Vista - Vista EULA - transfer once - good!

I think retail sales are more important than you might think-
especially, at product launch. After a couple of years, then
the spread between OEM and retail becomes even larger
as users replace their computers. Let's say retail sales now
represent around 10% of the total WinXP licenses sold-
that is still a staggering figure when you consider worldwide
numbers.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...mentum1pr.mspx
Windows XP Is Flying Off The Shelves!
New Operating System is Creating Early Holiday Excitement
REDMOND, Wash., Nov. 8, 2001 — Since its retail debut Oct. 25, Microsoft Corp.'s newest
operating system, Windows® XP, is achieving high demand worldwide. So high that some retailers
are having trouble keeping store shelves stocked with Windows XP. Growing consumer demand for
Windows XP has led to sales that are exceeding initial sales of Windows 95 and Windows
Millennium Edition (Windows Me) and keeping pace with initial sales of Windows 98.

"We are extremely pleased with the enthusiastic response from our customers," said Chris Jones,
vice president for Windows at Microsoft. "We see Windows XP as being a positive catalyst for a
great holiday season for the entire PC industry."

"In a survey of major retailers in large markets across the country, we have found that 62
percent have reported that Windows XP is selling as expected or better," said Alan Davis,
analyst at McAdams Wright Ragen Inc. "Overall, we are finding that retailers are optimistic
about sales of Windows XP and the prospects leading into the holiday season."

Along with retail sales of Windows XP, sales of new personal computers, peripherals and
devices, and software applications have been boosted by excitement around Windows XP. According
to NPD INTELECT, total retail software sales have climbed more than 50 percent in the week
following the launch of Windows XP.

http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/s...-11comdex.aspx

Closer to home, Microsoft just two weeks ago put out Windows XP. It was a very important launch
for us, as important as the initial launch of Windows or the launch of Windows 95 that brought
us into the 32-bit era.

With all the uncertainty, we weren’t sure what the sales would be like, what the OEM sales
would be like, what the retail sales would be like. Now, two weeks later, we have that data.
Our OEM sales are far beyond any new product we’ve ever had. Our retail sales are more than
double any version of Windows or, of course, any software product that’s ever been released.

-Bill Gates

http://pcworld.com/article/id,70344-page,1/article.html

In the three days following the official launch of Windows XP, U.S. retailers sold more than
300,000 copies of the new operating system, according to data from NPD Intelect, a sales
tracking firm for the consumer electronics industry that gathers sales estimates from major
retailers and mail-order companies.



"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:%232aYqT58GHA.4708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Unfortunately, the number of Retail copies is relatively small, and the number of Retail
> users that change 2 mobo's (except for defects) within the 3-5 year life cycle is super
> small.
>
> "Mario Rosario" <mario@webare.com> wrote in message
> news:2DF68D6D-2489-4549-83EB-80BECD8D23E8@microsoft.com...
>>
>> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:OhM7PW18GHA.2120@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Why would you think that?
>>>
>>
>> For one thing, the newsgroup is vista.general, not
>> please.help.me.with.my.vista.installation.
>>
>> Second, this is a forum provided by Microsoft for Microsoft users, this is street talk for
>> them. I also get tired of reading the same help messages 100 times.
>>
>> Third, we are vista customers, we are the enthusiasts, we are the overclockers, we pay
>> megadollars to support it, although corporations spend more. We should not let the product
>> stray from it's core values. We've see it happen with Apple, they were dominant in the 80s,
>> but dwindled down to 9/10 tenths of the market share. They lost sight of who were the folks
>> that help made them big. But I think Apple is capable of regaining a significant market
>> share if Microsoft takes this EULA approach, because they are taking the "fun" out of Vista.
>> There is nothing Vista can do that XP can't do for a fraction of the cost.
>>
>> I can go on.
>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Richard Urban
>>> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
>>
>> < rest deleted>
>
>

Read this carefully:

<quote>

29th April 2005
The OEM business, where large PC makers negotiate for volume discounts, accounts for about 80%
of Windows sales, and Anderson said that in the third quarter the mix of OEM versus retail had
shifted towards OEM.

</quote>

Windows XP was launched on 25 October 2001- Over four years later

retail sales *still* make up about 20%. Yes, some of those sales are MCE.





"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:OaR0F358GHA.4084@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
>>I don't care how small the percentage is if this happens to me:
>
> I agree, but we still represent an inconsequential revenue stream to Microsoft
>>
>> Suppose I installed Vista on my P4 socket 478 machine, three months later I didn't like the
>> performance. I upgraded my motherboard to a core 2 duo. Then the motherboard crapped out.
>
> That has been an exception in the past and I'm sure that will continue to be. Replacement of
> a defective board has been allowed explicitly, but of course they can even change that but
> not likely. That has been the same for OEM copies also.
>>
>> Now it is going to cost me $200 for a new motherboard and $400 for a new Vista license or
>> reinstall it on my old motherboard? Microsoft will not yield since it's in the EULA.
>
> See above re exception.
>>
>> You can say it doesn't happen, I bought an $200 ATI graphics card and it crapped out withing
>> 4 months. Now it will cost me additional $15 to send it in for repairs under warranty. I am
>> not happy. It doesn't matter how small the probability is. When it happens to you, it sucks.
>>
>
> Again see exception for defective boards.
>

Even if it is that high, and I doubt it, what % of the buyers do you think
will read the EULA. Even on this site there is but a small number who have
seemed to care passionately. I personally won't but Vista at least until I
build my next computer (probably 6 months) and then should be only changing
the mobo 1 time before the next os anyway. So, while not enthusiastic about
the change it isn't a big deal to me. Also, I won't be going for the
Ultimate version anyway. I don't have time for TV and have no use for
anything but Home Premium or Business.


"MICHAEL" <u158627_emr@dslr.net> wrote in message
news:ewDtV658GHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I think retail sales are more important than you might think-
> especially, at product launch. After a couple of years, then
> the spread between OEM and retail becomes even larger
> as users replace their computers. Let's say retail sales now
> represent around 10% of the total WinXP licenses sold-
> that is still a staggering figure when you consider worldwide
> numbers.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...mentum1pr.mspx
> Windows XP Is Flying Off The Shelves!
> New Operating System is Creating Early Holiday Excitement
> REDMOND, Wash., Nov. 8, 2001 — Since its retail debut Oct. 25, Microsoft
> Corp.'s newest operating system, Windows® XP, is achieving high demand
> worldwide. So high that some retailers are having trouble keeping store
> shelves stocked with Windows XP. Growing consumer demand for Windows XP
> has led to sales that are exceeding initial sales of Windows 95 and
> Windows Millennium Edition (Windows Me) and keeping pace with initial
> sales of Windows 98.
>
> "We are extremely pleased with the enthusiastic response from our
> customers," said Chris Jones, vice president for Windows at Microsoft. "We
> see Windows XP as being a positive catalyst for a great holiday season for
> the entire PC industry."
>
> "In a survey of major retailers in large markets across the country, we
> have found that 62 percent have reported that Windows XP is selling as
> expected or better," said Alan Davis, analyst at McAdams Wright Ragen Inc.
> "Overall, we are finding that retailers are optimistic about sales of
> Windows XP and the prospects leading into the holiday season."
>
> Along with retail sales of Windows XP, sales of new personal computers,
> peripherals and devices, and software applications have been boosted by
> excitement around Windows XP. According to NPD INTELECT, total retail
> software sales have climbed more than 50 percent in the week following the
> launch of Windows XP.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/s...-11comdex.aspx
>
> Closer to home, Microsoft just two weeks ago put out Windows XP. It was a
> very important launch for us, as important as the initial launch of
> Windows or the launch of Windows 95 that brought us into the 32-bit era.
>
> With all the uncertainty, we weren’t sure what the sales would be like,
> what the OEM sales would be like, what the retail sales would be like.
> Now, two weeks later, we have that data. Our OEM sales are far beyond any
> new product we’ve ever had. Our retail sales are more than double any
> version of Windows or, of course, any software product that’s ever been
> released.
>
> -Bill Gates
>
> http://pcworld.com/article/id,70344-page,1/article.html
>
> In the three days following the official launch of Windows XP, U.S.
> retailers sold more than 300,000 copies of the new operating system,
> according to data from NPD Intelect, a sales tracking firm for the
> consumer electronics industry that gathers sales estimates from major
> retailers and mail-order companies.
>
>
>
> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
> news:%232aYqT58GHA.4708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Unfortunately, the number of Retail copies is relatively small, and the
>> number of Retail users that change 2 mobo's (except for defects) within
>> the 3-5 year life cycle is super small.
>>
>> "Mario Rosario" <mario@webare.com> wrote in message
>> news:2DF68D6D-2489-4549-83EB-80BECD8D23E8@microsoft.com...
>>>
>>> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:OhM7PW18GHA.2120@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Why would you think that?
>>>>
>>>
>>> For one thing, the newsgroup is vista.general, not
>>> please.help.me.with.my.vista.installation.
>>>
>>> Second, this is a forum provided by Microsoft for Microsoft users, this
>>> is street talk for them. I also get tired of reading the same help
>>> messages 100 times.
>>>
>>> Third, we are vista customers, we are the enthusiasts, we are the
>>> overclockers, we pay megadollars to support it, although corporations
>>> spend more. We should not let the product stray from it's core values.
>>> We've see it happen with Apple, they were dominant in the 80s, but
>>> dwindled down to 9/10 tenths of the market share. They lost sight of who
>>> were the folks that help made them big. But I think Apple is capable of
>>> regaining a significant market share if Microsoft takes this EULA
>>> approach, because they are taking the "fun" out of Vista. There is
>>> nothing Vista can do that XP can't do for a fraction of the cost.
>>>
>>> I can go on.
>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Richard Urban
>>>> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
>>>
>>> < rest deleted>
>>
>>
>

Clint wrote:
> While your suggestions 3 - 5 are reasonable ways to make MS know that you're
> displeased (vote with your dollar, and educating others), suggestions 1 and
> 2 are counter-productive if you want to actually see some improvements. How
> will they know that you (and others) are wanting changes if you don't tell
> them? How will they know why people aren't buying Vista? It's like people
> deciding not to vote because they don't like the way the government is
> spending their money; you're basically giving up your right to tell them
> what you want them to do.
>
> IMHO, YMMV, etc
>
> Clint
>
> "xfile" <cou-cou@remove.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uFrnnn38GHA.4408@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> I feel beta testers (for any MS products) are idiots including myself.
>>
>> This is what people get - you spend lots of time and efforts including
>> risks of damaging your data and systems on beta testing for telling them
>> where are bugs and important features that they couldn't possibly think of
>> it, and at the end of the day - this is the best deal for what you've got.
>>
>> This company used to inspire me but now is a total stranger to me. So
>> this what I will do and maybe you should think about how to teach this
>> company to listening to consumers. Of course, you might think differently
>> if you are depended on the company for living either directly or
>> indirectly.
>>
>> (1) I will withdraw all my beta programs, and fortunately, I only have a
>> few of them.
>>
>> (2) I will stop participating on any surveys from the company for the user
>> feedbacks and possible new features including personal behavior on using
>> many applications. I've been doing all types of surveys for helping them
>> for many years.
>>
>> (3) I will search and evaluate more aggressively on alternative solutions.
>>
>> (4) I will use alternative solutions whenever possible.
>>
>> (5) I will buy extra copies of XP licenses for the next few years and will
>> not buy any Vista at all possibilities.
>>
>> (6) As an opinion leader, I will let people around me also know this issue
>> and advise them to be prepared early and to stay away the new OS at all
>> costs.
>>
>> I am not a devoted Linux user who might be an MS hater, but I think this
>> company has finally crossed the line. First the WGA acting as a spyware
>> and now is this type of restriction.
>>
>> Next time, we will get a security camera when we bought the new
>> application or OS that monitoring if we have changed anything.
>>
>> If you truly "love" this company and wish it back to spend more time and
>> efforts on developing innovative and creative products for wining
>> customers instead of using this type of tricks, you might need to do
>> something too.
>>
>> Of course, you can choose to spoil it or tolerate it because you need to
>> depend it for living.
>>
>> "xfile" <cou-cou@remove.nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23ARkJ9x8GHA.3552@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> According to ZDNET, "retail" copy of Vista can only be transferred to a
>>> new machine ONCE, and after that, you will need to buy a new one.
>>>
>>> But it doesn't say what constitutes a new machine, and maybe the old
>>> count - a new MB is also a NEW machine.
>>>
>>> If that's true, that means when we bought the new OS, we'd better to pray
>>> our MB never broken.
>>>
>>> Ha ha ha, funny. I guess MS has been working so hard to convince me not
>>> to buy the new OS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

And BTW: Should anyone want to comment on this issue directly to MS in a
way that they could reasonably expect their comment to be registered,
how should they go about it?

--
Daze

John Barnes wrote:
> Even if it is that high, and I doubt it, what % of the buyers do you think
> will read the EULA. Even on this site there is but a small number who have
> seemed to care passionately. I personally won't but Vista at least until I
> build my next computer (probably 6 months) and then should be only changing
> the mobo 1 time before the next os anyway.

What next OS? LOL! This one will put MS out of business.

Alias

The link for the quote below.

http://www.cbronline.com/article_new...5-89DC2D147A81


"MICHAEL" <u158627_emr@dslr.net> wrote in message news:u$vInE68GHA.4084@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Read this carefully:
>
> <quote>
>
> 29th April 2005
> The OEM business, where large PC makers negotiate for volume discounts, accounts for about
> 80% of Windows sales, and Anderson said that in the third quarter the mix of OEM versus
> retail had shifted towards OEM.
>
> </quote>
>
> Windows XP was launched on 25 October 2001- Over four years later
>
> retail sales *still* make up about 20%. Yes, some of those sales are MCE.
>
>
>
>
>
> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
> news:OaR0F358GHA.4084@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>I don't care how small the percentage is if this happens to me:
>>
>> I agree, but we still represent an inconsequential revenue stream to Microsoft
>>>
>>> Suppose I installed Vista on my P4 socket 478 machine, three months later I didn't like the
>>> performance. I upgraded my motherboard to a core 2 duo. Then the motherboard crapped out.
>>
>> That has been an exception in the past and I'm sure that will continue to be. Replacement
>> of a defective board has been allowed explicitly, but of course they can even change that
>> but not likely. That has been the same for OEM copies also.
>>>
>>> Now it is going to cost me $200 for a new motherboard and $400 for a new Vista license or
>>> reinstall it on my old motherboard? Microsoft will not yield since it's in the EULA.
>>
>> See above re exception.
>>>
>>> You can say it doesn't happen, I bought an $200 ATI graphics card and it crapped out
>>> withing 4 months. Now it will cost me additional $15 to send it in for repairs under
>>> warranty. I am not happy. It doesn't matter how small the probability is. When it happens
>>> to you, it sucks.
>>>
>>
>> Again see exception for defective boards.
>>
>

John Barnes wrote:
> Could be, but not based on losing the business of the 20-30 posters on this
> site that are passionate about the issue. :-) 99% or more of the buyers
> won't even glance thru the EULA let alone find the transfer clause.

I've already talked 15 people of that 99% out of getting it.

Alias
>
> "Alias~-" <notever@aolhell.net> wrote in message
> news:O3ZnOM68GHA.4224@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> John Barnes wrote:
>>> Even if it is that high, and I doubt it, what % of the buyers do you
>>> think will read the EULA. Even on this site there is but a small number
>>> who have seemed to care passionately. I personally won't but Vista at
>>> least until I build my next computer (probably 6 months) and then should
>>> be only changing the mobo 1 time before the next os anyway.
>> What next OS? LOL! This one will put MS out of business.
>>
>> Alias
>
>

I have to agree with John Barnes. If you ask the average XP user what a EULA
is you'll most likely get a blank stare. If you ask them if they are going
to transfer their OS to another computer the stare will continue. This is a
non issue for most people. For the vast majority this change will mean
nothing. For the minority who did use this transfer right in XP it is
probably a very big deal. I don't mean to trivialise this change for these
people. I'm just saying it's a very small minority who even know this right
existed and a smaller minority yet who actually took advantage of it.

This has nothing to do with the spin MS is putting on it. That is wrong.
This right clearly exists with XP and it is a change with Vista. To deny
this is FUD at it's worst.

--
Kerry
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca


Alias~- wrote:
> John Barnes wrote:
>> Even if it is that high, and I doubt it, what % of the buyers do you
>> think will read the EULA. Even on this site there is but a small
>> number who have seemed to care passionately. I personally won't but
>> Vista at least until I build my next computer (probably 6 months)
>> and then should be only changing the mobo 1 time before the next os
>> anyway.
>
> What next OS? LOL! This one will put MS out of business.
>
> Alias

Actually, going from motherboard "A" to "B" and back to "A" might well
still be seen as three systems, not two. In fact, currently, it is (I
went through that experience .... I was able to get reactivation by
explaining it, but as far as how MS PA sees it .... it's three systems,
not two).

But, that said, the statement that "Microsoft will not yield since it's
in the EULA" is not correct. Actually, Microsoft is pretty reasonable
and flexible. By no means are they sticking 100% to the strict letter
of the EULA, although they have the legal right to do so if they choose
to do so.

And that, really, is a big part of the issue: Not what they can do, but
what they actually do. Specifically, EULA not withstanding, if the PA
database for Vista contiues the XP policy of resetting completely after
4 months of inactivity, then much of the issue goes away, at least from
a practical perspective.


Mario Rosario wrote:

> I don't care how small the percentage is if this happens to me:
>
> Suppose I installed Vista on my P4 socket 478 machine, three months
> later I didn't like the performance. I upgraded my motherboard to a core
> 2 duo. Then the motherboard crapped out.
>
> Now it is going to cost me $200 for a new motherboard and $400 for a new
> Vista license or reinstall it on my old motherboard? Microsoft will not
> yield since it's in the EULA.
>
> You can say it doesn't happen, I bought an $200 ATI graphics card and it
> crapped out withing 4 months. Now it will cost me additional $15 to send
> it in for repairs under warranty. I am not happy. It doesn't matter how
> small the probability is. When it happens to you, it sucks.
>
> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
> news:%232aYqT58GHA.4708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
>> Unfortunately, the number of Retail copies is relatively small, and
>> the number of Retail users that change 2 mobo's (except for defects)
>> within the 3-5 year life cycle is super small.
>>
>

I agree. It will be interesting to see how the changes in activation points
affects me if they do not stay with the 120 day reset. My most common
change over the years has been to reinstall on a newer hard drive, which I
hear now has the greatest points assigned.

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4537C0C1.2040909@neo.rr.com...
> Actually, going from motherboard "A" to "B" and back to "A" might well
> still be seen as three systems, not two. In fact, currently, it is (I
> went through that experience .... I was able to get reactivation by
> explaining it, but as far as how MS PA sees it .... it's three systems,
> not two).
>
> But, that said, the statement that "Microsoft will not yield since it's in
> the EULA" is not correct. Actually, Microsoft is pretty reasonable and
> flexible. By no means are they sticking 100% to the strict letter of the
> EULA, although they have the legal right to do so if they choose to do so.
>
> And that, really, is a big part of the issue: Not what they can do, but
> what they actually do. Specifically, EULA not withstanding, if the PA
> database for Vista contiues the XP policy of resetting completely after 4
> months of inactivity, then much of the issue goes away, at least from a
> practical perspective.
>
>
> Mario Rosario wrote:
>
>> I don't care how small the percentage is if this happens to me:
>>
>> Suppose I installed Vista on my P4 socket 478 machine, three months later
>> I didn't like the performance. I upgraded my motherboard to a core 2 duo.
>> Then the motherboard crapped out.
>>
>> Now it is going to cost me $200 for a new motherboard and $400 for a new
>> Vista license or reinstall it on my old motherboard? Microsoft will not
>> yield since it's in the EULA.
>>
>> You can say it doesn't happen, I bought an $200 ATI graphics card and it
>> crapped out withing 4 months. Now it will cost me additional $15 to send
>> it in for repairs under warranty. I am not happy. It doesn't matter how
>> small the probability is. When it happens to you, it sucks.
>>
>> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
>> news:%232aYqT58GHA.4708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> Unfortunately, the number of Retail copies is relatively small, and the
>>> number of Retail users that change 2 mobo's (except for defects) within
>>> the 3-5 year life cycle is super small.
>>>
>>