XP Professional OEM to Vista Ultimate Upgrade Transferable?

I plan on purchasing the upgrade version of Vista Ultimate retail edition,
but have a couple questions.

Is it possible to transfer my Vista license in this scenario? I know that
the previous license is wrapped into Vista, so if my hardware fails, or if I
upgrade what will happen since I have to be in the XP environment, yet it
can't be activated?

The whole reason I want the retail version is that I can transfer my copy
down the road whether by recreational choice, or not.

If this is not possible why not call the retail upgrades, retail OEM.

Hope someone can bring some clarity as I am purchasing it tomorrow, want
Ultimate and can't afford the full unless someone wants to donate $200+
Canadian.

Thank You

What will happen is that you will have to reload your XP and activate it.
You can make sure you do a full backup. I don't know what 3rd party imaging
will do for you.

If I were you, I'd hold off and buy a full edition and I'm going to tell you
why. You will not have access to the major tools that Vista provides to
repair it and I'm detailing this below for you.


Let me give you a compelling reason to get a full DVD:

If you do not have a full DVD, or you have an upgrade DVD you are *NOT
going to have the major tools you'll need to fix Vista. You of course will
have System Restore via its new Volume Shadow Copy format adapted from the
Windows Server environment.

Anytime I ever spend $1000-$4000 for a new PC, (I order from an online site
because I like to choose my features and many stores don't have that choice)
I insist on them giving me the Windows OS DVD of the moment, and I have
heard that one is Vista. So either insist on it or buy the full DVD is my
advice.

You of course may have Backup depending on your edition. I applaud them for
doing this, but like a lot of users here, I prefer using an imaging system
like GHOST or ACRONIS or another type that works best for the user.

I am going to include some recent information and questions that are
additional posed on upgrade DVDs this morning and one of the guys who posed
the question writes one of the most comprehensive books on Vista that is
hitting stores this week (Ed Bott author of Windows Vista Inside Out MSFT
Press). I also point out below the major repair modalities in Vista that
you will not access unless you have a full Vista version DVD. You won't be
accessing them via that upgrade DVD.

The Upgrade scenario that MSFT has posed failed to take into consideration
what happens if the person has to format and cannot repair and also failed
to take into consideration that those customers should have full access to
the full panoply of Vista repair tools.

They do not: Read Below please and you'll become a more informed buyer:

MSFT has blocked your ability to repair Vista in two major ways it turns
out:

1) If you do not get a Vista DVD (Dell says you will from them) when you pay
$1000-2000 for your new Vista preloaded computer today, tonight or in the
future you cannot access the repair modalities I describe below from Win RE
on the Vista DVD or the Windows Repair Environment.

2) If you buy an Upgrade DVD.

See below:

And with all the excellent upgrade posts here, including Colin Barnhorst's I
haven't seen this little issue raised. Suppose that you cannot use Win RE's
major components to repair Vista which would be Startup Repair, System
Restore *from Win RE which I find superior to SR using the Volume Shadow
system adapted from the Windows Server environment, restoring the boot
sector using the bootsect /nt52 SYS from the Windows Recovery Environment
discussed in the MSKB directly below

How to troubleshoot scenarios in which the rollback phase was unsuccessful
after you upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927523/en-us

and something that has not been mentioned that I can tell to date on this
group or much in the TBT groups:

How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to
troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392/en-us

Startup Repair can also be used when there is not a problem booting into
Windows Vista and when it works which is not all the time (you should repeat
2-3 times if it does not) fix major broken Vista components:

A Stop error occurs, or the computer stops responding when you try to start
Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925810/en-us

So suppose all these repair modalities used correctly and I emphasize there
are a minority of times when Startup Repair may need to be tried, i.e.
repeated 2-3 times until it works, and you have this scnario mentioned by
George Ou on his ZDNET blog this morning (January 29, 2007) in my time zone:

(I would think you could avoid a lot of "Geek Squad" money by the way by
simply searching this group, the setup group and the other MSFT Vista public
groups using View>Find):

From George Ou and a point that has not been raised that I can tell on this
group or the setup group and certainly has not been touched by Jill Zoeller
or Darrel Gorter who occasionally particpate here from MSFT:

From:
January 29th, 2007
Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

by George Ou

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589


"These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been stamped
out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or 2000
was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any reason
will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after a hard
drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard drive
and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install Vista
on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If you're
paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra hour of
labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows XP. Will
Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for everyone?"


MSFT's current MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:

How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us

MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...radepaths.mspx

Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:

Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2082979,00.asp

What's the real story with Vista upgrades?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189

Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589

__________________________________________

MSFT's curreng MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:

How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us

MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...radepaths.mspx

Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:

Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2082979,00.asp

What's the real story with Vista upgrades?

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189

Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589

What's the Real Story With Vista Upgrades?
Ed Bott
January 29th, 2007

"A story by Ken Fisher on Ars Technica this morning is raising alarm flags.
Fisher points to Microsoft Knowledge Base article 930985, which documents a
change in the setup process for upgrade versions of Windows Vista. The
article's title reads: "You cannot use an upgrade key to perform a clean
installation of Windows Vista."

Fisher concludes, "[Once] again, Microsoft appears to have made licensing
decisions without considering how people actually use their products."

George Ou calls it "another one of those 'what were you thinking' moments
for Microsoft management."

I'm not certain what's actually going on here. The KB article itself is
ambiguous. In Microsoft's world, a clean install requires booting from
optical media (CD or DVD). Here's Microsoft's definition of a clean
installation, as contained in an earlier KB article:

A clean installation refers to removing all data from your hard disk by
repartitioning and reformatting your hard disk and reinstalling the
operating system and programs to an empty (clean) hard disk.

So how is the upgrade media going to work? It sounds like it won't be
bootable, which means that you won't be able to start your PC using the
upgrade DVD. Will it include the disk management tools included on a retail
Vista DVD? Will you be able to install Vista without a product key, as you
can with a retail DVD? Will you be able to install Vista to its own
directory or to an existing disk partition without migrating current
settings - what most people outside Redmond consider a "clean install"?

The answer to all those questions, at this point, is "Nobody knows." At
least, nobody outside of Redmond. So far, the only copies of Windows Vista
that have been distributed to the public and the press have been full retail
copies. I have yet to hear from a single source that has actually seen one
of these upgrade disks and documented the experience. Everything written so
far is just speculation until those disks are in customers' hands tomorrow.
This may turn out to be a headache, as predicted. Or it may turn out to be
much ado about nothing.

Stay tuned."


Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
George Ou
January 29, 2007

Arstechnica is reporting that Windows Vista Upgrade edition will not permit
"clean" installs like all previous versions of Windows Upgrade editions.
Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad?This is another
one of those "what were you thinking" moments for Microsoft management
similar to their bone headed decision to lock the retail version of Vista to
one hardware migration. Microsoft backed out of their ridiculous license
change after Ed Bott sounded the alarm and others picked up on the story.
So Vista Upgrade Edition should really be called Vista "Not Clean" "time
waster" Edition. [Update 4:10AM - A reader clarifies that you can
technically do a clean install by telling Vista to wipe the hard drive
before installing after it confirms a full copy of Windows XP is installed.
This however is still lame because you can't just install Vista on a freshly
formatted hard drive and it will still be a huge time waster.]

In the past, Microsoft has always respected their customer's time and
allowed upgrade versions of Windows to install on a fresh machine so long as
the customer could provide proof of possession of the old software. These
new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been stamped out will
lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or 2000 was
present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any reason
will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after a hard
drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard drive
and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install Vista
on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If you're
paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra hour of
labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows XP. Will
Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for everyone?

Some might just say tough; you don't have to buy Windows Vista Upgrade
Edition if you don't like the terms of the agreement. But the problem is
that there are probably already millions of people who bought in to the
promise of Vista upgrade coupons during this last holiday shopping season
with their new computers or their copy of Windows XP and they weren't told
that the upgrade terms have been changed. The Vista Upgrade coupons were
used to lure people in to buying brand new computers for the holiday 2006
shopping season when many people would have probably opted to wait until
after Vista launches at the end of January had they known about these new
restrictions. Now these people are going to be in for a big shock after
they wipe their computers and find out that their copy of Vista won't
install without XP on the computer.

So why is Microsoft making a bone headed decision like this? One
possibility is that Microsoft is afraid that people might try to keep
running XP or Media Center on their existing machines and use Vista on a new
computer. This would mean that Microsoft would be giving away two copies of
Windows for the price of one. While I realize that a company has to make
money off of a commercial Operating System, surely Microsoft could have
worked out a better arrangement. Why not ask people to turn in their old
Windows XP serial number when they get their Full Vista DVD and then
blacklist that serial number from Windows Genuine Advantage. This would be
a fair free trade-up from Windows XP to Windows Vista and no one should
expect to get two versions of Windows for the price of one.

But it could be too late for Microsoft to avoid a backlash because Vista is
launching at the end of today and all those copies of Vista Upgrade with no
way to do clean installs have probably already been manufactured. If
Microsoft wants to set things right for people who want to do clean installs
of Windows Vista especially those who bought in to the promise of Vista
coupons during this last holiday season, Microsoft should allow these people
to opt for a trade-up to the full version of Vista where the old XP serial
number is blacklisted on WGA 30 days after the Vista is shipped to them.
That would seem to be the least they can do.



Sould Microsoft allow a full trade-up to Vista?"

From Ken Fischer (Ars Technica)
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070128-8717.html

Vista "upgrade" drops compliance checking, requires old OS to install
1/28/2007 3:11:14 PM, by Ken Fisher

"Microsoft's quest to closely control the way Windows Vista can be used on
PCs has taken a turn for the worse as new information indicates that the
company is breaking tradition when it comes to Windows Vista upgrades. With
Windows Vista, users will not be able to use upgrade keys to initiate
completely new installations. It is a change that will affect few users, but
enthusiasts will certainly be amongst those pinched.

Upgrade versions of Windows Vista Home Basic, Premium, and Starter Edition
will not install on any PC unless Windows XP or Windows 2000 is already on
the machine in question. In years previous, upgrade versions of Windows
could be installed on any PC. If a PC did not have an older version of
Windows installed, users could provide an older installation CD of Windows
for verification. After dropping a qualifying CD in the CD-ROM drive, the
installation routine would verify the disc and you'd be on your way. With
this approach, one could use an "upgrade" copy of Windows to lay a new
Windows install on a computer.

One again, Microsoft appears to have made licensing decisions without
considering how people actually use their products. Last fall the company
trotted out changes to its retail licensing that would have punished users
who frequently upgrade their PC hardware had the company not relented. Now
Microsoft seeks to complicate our ability to start a crisp, new install with
an upgrade version. Why?

A 'per device' obsession
Microsoft has been adamant in recent years that Windows is licensed per
device and not per person. One practical ramification of this viewpoint is
that the company typically does not allow users to install one copy of
Windows across multiple machines, even if only one machine is in use at a
time. According to Microsoft, only the full retail license of Windows Vista
can be transferred to new devices (retail pricing here). OEM versions are
ostensibly tied to motherboards, and upgrade versions are now technically
tied to previous installations.

What does all of this mean on a practical level? Users who purchase upgrade
copies of the aforementioned versions of Vista will find that they can only
upgrade PCs that already have Windows installed. KB930985 clearly states:
"you cannot use an upgrade key to perform a clean installation of Windows
Vista." According to Microsoft, this happens because Windows Vista does not
check for upgrade compliance. If you do not have a previous installation of
Windows available, Microsoft recommends that you "purchase a license that
lets you perform a clean installation of Windows Vista."

For its part, Microsoft seems to be confident that the Vista repair process
should be sufficient to solve any problems with the OS, since otherwise the
only option for disaster recovery in the absence of backups would be to wipe
a machine, install XP, and then upgrade to Vista. This will certainly make
disaster recovery a more irritating experience.

Fortunately, the change will not mean that users cannot install Windows
Vista to a new directory. Windows Vista's upgrade process includes the
option of backing up previous installations, and in fact, in some scenarios
a "clean" upgrade is required. "Clean" or not, the requirement that the
previous OS be installed puts a bit of a damper on those of us that like the
do periodic system refreshes.

What does Microsoft hope to gain out of all of this? I can only speculate.
First, the change prevents a dual-license situation with all of the free
Vista upgrade coupons out there. If things worked according to the old
scheme, people with upgrade coupons would essentially get a "free" OS
because they could install the Vista upgrade anywhere, and continue to use
the version of Windows XP that came with their computer. Did Microsoft fear
that this would happen quite a bit? It seems like an unlikely scenario.

Second, and likely more important to Microsoft, this should make it
difficult for users to use a single upgrade copy of Vista throughout the
years. I'm quite sure many of you in readerland have done exactly that in
years past: build a computer, use your Windows upgrade disc. Build a new box
three years later, use that same upgrade disc. Microsoft's preference would
be for users in such situations to either purchase OEM copies for each new
machine, or pay for a full version of the retail product."


Good luck,

CH

"Barry McWilliams" <BarryMcWilliams@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:FCEE7759-3D76-456D-9689-E405A1BD227F@microsoft.com...
>I plan on purchasing the upgrade version of Vista Ultimate retail edition,
> but have a couple questions.
>
> Is it possible to transfer my Vista license in this scenario? I know that
> the previous license is wrapped into Vista, so if my hardware fails, or if
> I
> upgrade what will happen since I have to be in the XP environment, yet it
> can't be activated?
>
> The whole reason I want the retail version is that I can transfer my copy
> down the road whether by recreational choice, or not.
>
> If this is not possible why not call the retail upgrades, retail OEM.
>
> Hope someone can bring some clarity as I am purchasing it tomorrow, want
> Ultimate and can't afford the full unless someone wants to donate $200+
> Canadian.
>
> Thank You

"Barry McWilliams" <BarryMcWilliams@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
in message news:FCEE7759-3D76-456D-9689-E405A1BD227F@microsoft.com...
>I plan on purchasing the upgrade version of Vista Ultimate retail
>edition,
> but have a couple questions.
>
> Is it possible to transfer my Vista license in this scenario?

No - your OEM license is not transferable - so unless you had another
qualifying licensing on the target machine you could not reuse your
upgrade in the event of the OEM system death.

>I know that
> the previous license is wrapped into Vista, so if my hardware fails,
> or if I
> upgrade what will happen since I have to be in the XP environment,
> yet it
> can't be activated?
>

Upgrading hardware does not invalidate your OEM license so your use of
the upgrade license is still valid

> The whole reason I want the retail version is that I can transfer my
> copy
> down the road whether by recreational choice, or not.
>

The you need to buy a full copy or you will always have to have a
qualifying XP on the target machine "down the road".

> If this is not possible why not call the retail upgrades, retail
> OEM.
>

The upgrade is valid against a variety of products . Your issue is
that the OEM license you have is not transferable.
Read your OEM XP EULA for details of the rights of transfer.

> Hope someone can bring some clarity as I am purchasing it tomorrow,
> want
> Ultimate and can't afford the full unless someone wants to donate
> $200+
> Canadian.
>
> Thank You


--

Mike Brannigan

"Chad Harris" wrote:

> What will happen is that you will have to reload your XP and activate it.
> You can make sure you do a full backup. I don't know what 3rd party imaging
> will do for you.
>
> If I were you, I'd hold off and buy a full edition and I'm going to tell you
> why. You will not have access to the major tools that Vista provides to
> repair it and I'm detailing this below for you.
>
>
> Let me give you a compelling reason to get a full DVD:
>
> If you do not have a full DVD, or you have an upgrade DVD you are *NOT
> going to have the major tools you'll need to fix Vista. You of course will
> have System Restore via its new Volume Shadow Copy format adapted from the
> Windows Server environment.
>
> Anytime I ever spend $1000-$4000 for a new PC, (I order from an online site
> because I like to choose my features and many stores don't have that choice)
> I insist on them giving me the Windows OS DVD of the moment, and I have
> heard that one is Vista. So either insist on it or buy the full DVD is my
> advice.
>
> You of course may have Backup depending on your edition. I applaud them for
> doing this, but like a lot of users here, I prefer using an imaging system
> like GHOST or ACRONIS or another type that works best for the user.
>
> I am going to include some recent information and questions that are
> additional posed on upgrade DVDs this morning and one of the guys who posed
> the question writes one of the most comprehensive books on Vista that is
> hitting stores this week (Ed Bott author of Windows Vista Inside Out MSFT
> Press). I also point out below the major repair modalities in Vista that
> you will not access unless you have a full Vista version DVD. You won't be
> accessing them via that upgrade DVD.
>
> The Upgrade scenario that MSFT has posed failed to take into consideration
> what happens if the person has to format and cannot repair and also failed
> to take into consideration that those customers should have full access to
> the full panoply of Vista repair tools.
>
> They do not: Read Below please and you'll become a more informed buyer:
>
> MSFT has blocked your ability to repair Vista in two major ways it turns
> out:
>
> 1) If you do not get a Vista DVD (Dell says you will from them) when you pay
> $1000-2000 for your new Vista preloaded computer today, tonight or in the
> future you cannot access the repair modalities I describe below from Win RE
> on the Vista DVD or the Windows Repair Environment.
>
> 2) If you buy an Upgrade DVD.
>
> See below:
>
> And with all the excellent upgrade posts here, including Colin Barnhorst's I
> haven't seen this little issue raised. Suppose that you cannot use Win RE's
> major components to repair Vista which would be Startup Repair, System
> Restore *from Win RE which I find superior to SR using the Volume Shadow
> system adapted from the Windows Server environment, restoring the boot
> sector using the bootsect /nt52 SYS from the Windows Recovery Environment
> discussed in the MSKB directly below
>
> How to troubleshoot scenarios in which the rollback phase was unsuccessful
> after you upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927523/en-us
>
> and something that has not been mentioned that I can tell to date on this
> group or much in the TBT groups:
>
> How to use the Bootrec.exe tool in the Windows Recovery Environment to
> troubleshoot and repair startup issues in Windows Vista
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392/en-us
>
> Startup Repair can also be used when there is not a problem booting into
> Windows Vista and when it works which is not all the time (you should repeat
> 2-3 times if it does not) fix major broken Vista components:
>
> A Stop error occurs, or the computer stops responding when you try to start
> Windows Vista
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/925810/en-us
>
> So suppose all these repair modalities used correctly and I emphasize there
> are a minority of times when Startup Repair may need to be tried, i.e.
> repeated 2-3 times until it works, and you have this scnario mentioned by
> George Ou on his ZDNET blog this morning (January 29, 2007) in my time zone:
>
> (I would think you could avoid a lot of "Geek Squad" money by the way by
> simply searching this group, the setup group and the other MSFT Vista public
> groups using View>Find):
>
> From George Ou and a point that has not been raised that I can tell on this
> group or the setup group and certainly has not been touched by Jill Zoeller
> or Darrel Gorter who occasionally particpate here from MSFT:
>
> From:
> January 29th, 2007
> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
>
> by George Ou
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589
>
>
> "These new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been stamped
> out will lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or 2000
> was present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any reason
> will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after a hard
> drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard drive
> and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install Vista
> on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If you're
> paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra hour of
> labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows XP. Will
> Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for everyone?"
>
>
> MSFT's current MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:
>
> How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us
>
> MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...radepaths.mspx
>
> Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:
>
> Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista
>
> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2082979,00.asp
>
> What's the real story with Vista upgrades?
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189
>
> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589
>
> __________________________________________
>
> MSFT's curreng MSKB covering Upgrades and leaving much out:
>
> How to install Windows Vista (See upgrade section of this MSKB)
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/918884/en-us
>
> MSFT's Current Upgrade to Vista Page:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...radepaths.mspx
>
> Extreme Tech's article on Vista Upgrades:
>
> Upgrade From Windows XP to Vista
>
> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2082979,00.asp
>
> What's the real story with Vista upgrades?
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=189
>
> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e589
>
> What's the Real Story With Vista Upgrades?
> Ed Bott
> January 29th, 2007
>
> "A story by Ken Fisher on Ars Technica this morning is raising alarm flags.
> Fisher points to Microsoft Knowledge Base article 930985, which documents a
> change in the setup process for upgrade versions of Windows Vista. The
> article's title reads: "You cannot use an upgrade key to perform a clean
> installation of Windows Vista."
>
> Fisher concludes, "[Once] again, Microsoft appears to have made licensing
> decisions without considering how people actually use their products."
>
> George Ou calls it "another one of those 'what were you thinking' moments
> for Microsoft management."
>
> I'm not certain what's actually going on here. The KB article itself is
> ambiguous. In Microsoft's world, a clean install requires booting from
> optical media (CD or DVD). Here's Microsoft's definition of a clean
> installation, as contained in an earlier KB article:
>
> A clean installation refers to removing all data from your hard disk by
> repartitioning and reformatting your hard disk and reinstalling the
> operating system and programs to an empty (clean) hard disk.
>
> So how is the upgrade media going to work? It sounds like it won't be
> bootable, which means that you won't be able to start your PC using the
> upgrade DVD. Will it include the disk management tools included on a retail
> Vista DVD? Will you be able to install Vista without a product key, as you
> can with a retail DVD? Will you be able to install Vista to its own
> directory or to an existing disk partition without migrating current
> settings - what most people outside Redmond consider a "clean install"?
>
> The answer to all those questions, at this point, is "Nobody knows." At
> least, nobody outside of Redmond. So far, the only copies of Windows Vista
> that have been distributed to the public and the press have been full retail
> copies. I have yet to hear from a single source that has actually seen one
> of these upgrade disks and documented the experience. Everything written so
> far is just speculation until those disks are in customers' hands tomorrow.
> This may turn out to be a headache, as predicted. Or it may turn out to be
> much ado about nothing.
>
> Stay tuned."
>
>
> Vista Upgrade Edition is lame by design
> George Ou
> January 29, 2007
>
> Arstechnica is reporting that Windows Vista Upgrade edition will not permit
> "clean" installs like all previous versions of Windows Upgrade editions.
> Will Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad?This is another
> one of those "what were you thinking" moments for Microsoft management
> similar to their bone headed decision to lock the retail version of Vista to
> one hardware migration. Microsoft backed out of their ridiculous license
> change after Ed Bott sounded the alarm and others picked up on the story.
> So Vista Upgrade Edition should really be called Vista "Not Clean" "time
> waster" Edition. [Update 4:10AM - A reader clarifies that you can
> technically do a clean install by telling Vista to wipe the hard drive
> before installing after it confirms a full copy of Windows XP is installed.
> This however is still lame because you can't just install Vista on a freshly
> formatted hard drive and it will still be a huge time waster.]
>
> In the past, Microsoft has always respected their customer's time and
> allowed upgrade versions of Windows to install on a fresh machine so long as
> the customer could provide proof of possession of the old software. These
> new Vista Upgrade DVDs which I'm assuming have already been stamped out will
> lack the ability to install on a system unless Windows XP or 2000 was
> present. This means anyone looking to do a fresh install for any reason
> will not be able to. Someone who is doing disaster recovery after a hard
> drive failure or a virus infection won't be able to wipe their hard drive
> and install Vista, they'll have to install XP first and then install Vista
> on top of XP. That could easily mean nearly an hour wasted. If you're
> paying someone to rebuild your computer, this will mean an extra hour of
> labor that will be billed to you for the installation of Windows XP. Will
> Microsoft pick up the extra hour tab from Geek Squad for everyone?
>
> Some might just say tough; you don't have to buy Windows Vista Upgrade
> Edition if you don't like the terms of the agreement. But the problem is
> that there are probably already millions of people who bought in to the
> promise of Vista upgrade coupons during this last holiday shopping season
> with their new computers or their copy of Windows XP and they weren't told
> that the upgrade terms have been changed. The Vista Upgrade coupons were
> used to lure people in to buying brand new computers for the holiday 2006
> shopping season when many people would have probably opted to wait until
> after Vista launches at the end of January had they known about these new
> restrictions. Now these people are going to be in for a big shock after
> they wipe their computers and find out that their copy of Vista won't
> install without XP on the computer.
>
> So why is Microsoft making a bone headed decision like this? One
> possibility is that Microsoft is afraid that people might try to keep
> running XP or Media Center on their existing machines and use Vista on a new
> computer. This would mean that Microsoft would be giving away two copies of
> Windows for the price of one. While I realize that a company has to make
> money off of a commercial Operating System, surely Microsoft could have
> worked out a better arrangement. Why not ask people to turn in their old
> Windows XP serial number when they get their Full Vista DVD and then
> blacklist that serial number from Windows Genuine Advantage. This would be
> a fair free trade-up from Windows XP to Windows Vista and no one should
> expect to get two versions of Windows for the price of one.
>
> But it could be too late for Microsoft to avoid a backlash because Vista is
> launching at the end of today and all those copies of Vista Upgrade with no
> way to do clean installs have probably already been manufactured. If
> Microsoft wants to set things right for people who want to do clean installs
> of Windows Vista especially those who bought in to the promise of Vista
> coupons during this last holiday season, Microsoft should allow these people
> to opt for a trade-up to the full version of Vista where the old XP serial
> number is blacklisted on WGA 30 days after the Vista is shipped to them.
> That would seem to be the least they can do.
>
>
>
> Sould Microsoft allow a full trade-up to Vista?"
>
> From Ken Fischer (Ars Technica)
> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070128-8717.html
>
> Vista "upgrade" drops compliance checking, requires old OS to install
> 1/28/2007 3:11:14 PM, by Ken Fisher
>
> "Microsoft's quest to closely control the way Windows Vista can be used on
> PCs has taken a turn for the worse as new information indicates that the
> company is breaking tradition when it comes to Windows Vista upgrades. With
> Windows Vista, users will not be able to use upgrade keys to initiate
> completely new installations. It is a change that will affect few users, but
> enthusiasts will certainly be amongst those pinched.
>
> Upgrade versions of Windows Vista Home Basic, Premium, and Starter Edition
> will not install on any PC unless Windows XP or Windows 2000 is already on
> the machine in question. In years previous, upgrade versions of Windows
> could be installed on any PC. If a PC did not have an older version of
> Windows installed, users could provide an older installation CD of Windows
> for verification. After dropping a qualifying CD in the CD-ROM drive, the
> installation routine would verify the disc and you'd be on your way. With
> this approach, one could use an "upgrade" copy of Windows to lay a new
> Windows install on a computer.
>
> One again, Microsoft appears to have made licensing decisions without

Mike--

Tell us how people will have access to the full panoply of the major tools
in Win RE to fix Vista I've outlined on other threads. I believe I've
outlined their use and linked to them fully a few times today.

1) With an upgrade DVD
2) Without a full DVD of Vista

Because I contend they won't. And that's unfortunate. Besides Dell, I
haven't seen one OEM named partner offering to ship a Vista DVD, and stores
aren't offerring to give you one either with the purchase of that
$1000-$4000 new dual core pc.

CH

"Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message
news:%23fYQr2%23QHHA.4252@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "Barry McWilliams" <BarryMcWilliams@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:FCEE7759-3D76-456D-9689-E405A1BD227F@microsoft.com...
>>I plan on purchasing the upgrade version of Vista Ultimate retail edition,
>> but have a couple questions.
>>
>> Is it possible to transfer my Vista license in this scenario?
>
> No - your OEM license is not transferable - so unless you had another
> qualifying licensing on the target machine you could not reuse your
> upgrade in the event of the OEM system death.
>
>>I know that
>> the previous license is wrapped into Vista, so if my hardware fails, or
>> if I
>> upgrade what will happen since I have to be in the XP environment, yet it
>> can't be activated?
>>
>
> Upgrading hardware does not invalidate your OEM license so your use of the
> upgrade license is still valid
>
>> The whole reason I want the retail version is that I can transfer my copy
>> down the road whether by recreational choice, or not.
>>
>
> The you need to buy a full copy or you will always have to have a
> qualifying XP on the target machine "down the road".
>
>> If this is not possible why not call the retail upgrades, retail OEM.
>>
>
> The upgrade is valid against a variety of products . Your issue is that
> the OEM license you have is not transferable.
> Read your OEM XP EULA for details of the rights of transfer.
>
>> Hope someone can bring some clarity as I am purchasing it tomorrow, want
>> Ultimate and can't afford the full unless someone wants to donate $200+
>> Canadian.
>>
>> Thank You
>
>
> --
>
> Mike Brannigan
>
>
>

I was asking if the retail Vista Ultimate was transferable, I know XP is not
after the install. Either way the upgrade version is fools paradise and I now
have to shell out another $230, but it will be worth it in the long run.

If I have hardware failure in the future, I would prefer to wipe everything
and start over rather than re-install a now invalid XP license and kick
myself for not creating a ghost image.

I really like Vista, but as far as clarity under the hood, there is
absolutely none. Not only that but the amount of versions is ridiculous and I
now know the upgrade editions are fools paradise.

Thanks for the heads up, and I am glad I asked before going ahead and making
the purchase as I would have had to purchase a new keyboard as well since it
is the cheapest thing to throw.

"Mike Brannigan" wrote:

> "Barry McWilliams" <BarryMcWilliams@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
> in message news:FCEE7759-3D76-456D-9689-E405A1BD227F@microsoft.com...
> >I plan on purchasing the upgrade version of Vista Ultimate retail
> >edition,
> > but have a couple questions.
> >
> > Is it possible to transfer my Vista license in this scenario?
>
> No - your OEM license is not transferable - so unless you had another
> qualifying licensing on the target machine you could not reuse your
> upgrade in the event of the OEM system death.
>
> >I know that
> > the previous license is wrapped into Vista, so if my hardware fails,
> > or if I
> > upgrade what will happen since I have to be in the XP environment,
> > yet it
> > can't be activated?
> >
>
> Upgrading hardware does not invalidate your OEM license so your use of
> the upgrade license is still valid
>
> > The whole reason I want the retail version is that I can transfer my
> > copy
> > down the road whether by recreational choice, or not.
> >
>
> The you need to buy a full copy or you will always have to have a
> qualifying XP on the target machine "down the road".
>
> > If this is not possible why not call the retail upgrades, retail
> > OEM.
> >
>
> The upgrade is valid against a variety of products . Your issue is
> that the OEM license you have is not transferable.
> Read your OEM XP EULA for details of the rights of transfer.
>
> > Hope someone can bring some clarity as I am purchasing it tomorrow,
> > want
> > Ultimate and can't afford the full unless someone wants to donate
> > $200+
> > Canadian.
> >
> > Thank You
>
>
> --
>
> Mike Brannigan
>
>
>
>

"Chad Harris" <fixvista-itneedsit.net> wrote in message
news:%232MDq9%23QHHA.412@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Mike--
>
> Tell us how people will have access to the full panoply of the major
> tools in Win RE to fix Vista I've outlined on other threads. I
> believe I've outlined their use and linked to them fully a few times
> today.
>
> 1) With an upgrade DVD
> 2) Without a full DVD of Vista
>
> Because I contend they won't. And that's unfortunate. Besides Dell,
> I haven't seen one OEM named partner offering to ship a Vista DVD,
> and stores aren't offerring to give you one either with the purchase
> of that $1000-$4000 new dual core pc.
>
> CH
>

For OEMs and thus the store bought PC with an OEM OS installed on to -
they are not required to provide a DVD as since they (the OEM) are
responsible for the provision of support to their OEM pre installed OS
it is "acceptable" for them to choose to offer the purchaser a number
of methods of returning a PC to as shipped - this can include hidden
recovery partitions or methods of creating restore DVDs etc.
Now I fully understand you point that these tools cannot be used to
"repair" a device - I would assume the OEM take on this is that if you
have a problem then you call them instead of trying a Do It Yourself
fix - and they are within there rights to ask you to reset your PC to
as shipped (which will probably also reinstall all factory supplied
software etc) and then you put back any of your own additional
software and recover your data from your backup that you are hopefully
making to get you back to a system that they can then support.
Herein lie some of the issues with OEM media and the fact that your
"support" is at the behest of the OEM to provide a method that suites
them best.

I'll get back to you on the upgrade DVDs.

--

Mike Brannigan

"Chad Harris" <fixvista-itneedsit.net> wrote in message
news:%232MDq9%23QHHA.412@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Mike--
>
> Tell us how people will have access to the full panoply of the major
> tools in Win RE to fix Vista I've outlined on other threads. I
> believe I've outlined their use and linked to them fully a few times
> today.
>
> 1) With an upgrade DVD
> 2) Without a full DVD of Vista
>
> Because I contend they won't. And that's unfortunate. Besides Dell,
> I haven't seen one OEM named partner offering to ship a Vista DVD,
> and stores aren't offerring to give you one either with the purchase
> of that $1000-$4000 new dual core pc.
>
> CH
>
> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> wrote in message
> news:%23fYQr2%23QHHA.4252@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> "Barry McWilliams" <BarryMcWilliams@discussions.microsoft.com>
>> wrote in message
>> news:FCEE7759-3D76-456D-9689-E405A1BD227F@microsoft.com...
>>>I plan on purchasing the upgrade version of Vista Ultimate retail
>>>edition,
>>> but have a couple questions.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to transfer my Vista license in this scenario?
>>
>> No - your OEM license is not transferable - so unless you had
>> another qualifying licensing on the target machine you could not
>> reuse your upgrade in the event of the OEM system death.
>>
>>>I know that
>>> the previous license is wrapped into Vista, so if my hardware
>>> fails, or if I
>>> upgrade what will happen since I have to be in the XP environment,
>>> yet it
>>> can't be activated?
>>>
>>
>> Upgrading hardware does not invalidate your OEM license so your use
>> of the upgrade license is still valid
>>
>>> The whole reason I want the retail version is that I can transfer
>>> my copy
>>> down the road whether by recreational choice, or not.
>>>
>>
>> The you need to buy a full copy or you will always have to have a
>> qualifying XP on the target machine "down the road".
>>
>>> If this is not possible why not call the retail upgrades, retail
>>> OEM.
>>>
>>
>> The upgrade is valid against a variety of products . Your issue is
>> that the OEM license you have is not transferable.
>> Read your OEM XP EULA for details of the rights of transfer.
>>
>>> Hope someone can bring some clarity as I am purchasing it
>>> tomorrow, want
>>> Ultimate and can't afford the full unless someone wants to donate
>>> $200+
>>> Canadian.
>>>
>>> Thank You
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mike Brannigan
>>
>>
>>
>

"Barry McWilliams" <BarryMcWilliams@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
in message news:72AD6D93-1C03-4D24-99DD-D8DE21EC4D77@microsoft.com...
>I was asking if the retail Vista Ultimate was transferable, I know XP
>is not
> after the install. Either way the upgrade version is fools paradise
> and I now
> have to shell out another $230, but it will be worth it in the long
> run.
>

The FULL version is transferable - the UPGRADE depends on what you are
upgrading from - if the underlying license is transferable then the
upgrade can be too. If all you have is an OEM XP then you cannot
transfer that so another PC so you will be left with a useless Vista
upgrade until you get another machine with a qualifying OS.
If you have another qualifying license you could take the upgrade off
one device and upgrade another.

> If I have hardware failure in the future, I would prefer to wipe
> everything
> and start over rather than re-install a now invalid XP license and
> kick
> myself for not creating a ghost image.
>

A hardware failure can be repaired without invalidating your OEM
license - it is only complete transfer that is not allowed.

> I really like Vista, but as far as clarity under the hood, there is
> absolutely none. Not only that but the amount of versions is
> ridiculous and I
> now know the upgrade editions are fools paradise.
>

What "clarity" would you like?
For a regular end user there are 4 versions (Home, Home Premium,
Business, Ultimate)
Corporate licensees can also get Enterprise.
I'm not sure why you see this is a big deal when the XP portfolio is
Home, Professional., TabletPC Edition, Media Center Edition - this
equals 4 too
(obviously there are x64 builds of various products but that is just
processor support and not a feature issue)

> Thanks for the heads up, and I am glad I asked before going ahead
> and making
> the purchase as I would have had to purchase a new keyboard as well
> since it
> is the cheapest thing to throw.

--

Mike Brannigan

"Barry McWilliams" <BarryMcWilliams@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
in message news:72AD6D93-1C03-4D24-99DD-D8DE21EC4D77@microsoft.com...
>I was asking if the retail Vista Ultimate was transferable, I know XP
>is not
> after the install. Either way the upgrade version is fools paradise
> and I now
> have to shell out another $230, but it will be worth it in the long
> run.
>
> If I have hardware failure in the future, I would prefer to wipe
> everything
> and start over rather than re-install a now invalid XP license and
> kick
> myself for not creating a ghost image.
>
> I really like Vista, but as far as clarity under the hood, there is
> absolutely none. Not only that but the amount of versions is
> ridiculous and I
> now know the upgrade editions are fools paradise.
>
> Thanks for the heads up, and I am glad I asked before going ahead
> and making
> the purchase as I would have had to purchase a new keyboard as well
> since it
> is the cheapest thing to throw.
>
> "Mike Brannigan" wrote:
>
>> "Barry McWilliams" <BarryMcWilliams@discussions.microsoft.com>
>> wrote
>> in message
>> news:FCEE7759-3D76-456D-9689-E405A1BD227F@microsoft.com...
>> >I plan on purchasing the upgrade version of Vista Ultimate retail
>> >edition,
>> > but have a couple questions.
>> >
>> > Is it possible to transfer my Vista license in this scenario?
>>
>> No - your OEM license is not transferable - so unless you had
>> another
>> qualifying licensing on the target machine you could not reuse your
>> upgrade in the event of the OEM system death.
>>
>> >I know that
>> > the previous license is wrapped into Vista, so if my hardware
>> > fails,
>> > or if I
>> > upgrade what will happen since I have to be in the XP
>> > environment,
>> > yet it
>> > can't be activated?
>> >
>>
>> Upgrading hardware does not invalidate your OEM license so your use
>> of
>> the upgrade license is still valid
>>
>> > The whole reason I want the retail version is that I can transfer
>> > my
>> > copy
>> > down the road whether by recreational choice, or not.
>> >
>>
>> The you need to buy a full copy or you will always have to have a
>> qualifying XP on the target machine "down the road".
>>
>> > If this is not possible why not call the retail upgrades, retail
>> > OEM.
>> >
>>
>> The upgrade is valid against a variety of products . Your issue is
>> that the OEM license you have is not transferable.
>> Read your OEM XP EULA for details of the rights of transfer.
>>
>> > Hope someone can bring some clarity as I am purchasing it
>> > tomorrow,
>> > want
>> > Ultimate and can't afford the full unless someone wants to donate
>> > $200+
>> > Canadian.
>> >
>> > Thank You
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mike Brannigan
>>
>>
>>
>>

Chad, retail upgrade edition dvd's are identical to retail full edition
dvd's. In fact, there are just retail dvd's. All are bootable. Why does
one have access to the recovery tools with some and not others?

"Chad Harris" <fixvista-itneedsit.net> wrote in message
news:O0f$Xt%23QHHA.4832@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> What will happen is that you will have to reload your XP and activate it.
> You can make sure you do a full backup. I don't know what 3rd party
> imaging will do for you.
>
> If I were you, I'd hold off and buy a full edition and I'm going to tell
> you why. You will not have access to the major tools that Vista provides
> to repair it and I'm detailing this below for you.
>
>

I think all the people posting here needs to read this...

Setup and installation
The Windows Vista DVD disc includes a Windows Imaging (WIM) format of the
code, so whether you buy the Home Basic edition or the Ultimate edition, the
code remains the same; only the product key unlocks your specific set of
features. This means users who opt for the lesser editions can always upgrade
(assuming they have the proper hardware) by downloading some additional code
and securing a new product key online. However, all features--even if you
paid for them--are dependent on specific hardware configurations being
present; if you don't have the proper graphics hardware, for example, you'll
simply never see the Aero graphic effects on that old Dell computer in your
basement.

This statement came from:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Windows_Vist...html?tag=chart


"Barry McWilliams" wrote:

> I plan on purchasing the upgrade version of Vista Ultimate retail edition,
> but have a couple questions.
>
> Is it possible to transfer my Vista license in this scenario? I know that
> the previous license is wrapped into Vista, so if my hardware fails, or if I
> upgrade what will happen since I have to be in the XP environment, yet it
> can't be activated?
>
> The whole reason I want the retail version is that I can transfer my copy
> down the road whether by recreational choice, or not.
>
> If this is not possible why not call the retail upgrades, retail OEM.
>
> Hope someone can bring some clarity as I am purchasing it tomorrow, want
> Ultimate and can't afford the full unless someone wants to donate $200+
> Canadian.
>
> Thank You