Vista - Vista EULA - transfer once - good!

I say discuss it in every single Microsoft forum, every tech forum,
and contact Microsoft. If an MVP doesn't like the discussion here-
they can tune it out.

The more that know, the better.


-Michael


"Mario Rosario" <mario@webare.com> wrote in message
news:8B235CCB-40E4-4FFC-A123-29641E655C27@microsoft.com...
> No, I think this is precisely the place to discuss this. There are no other forums that
> Microsoft can get a better feedback.
>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23gpzzD08GHA.4224@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> If you do not like Vista licensing, by all means let Microsoft know.
>> But, these peer to peer newsgroups are not the place if you want Microsoft to get your
>> message.
>> Microsoft may not get the message if you only voice your opinion here.
>>
>> Here is a good place to start:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/contact...rt/?ws=support
>>
>> --
>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>
>>
>> "Mario Rosario" <mario@webare.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23ohimez8GHA.2248@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> Maybe we ought to let Microsoft know that we're not happy with that 1000 times.
>>
>>
>>
>

I feel beta testers (for any MS products) are idiots including myself.

This is what people get - you spend lots of time and efforts including risks
of damaging your data and systems on beta testing for telling them where are
bugs and important features that they couldn't possibly think of it, and at
the end of the day - this is the best deal for what you've got.

This company used to inspire me but now is a total stranger to me. So this
what I will do and maybe you should think about how to teach this company to
listening to consumers. Of course, you might think differently if you are
depended on the company for living either directly or indirectly.

(1) I will withdraw all my beta programs, and fortunately, I only have a few
of them.

(2) I will stop participating on any surveys from the company for the user
feedbacks and possible new features including personal behavior on using
many applications. I've been doing all types of surveys for helping them
for many years.

(3) I will search and evaluate more aggressively on alternative solutions.

(4) I will use alternative solutions whenever possible.

(5) I will buy extra copies of XP licenses for the next few years and will
not buy any Vista at all possibilities.

(6) As an opinion leader, I will let people around me also know this issue
and advise them to be prepared early and to stay away the new OS at all
costs.

I am not a devoted Linux user who might be an MS hater, but I think this
company has finally crossed the line. First the WGA acting as a spyware and
now is this type of restriction.

Next time, we will get a security camera when we bought the new application
or OS that monitoring if we have changed anything.

If you truly "love" this company and wish it back to spend more time and
efforts on developing innovative and creative products for wining customers
instead of using this type of tricks, you might need to do something too.

Of course, you can choose to spoil it or tolerate it because you need to
depend it for living.

"xfile" <cou-cou@remove.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%23ARkJ9x8GHA.3552@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> According to ZDNET, "retail" copy of Vista can only be transferred to a
> new machine ONCE, and after that, you will need to buy a new one.
>
> But it doesn't say what constitutes a new machine, and maybe the old
> count - a new MB is also a NEW machine.
>
> If that's true, that means when we bought the new OS, we'd better to pray
> our MB never broken.
>
> Ha ha ha, funny. I guess MS has been working so hard to convince me not
> to buy the new OS.
>
>
>

While your suggestions 3 - 5 are reasonable ways to make MS know that you're
displeased (vote with your dollar, and educating others), suggestions 1 and
2 are counter-productive if you want to actually see some improvements. How
will they know that you (and others) are wanting changes if you don't tell
them? How will they know why people aren't buying Vista? It's like people
deciding not to vote because they don't like the way the government is
spending their money; you're basically giving up your right to tell them
what you want them to do.

IMHO, YMMV, etc

Clint

"xfile" <cou-cou@remove.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uFrnnn38GHA.4408@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>I feel beta testers (for any MS products) are idiots including myself.
>
> This is what people get - you spend lots of time and efforts including
> risks of damaging your data and systems on beta testing for telling them
> where are bugs and important features that they couldn't possibly think of
> it, and at the end of the day - this is the best deal for what you've got.
>
> This company used to inspire me but now is a total stranger to me. So
> this what I will do and maybe you should think about how to teach this
> company to listening to consumers. Of course, you might think differently
> if you are depended on the company for living either directly or
> indirectly.
>
> (1) I will withdraw all my beta programs, and fortunately, I only have a
> few of them.
>
> (2) I will stop participating on any surveys from the company for the user
> feedbacks and possible new features including personal behavior on using
> many applications. I've been doing all types of surveys for helping them
> for many years.
>
> (3) I will search and evaluate more aggressively on alternative solutions.
>
> (4) I will use alternative solutions whenever possible.
>
> (5) I will buy extra copies of XP licenses for the next few years and will
> not buy any Vista at all possibilities.
>
> (6) As an opinion leader, I will let people around me also know this issue
> and advise them to be prepared early and to stay away the new OS at all
> costs.
>
> I am not a devoted Linux user who might be an MS hater, but I think this
> company has finally crossed the line. First the WGA acting as a spyware
> and now is this type of restriction.
>
> Next time, we will get a security camera when we bought the new
> application or OS that monitoring if we have changed anything.
>
> If you truly "love" this company and wish it back to spend more time and
> efforts on developing innovative and creative products for wining
> customers instead of using this type of tricks, you might need to do
> something too.
>
> Of course, you can choose to spoil it or tolerate it because you need to
> depend it for living.
>
> "xfile" <cou-cou@remove.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:%23ARkJ9x8GHA.3552@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> According to ZDNET, "retail" copy of Vista can only be transferred to a
>> new machine ONCE, and after that, you will need to buy a new one.
>>
>> But it doesn't say what constitutes a new machine, and maybe the old
>> count - a new MB is also a NEW machine.
>>
>> If that's true, that means when we bought the new OS, we'd better to pray
>> our MB never broken.
>>
>> Ha ha ha, funny. I guess MS has been working so hard to convince me not
>> to buy the new OS.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

But Microsoft personal seldom show up here, and they may not be decision
makers. There is great talk amongst ourselves. A great deal of help that
will be, you think? This is not as direct a conduit to the company as many
would think.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"xfile" <cou-cou@remove.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uYAlEd38GHA.4964@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Because a forum, by definition, is a place where people can exchange and
> share their ideas and thoughts, whether agreed or disagreed, but more
> people would have the opportunity to learn some ideas and thoughts that
> may not come to their mind.
>
> The survey or suggestion is only a "one way" communication channel in
> which you submit your thought and it's based on their discretion to act on
> it or not. What's more important is only you and the other party know
> while others may not know.
>
>
> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OhM7PW18GHA.2120@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Why would you think that?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard Urban
>> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
>> (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
>>
>> Quote from George Ankner:
>> If you knew as much as you think you know,
>> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>>
>> "Mario Rosario" <mario@webare.com> wrote in message
>> news:8B235CCB-40E4-4FFC-A123-29641E655C27@microsoft.com...
>>> No, I think this is precisely the place to discuss this. There are no
>>> other forums that Microsoft can get a better feedback.
>>>
>>> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23gpzzD08GHA.4224@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> If you do not like Vista licensing, by all means let Microsoft know.
>>>> But, these peer to peer newsgroups are not the place if you want
>>>> Microsoft to get your message.
>>>> Microsoft may not get the message if you only voice your opinion here.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a good place to start:
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/contact...rt/?ws=support
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>>>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mario Rosario" <mario@webare.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23ohimez8GHA.2248@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Maybe we ought to let Microsoft know that we're not happy with that
>>>>> 1000 times.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OhM7PW18GHA.2120@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Why would you think that?
>

For one thing, the newsgroup is vista.general, not
please.help.me.with.my.vista.installation.

Second, this is a forum provided by Microsoft for Microsoft users, this is
street talk for them. I also get tired of reading the same help messages 100
times.

Third, we are vista customers, we are the enthusiasts, we are the
overclockers, we pay megadollars to support it, although corporations spend
more. We should not let the product stray from it's core values. We've see
it happen with Apple, they were dominant in the 80s, but dwindled down to
9/10 tenths of the market share. They lost sight of who were the folks that
help made them big. But I think Apple is capable of regaining a significant
market share if Microsoft takes this EULA approach, because they are taking
the "fun" out of Vista. There is nothing Vista can do that XP can't do for a
fraction of the cost.

I can go on.

> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban
> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

< rest deleted>

If the issue is big enough, the right people will hear about it. In order
for an issue to be big, the user base must react strongly.

"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Os7LM948GHA.3384@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> But Microsoft personal seldom show up here, and they may not be decision
> makers. There is great talk amongst ourselves. A great deal of help that
> will be, you think? This is not as direct a conduit to the company as many
> would think.
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban
> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
> (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
>
> Quote from George Ankner:
> If you knew as much as you think you know,
> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>
> "xfile" <cou-cou@remove.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uYAlEd38GHA.4964@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Because a forum, by definition, is a place where people can exchange and
>> share their ideas and thoughts, whether agreed or disagreed, but more
>> people would have the opportunity to learn some ideas and thoughts that
>> may not come to their mind.
>>
>> The survey or suggestion is only a "one way" communication channel in
>> which you submit your thought and it's based on their discretion to act
>> on it or not. What's more important is only you and the other party know
>> while others may not know.
>>
>>
>> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:OhM7PW18GHA.2120@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Why would you think that?
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Richard Urban
>>> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
>>> (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
>>>
>>> Quote from George Ankner:
>>> If you knew as much as you think you know,
>>> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>>>
>>> "Mario Rosario" <mario@webare.com> wrote in message
>>> news:8B235CCB-40E4-4FFC-A123-29641E655C27@microsoft.com...
>>>> No, I think this is precisely the place to discuss this. There are no
>>>> other forums that Microsoft can get a better feedback.
>>>>
>>>> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23gpzzD08GHA.4224@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>> If you do not like Vista licensing, by all means let Microsoft know.
>>>>> But, these peer to peer newsgroups are not the place if you want
>>>>> Microsoft to get your message.
>>>>> Microsoft may not get the message if you only voice your opinion here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is a good place to start:
>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/contact...rt/?ws=support
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
>>>>> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>>>>> http://www.dts-l.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mario Rosario" <mario@webare.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%23ohimez8GHA.2248@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Maybe we ought to let Microsoft know that we're not happy with that
>>>>>> 1000 times.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Unfortunately, the number of Retail copies is relatively small, and the
number of Retail users that change 2 mobo's (except for defects) within the
3-5 year life cycle is super small.

"Mario Rosario" <mario@webare.com> wrote in message
news:2DF68D6D-2489-4549-83EB-80BECD8D23E8@microsoft.com...
>
> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OhM7PW18GHA.2120@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Why would you think that?
>>
>
> For one thing, the newsgroup is vista.general, not
> please.help.me.with.my.vista.installation.
>
> Second, this is a forum provided by Microsoft for Microsoft users, this is
> street talk for them. I also get tired of reading the same help messages
> 100 times.
>
> Third, we are vista customers, we are the enthusiasts, we are the
> overclockers, we pay megadollars to support it, although corporations
> spend more. We should not let the product stray from it's core values.
> We've see it happen with Apple, they were dominant in the 80s, but
> dwindled down to 9/10 tenths of the market share. They lost sight of who
> were the folks that help made them big. But I think Apple is capable of
> regaining a significant market share if Microsoft takes this EULA
> approach, because they are taking the "fun" out of Vista. There is nothing
> Vista can do that XP can't do for a fraction of the cost.
>
> I can go on.
>
>> --
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard Urban
>> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
>
> < rest deleted>

I agree, it's too restrictive !

I don't care how small the percentage is if this happens to me:

Suppose I installed Vista on my P4 socket 478 machine, three months later I
didn't like the performance. I upgraded my motherboard to a core 2 duo. Then
the motherboard crapped out.

Now it is going to cost me $200 for a new motherboard and $400 for a new
Vista license or reinstall it on my old motherboard? Microsoft will not
yield since it's in the EULA.

You can say it doesn't happen, I bought an $200 ATI graphics card and it
crapped out withing 4 months. Now it will cost me additional $15 to send it
in for repairs under warranty. I am not happy. It doesn't matter how small
the probability is. When it happens to you, it sucks.

"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:%232aYqT58GHA.4708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Unfortunately, the number of Retail copies is relatively small, and the
> number of Retail users that change 2 mobo's (except for defects) within
> the 3-5 year life cycle is super small.
>

>I don't care how small the percentage is if this happens to me:

I agree, but we still represent an inconsequential revenue stream to
Microsoft
>
> Suppose I installed Vista on my P4 socket 478 machine, three months later
> I didn't like the performance. I upgraded my motherboard to a core 2 duo.
> Then the motherboard crapped out.

That has been an exception in the past and I'm sure that will continue to
be. Replacement of a defective board has been allowed explicitly, but of
course they can even change that but not likely. That has been the same for
OEM copies also.
>
> Now it is going to cost me $200 for a new motherboard and $400 for a new
> Vista license or reinstall it on my old motherboard? Microsoft will not
> yield since it's in the EULA.

See above re exception.
>
> You can say it doesn't happen, I bought an $200 ATI graphics card and it
> crapped out withing 4 months. Now it will cost me additional $15 to send
> it in for repairs under warranty. I am not happy. It doesn't matter how
> small the probability is. When it happens to you, it sucks.
>

Again see exception for defective boards.