 1) Vista Beta is not an official release retail OS, its major purpose is
>> for Hardware / Software manufacturers to validate their products. And of
>> course,
>> during this validation period uncompatible issues might be found.
>>
>> 2) When uncompatible issues are found, it is confirmed either/both
>> Microsoft or Silicon Image are responsible to find solutions. When there
>> are new solutions drivers available
>> the chipset vendor will then provide to us. After that we will
>> definitly provide the new drivers on our website for end-user to update."
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Tony Thijs
>>
>> Oriolus:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Tony Thijs wrote:
>
> <<The computer industry just doesn't work
> that way. There is not enough profit in a product to develop for it after
> you quit manufacturing it.
>
> I know, thats whý law enforcement has been invented. Dutch consumer
> organisations have been rather effective in enforcing rules about product
> continuation., backed up by the European Union.

The first statement that you quote is based on a falsity and the people
who really benefit from the second one cash in on it probably after
spreading the false idea in the first place.

Factually there is not enough profit in any way of operating so cheaply
that it leaves your market with something useless. All successful
businesses try as hard as they can to keep their customers as happy as
they possibly can. The European Union of Wannabe Socialist Soviet
Republic is completely unnecessary to "protect" consumers. Any company
that doesn't keep their customers happy goes out of business very
rapidly because their customers desert them and there will always be
another company who will take their place with superior quality.

<<Any company
that doesn't keep their customers happy goes out of business very
rapidly because their customers desert them>>

I agree. But there might be a significant difference in computer literacy
between USA politicians and end users on one side and the same group in the
European union.
A very recent Dutch governmental report for example deemed most of the
educational staff in the Netherlands digitally illiterate.
I've been into countrywide ICT projects in Dutch education since the early
nineties and allthough the Netherlands is rather computer savy, politicians
and alpha's are are in general nothing of the sort
I did not agree with the first quote either, allthough a MVP had placed that
quote online
Actually I don't mind writing of things fast as long as I'm told on forehand
that that is the purpose of the product.
The whole discussion started around a motherboard that was on sale last
year, now is rated 2.0 on the Vista performance scale and was rated fully
Vista ready by the Microsoft upgrade advisor.
I've been busy for weeks getting a sensible reaction from the manufacturer,
or at least some perspective in whether they would post a Vista upgrade for
the Sil 3x12 chipset or not.
Only after some ,,happy slapping'' they yielded.
In my opinion they would not have dared to do so in the USA and just tried
to get away with it.
<<The European Union of Wannabe Socialist Soviet Republic>>
Very nicely found! Lost of people will agree but with that, but considering
the level of digital illiteracy of the Euriopean Union, some degree of
watchdogging is sometimes necessary.
Most people in Holland have never been educated concerning IT in a
consistent and efficient way, especially current upper management.
For example, during the first days of a project my director told me:,,I hope
you realize that what you will advise as an architecture will come from the
future as we want to use it for a decade.
That means that nothing you will introduce to the company I was told about
at management school!
My answer was a paper with all the new SPSS definitions in the field of
e-econometrics, that put her at ease again, they build my proposal and are
very happy now.
One last example: One head of information management told me recently:,,Then
we did not know anymore what to do or where to go with our systems. The only
thing we knew was that you would find a solution,'' she concluded.
I can fill many pages with these kind of examples underlining that it is
very hard for IT people to forget everything we know and start thinking as
an end user :-).
So when a supplier is evading its responsibilities you sometimes need a
stick and the bigger the company, the bigger the stick you need :-). That's
more or less congruent with what an uncle of me told me about hunting wild
boars.
,,They love you for a meal too,'' he told me:-) and taught me all about
overkill and the need for 12 gauge double barrel shotguns at point blank
range.
Kind regards,
Tony Thijs

"Bernie" <bernie@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:u%23AEGMMuGHA.1288@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Tony Thijs wrote:
>>
>> <<The computer industry just doesn't work
>> that way. There is not enough profit in a product to develop for it after
>> you quit manufacturing it.
>>
>> I know, thats whý law enforcement has been invented. Dutch consumer
>> organisations have been rather effective in enforcing rules about product
>> continuation., backed up by the European Union.
>
> The first statement that you quote is based on a falsity and the people
> who really benefit from the second one cash in on it probably after
> spreading the false idea in the first place.
>
> Factually there is not enough profit in any way of operating so cheaply
> that it leaves your market with something useless. All successful
> businesses try as hard as they can to keep their customers as happy as
> they possibly can. The European Union of Wannabe Socialist Soviet Republic
> is completely unnecessary to "protect" consumers. Any company that doesn't
> keep their customers happy goes out of business very rapidly because their
> customers desert them and there will always be another company who will
> take their place with superior quality.