Vista - Vista is just another pretty face on XP & dumber

I've been playing Vista Ultimate for about a week and don't see anything I'd
rate as a real advantage over XP except a new pretty facelift and a much
dumber user interface but that seems to be the trend. Vista is tweaked to
make most all of our previous programs obsolete and this makes Vendor furious
since they must pay thousands to get their drivers updated & approved by MS.
Plus we then have to pay Hundeds to update our software and we still have
bugs!!
This is why the Mac people are going to have a serious laugh about using
Vista on Apple PC's since the Mac OS is 100 times more useful and
PROFESSIONAL and you'll soon see a migration to MACs more and more since it's
not as bad of a scam as Windows has become. Vista basically is the Millenium
to WIN98 which wasn't anything really different. BTW, I'm a WINXP user & so
far have never tried the Mac but it's getting closer all the time.

I don't think there's much merit to what you're saying. While Vista does
use some XP and earlier code, it really is a new operating system. I, for
one, don't care if any of my old software works on it. I am really tired of
having the advances in operating systems hindered by the need to support old
16 bit DOS programs.

I think Microsoft didn't do enough to eliminate compatibility with existing
software. I would love to see what an operating system could be if it were
designed with the best features of current hardware in mind and no
consideration at all for compatibility with software written for older
hardware.

There are a lot of things in Vista that are done completely different from
XP. While I often find those things to not be intuitive and sometimes the
new way is just wrong, and that's a problem, we all just need to remember
that we're moving on to a new way. Compatibility with the XP UI way of
doing things and compatibility with XP software should not be the goal. The
goal should be to provide a great experience using the latest OS on the
latest hardware.

Dale


"JB" <JB@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7BAAF5E5-6BF2-4AAA-91BD-F0B8E0267B33@microsoft.com...
> I've been playing Vista Ultimate for about a week and don't see anything
> I'd
> rate as a real advantage over XP except a new pretty facelift and a much
> dumber user interface but that seems to be the trend. Vista is tweaked to
> make most all of our previous programs obsolete and this makes Vendor
> furious
> since they must pay thousands to get their drivers updated & approved by
> MS.
> Plus we then have to pay Hundeds to update our software and we still have
> bugs!!
> This is why the Mac people are going to have a serious laugh about using
> Vista on Apple PC's since the Mac OS is 100 times more useful and
> PROFESSIONAL and you'll soon see a migration to MACs more and more since
> it's
> not as bad of a scam as Windows has become. Vista basically is the
> Millenium
> to WIN98 which wasn't anything really different. BTW, I'm a WINXP user &
> so
> far have never tried the Mac but it's getting closer all the time.

OOpps... you just lost 3 points of IQ.... quick format and install XP
before its too late


"Dale" <nospam@nospam.ever> wrote in message
news:u1tgTJwFHHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I don't think there's much merit to what you're saying. While Vista does
>use some XP and earlier code, it really is a new operating system. I, for
>one, don't care if any of my old software works on it. I am really tired
>of having the advances in operating systems hindered by the need to support
>old 16 bit DOS programs.
>
> I think Microsoft didn't do enough to eliminate compatibility with
> existing software. I would love to see what an operating system could be
> if it were designed with the best features of current hardware in mind and
> no consideration at all for compatibility with software written for older
> hardware.
>
> There are a lot of things in Vista that are done completely different from
> XP. While I often find those things to not be intuitive and sometimes the
> new way is just wrong, and that's a problem, we all just need to remember
> that we're moving on to a new way. Compatibility with the XP UI way of
> doing things and compatibility with XP software should not be the goal.
> The goal should be to provide a great experience using the latest OS on
> the latest hardware.
>
> Dale
>
>
> "JB" <JB@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:7BAAF5E5-6BF2-4AAA-91BD-F0B8E0267B33@microsoft.com...
>> I've been playing Vista Ultimate for about a week and don't see anything
>> I'd
>> rate as a real advantage over XP except a new pretty facelift and a much
>> dumber user interface but that seems to be the trend. Vista is tweaked to
>> make most all of our previous programs obsolete and this makes Vendor
>> furious
>> since they must pay thousands to get their drivers updated & approved by
>> MS.
>> Plus we then have to pay Hundeds to update our software and we still have
>> bugs!!
>> This is why the Mac people are going to have a serious laugh about using
>> Vista on Apple PC's since the Mac OS is 100 times more useful and
>> PROFESSIONAL and you'll soon see a migration to MACs more and more since
>> it's
>> not as bad of a scam as Windows has become. Vista basically is the
>> Millenium
>> to WIN98 which wasn't anything really different. BTW, I'm a WINXP user &
>> so
>> far have never tried the Mac but it's getting closer all the time.
>

Since your post is an opinion, and it's hard to prove an opinion wrong, I
would only state the following:

- People expect a fact lift with a new OS, that's why they have the new
jazzed-up UI. If they had just left the classic interface, everyone would be
complaining about how boring it is and why haven't they done anything to
change it. People are never happy, even when given what they ask for.
- Apparently, you are unfamiliar with how installed programs operate within
this new user environment, and how this helps keep your system from getting
trashed by poorly written programs. It also helps keep junior from crapping
up mom & dad's machine. There is a whole new engine underneath that dumber
UI, not everything that has changed is on the surface. If they had changed
everything about the user interface, people would have complained about that
too. It's be like trying out Linux for the first time where you don't know
anything about where anything is or how to accomplish something as simple
as opening a web page (or trying to install a driver so that your nic or
modem will work - now that can be a challenge).
- I'm guessing, but you probably were annoyed by prompts and disabled UAC,
and now are exposing your system to infection by viruses and other malware.
Once you are infected, you will get to share this with others. People
complain about wanting a secure system, then immediately set about disabling
the security.
- While some programs that rely on specific device drivers need to be
updated, many older programs run just fine under Vista. In fact, I'd think
it's safe to say that it is far more backwards compatible than XP was at its
release. Those that knew of these changes have dragged their feet in
producing compatible driver files, and that's Microsoft's fault how? The SDK
and DDK for Vista have been available for quite some time.
- You've not looked at the long-sought after parental controls, or you are
not a parent.
- People complain that it's taken 5 years for Vista. Well, the hardware
makers have had all that time to come up with compliant device drivers (much
of that code was in early alpha builds years ago) and many haven't yet.
- Macs - what can you say about them? People complain about Microsoft being
closed-source, yet they are able to supply an OS that will run on pretty
much any generically built x86 hardware. You weren't stuck with buying
Microsoft's hardware, you could buy what suited you best. Macs were limited
to only their own hardware for many years, and have migrated to x86 hardware
probably only because someone there realized that there was no future in
their proprietary platform.
- Vista is to XP as Millenium was to 98? Not hardly, not even close. ME was
a logical progression from 98's core, Vista's core uses familiar snap-ins,
but the similarities end there, and those interfaces were left so that the
underlying changes didn't create a whole new huge learning curve like moving
from DOS to Win3.x did.

Just my opinion, based on the roughly 4+ years I've been involved in the
development of Longhorn.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"JB" <JB@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7BAAF5E5-6BF2-4AAA-91BD-F0B8E0267B33@microsoft.com...
> I've been playing Vista Ultimate for about a week and don't see anything
> I'd
> rate as a real advantage over XP except a new pretty facelift and a much
> dumber user interface but that seems to be the trend. Vista is tweaked to
> make most all of our previous programs obsolete and this makes Vendor
> furious
> since they must pay thousands to get their drivers updated & approved by
> MS.
> Plus we then have to pay Hundeds to update our software and we still have
> bugs!!
> This is why the Mac people are going to have a serious laugh about using
> Vista on Apple PC's since the Mac OS is 100 times more useful and
> PROFESSIONAL and you'll soon see a migration to MACs more and more since
> it's
> not as bad of a scam as Windows has become. Vista basically is the
> Millenium
> to WIN98 which wasn't anything really different. BTW, I'm a WINXP user &
> so
> far have never tried the Mac but it's getting closer all the time.

You replied to my message but I think your response is directed at JB.

Dale

"Rick Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:uBdXnswFHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Since your post is an opinion, and it's hard to prove an opinion wrong, I
> would only state the following:
>
> - People expect a fact lift with a new OS, that's why they have the new
> jazzed-up UI. If they had just left the classic interface, everyone would
> be complaining about how boring it is and why haven't they done anything
> to change it. People are never happy, even when given what they ask for.
> - Apparently, you are unfamiliar with how installed programs operate
> within this new user environment, and how this helps keep your system from
> getting trashed by poorly written programs. It also helps keep junior from
> crapping up mom & dad's machine. There is a whole new engine underneath
> that dumber UI, not everything that has changed is on the surface. If they
> had changed everything about the user interface, people would have
> complained about that too. It's be like trying out Linux for the first
> time where you don't know anything about where anything is or how to
> accomplish something as simple as opening a web page (or trying to install
> a driver so that your nic or modem will work - now that can be a
> challenge).
> - I'm guessing, but you probably were annoyed by prompts and disabled UAC,
> and now are exposing your system to infection by viruses and other
> malware. Once you are infected, you will get to share this with others.
> People complain about wanting a secure system, then immediately set about
> disabling the security.
> - While some programs that rely on specific device drivers need to be
> updated, many older programs run just fine under Vista. In fact, I'd think
> it's safe to say that it is far more backwards compatible than XP was at
> its release. Those that knew of these changes have dragged their feet in
> producing compatible driver files, and that's Microsoft's fault how? The
> SDK and DDK for Vista have been available for quite some time.
> - You've not looked at the long-sought after parental controls, or you are
> not a parent.
> - People complain that it's taken 5 years for Vista. Well, the hardware
> makers have had all that time to come up with compliant device drivers
> (much of that code was in early alpha builds years ago) and many haven't
> yet.
> - Macs - what can you say about them? People complain about Microsoft
> being closed-source, yet they are able to supply an OS that will run on
> pretty much any generically built x86 hardware. You weren't stuck with
> buying Microsoft's hardware, you could buy what suited you best. Macs were
> limited to only their own hardware for many years, and have migrated to
> x86 hardware probably only because someone there realized that there was
> no future in their proprietary platform.
> - Vista is to XP as Millenium was to 98? Not hardly, not even close. ME
> was a logical progression from 98's core, Vista's core uses familiar
> snap-ins, but the similarities end there, and those interfaces were left
> so that the underlying changes didn't create a whole new huge learning
> curve like moving from DOS to Win3.x did.
>
> Just my opinion, based on the roughly 4+ years I've been involved in the
> development of Longhorn.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>
> "JB" <JB@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:7BAAF5E5-6BF2-4AAA-91BD-F0B8E0267B33@microsoft.com...
>> I've been playing Vista Ultimate for about a week and don't see anything
>> I'd
>> rate as a real advantage over XP except a new pretty facelift and a much
>> dumber user interface but that seems to be the trend. Vista is tweaked to
>> make most all of our previous programs obsolete and this makes Vendor
>> furious
>> since they must pay thousands to get their drivers updated & approved by
>> MS.
>> Plus we then have to pay Hundeds to update our software and we still have
>> bugs!!
>> This is why the Mac people are going to have a serious laugh about using
>> Vista on Apple PC's since the Mac OS is 100 times more useful and
>> PROFESSIONAL and you'll soon see a migration to MACs more and more since
>> it's
>> not as bad of a scam as Windows has become. Vista basically is the
>> Millenium
>> to WIN98 which wasn't anything really different. BTW, I'm a WINXP user &
>> so
>> far have never tried the Mac but it's getting closer all the time.
>

Dale wrote:
> I don't think there's much merit to what you're saying. While Vista
> does use some XP and earlier code, it really is a new operating system.

Yeah, it's called XP SE.

Alias

Agreed. Lets make it an OS *only* with NO imbedded applets. Lets make
it open source. Lets make it so any/all the software items we want to
use are run as add-ons/plug-ins so nothing is running in the background
(read dozens of 'services' - for example) using up resources.

Lets call it L????.

Dale wrote:

<SNIP>
I would love to see what an operating system could
> be if it were designed with the best features of current hardware in
> mind and no consideration at all for compatibility with software written
> for older hardware.

<SNIP>

If you lose 3 IQ points, that will put you into the negative area.. grow up
please and leave these newsgroups for what was intended..


"MicroFox" <-> wrote in message news:eYQevmwFHHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> OOpps... you just lost 3 points of IQ.... quick format and install XP
> before its too late
>
>
> "Dale" <nospam@nospam.ever> wrote in message
> news:u1tgTJwFHHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>I don't think there's much merit to what you're saying. While Vista does
>>use some XP and earlier code, it really is a new operating system. I, for
>>one, don't care if any of my old software works on it. I am really tired
>>of having the advances in operating systems hindered by the need to
>>support old 16 bit DOS programs.
>>
>> I think Microsoft didn't do enough to eliminate compatibility with
>> existing software. I would love to see what an operating system could be
>> if it were designed with the best features of current hardware in mind
>> and no consideration at all for compatibility with software written for
>> older hardware.
>>
>> There are a lot of things in Vista that are done completely different
>> from XP. While I often find those things to not be intuitive and
>> sometimes the new way is just wrong, and that's a problem, we all just
>> need to remember that we're moving on to a new way. Compatibility with
>> the XP UI way of doing things and compatibility with XP software should
>> not be the goal. The goal should be to provide a great experience using
>> the latest OS on the latest hardware.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>>
>> "JB" <JB@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:7BAAF5E5-6BF2-4AAA-91BD-F0B8E0267B33@microsoft.com...
>>> I've been playing Vista Ultimate for about a week and don't see anything
>>> I'd
>>> rate as a real advantage over XP except a new pretty facelift and a much
>>> dumber user interface but that seems to be the trend. Vista is tweaked
>>> to
>>> make most all of our previous programs obsolete and this makes Vendor
>>> furious
>>> since they must pay thousands to get their drivers updated & approved by
>>> MS.
>>> Plus we then have to pay Hundeds to update our software and we still
>>> have
>>> bugs!!
>>> This is why the Mac people are going to have a serious laugh about using
>>> Vista on Apple PC's since the Mac OS is 100 times more useful and
>>> PROFESSIONAL and you'll soon see a migration to MACs more and more since
>>> it's
>>> not as bad of a scam as Windows has become. Vista basically is the
>>> Millenium
>>> to WIN98 which wasn't anything really different. BTW, I'm a WINXP user &
>>> so
>>> far have never tried the Mac but it's getting closer all the time.
>>
>
>

Its intention is not one that you can define.

its intention is self defined by the conversation that are related to vista.

General means general, and any effort on your part to reduce its diversity
is what is truly negative.


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23V3RhMxFHHA.2464@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> If you lose 3 IQ points, that will put you into the negative area.. grow
> up please and leave these newsgroups for what was intended..
>
>
> "MicroFox" <-> wrote in message
> news:eYQevmwFHHA.536@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> OOpps... you just lost 3 points of IQ.... quick format and install XP
>> before its too late
>>
>>
>> "Dale" <nospam@nospam.ever> wrote in message
>> news:u1tgTJwFHHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>I don't think there's much merit to what you're saying. While Vista does
>>>use some XP and earlier code, it really is a new operating system. I,
>>>for one, don't care if any of my old software works on it. I am really
>>>tired of having the advances in operating systems hindered by the need to
>>>support old 16 bit DOS programs.
>>>
>>> I think Microsoft didn't do enough to eliminate compatibility with
>>> existing software. I would love to see what an operating system could
>>> be if it were designed with the best features of current hardware in
>>> mind and no consideration at all for compatibility with software written
>>> for older hardware.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of things in Vista that are done completely different
>>> from XP. While I often find those things to not be intuitive and
>>> sometimes the new way is just wrong, and that's a problem, we all just
>>> need to remember that we're moving on to a new way. Compatibility with
>>> the XP UI way of doing things and compatibility with XP software should
>>> not be the goal. The goal should be to provide a great experience using
>>> the latest OS on the latest hardware.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>>
>>> "JB" <JB@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7BAAF5E5-6BF2-4AAA-91BD-F0B8E0267B33@microsoft.com...
>>>> I've been playing Vista Ultimate for about a week and don't see
>>>> anything I'd
>>>> rate as a real advantage over XP except a new pretty facelift and a
>>>> much
>>>> dumber user interface but that seems to be the trend. Vista is tweaked
>>>> to
>>>> make most all of our previous programs obsolete and this makes Vendor
>>>> furious
>>>> since they must pay thousands to get their drivers updated & approved
>>>> by MS.
>>>> Plus we then have to pay Hundeds to update our software and we still
>>>> have
>>>> bugs!!
>>>> This is why the Mac people are going to have a serious laugh about
>>>> using
>>>> Vista on Apple PC's since the Mac OS is 100 times more useful and
>>>> PROFESSIONAL and you'll soon see a migration to MACs more and more
>>>> since it's
>>>> not as bad of a scam as Windows has become. Vista basically is the
>>>> Millenium
>>>> to WIN98 which wasn't anything really different. BTW, I'm a WINXP user
>>>> & so
>>>> far have never tried the Mac but it's getting closer all the time.
>>>
>>
>>
>

linux has services too...


"Dr. Heywood Floyd" <dhfloyd@2001.org> wrote in message
news:%23JdvtKxFHHA.1804@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Agreed. Lets make it an OS *only* with NO imbedded applets. Lets make it
> open source. Lets make it so any/all the software items we want to use
> are run as add-ons/plug-ins so nothing is running in the background (read
> dozens of 'services' - for example) using up resources.
>
> Lets call it L????.
>
> Dale wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> I would love to see what an operating system could
>> be if it were designed with the best features of current hardware in mind
>> and no consideration at all for compatibility with software written for
>> older hardware.
>
> <SNIP>