Vista - Take out the Retail EULA transfer only once Clause and WGAN and many legitimate customers will be pleased

Dear Microsoft Folks:

Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and remove the
forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and you will please
millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.

They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater success
than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like you for it.

Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise, Scout's honour.

Not only will the legitimate customers be pleased, but the software pirates
will as well. Besides, what is so difficult about one license, one computer?
If you change everything about your computer except the case, then that is
still a new computer. That would be 2 computers, one license. It is pretty
simple. If you change the graphics card, well, that is the same computer.

Last I checked WGA checks on your hard drive serial number, the motherboard,
and bios version, among a few other less important things, weighing changes
accordingly.

So if you want to transfer your license from one computer to another, you
are really trying to put it on many different computers with only one
license.

We have all discussed the terms of the EULA. However, we don't really know
how this is being enforced programmatically yet, nor do we know what
Microsoft will do if you call them and tell them that you upgraded your
computer and that it failed.

A one time transfer doesn't necessarily mean you can only activate it twice,
nor does it mean that you can only upgrade your computer once. It simply
means you can't move the license from one computer to another more than
once. Moving your license from one computer to another is pretty arbitrary,
but needs to be defined by Microsoft before we all freak out. It may be that
if you call Microsoft and tell them you upgraded your computer, not
transfered the license, that they will be able to manually override it for
you.

The demands from Microsoft aren't all that outragous. Have you seen how many
cameras there are in Walmart reporting back and recording your every move?
You know that they could use advanced face recognition technology identify
you and keep track of your spending habits. Does that mean that they do? No.
Likewise, that data Microsoft gathers is INTENTIONALLY handled in such a way
that they can't identify you. Of course they have your IP address. So do I.
You aren't as anonymous on the internet as you might think.

Robert Firth
http://www.winvistainfo.org


"SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
news:ubb7Xek9GHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Dear Microsoft Folks:
>
> Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and remove the
> forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and you will please
> millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.
>
> They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater success
> than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like you for it.
>
> Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise, Scout's
> honour.
>
>

Firth;
ur killin me
lol
Jeff
"Robert Firth" <webmaster@winvistainfo.org> wrote in message
news:63515BFD-09A1-4A75-B51D-6013C4B99B7A@microsoft.com...
> Not only will the legitimate customers be pleased, but the software
> pirates will as well. Besides, what is so difficult about one license, one
> computer? If you change everything about your computer except the case,
> then that is still a new computer. That would be 2 computers, one license.
> It is pretty simple. If you change the graphics card, well, that is the
> same computer.
>
> Last I checked WGA checks on your hard drive serial number, the
> motherboard, and bios version, among a few other less important things,
> weighing changes accordingly.
>
> So if you want to transfer your license from one computer to another, you
> are really trying to put it on many different computers with only one
> license.
>
> We have all discussed the terms of the EULA. However, we don't really know
> how this is being enforced programmatically yet, nor do we know what
> Microsoft will do if you call them and tell them that you upgraded your
> computer and that it failed.
>
> A one time transfer doesn't necessarily mean you can only activate it
> twice, nor does it mean that you can only upgrade your computer once. It
> simply means you can't move the license from one computer to another more
> than once. Moving your license from one computer to another is pretty
> arbitrary, but needs to be defined by Microsoft before we all freak out.
> It may be that if you call Microsoft and tell them you upgraded your
> computer, not transfered the license, that they will be able to manually
> override it for you.
>
> The demands from Microsoft aren't all that outragous. Have you seen how
> many cameras there are in Walmart reporting back and recording your every
> move? You know that they could use advanced face recognition technology
> identify you and keep track of your spending habits. Does that mean that
> they do? No. Likewise, that data Microsoft gathers is INTENTIONALLY
> handled in such a way that they can't identify you. Of course they have
> your IP address. So do I. You aren't as anonymous on the internet as you
> might think.
>
> Robert Firth
> http://www.winvistainfo.org
>
>
> "SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
> news:ubb7Xek9GHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Dear Microsoft Folks:
>>
>> Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and remove the
>> forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and you will please
>> millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.
>>
>> They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater success
>> than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like you for it.
>>
>> Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise, Scout's
>> honour.
>>
>>
>

I can understand that Piracy is a problem, but for me, it will also be a
problem to keep on buying new licenses. I am just a normal guy in the
street, earning an average income. Computer Technology changes all the time.
Anyway, I also try other software and in the process sometimes crashes the
PC, and wants to do it all over..........I simply cannot afford it ! It is
unreasonable to have such a heavy hand on OS's. After all, I believe it is
the smaller guys who also promoted Microsoft Software world wide. I will
never believe that MS is so cash strapped that all these restrictions are
necessary.

"Robert Firth" <webmaster@winvistainfo.org> wrote in message
news:63515BFD-09A1-4A75-B51D-6013C4B99B7A@microsoft.com...
> Not only will the legitimate customers be pleased, but the software
> pirates will as well. Besides, what is so difficult about one license, one
> computer? If you change everything about your computer except the case,
> then that is still a new computer. That would be 2 computers, one license.
> It is pretty simple. If you change the graphics card, well, that is the
> same computer.
>
> Last I checked WGA checks on your hard drive serial number, the
> motherboard, and bios version, among a few other less important things,
> weighing changes accordingly.
>
> So if you want to transfer your license from one computer to another, you
> are really trying to put it on many different computers with only one
> license.
>
> We have all discussed the terms of the EULA. However, we don't really know
> how this is being enforced programmatically yet, nor do we know what
> Microsoft will do if you call them and tell them that you upgraded your
> computer and that it failed.
>
> A one time transfer doesn't necessarily mean you can only activate it
> twice, nor does it mean that you can only upgrade your computer once. It
> simply means you can't move the license from one computer to another more
> than once. Moving your license from one computer to another is pretty
> arbitrary, but needs to be defined by Microsoft before we all freak out.
> It may be that if you call Microsoft and tell them you upgraded your
> computer, not transfered the license, that they will be able to manually
> override it for you.
>
> The demands from Microsoft aren't all that outragous. Have you seen how
> many cameras there are in Walmart reporting back and recording your every
> move? You know that they could use advanced face recognition technology
> identify you and keep track of your spending habits. Does that mean that
> they do? No. Likewise, that data Microsoft gathers is INTENTIONALLY
> handled in such a way that they can't identify you. Of course they have
> your IP address. So do I. You aren't as anonymous on the internet as you
> might think.
>
> Robert Firth
> http://www.winvistainfo.org
>
>
> "SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
> news:ubb7Xek9GHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Dear Microsoft Folks:
>>
>> Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and remove the
>> forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and you will please
>> millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.
>>
>> They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater success
>> than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like you for it.
>>
>> Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise, Scout's
>> honour.
>>
>>
>

Inline:

Robert Firth wrote:
>> Not only will the legitimate customers be pleased, but the software
>> pirates will as well.


How? What difference does it make to them? They don't bother with the EULA
to begin with. And apparently, nine times out of ten they develop a crack
workaround.


>> Besides, what is so difficult about one
>> license, one computer?


Much. It's changing the rules. It's substantially detracting value from the
full Retail licence. It is very inconvenient for the hobbiest enthusiast who
frequently changes computers / mobos etc.

Furthermore, the forced WGA N type software is, essentially, a
spyware/trojan device that wrests control of the behaviour of the PC from
its owner. Not good.


>> If you change everything about your computer
>> except the case, then that is still a new computer. That would be 2
>> computers, one license. It is pretty simple. If you change the
>> graphics card, well, that is the same computer.


? The point being ?


>> Last I checked WGA checks on your hard drive serial number, the
>> motherboard, and bios version, among a few other less important
>> things, weighing changes accordingly.


In other words just everything about the computer and perhaps then some. I'm
not commenting on WGA, rather forced WGA N which will regularly report on a
person, and possibly seize one's effects, electronic papers and documents. I
think that would be a serious a civil rights violation.


>> So if you want to transfer your license from one computer to
>> another, you are really trying to put it on many different computers
>> with only one license.


No, I would be using the Retail license on only one computer at any one
time. Which is reasonable and fair use of it, especially considering what I
pay for it in comparison to an OEM type license.


>> We have all discussed the terms of the EULA. However, we don't
>> really know how this is being enforced programmatically yet, nor do
>> we know what Microsoft will do if you call them and tell them that
>> you upgraded your computer and that it failed.


Who cares if it enforcable through software? Enforcement is the job of the
state, not Microsoft. When the state enforces they have to do it in a manner
that respects my civil liberties. Microsoft is attempting to usrup the jobs
of cop, judge, jury and executioner and plans to do so at its own caprice
and whim. Not good.


>> A one time transfer doesn't necessarily mean you can only activate
>> it twice, nor does it mean that you can only upgrade your computer
>> once. It simply means you can't move the license from one computer
>> to another more than once.


Which is a major flaw of the new EULA.


>> Moving your license from one computer to
>> another is pretty arbitrary, but needs to be defined by Microsoft
>> before we all freak out. It may be that if you call Microsoft and
>> tell them you upgraded your computer, not transfered the license,
>> that they will be able to manually override it for you.


When WPA came in we were told we were never to have to explain ourselves to
Microsoft. Now this?


>> The demands from Microsoft aren't all that outragous. Have you seen
>> how many cameras there are in Walmart reporting back and recording
>> your every move?


But Walmart is not my home or personal papers. Those are protected by my
civil rights against seizure without a warrant.


>> You know that they could use advanced face
>> recognition technology identify you and keep track of your spending
>> habits. Does that mean that they do? No.


Well, that's a altogether debatable subject. I think there are issues
surrounding the use of face recognition software - or there should be.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Hom...fense/lm12.cfm

Besides, here it has become possible for a person to wear a face covering.
So it is a broad topic whose legal implications are still vague and a bit
off topic.


>> Likewise, that data
>> Microsoft gathers is INTENTIONALLY handled in such a way that they
>> can't identify you. Of course they have your IP address. So do I.
>> You aren't as anonymous on the internet as you might think.


Yes, but I choose where I post and what sites I visit or if I ever even
venture onto the Internet. Forced WGA N would report without my permission.
Forced WGA N takes the ongoing control of my computer out of my hands and
puts it into Microsoft's - an unnerving qualitiative change. And Microsoft
so far would not be responsible / accountable for the information they
gather in any way. A situation I think is not good.


>> Robert Firth
>> http://www.winvistainfo.org
>>
>>
>> "SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
>> news:ubb7Xek9GHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Dear Microsoft Folks:
>>>
>>> Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and
>>> remove the forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and
>>> you will please millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.
>>>
>>> They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater
>>> success than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like
>>> you for it.
>>>
>>> Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise, Scout's
>>> honour.

I hope you never upgrade your motherboard for whatever reason because MS
definitely consider an motherboard upgrade as a new computer......
So please, don't change your cpu which require a new mobo. And don't
upgrade your RAM from DDR2 to DDR3 either...... And if you are
non-SLi or non-CF and want to upgrade to SLi or CF? Sorry, you need a new
mobo........

The Vista EULA issue bring out what MS can dictate as upgrade or not and
they are jamming it down our (enthusiats, and most of us beta test MS
products.....) throat.

"Robert Firth" <webmaster@winvistainfo.org> wrote in message
news:63515BFD-09A1-4A75-B51D-6013C4B99B7A@microsoft.com...
> Not only will the legitimate customers be pleased, but the software
> pirates will as well. Besides, what is so difficult about one license, one
> computer? If you change everything about your computer except the case,
> then that is still a new computer. That would be 2 computers, one license.
> It is pretty simple. If you change the graphics card, well, that is the
> same computer.
>
> Last I checked WGA checks on your hard drive serial number, the
> motherboard, and bios version, among a few other less important things,
> weighing changes accordingly.
>
> So if you want to transfer your license from one computer to another, you
> are really trying to put it on many different computers with only one
> license.
>
> We have all discussed the terms of the EULA. However, we don't really know
> how this is being enforced programmatically yet, nor do we know what
> Microsoft will do if you call them and tell them that you upgraded your
> computer and that it failed.
>
> A one time transfer doesn't necessarily mean you can only activate it
> twice, nor does it mean that you can only upgrade your computer once. It
> simply means you can't move the license from one computer to another more
> than once. Moving your license from one computer to another is pretty
> arbitrary, but needs to be defined by Microsoft before we all freak out.
> It may be that if you call Microsoft and tell them you upgraded your
> computer, not transfered the license, that they will be able to manually
> override it for you.
>
> The demands from Microsoft aren't all that outragous. Have you seen how
> many cameras there are in Walmart reporting back and recording your every
> move? You know that they could use advanced face recognition technology
> identify you and keep track of your spending habits. Does that mean that
> they do? No. Likewise, that data Microsoft gathers is INTENTIONALLY
> handled in such a way that they can't identify you. Of course they have
> your IP address. So do I. You aren't as anonymous on the internet as you
> might think.
>
> Robert Firth
> http://www.winvistainfo.org
>
>
> "SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
> news:ubb7Xek9GHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Dear Microsoft Folks:
>>
>> Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and remove the
>> forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and you will please
>> millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.
>>
>> They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater success
>> than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like you for it.
>>
>> Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise, Scout's
>> honour.
>>
>>
>

See, now there is a misconception. If your computer crashes, and you
have to reload it, it should still activate without issue, and if there is a
siutuation where you have to call in activation, that shouldn't be a problem
either. Look, no one is telling you that you have to be perfect and you can't
re-load. That is not a problem. You can re-load it on the same computer as
many times as you see fit.
The difference is that unlike Windows XP, if you change your computer
(replace the mainboard, hard drive, processor, etc.), you can do that once
(within reason, of course). Now if you call Microsoft and say "My hard drive
burnt out on me, and I had to replace it." I am sure they wouldn't have a
problem giving you another liscense, as long as you aren't calling them for a
hard drive this week, a mainboard next month and a processor 3 months from
now. Common sense will prevail. They are even saying that you can buy
yourself a new computer, or build yourself a new computer once and change the
liscense over to it. Not that hard to deal with.
The best advice I can say is if you are already running RC1 or RC2, use
that as your test platform, get all the upgrades you think you will need. My
goal is to have 4.5 to 5.0 index before Vista is bought. This way, I will not
have to worry about upgrades.
In the coming months I will be buying 2 hard drives, maybe a new
processor (I am already runnign a 64 X2 4600), a new graphics card, and a
couple more gigs of ram. You have time to do that, you have a few months
before it hits the shelves. This way, after you load Vista, you won't have to
worry about "I need upgrades because I am running too slow." You know what
your computer needs, you have the ability to "Get Ready!"
Moreover, the RC versions, from what I understand will remain
operational, at least for a little while after the market release, so you
will have time. Then again, you don't have to be the first person in line at
the store to buy Vista either. It may be a good idea to wait until you know
your computer is ready for Vista before you buy it.
The EULA isn't made to tie our hands, but it does encourage one to
think about things first. It also forces us to do a little planning before
acting. A couple routes to go. Eitehr upgrade before you install, or upgrade
after you install, but plan it out and when you do that upgrading, do it all
at once, whether you buy the parts at the same time, or buy the parts over
time and install it all at the same time.

this shouldn't be an issue. :-)

"Piet Fourie" wrote:

> I can understand that Piracy is a problem, but for me, it will also be a
> problem to keep on buying new licenses. I am just a normal guy in the
> street, earning an average income. Computer Technology changes all the time.
> Anyway, I also try other software and in the process sometimes crashes the
> PC, and wants to do it all over..........I simply cannot afford it ! It is
> unreasonable to have such a heavy hand on OS's. After all, I believe it is
> the smaller guys who also promoted Microsoft Software world wide. I will
> never believe that MS is so cash strapped that all these restrictions are
> necessary.
>
> "Robert Firth" <webmaster@winvistainfo.org> wrote in message
> news:63515BFD-09A1-4A75-B51D-6013C4B99B7A@microsoft.com...
> > Not only will the legitimate customers be pleased, but the software
> > pirates will as well. Besides, what is so difficult about one license, one
> > computer? If you change everything about your computer except the case,
> > then that is still a new computer. That would be 2 computers, one license.
> > It is pretty simple. If you change the graphics card, well, that is the
> > same computer.
> >
> > Last I checked WGA checks on your hard drive serial number, the
> > motherboard, and bios version, among a few other less important things,
> > weighing changes accordingly.
> >
> > So if you want to transfer your license from one computer to another, you
> > are really trying to put it on many different computers with only one
> > license.
> >
> > We have all discussed the terms of the EULA. However, we don't really know
> > how this is being enforced programmatically yet, nor do we know what
> > Microsoft will do if you call them and tell them that you upgraded your
> > computer and that it failed.
> >
> > A one time transfer doesn't necessarily mean you can only activate it
> > twice, nor does it mean that you can only upgrade your computer once. It
> > simply means you can't move the license from one computer to another more
> > than once. Moving your license from one computer to another is pretty
> > arbitrary, but needs to be defined by Microsoft before we all freak out.
> > It may be that if you call Microsoft and tell them you upgraded your
> > computer, not transfered the license, that they will be able to manually
> > override it for you.
> >
> > The demands from Microsoft aren't all that outragous. Have you seen how
> > many cameras there are in Walmart reporting back and recording your every
> > move? You know that they could use advanced face recognition technology
> > identify you and keep track of your spending habits. Does that mean that
> > they do? No. Likewise, that data Microsoft gathers is INTENTIONALLY
> > handled in such a way that they can't identify you. Of course they have
> > your IP address. So do I. You aren't as anonymous on the internet as you
> > might think.
> >
> > Robert Firth
> > http://www.winvistainfo.org
> >
> >
> > "SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
> > news:ubb7Xek9GHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> Dear Microsoft Folks:
> >>
> >> Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and remove the
> >> forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and you will please
> >> millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.
> >>
> >> They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater success
> >> than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like you for it.
> >>
> >> Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise, Scout's
> >> honour.
> >>
> >>
> >
>

Gene;
Basically,
Hardware shouldnt be an issue-at all; if i lease an o.s.-and i switch
computers;I'm taking my leased o.s. with me . Not that I intend it;but say I
have a hardware fail;buy a new pc;there's #1;if in the course of events;I
decide I either don't like that hardware;or switch it for any reason; said
o.s. is coming with me;and it better work on #2 period.
If MSFT has a problem with that;then they'll lose my business; and I'd
dare say;lots of people feel that way.

Jeff

"Gene Fitz" <GeneFitz@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:20C008A3-6C93-4720-BBF1-CA4CDFF7D5FE@microsoft.com...
> See, now there is a misconception. If your computer crashes, and you
> have to reload it, it should still activate without issue, and if there is
> a
> siutuation where you have to call in activation, that shouldn't be a
> problem
> either. Look, no one is telling you that you have to be perfect and you
> can't
> re-load. That is not a problem. You can re-load it on the same computer as
> many times as you see fit.
> The difference is that unlike Windows XP, if you change your computer
> (replace the mainboard, hard drive, processor, etc.), you can do that once
> (within reason, of course). Now if you call Microsoft and say "My hard
> drive
> burnt out on me, and I had to replace it." I am sure they wouldn't have a
> problem giving you another liscense, as long as you aren't calling them
> for a
> hard drive this week, a mainboard next month and a processor 3 months from
> now. Common sense will prevail. They are even saying that you can buy
> yourself a new computer, or build yourself a new computer once and change
> the
> liscense over to it. Not that hard to deal with.
> The best advice I can say is if you are already running RC1 or RC2,
> use
> that as your test platform, get all the upgrades you think you will need.
> My
> goal is to have 4.5 to 5.0 index before Vista is bought. This way, I will
> not
> have to worry about upgrades.
> In the coming months I will be buying 2 hard drives, maybe a new
> processor (I am already runnign a 64 X2 4600), a new graphics card, and a
> couple more gigs of ram. You have time to do that, you have a few months
> before it hits the shelves. This way, after you load Vista, you won't have
> to
> worry about "I need upgrades because I am running too slow." You know what
> your computer needs, you have the ability to "Get Ready!"
> Moreover, the RC versions, from what I understand will remain
> operational, at least for a little while after the market release, so you
> will have time. Then again, you don't have to be the first person in line
> at
> the store to buy Vista either. It may be a good idea to wait until you
> know
> your computer is ready for Vista before you buy it.
> The EULA isn't made to tie our hands, but it does encourage one to
> think about things first. It also forces us to do a little planning before
> acting. A couple routes to go. Eitehr upgrade before you install, or
> upgrade
> after you install, but plan it out and when you do that upgrading, do it
> all
> at once, whether you buy the parts at the same time, or buy the parts over
> time and install it all at the same time.
>
> this shouldn't be an issue. :-)
>
> "Piet Fourie" wrote:
>
>> I can understand that Piracy is a problem, but for me, it will also be a
>> problem to keep on buying new licenses. I am just a normal guy in the
>> street, earning an average income. Computer Technology changes all the
>> time.
>> Anyway, I also try other software and in the process sometimes crashes
>> the
>> PC, and wants to do it all over..........I simply cannot afford it ! It
>> is
>> unreasonable to have such a heavy hand on OS's. After all, I believe it
>> is
>> the smaller guys who also promoted Microsoft Software world wide. I will
>> never believe that MS is so cash strapped that all these restrictions are
>> necessary.
>>
>> "Robert Firth" <webmaster@winvistainfo.org> wrote in message
>> news:63515BFD-09A1-4A75-B51D-6013C4B99B7A@microsoft.com...
>> > Not only will the legitimate customers be pleased, but the software
>> > pirates will as well. Besides, what is so difficult about one license,
>> > one
>> > computer? If you change everything about your computer except the case,
>> > then that is still a new computer. That would be 2 computers, one
>> > license.
>> > It is pretty simple. If you change the graphics card, well, that is the
>> > same computer.
>> >
>> > Last I checked WGA checks on your hard drive serial number, the
>> > motherboard, and bios version, among a few other less important things,
>> > weighing changes accordingly.
>> >
>> > So if you want to transfer your license from one computer to another,
>> > you
>> > are really trying to put it on many different computers with only one
>> > license.
>> >
>> > We have all discussed the terms of the EULA. However, we don't really
>> > know
>> > how this is being enforced programmatically yet, nor do we know what
>> > Microsoft will do if you call them and tell them that you upgraded your
>> > computer and that it failed.
>> >
>> > A one time transfer doesn't necessarily mean you can only activate it
>> > twice, nor does it mean that you can only upgrade your computer once.
>> > It
>> > simply means you can't move the license from one computer to another
>> > more
>> > than once. Moving your license from one computer to another is pretty
>> > arbitrary, but needs to be defined by Microsoft before we all freak
>> > out.
>> > It may be that if you call Microsoft and tell them you upgraded your
>> > computer, not transfered the license, that they will be able to
>> > manually
>> > override it for you.
>> >
>> > The demands from Microsoft aren't all that outragous. Have you seen how
>> > many cameras there are in Walmart reporting back and recording your
>> > every
>> > move? You know that they could use advanced face recognition technology
>> > identify you and keep track of your spending habits. Does that mean
>> > that
>> > they do? No. Likewise, that data Microsoft gathers is INTENTIONALLY
>> > handled in such a way that they can't identify you. Of course they have
>> > your IP address. So do I. You aren't as anonymous on the internet as
>> > you
>> > might think.
>> >
>> > Robert Firth
>> > http://www.winvistainfo.org
>> >
>> >
>> > "SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
>> > news:ubb7Xek9GHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >> Dear Microsoft Folks:
>> >>
>> >> Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and remove
>> >> the
>> >> forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and you will please
>> >> millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.
>> >>
>> >> They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater
>> >> success
>> >> than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like you for it.
>> >>
>> >> Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise, Scout's
>> >> honour.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>

Jeff,
Not to sound rude about this, but the EULA is layed out pretty bluntly, you
buy the liscense for the computer, not for yourself. That is what makes this
liscense different. it is also the reason they say "only one computer
change."
This is what makes the Vista EULA different from the older OS. See? This is
what all the hub bub is about. this is what has people pissed off. I don't
have a problem with it, but many do.
In some of the older liscenses, the EULA left an opening that you could use
the program on as many computers as you wanted, as long as you were using it
on one computer at a time.
The exception to that rule was OEM packaged software that you could only use
on one computer (the computer it came with) which is why later HP, Gateway,
and other computer companies started making the restore function a partition
of the hard drive, or started merging the OS into the "Full Restore" disks
that would only work on the computer it came with.
This new EULA states that you are buying the program for the computer, which
changes the ball game. It tells you that you can use it one one computer, but
you can transfer it once. That means you can transfer it to another computer
only one time, than the liscense is only for that computer and you may not
transfer it again, without buying a new liscense key.
the issue that people have is "What is a new computer? and What is a
upgraded old computer"
the answer is simple, minor upgrades, video, sound, Memory, port changes,
etc. are seen as upgrades. Major changes, CPU, Mainboard, Hard Drive, they
may constitute a new computer.
I mean, lets be realistic. If you load Vista on a P4 HT, with 1 Gig ram, a
200 Gig hard drive,16 bit sound card, and a AGP Video card, then update to a
Athlon 64 X2 5000+, with 4 Gigs ram, 2X 750 Gig Hard drives, HD sound and a
PCI Express 7900GT, and put it in the same case as your old computer, is it
still your old computer? Granted, your case and perripherals are the same,
but it is a new computer with an old case and DVD Rom.
Now I am sure there will be exceptions to the rule, depending on the
situation. But I mean fair is fair. Microsoft says, if you get a new
computer, get a new liscense. I am cool with it.
Now another point to make, as some of us older computing folks are starting
to understand, as the rest of the public already knows.
It is easier, and in most cases, cheaper to buy an OEM computer. Now, 80% or
more of the Windows XP programs are sold in OEM packages. Knowing this, that
80% of consumers will not even have to worry about the EULA stipulation. You
will buy a new computer loaded with vista, that will have either the restore
system or restore disks that will only be able to be used on that computer
anyway. Microsoft knows that as well, which is why the new EULA will be, for
the most, a transparent change.

People are making Mount Ranier out of a mole hill here..

"Jeff" wrote:

> Gene;
> Basically,
> Hardware shouldnt be an issue-at all; if i lease an o.s.-and i switch
> computers;I'm taking my leased o.s. with me . Not that I intend it;but say I
> have a hardware fail;buy a new pc;there's #1;if in the course of events;I
> decide I either don't like that hardware;or switch it for any reason; said
> o.s. is coming with me;and it better work on #2 period.
> If MSFT has a problem with that;then they'll lose my business; and I'd
> dare say;lots of people feel that way.
>
> Jeff
>
> "Gene Fitz" <GeneFitz@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:20C008A3-6C93-4720-BBF1-CA4CDFF7D5FE@microsoft.com...
> > See, now there is a misconception. If your computer crashes, and you
> > have to reload it, it should still activate without issue, and if there is
> > a
> > siutuation where you have to call in activation, that shouldn't be a
> > problem
> > either. Look, no one is telling you that you have to be perfect and you
> > can't
> > re-load. That is not a problem. You can re-load it on the same computer as
> > many times as you see fit.
> > The difference is that unlike Windows XP, if you change your computer
> > (replace the mainboard, hard drive, processor, etc.), you can do that once
> > (within reason, of course). Now if you call Microsoft and say "My hard
> > drive
> > burnt out on me, and I had to replace it." I am sure they wouldn't have a
> > problem giving you another liscense, as long as you aren't calling them
> > for a
> > hard drive this week, a mainboard next month and a processor 3 months from
> > now. Common sense will prevail. They are even saying that you can buy
> > yourself a new computer, or build yourself a new computer once and change
> > the
> > liscense over to it. Not that hard to deal with.
> > The best advice I can say is if you are already running RC1 or RC2,
> > use
> > that as your test platform, get all the upgrades you think you will need.
> > My
> > goal is to have 4.5 to 5.0 index before Vista is bought. This way, I will
> > not
> > have to worry about upgrades.
> > In the coming months I will be buying 2 hard drives, maybe a new
> > processor (I am already runnign a 64 X2 4600), a new graphics card, and a
> > couple more gigs of ram. You have time to do that, you have a few months
> > before it hits the shelves. This way, after you load Vista, you won't have
> > to
> > worry about "I need upgrades because I am running too slow." You know what
> > your computer needs, you have the ability to "Get Ready!"
> > Moreover, the RC versions, from what I understand will remain
> > operational, at least for a little while after the market release, so you
> > will have time. Then again, you don't have to be the first person in line
> > at
> > the store to buy Vista either. It may be a good idea to wait until you
> > know
> > your computer is ready for Vista before you buy it.
> > The EULA isn't made to tie our hands, but it does encourage one to
> > think about things first. It also forces us to do a little planning before
> > acting. A couple routes to go. Eitehr upgrade before you install, or
> > upgrade
> > after you install, but plan it out and when you do that upgrading, do it
> > all
> > at once, whether you buy the parts at the same time, or buy the parts over
> > time and install it all at the same time.
> >
> > this shouldn't be an issue. :-)
> >
> > "Piet Fourie" wrote:
> >
> >> I can understand that Piracy is a problem, but for me, it will also be a
> >> problem to keep on buying new licenses. I am just a normal guy in the
> >> street, earning an average income. Computer Technology changes all the
> >> time.
> >> Anyway, I also try other software and in the process sometimes crashes
> >> the
> >> PC, and wants to do it all over..........I simply cannot afford it ! It
> >> is
> >> unreasonable to have such a heavy hand on OS's. After all, I believe it
> >> is
> >> the smaller guys who also promoted Microsoft Software world wide. I will
> >> never believe that MS is so cash strapped that all these restrictions are
> >> necessary.
> >>
> >> "Robert Firth" <webmaster@winvistainfo.org> wrote in message
> >> news:63515BFD-09A1-4A75-B51D-6013C4B99B7A@microsoft.com...
> >> > Not only will the legitimate customers be pleased, but the software
> >> > pirates will as well. Besides, what is so difficult about one license,
> >> > one
> >> > computer? If you change everything about your computer except the case,
> >> > then that is still a new computer. That would be 2 computers, one
> >> > license.
> >> > It is pretty simple. If you change the graphics card, well, that is the
> >> > same computer.
> >> >
> >> > Last I checked WGA checks on your hard drive serial number, the
> >> > motherboard, and bios version, among a few other less important things,
> >> > weighing changes accordingly.
> >> >
> >> > So if you want to transfer your license from one computer to another,
> >> > you
> >> > are really trying to put it on many different computers with only one
> >> > license.
> >> >
> >> > We have all discussed the terms of the EULA. However, we don't really
> >> > know
> >> > how this is being enforced programmatically yet, nor do we know what
> >> > Microsoft will do if you call them and tell them that you upgraded your
> >> > computer and that it failed.
> >> >
> >> > A one time transfer doesn't necessarily mean you can only activate it
> >> > twice, nor does it mean that you can only upgrade your computer once.
> >> > It
> >> > simply means you can't move the license from one computer to another
> >> > more
> >> > than once. Moving your license from one computer to another is pretty
> >> > arbitrary, but needs to be defined by Microsoft before we all freak
> >> > out.
> >> > It may be that if you call Microsoft and tell them you upgraded your
> >> > computer, not transfered the license, that they will be able to
> >> > manually
> >> > override it for you.
> >> >
> >> > The demands from Microsoft aren't all that outragous. Have you seen how
> >> > many cameras there are in Walmart reporting back and recording your
> >> > every
> >> > move? You know that they could use advanced face recognition technology
> >> > identify you and keep track of your spending habits. Does that mean
> >> > that
> >> > they do? No. Likewise, that data Microsoft gathers is INTENTIONALLY
> >> > handled in such a way that they can't identify you. Of course they have
> >> > your IP address. So do I. You aren't as anonymous on the internet as
> >> > you
> >> > might think.
> >> >
> >> > Robert Firth
> >> > http://www.winvistainfo.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
> >> > news:ubb7Xek9GHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> >> Dear Microsoft Folks:
> >> >>
> >> >> Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and remove
> >> >> the
> >> >> forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and you will please
> >> >> millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.
> >> >>
> >> >> They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater
> >> >> success
> >> >> than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like you for it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise, Scout's
> >> >> honour.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
>
>

That's why everybody should just buy OEM version and buying retail does not
make sense for Vista. Retail versions are around a little more then 2X the
price of OEM versions (at least for existing products XP, Office,
Server..... etc). The key differences for Retail version which was touted
by even MS licensing professionals over years has always been that the
retail version has transfer rights to other computers (and the one-transfer
limit was not in the old EULAs).

So now that the one-transfer clause is "clarified" into Vista EULA, why
should people buy Vista retail package? common sense would dictate that
when the cost of Vista retail is roughly twice (actually a little bit more
than twice in most cases) of the OEM with ONE ADDITIONAL TRANSFER RIGHT than
the OEM licenses, why pay more for the retail version?

And before you say that normal people can't buy OEM...... Yes they can as
long as they buy it with certain hardware components, like
HD/motherboards.....

"Gene Fitz" <GeneFitz@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:85F31EB7-0FDE-47FA-AD53-D9E04D54855C@microsoft.com...
> Jeff,
> Not to sound rude about this, but the EULA is layed out pretty bluntly,
> you
> buy the liscense for the computer, not for yourself. That is what makes
> this
> liscense different. it is also the reason they say "only one computer
> change."
> This is what makes the Vista EULA different from the older OS. See? This
> is
> what all the hub bub is about. this is what has people pissed off. I don't
> have a problem with it, but many do.
> In some of the older liscenses, the EULA left an opening that you could
> use
> the program on as many computers as you wanted, as long as you were using
> it
> on one computer at a time.
> The exception to that rule was OEM packaged software that you could only
> use
> on one computer (the computer it came with) which is why later HP,
> Gateway,
> and other computer companies started making the restore function a
> partition
> of the hard drive, or started merging the OS into the "Full Restore" disks
> that would only work on the computer it came with.
> This new EULA states that you are buying the program for the computer,
> which
> changes the ball game. It tells you that you can use it one one computer,
> but
> you can transfer it once. That means you can transfer it to another
> computer
> only one time, than the liscense is only for that computer and you may not
> transfer it again, without buying a new liscense key.
> the issue that people have is "What is a new computer? and What is a
> upgraded old computer"
> the answer is simple, minor upgrades, video, sound, Memory, port changes,
> etc. are seen as upgrades. Major changes, CPU, Mainboard, Hard Drive, they
> may constitute a new computer.
> I mean, lets be realistic. If you load Vista on a P4 HT, with 1 Gig ram, a
> 200 Gig hard drive,16 bit sound card, and a AGP Video card, then update
> to a
> Athlon 64 X2 5000+, with 4 Gigs ram, 2X 750 Gig Hard drives, HD sound and
> a
> PCI Express 7900GT, and put it in the same case as your old computer, is
> it
> still your old computer? Granted, your case and perripherals are the same,
> but it is a new computer with an old case and DVD Rom.
> Now I am sure there will be exceptions to the rule, depending on the
> situation. But I mean fair is fair. Microsoft says, if you get a new
> computer, get a new liscense. I am cool with it.
> Now another point to make, as some of us older computing folks are
> starting
> to understand, as the rest of the public already knows.
> It is easier, and in most cases, cheaper to buy an OEM computer. Now, 80%
> or
> more of the Windows XP programs are sold in OEM packages. Knowing this,
> that
> 80% of consumers will not even have to worry about the EULA stipulation.
> You
> will buy a new computer loaded with vista, that will have either the
> restore
> system or restore disks that will only be able to be used on that computer
> anyway. Microsoft knows that as well, which is why the new EULA will be,
> for
> the most, a transparent change.
>
> People are making Mount Ranier out of a mole hill here..
>
> "Jeff" wrote:
>
>> Gene;
>> Basically,
>> Hardware shouldnt be an issue-at all; if i lease an o.s.-and i switch
>> computers;I'm taking my leased o.s. with me . Not that I intend it;but
>> say I
>> have a hardware fail;buy a new pc;there's #1;if in the course of events;I
>> decide I either don't like that hardware;or switch it for any reason;
>> said
>> o.s. is coming with me;and it better work on #2 period.
>> If MSFT has a problem with that;then they'll lose my business; and
>> I'd
>> dare say;lots of people feel that way.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> "Gene Fitz" <GeneFitz@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:20C008A3-6C93-4720-BBF1-CA4CDFF7D5FE@microsoft.com...
>> > See, now there is a misconception. If your computer crashes, and
>> > you
>> > have to reload it, it should still activate without issue, and if there
>> > is
>> > a
>> > siutuation where you have to call in activation, that shouldn't be a
>> > problem
>> > either. Look, no one is telling you that you have to be perfect and you
>> > can't
>> > re-load. That is not a problem. You can re-load it on the same computer
>> > as
>> > many times as you see fit.
>> > The difference is that unlike Windows XP, if you change your
>> > computer
>> > (replace the mainboard, hard drive, processor, etc.), you can do that
>> > once
>> > (within reason, of course). Now if you call Microsoft and say "My hard
>> > drive
>> > burnt out on me, and I had to replace it." I am sure they wouldn't have
>> > a
>> > problem giving you another liscense, as long as you aren't calling them
>> > for a
>> > hard drive this week, a mainboard next month and a processor 3 months
>> > from
>> > now. Common sense will prevail. They are even saying that you can buy
>> > yourself a new computer, or build yourself a new computer once and
>> > change
>> > the
>> > liscense over to it. Not that hard to deal with.
>> > The best advice I can say is if you are already running RC1 or RC2,
>> > use
>> > that as your test platform, get all the upgrades you think you will
>> > need.
>> > My
>> > goal is to have 4.5 to 5.0 index before Vista is bought. This way, I
>> > will
>> > not
>> > have to worry about upgrades.
>> > In the coming months I will be buying 2 hard drives, maybe a new
>> > processor (I am already runnign a 64 X2 4600), a new graphics card, and
>> > a
>> > couple more gigs of ram. You have time to do that, you have a few
>> > months
>> > before it hits the shelves. This way, after you load Vista, you won't
>> > have
>> > to
>> > worry about "I need upgrades because I am running too slow." You know
>> > what
>> > your computer needs, you have the ability to "Get Ready!"
>> > Moreover, the RC versions, from what I understand will remain
>> > operational, at least for a little while after the market release, so
>> > you
>> > will have time. Then again, you don't have to be the first person in
>> > line
>> > at
>> > the store to buy Vista either. It may be a good idea to wait until you
>> > know
>> > your computer is ready for Vista before you buy it.
>> > The EULA isn't made to tie our hands, but it does encourage one to
>> > think about things first. It also forces us to do a little planning
>> > before
>> > acting. A couple routes to go. Eitehr upgrade before you install, or
>> > upgrade
>> > after you install, but plan it out and when you do that upgrading, do
>> > it
>> > all
>> > at once, whether you buy the parts at the same time, or buy the parts
>> > over
>> > time and install it all at the same time.
>> >
>> > this shouldn't be an issue. :-)
>> >
>> > "Piet Fourie" wrote:
>> >
>> >> I can understand that Piracy is a problem, but for me, it will also be
>> >> a
>> >> problem to keep on buying new licenses. I am just a normal guy in the
>> >> street, earning an average income. Computer Technology changes all the
>> >> time.
>> >> Anyway, I also try other software and in the process sometimes crashes
>> >> the
>> >> PC, and wants to do it all over..........I simply cannot afford it !
>> >> It
>> >> is
>> >> unreasonable to have such a heavy hand on OS's. After all, I believe
>> >> it
>> >> is
>> >> the smaller guys who also promoted Microsoft Software world wide. I
>> >> will
>> >> never believe that MS is so cash strapped that all these restrictions
>> >> are
>> >> necessary.
>> >>
>> >> "Robert Firth" <webmaster@winvistainfo.org> wrote in message
>> >> news:63515BFD-09A1-4A75-B51D-6013C4B99B7A@microsoft.com...
>> >> > Not only will the legitimate customers be pleased, but the software
>> >> > pirates will as well. Besides, what is so difficult about one
>> >> > license,
>> >> > one
>> >> > computer? If you change everything about your computer except the
>> >> > case,
>> >> > then that is still a new computer. That would be 2 computers, one
>> >> > license.
>> >> > It is pretty simple. If you change the graphics card, well, that is
>> >> > the
>> >> > same computer.
>> >> >
>> >> > Last I checked WGA checks on your hard drive serial number, the
>> >> > motherboard, and bios version, among a few other less important
>> >> > things,
>> >> > weighing changes accordingly.
>> >> >
>> >> > So if you want to transfer your license from one computer to
>> >> > another,
>> >> > you
>> >> > are really trying to put it on many different computers with only
>> >> > one
>> >> > license.
>> >> >
>> >> > We have all discussed the terms of the EULA. However, we don't
>> >> > really
>> >> > know
>> >> > how this is being enforced programmatically yet, nor do we know what
>> >> > Microsoft will do if you call them and tell them that you upgraded
>> >> > your
>> >> > computer and that it failed.
>> >> >
>> >> > A one time transfer doesn't necessarily mean you can only activate
>> >> > it
>> >> > twice, nor does it mean that you can only upgrade your computer
>> >> > once.
>> >> > It
>> >> > simply means you can't move the license from one computer to another
>> >> > more
>> >> > than once. Moving your license from one computer to another is
>> >> > pretty
>> >> > arbitrary, but needs to be defined by Microsoft before we all freak
>> >> > out.
>> >> > It may be that if you call Microsoft and tell them you upgraded your
>> >> > computer, not transfered the license, that they will be able to
>> >> > manually
>> >> > override it for you.
>> >> >
>> >> > The demands from Microsoft aren't all that outragous. Have you seen
>> >> > how
>> >> > many cameras there are in Walmart reporting back and recording your
>> >> > every
>> >> > move? You know that they could use advanced face recognition
>> >> > technology
>> >> > identify you and keep track of your spending habits. Does that mean
>> >> > that
>> >> > they do? No. Likewise, that data Microsoft gathers is INTENTIONALLY
>> >> > handled in such a way that they can't identify you. Of course they
>> >> > have
>> >> > your IP address. So do I. You aren't as anonymous on the internet as
>> >> > you
>> >> > might think.
>> >> >
>> >> > Robert Firth
>> >> > http://www.winvistainfo.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
>> >> > news:ubb7Xek9GHA.3348@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> Dear Microsoft Folks:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Take out the transfer only once clause from the Vista EULA and
>> >> >> remove
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> forced WGA N type software from the Vista SOFTWARE and you will
>> >> >> please
>> >> >> millions of hobbiests and enthusiasts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> They might even get downright chipper. You might reap a greater
>> >> >> success
>> >> >> than if you don't - just because a lot of people will like you for
>> >> >> it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Do that and I will return to recommending Windows - promise,
>> >> >> Scout's
>> >> >> honour.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>>
>>