Vista - Disk Defragmenter

David--

I see your point on the defrag in that defrag while not a very sexy concept
sure is vitally important and is underused by the general population. It's
not hard for any of us to run into people who never heard of it, and I
understand it's probably not the major topic of conversation at most
cocktail parties or clubs.

There are two schools of thought on reg cleaners and I subscribe to Ed
Bott's (Author of soon to be on sale Windows Vista Inside Out MSFT Press) in
that you really don't know what they are doing under the hood. Sure they
purport that you have x number of errors, (I've seen them say you have
hundreds), but I believe you can spell their functionality easily with
normal maintainance.

Why I Don't Use Registry Cleaners Ed Bott
www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000643.html

Privacy Software and Windows Onecare I agree and MSFT obviously sees WOC as
a separate revenue stream. Defender comes in Vista, and is free for download
to users of other Windows.

CH



"David Fumento" <dfumento@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eWMPDeLFHHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Thanks for pointing out PD8 which will also work with Vista.
>
> But I disagree with others in that I think that the Windows OS should
> include all of these "utilities" that you buy from third parties.
>
> 1. The best defrag including registry defrag.
> 2. Registry cleaner.
> 3. Privacy software (e.g. hide IP address if desired)
> 4. Windows Live (e.g. firewall, anti-spyware, anti-virus).
>
> Especially in laptops with their slower and smaller HDs, you need the
> better defrag built into Windows OS. More and more people are buying
> these laptops....
>
> If you buy all of these items separately and given that Windows Live is
> subscription, you can pay much more for the additional software than for
> the Windows OS itself.
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <FixVista'nRedmondToo@kickit.net> wrote in message
> news:Ol731$IFHHA.4432@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Jeff--
>>
>> I really like Raxco but I have also used Diskeeper but they don't have as
>> generous an offer. Raxco taking into account that for many people, RTM
>> may not be available worldwide until later in January although I have
>> already seen it sold in Comp USA this morning along with Office 2007, is
>> offerring the Vista version for several months as a full functionality
>> trial. I like the interface for defragging at Boot Time (the MFT /Master
>> File Table or paging file--or running a boot time chkdsk a little better
>> with Diskeeper but Raxco has been my main squeeze.
>>
>> If you're interested in defrag, Jill Zoeller's article has some good info
>> and Jill has been very concientious about posting a lot of the beta chats
>> on her blog, and a lot of other very good info, as has Josh at Windows
>> Connected who helps out frequently on these groups--including one with
>> the Vista defrag team/and some members of her file core services team at
>> MSFT that drills into the details of defrag in Vista:
>>
>> From Jill Zoeller's helpful blog The Filing Cabinet:
>>
>> http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx
>>
>>
>> Disk Defragmenter Beta Chat Transcript (July 26, 2006)
>> Chat Topic: Disk Defragmentation
>> Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2006
>> http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/pages/447168.aspx
>>
>> A quick note about Defrag.exe parameters in Windows Vista
>> http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/arc...arameters.aspx
>>
>>
>> That MSFT is shipping utilities like this is to their credit. They try
>> to make them better every OS--and I wouldn't doubt that they are not
>> going to put out a competent utility that they've tested thoroughly if
>> they put it out at all. No one could possibly expect them to include for
>> the price of the OS many third party apps of course, and I'm sure they
>> try to walk a fine line legally as well and still take care of their
>> customers that way.
>>
>> They obviously deserve credit for improving defrag over the Win 9X Scan
>> Disk that took a long time, and was erratic, particularly in the dreaded
>> (I so hate to curse on the web "Win ME"--Win ME stood for 'Mental
>> Emergency' or ''Miserable Experience' or "Most Eggregious" in IT
>> vernacular), and they have included a Diskmgmt tool that now will re-size
>> partitions without losing material and a DVD-writer in Vista.
>>
>> As to the control panel icon for defrag in Vista, I don't see it on the
>> final relase. I've used every build they had since July, and I never
>> noticed one. I know you can hit defrag 3 ways:
>>
>> 1) you can as you can with many programs and locations simply type defrag
>> above the start button and it comes up immediately--Search in Vista and
>> that situation were quickly one of my favorite convenience type features
>> in Vista in contrast to Win XP's often erratic slow search
>> 2) As in Win XP you can right click Computer or if you have it set to
>> slide out the Vista drive>properties>tools>defrag button
>> 3) Defrag can be run at the command line.
>>
>> If you have a CP icon, I'm not sure it's default unless I miss it, but in
>> addition to Ramesh's tweak/fix from his excellent site, you might try
>> items 280 and 291 at Kelly'x XP and see if those regedits help you with
>> defrag in Vista. Many XP regedits there and VB scripts work in Vista,
>> but understandably not all.
>>
>> Kelly's [MSFT MVP] Tweaks from Kelly's Korner
>> http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm
>>
>> CH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Jeff Gaines" <whitedragon@newsgroups.nospam> wrote in message
>> news:xn0euc1oc47yb8003@msnews.microsoft.com...
>>> On 30/11/2006 in message <eqby03HFHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl> Chad
>>> Harris wrote:
>>>
>>>>You can't expect MSFT financially or legally to ship a defrag utility
>>>>that compares with companies who make them and they won't and don't.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the links. I didn't expect MS to distribute a full blown
>>> commercial de-fragger, it would be another opportunity for the
>>> competition authorities!
>>>
>>> I was surprised to be pointed to a non-existent icon in Control Panel
>>> though, nobody has commented on this.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jeff Gaines
>>
>
>

Doesn't One Care also include a registry cleaner in addition to the items
you listed for it in #4?

> But I disagree with others in that I think that the Windows OS should
> include all of these "utilities" that you buy from third parties.
>
> 1. The best defrag including registry defrag.
> 2. Registry cleaner.
> 3. Privacy software (e.g. hide IP address if desired)
> 4. Windows Live (e.g. firewall, anti-spyware, anti-virus).
>

I can't find the registry cleaner in OneCare but it is available here:
http://safety.live.com which is the on-line version from Microsoft.

By charging for OneCare, Microsoft is deriving benefit from people writing
viruses, spyware, hacking, etc. who receive no "compensation for their
efforts." The maintenance (e.g. registry clean, temporary file deletion)
should certainly be built into the OS. But since it is available in the
link above, it is effectively the same.

Also, I think that partitioning such as Partition Magic and disk imaging
such as Acronis True Image should as well as all the features of CD/DVD
burning software should be built in the OS as well. After all, we are not
charged for drivers for hard drives, they come with the OS. So why
shouldn't all of the drivers/movie viewers, etc. work that way for Windows
OS?


"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
news:%23xwg4qLFHHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Doesn't One Care also include a registry cleaner in addition to the items
> you listed for it in #4?
>
>> But I disagree with others in that I think that the Windows OS should
>> include all of these "utilities" that you buy from third parties.
>>
>> 1. The best defrag including registry defrag.
>> 2. Registry cleaner.
>> 3. Privacy software (e.g. hide IP address if desired)
>> 4. Windows Live (e.g. firewall, anti-spyware, anti-virus).
>>
>
>

CompletePC Backup is a full imaging app.

> Also, I think that partitioning such as Partition Magic and disk imaging
> such as Acronis True Image should as well as all the features of CD/DVD
> burning software should be built in the OS as well.

Colin--

One care has these but no reg cleaner--essentially it has defrag, cleanup
capability, backup, and antivirus.

Their feeling on the backup was to make it simple.

Learn about Windows Live OneCare, the new comprehensive PC care service from
Microsoft.
www.windowsonecare.com/prodinfo/features.aspx

It plans to add some features:
http://windowsonecare.spaces.live.com/


I have used the regcleaner Registy Mechanic, from what used to be called
www.winguides.com or now www.pctools.com

http://www.pctools.com/registry-mechanic/. I felt pretty confident, because
the people associated with the site who develop their software have a
serious command and respect for the registry, but you still couldn't verify
exactly that it did what it claimed to do.

They also make a popular gui interface tweaker:
http://www.winguides.com/tweak/

As you know the common complaint on the backup for One Care and Vista (which
in One Care would be worth the price itself at $33 for 3 licenses I see in
stores and less with rebate) is that it won't backup at the file level.

While I understand somewhat MSFT's explanation voice by Jill Zoeller that
they wanted to make it user friendly for novices and they should be
applauded for trying to get backup in the hands of all Windows users, you
can't help but notice that browse is a very basic fundtion in Windows and I
believe that the company that is trying to write extensive help articles
from the help server and help web site for Vista, (helppane.exe
command at the run box in Vista), and/or their site
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...S/default.mspx
could have made simple directions and screen shotted instructions so that
they could have made a more sophisticated backup. Any of us could have
written them, and MSFT could have as well.

CH




"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
news:%23xwg4qLFHHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Doesn't One Care also include a registry cleaner in addition to the items
> you listed for it in #4?
>
>> But I disagree with others in that I think that the Windows OS should
>> include all of these "utilities" that you buy from third parties.
>>
>> 1. The best defrag including registry defrag.
>> 2. Registry cleaner.
>> 3. Privacy software (e.g. hide IP address if desired)
>> 4. Windows Live (e.g. firewall, anti-spyware, anti-virus).
>>
>
>

David--

Nothing on that site is tantamount to the so-called 3rd party reg cleaners.
MSFT doesn't make a reg cleanre per se, and I'm betting it's because they
don't subscribe to the theory that they are all that reliable and certainly
they aren't verifiable. I don't belive anyone can link me to a "reg
cleaner" that the user can verify what's been done at the key, subkey, or
value level.

CH


"David Fumento" <dfumento@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7fz9tMFHHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I can't find the registry cleaner in OneCare but it is available here:
>http://safety.live.com which is the on-line version from Microsoft.
>
> By charging for OneCare, Microsoft is deriving benefit from people writing
> viruses, spyware, hacking, etc. who receive no "compensation for their
> efforts." The maintenance (e.g. registry clean, temporary file deletion)
> should certainly be built into the OS. But since it is available in the
> link above, it is effectively the same.
>
> Also, I think that partitioning such as Partition Magic and disk imaging
> such as Acronis True Image should as well as all the features of CD/DVD
> burning software should be built in the OS as well. After all, we are not
> charged for drivers for hard drives, they come with the OS. So why
> shouldn't all of the drivers/movie viewers, etc. work that way for Windows
> OS?
>
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:%23xwg4qLFHHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Doesn't One Care also include a registry cleaner in addition to the items
>> you listed for it in #4?
>>
>>> But I disagree with others in that I think that the Windows OS should
>>> include all of these "utilities" that you buy from third parties.
>>>
>>> 1. The best defrag including registry defrag.
>>> 2. Registry cleaner.
>>> 3. Privacy software (e.g. hide IP address if desired)
>>> 4. Windows Live (e.g. firewall, anti-spyware, anti-virus).
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

I saw it on the online version but thought I had seen it on the local.

"Chad Harris" <FixVista'nRedmondToo@kickit.net> wrote in message
news:uSypNyOFHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Colin--
>
> One care has these but no reg cleaner--essentially it has defrag, cleanup
> capability, backup, and antivirus.
>
> Their feeling on the backup was to make it simple.
>
> Learn about Windows Live OneCare, the new comprehensive PC care service
> from Microsoft.
> www.windowsonecare.com/prodinfo/features.aspx
>
> It plans to add some features:
> http://windowsonecare.spaces.live.com/
>
>
> I have used the regcleaner Registy Mechanic, from what used to be called
> www.winguides.com or now www.pctools.com
>
> http://www.pctools.com/registry-mechanic/. I felt pretty confident,
> because the people associated with the site who develop their software
> have a serious command and respect for the registry, but you still
> couldn't verify exactly that it did what it claimed to do.
>
> They also make a popular gui interface tweaker:
> http://www.winguides.com/tweak/
>
> As you know the common complaint on the backup for One Care and Vista
> (which in One Care would be worth the price itself at $33 for 3 licenses I
> see in stores and less with rebate) is that it won't backup at the file
> level.
>
> While I understand somewhat MSFT's explanation voice by Jill Zoeller that
> they wanted to make it user friendly for novices and they should be
> applauded for trying to get backup in the hands of all Windows users, you
> can't help but notice that browse is a very basic fundtion in Windows and
> I believe that the company that is trying to write extensive help articles
> from the help server and help web site for Vista, (helppane.exe
> command at the run box in Vista), and/or their site
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...S/default.mspx
> could have made simple directions and screen shotted instructions so that
> they could have made a more sophisticated backup. Any of us could have
> written them, and MSFT could have as well.
>
> CH
>
>
>
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:%23xwg4qLFHHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Doesn't One Care also include a registry cleaner in addition to the items
>> you listed for it in #4?
>>
>>> But I disagree with others in that I think that the Windows OS should
>>> include all of these "utilities" that you buy from third parties.
>>>
>>> 1. The best defrag including registry defrag.
>>> 2. Registry cleaner.
>>> 3. Privacy software (e.g. hide IP address if desired)
>>> 4. Windows Live (e.g. firewall, anti-spyware, anti-virus).
>>>
>>
>>
>

Colin --

What do those terms mean "on line" version and local? Since the first day
of the original Beta for WOC back in 2004 or 2005 whichever it was, I have
been using on line versions.

I forgot to mention it includes the defragmenter that is the low end one
used in Vista as well.

CH


"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
news:u3Sxp5PFHHA.1080@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I saw it on the online version but thought I had seen it on the local.
>
> "Chad Harris" <FixVista'nRedmondToo@kickit.net> wrote in message
> news:uSypNyOFHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Colin--
>>
>> One care has these but no reg cleaner--essentially it has defrag, cleanup
>> capability, backup, and antivirus.
>>
>> Their feeling on the backup was to make it simple.
>>
>> Learn about Windows Live OneCare, the new comprehensive PC care service
>> from Microsoft.
>> www.windowsonecare.com/prodinfo/features.aspx
>>
>> It plans to add some features:
>> http://windowsonecare.spaces.live.com/
>>
>>
>> I have used the regcleaner Registy Mechanic, from what used to be called
>> www.winguides.com or now www.pctools.com
>>
>> http://www.pctools.com/registry-mechanic/. I felt pretty confident,
>> because the people associated with the site who develop their software
>> have a serious command and respect for the registry, but you still
>> couldn't verify exactly that it did what it claimed to do.
>>
>> They also make a popular gui interface tweaker:
>> http://www.winguides.com/tweak/
>>
>> As you know the common complaint on the backup for One Care and Vista
>> (which in One Care would be worth the price itself at $33 for 3 licenses
>> I see in stores and less with rebate) is that it won't backup at the file
>> level.
>>
>> While I understand somewhat MSFT's explanation voice by Jill Zoeller that
>> they wanted to make it user friendly for novices and they should be
>> applauded for trying to get backup in the hands of all Windows users, you
>> can't help but notice that browse is a very basic fundtion in Windows and
>> I believe that the company that is trying to write extensive help
>> articles from the help server and help web site for Vista, (helppane.exe
>> command at the run box in Vista), and/or their site
>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...S/default.mspx
>> could have made simple directions and screen shotted instructions so that
>> they could have made a more sophisticated backup. Any of us could have
>> written them, and MSFT could have as well.
>>
>> CH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23xwg4qLFHHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> Doesn't One Care also include a registry cleaner in addition to the
>>> items you listed for it in #4?
>>>
>>>> But I disagree with others in that I think that the Windows OS should
>>>> include all of these "utilities" that you buy from third parties.
>>>>
>>>> 1. The best defrag including registry defrag.
>>>> 2. Registry cleaner.
>>>> 3. Privacy software (e.g. hide IP address if desired)
>>>> 4. Windows Live (e.g. firewall, anti-spyware, anti-virus).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

There is an online service equivalent of Live One Care that is something
like what Antivirus vendors provide on their websites for a one time scan.
A web-based app. I used it some a few months ago. A couple of weeks ago an
MS support person ran it on my wife's laptop in a remote assistance session.
I don't know if it is still publically available but it was at one time.

"Chad Harris" <FixVista'nRedmondToo@kickit.net> wrote in message
news:%23pxT7MVFHHA.3268@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Colin --
>
> What do those terms mean "on line" version and local? Since the first day
> of the original Beta for WOC back in 2004 or 2005 whichever it was, I have
> been using on line versions.
>
> I forgot to mention it includes the defragmenter that is the low end one
> used in Vista as well.
>
> CH
>
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:u3Sxp5PFHHA.1080@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>I saw it on the online version but thought I had seen it on the local.
>>
>> "Chad Harris" <FixVista'nRedmondToo@kickit.net> wrote in message
>> news:uSypNyOFHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> Colin--
>>>
>>> One care has these but no reg cleaner--essentially it has defrag,
>>> cleanup capability, backup, and antivirus.
>>>
>>> Their feeling on the backup was to make it simple.
>>>
>>> Learn about Windows Live OneCare, the new comprehensive PC care service
>>> from Microsoft.
>>> www.windowsonecare.com/prodinfo/features.aspx
>>>
>>> It plans to add some features:
>>> http://windowsonecare.spaces.live.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> I have used the regcleaner Registy Mechanic, from what used to be called
>>> www.winguides.com or now www.pctools.com
>>>
>>> http://www.pctools.com/registry-mechanic/. I felt pretty confident,
>>> because the people associated with the site who develop their software
>>> have a serious command and respect for the registry, but you still
>>> couldn't verify exactly that it did what it claimed to do.
>>>
>>> They also make a popular gui interface tweaker:
>>> http://www.winguides.com/tweak/
>>>
>>> As you know the common complaint on the backup for One Care and Vista
>>> (which in One Care would be worth the price itself at $33 for 3 licenses
>>> I see in stores and less with rebate) is that it won't backup at the
>>> file level.
>>>
>>> While I understand somewhat MSFT's explanation voice by Jill Zoeller
>>> that they wanted to make it user friendly for novices and they should be
>>> applauded for trying to get backup in the hands of all Windows users,
>>> you can't help but notice that browse is a very basic fundtion in
>>> Windows and I believe that the company that is trying to write extensive
>>> help articles from the help server and help web site for Vista,
>>> (helppane.exe
>>> command at the run box in Vista), and/or their site
>>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...S/default.mspx
>>> could have made simple directions and screen shotted instructions so
>>> that they could have made a more sophisticated backup. Any of us could
>>> have written them, and MSFT could have as well.
>>>
>>> CH
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23xwg4qLFHHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>> Doesn't One Care also include a registry cleaner in addition to the
>>>> items you listed for it in #4?
>>>>
>>>>> But I disagree with others in that I think that the Windows OS should
>>>>> include all of these "utilities" that you buy from third parties.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. The best defrag including registry defrag.
>>>>> 2. Registry cleaner.
>>>>> 3. Privacy software (e.g. hide IP address if desired)
>>>>> 4. Windows Live (e.g. firewall, anti-spyware, anti-virus).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

I just realized that we are talking about the same thing.

"Chad Harris" <FixVista'nRedmondToo@kickit.net> wrote in message
news:%23pxT7MVFHHA.3268@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Colin --
>
> What do those terms mean "on line" version and local? Since the first day
> of the original Beta for WOC back in 2004 or 2005 whichever it was, I have
> been using on line versions.
>
> I forgot to mention it includes the defragmenter that is the low end one
> used in Vista as well.
>
> CH
>
>
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:u3Sxp5PFHHA.1080@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>I saw it on the online version but thought I had seen it on the local.
>>
>> "Chad Harris" <FixVista'nRedmondToo@kickit.net> wrote in message
>> news:uSypNyOFHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> Colin--
>>>
>>> One care has these but no reg cleaner--essentially it has defrag,
>>> cleanup capability, backup, and antivirus.
>>>
>>> Their feeling on the backup was to make it simple.
>>>
>>> Learn about Windows Live OneCare, the new comprehensive PC care service
>>> from Microsoft.
>>> www.windowsonecare.com/prodinfo/features.aspx
>>>
>>> It plans to add some features:
>>> http://windowsonecare.spaces.live.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> I have used the regcleaner Registy Mechanic, from what used to be called
>>> www.winguides.com or now www.pctools.com
>>>
>>> http://www.pctools.com/registry-mechanic/. I felt pretty confident,
>>> because the people associated with the site who develop their software
>>> have a serious command and respect for the registry, but you still
>>> couldn't verify exactly that it did what it claimed to do.
>>>
>>> They also make a popular gui interface tweaker:
>>> http://www.winguides.com/tweak/
>>>
>>> As you know the common complaint on the backup for One Care and Vista
>>> (which in One Care would be worth the price itself at $33 for 3 licenses
>>> I see in stores and less with rebate) is that it won't backup at the
>>> file level.
>>>
>>> While I understand somewhat MSFT's explanation voice by Jill Zoeller
>>> that they wanted to make it user friendly for novices and they should be
>>> applauded for trying to get backup in the hands of all Windows users,
>>> you can't help but notice that browse is a very basic fundtion in
>>> Windows and I believe that the company that is trying to write extensive
>>> help articles from the help server and help web site for Vista,
>>> (helppane.exe
>>> command at the run box in Vista), and/or their site
>>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...S/default.mspx
>>> could have made simple directions and screen shotted instructions so
>>> that they could have made a more sophisticated backup. Any of us could
>>> have written them, and MSFT could have as well.
>>>
>>> CH
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23xwg4qLFHHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>> Doesn't One Care also include a registry cleaner in addition to the
>>>> items you listed for it in #4?
>>>>
>>>>> But I disagree with others in that I think that the Windows OS should
>>>>> include all of these "utilities" that you buy from third parties.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. The best defrag including registry defrag.
>>>>> 2. Registry cleaner.
>>>>> 3. Privacy software (e.g. hide IP address if desired)
>>>>> 4. Windows Live (e.g. firewall, anti-spyware, anti-virus).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>