NTFS 3.1 and Vista

Vista uses the same NTFS version as XP?2003 does, correct? But what has
changed is how Vista uses what NTFS is capable of, right?

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MoreOn...rsePoints.aspx

Thanks.

Same as XP X64 that I have, and my understanding is uses more of the
available features of that version.

"SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
news:e6RjEw49GHA.4740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Vista uses the same NTFS version as XP?2003 does, correct? But what has
> changed is how Vista uses what NTFS is capable of, right?
>
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MoreOn...rsePoints.aspx
>
> Thanks.
>
>

Vista uses a changed NTFS called a transactional NTFS. It has been changed
singificantly. It's not your dad's NTFS or your dad's XP NTFS. You may not
notice it or use the features but it's been changed. And MSFT is beginning
to document itmore extensively:

MSDN Webcast: The Revolutionary Windows Vista Transactional NTFS (TxF)
Infrastructure (Level 200)


* This event was Recorded on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 *

http://msevents.microsoft.com/CUI/We...CountryCode=US


Transactional NTFS
Transactional NTFS (abbreviated TxF) brings the concept of atomic
transactions to the NTFS file system, allowing Windows application
developers to write file output routines that are guaranteed to either
completely succeed or completely fail.

Transactional NTFS is implemented on top of the Kernel Transaction Manager
(KTM), which is a Windows kernel component first introduced in Windows Vista
that provides transactioning of objects in the kernel. The NTFS file system
already supports journaling of low-level operations, such as writing a block
of data. Transactional NTFS expands on this capability to include:


Transaction Management (TxF)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperFe...sactional_NTFS

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de.../fs/portal.asp

Discussion and explanation relating to the Transactional NTFS feature coming
in Longhorn, plus any other interesting anecdotes...



http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=142120

Going Deep Video on New File System

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going_Deep

To me JCO the term "updated NTFS" means something that has changed and been,
well, updated. How about you?

"Surendra Verma, Development Manager on the Vista Kernel team, digs into
Vista's new Transactional File System whith Charles Torre. TxF, as it is
referred to internally, is a new kernel construct that is part of an updated
Vista NTFS."

See also:

Overview of the Transactional NTFS Programming Model

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...ming_model.asp

Because We Can: Discussion and explanation relating to the Transactional
NTFS feature coming in Longhorn, plus any other interesting anecdotes...

http://blogs.msdn.com/because_we_can...26/422390.aspx

System Services change in Windows Vista
http://blogs.msdn.com/junfeng/archiv...06/689983.aspx

Transactional NTFS Multi updates, transactional. No more worry on what if
one file is updated but the other is not.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de.../fs/portal.asp

Kernel Transaction Manager
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...start_page.asp

The Ntfsresize Frequently Asked Questions
http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html

CH



"SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
news:e6RjEw49GHA.4740@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Vista uses the same NTFS version as XP?2003 does, correct? But what has
> changed is how Vista uses what NTFS is capable of, right?
>
> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/MoreOn...rsePoints.aspx
>
> Thanks.
>
>

> Vista uses a changed NTFS called a transactional NTFS. It has been changed
> singificantly. It's not your dad's NTFS or your dad's XP NTFS. You may not
> notice it or use the features but it's been changed.

I don't see any changes in the file system itself, i.e., how the bits are
arranged on the disk. It looks like NTFS TxF is a much improved journaling
system to ensure data integrity, but not a change in structures on the disk
like from NT/2000 to XP/2003. It looks like Vista may include support for
GUID Partition tables, but again layout seems identical to x64.

Or am I going to discover I'm wrong in a colorful and spectacular way while
using some 3rd party disk utility?

Not sure what you consider spectacular, but several posts have indicated
problems with Vista after using Acronis to format the partition it is
installed on. One poster had problems performing functions using Partition
Magic due to error messages about different versions of NTFS.

"Rob Burnett" <RobBurnett@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:t1htj25ms5p0p6guljstg72mkvmpt4j246@news.microsoft.com...
>
>> Vista uses a changed NTFS called a transactional NTFS. It has been
>> changed
>> singificantly. It's not your dad's NTFS or your dad's XP NTFS. You may
>> not
>> notice it or use the features but it's been changed.
>
> I don't see any changes in the file system itself, i.e., how the bits are
> arranged on the disk. It looks like NTFS TxF is a much improved journaling
> system to ensure data integrity, but not a change in structures on the
> disk
> like from NT/2000 to XP/2003. It looks like Vista may include support for
> GUID Partition tables, but again layout seems identical to x64.
>
> Or am I going to discover I'm wrong in a colorful and spectacular way
> while
> using some 3rd party disk utility?
>

Rob--

You raise an important point as to 3rd party and I think it will take a
couple months before the accounts pour in on them--I haven't tried PM on
Vista or Acronis yet, but www.ranish.com is reported to be Vista compatible
and although Disk Management seems to downsize partitions on Vista without
losing data, it has limitations, and I'm not clear that it increases the
size of them. There have been mixed posts on this group with respect to
that.

CH


"Rob Burnett" <RobBurnett@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:t1htj25ms5p0p6guljstg72mkvmpt4j246@news.microsoft.com...
>
>> Vista uses a changed NTFS called a transactional NTFS. It has been
>> changed
>> singificantly. It's not your dad's NTFS or your dad's XP NTFS. You may
>> not
>> notice it or use the features but it's been changed.
>
> I don't see any changes in the file system itself, i.e., how the bits are
> arranged on the disk. It looks like NTFS TxF is a much improved journaling
> system to ensure data integrity, but not a change in structures on the
> disk
> like from NT/2000 to XP/2003. It looks like Vista may include support for
> GUID Partition tables, but again layout seems identical to x64.
>
> Or am I going to discover I'm wrong in a colorful and spectacular way
> while
> using some 3rd party disk utility?
>

Thanks for the heads up. On further review, I believe $UpCase has changed.
http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archiv...24/769540.aspx

I see the same Partition Magic error 1627 also from Drive Image when writing
a Vista RC-2 image to disk. An OK click allowed the operation to complete
successfully and Vista RC-2 to boot normally. That may be due more to Vista
forgiveness than Drive Image forward compatibility.

An unbootable system with data loss resulting from a legacy offline utility
that errs when writing to an NTFS volume is considered a colorful and
spectacular event. :-)

> Not sure what you consider spectacular, but several posts have indicated
> problems with Vista after using Acronis to format the partition it is
> installed on. One poster had problems performing functions using Partition
> Magic due to error messages about different versions of NTFS.
>
> "Rob Burnett" <RobBurnett@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:t1htj25ms5p0p6guljstg72mkvmpt4j246@news.microsoft.com...
> >
> >> Vista uses a changed NTFS called a transactional NTFS. It has been
> >> changed
> >> singificantly. It's not your dad's NTFS or your dad's XP NTFS. You may
> >> not
> >> notice it or use the features but it's been changed.
> >
> > I don't see any changes in the file system itself, i.e., how the bits are
> > arranged on the disk. It looks like NTFS TxF is a much improved journaling
> > system to ensure data integrity, but not a change in structures on the
> > disk
> > like from NT/2000 to XP/2003. It looks like Vista may include support for
> > GUID Partition tables, but again layout seems identical to x64.
> >
> > Or am I going to discover I'm wrong in a colorful and spectacular way
> > while
> > using some 3rd party disk utility?
> >
>

Well, I'll post what happens to me when I use Partition Magic 8 on a Vista
partition. Maybe it makes sense to someone, and this is about a 68 gig
partition.

Error 110 -- length of partition in partition table is incorrect.
CAS length 97385730
LBA length 93771776
File System 93785730

If I allow PM to fix the error, I end up with an error #105 and the
partition seems to become unusable.

Clark

"Rob Burnett" <RobBurnett@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:e540k2ha50ctv6fgail7qboj9kjccbg9gm@news.microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the heads up. On further review, I believe $UpCase has changed.
> http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archiv...24/769540.aspx
>
> I see the same Partition Magic error 1627 also from Drive Image when
> writing
> a Vista RC-2 image to disk. An OK click allowed the operation to complete
> successfully and Vista RC-2 to boot normally. That may be due more to
> Vista
> forgiveness than Drive Image forward compatibility.
>
> An unbootable system with data loss resulting from a legacy offline
> utility
> that errs when writing to an NTFS volume is considered a colorful and
> spectacular event. :-)
>
>> Not sure what you consider spectacular, but several posts have indicated
>> problems with Vista after using Acronis to format the partition it is
>> installed on. One poster had problems performing functions using
>> Partition
>> Magic due to error messages about different versions of NTFS.
>>
>> "Rob Burnett" <RobBurnett@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:t1htj25ms5p0p6guljstg72mkvmpt4j246@news.microsoft.com...
>> >
>> >> Vista uses a changed NTFS called a transactional NTFS. It has been
>> >> changed
>> >> singificantly. It's not your dad's NTFS or your dad's XP NTFS. You
>> >> may
>> >> not
>> >> notice it or use the features but it's been changed.
>> >
>> > I don't see any changes in the file system itself, i.e., how the bits
>> > are
>> > arranged on the disk. It looks like NTFS TxF is a much improved
>> > journaling
>> > system to ensure data integrity, but not a change in structures on the
>> > disk
>> > like from NT/2000 to XP/2003. It looks like Vista may include support
>> > for
>> > GUID Partition tables, but again layout seems identical to x64.
>> >
>> > Or am I going to discover I'm wrong in a colorful and spectacular way
>> > while
>> > using some 3rd party disk utility?
>> >
>>
>