Vista - problem creating a dual boot

hi im not sure if this has been answered yet so if so sorry but my problem is
that i bought a laptop with vista installed already but it isnt compatible
with alot of the software i need so i wanted to create a dual boot with XP
but i know you have to install XP first then vista but all i have for vista
is the system recovery disc so if i do it it just reformats the hard drive so
i have no choice but to do vista first if there is any way to do this i could
sure use the help thank you very much

I'd get after the manufacturer and request CDs, probably a $10 charge.

I know Dell does this.

"mark L" <mark L@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:91798AF3-EBEB-4C11-A90A-4FA9F4505B7B@microsoft.com...
> hi im not sure if this has been answered yet so if so sorry but my problem
> is
> that i bought a laptop with vista installed already but it isnt compatible
> with alot of the software i need so i wanted to create a dual boot with XP
> but i know you have to install XP first then vista but all i have for
> vista
> is the system recovery disc so if i do it it just reformats the hard drive
> so
> i have no choice but to do vista first if there is any way to do this i
> could
> sure use the help thank you very much

This is a great example of why I have been posting for months that people
insist on getting a Vista DVD from the OEM seller of the $1000-$4000
pre-loaded new PC. The recovery CDs are a waste of space. They also do
nothing whatsoever to allow you access to the panopoly of repair tools Vista
has in Win RE because you sure can't access it from an OEM recovery disc.
MSFT by the way wants you in this fix, because they force the OEM sellers
into contracts that forbid them providing you a Vista DVD. The way
Brannigan phrases it (borrowing from the double talk that will hang Scooter
Libby this week is that the OEM's "are under no obligation to provide you
with one." What he doesn't tell you is that MSFT forced them into a
contract *not to provide you with one. If you tell an OEM you're not giving
them their huge profit from the sale of the box until they guarantee you a
Vista DVD, many of them will provide it. They want the enormous markup that
comes with your money in their pocket.

I would buy the full version of Vista that is most economically appropriate
for you. That solves your problem of dual booting and installing Vista
first, and it accesses you all the Win Re repair tools.

CH

"mark L" <mark L@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:91798AF3-EBEB-4C11-A90A-4FA9F4505B7B@microsoft.com...
> hi im not sure if this has been answered yet so if so sorry but my problem
> is
> that i bought a laptop with vista installed already but it isnt compatible
> with alot of the software i need so i wanted to create a dual boot with XP
> but i know you have to install XP first then vista but all i have for
> vista
> is the system recovery disc so if i do it it just reformats the hard drive
> so
> i have no choice but to do vista first if there is any way to do this i
> could
> sure use the help thank you very much

Out of 300 OEM named partners, Dell is one of the few that has promised to
ship a Vista DVD on their blog www.direct2dell.com . The reason is that
MSFT forces OEMs into a contract that forbids their providing the OS DVD.
MSFT is greedy and they want you to buy another one after you have paid them
their profit through the OEM named partners for a preinstalled Vista and the
worthless recovery disc/or partition. They scrwed people anorgasmically in
this vein in XP, and they are doing it in Vista and I have yet to see a
Softie from Redmond willing to discuss this either in the TBT groups or
here. I'm still waiting.

CH


"Bill Condie" <billcondie@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:ewh8J1lTHHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> I'd get after the manufacturer and request CDs, probably a $10 charge.
>
> I know Dell does this.
>
> "mark L" <mark L@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:91798AF3-EBEB-4C11-A90A-4FA9F4505B7B@microsoft.com...
>> hi im not sure if this has been answered yet so if so sorry but my
>> problem is
>> that i bought a laptop with vista installed already but it isnt
>> compatible
>> with alot of the software i need so i wanted to create a dual boot with
>> XP
>> but i know you have to install XP first then vista but all i have for
>> vista
>> is the system recovery disc so if i do it it just reformats the hard
>> drive so
>> i have no choice but to do vista first if there is any way to do this i
>> could
>> sure use the help thank you very much
>

<<The reason is that MSFT forces OEMs into a contract that forbids their
providing the OS DVD

I don't buy that, and don't see Dell as being the only one to defy MS.

They all do it to cut costs. I wouldn't buy a system without a CD.

With Dell, it's an option online. Once I forgot, and they shipped if free
when I called.

And first thing I do is delete that useless Restore partition, followed by a
clean install.

Meanwhile, and I didn't get into this on the first response, a dual boot can
be a risky situation. It's all been reported here.


"Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
news:uA9%23C9lTHHA.3980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Out of 300 OEM named partners, Dell is one of the few that has promised to
> ship a Vista DVD on their blog www.direct2dell.com . The reason is that
> MSFT forces OEMs into a contract that forbids their providing the OS DVD.
> MSFT is greedy and they want you to buy another one after you have paid
> them their profit through the OEM named partners for a preinstalled Vista
> and the worthless recovery disc/or partition. They scrwed people
> anorgasmically in this vein in XP, and they are doing it in Vista and I
> have yet to see a Softie from Redmond willing to discuss this either in
> the TBT groups or here. I'm still waiting.
>
> CH
>
>
> "Bill Condie" <billcondie@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ewh8J1lTHHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> I'd get after the manufacturer and request CDs, probably a $10 charge.
>>
>> I know Dell does this.
>>
>> "mark L" <mark L@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:91798AF3-EBEB-4C11-A90A-4FA9F4505B7B@microsoft.com...
>>> hi im not sure if this has been answered yet so if so sorry but my
>>> problem is
>>> that i bought a laptop with vista installed already but it isnt
>>> compatible
>>> with alot of the software i need so i wanted to create a dual boot with
>>> XP
>>> but i know you have to install XP first then vista but all i have for
>>> vista
>>> is the system recovery disc so if i do it it just reformats the hard
>>> drive so
>>> i have no choice but to do vista first if there is any way to do this i
>>> could
>>> sure use the help thank you very much
>>
>

"Chad Harris" wrote:

> This is a great example of why I have been posting for months that people
> insist on getting a Vista DVD from the OEM seller of the $1000-$4000
> pre-loaded new PC. The recovery CDs are a waste of space. They also do
> nothing whatsoever to allow you access to the panopoly of repair tools Vista
> has in Win RE because you sure can't access it from an OEM recovery disc.
> MSFT by the way wants you in this fix, because they force the OEM sellers
> into contracts that forbid them providing you a Vista DVD. The way
> Brannigan phrases it (borrowing from the double talk that will hang Scooter
> Libby this week is that the OEM's "are under no obligation to provide you
> with one." What he doesn't tell you is that MSFT forced them into a
> contract *not to provide you with one. If you tell an OEM you're not giving
> them their huge profit from the sale of the box until they guarantee you a
> Vista DVD, many of them will provide it. They want the enormous markup that
> comes with your money in their pocket.
>
> I would buy the full version of Vista that is most economically appropriate
> for you. That solves your problem of dual booting and installing Vista
> first, and it accesses you all the Win Re repair tools.
>
> CH
>
I just purchased a laptop from HP (presario v6000z) and this is
the first time I have dealt with them. I did tell them on the phone
that I needed to have an actual OS DVD and insisted that I get
the Windows RE tools. They assured me that the disk they supply
contains the genuine Vista OS and that I would get the RE tools
with my order. I am not mistaken about this

From your posts, if they apply to HP, it seems that I was lied to.
If this is the case I confront them about this and take whatever
action I can.

Bill--

Dell would send you an OS CD with XP when and if you asked. Whether you
paid for it or not depended on how you approached it and who you talked
with.

With Vista, they say they have decided to make it standard. See
http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archi...0/17/3132.aspx . If you can
document any of the other 300OEM named partners who are doing this as
default, I'm all ears. Whether you buy it or not, I have had many of them
tell me MSFT pushes them not to ship them in their contract. It's about
profit for MSFT. I wouldn't have a system without a DVD either and never
have.

I haven't had a restore partition since I got my first computer, and deleted
it. My experience, and it's extensive in repairing broken no boot XPs and
Vista is that you're infinitely better off having the DVD in case other
means fail and you need to do a repair install in XP or use Win RE's tools
in Vista (which can be used for fixing Vista when you aren't in a no boot
situation).

I don't want OEM crap that's designed to fool the masses just like the Iraq
"war" has fooled apathetic, indifferent Americans who will sit in a corner
and drool along with their pathetic Congress, while thousands more are
wasted and billions of dollars a month. It's the #1 cause of involuntary
reformats where people feel forced to format, partly because they got into
situations without a DVD or CD (the common preloaded OEM sales situation)
and partly because they are ignorant of Repair Install in XP and a repair
install in Vista.

I've read all the information on dual boots on this group and the setup
groups for over a year and participated in many of them.

If you are willing to read, most Americans are not, then a dual boot can be
a very useful stable environment as to Vista and XP and depending on your
interests a multiboot with other OS's.

There are several ways to overcome the volsnap.sys restore point situation
on a dual boot, as well as the Vista backup situation that Colin Barnhorst
for one has pointed out here.

Given the volume of bugs that MSFT chose not to resolve prior to shipping
Vista that I've watched since its first Beta build, I wouldn't have a box
without XP as a backup OS.

CH


"Bill Condie" <billcondie@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:edMTwCmTHHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> <<The reason is that MSFT forces OEMs into a contract that forbids their
> providing the OS DVD
>
> I don't buy that, and don't see Dell as being the only one to defy MS.
>
> They all do it to cut costs. I wouldn't buy a system without a CD.
>
> With Dell, it's an option online. Once I forgot, and they shipped if free
> when I called.
>
> And first thing I do is delete that useless Restore partition, followed by
> a clean install.
>
> Meanwhile, and I didn't get into this on the first response, a dual boot
> can be a risky situation. It's all been reported here.
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
> news:uA9%23C9lTHHA.3980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Out of 300 OEM named partners, Dell is one of the few that has promised
>> to ship a Vista DVD on their blog www.direct2dell.com . The reason is
>> that MSFT forces OEMs into a contract that forbids their providing the OS
>> DVD. MSFT is greedy and they want you to buy another one after you have
>> paid them their profit through the OEM named partners for a preinstalled
>> Vista and the worthless recovery disc/or partition. They scrwed people
>> anorgasmically in this vein in XP, and they are doing it in Vista and I
>> have yet to see a Softie from Redmond willing to discuss this either in
>> the TBT groups or here. I'm still waiting.
>>
>> CH
>>
>>
>> "Bill Condie" <billcondie@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ewh8J1lTHHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> I'd get after the manufacturer and request CDs, probably a $10 charge.
>>>
>>> I know Dell does this.
>>>
>>> "mark L" <mark L@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:91798AF3-EBEB-4C11-A90A-4FA9F4505B7B@microsoft.com...
>>>> hi im not sure if this has been answered yet so if so sorry but my
>>>> problem is
>>>> that i bought a laptop with vista installed already but it isnt
>>>> compatible
>>>> with alot of the software i need so i wanted to create a dual boot with
>>>> XP
>>>> but i know you have to install XP first then vista but all i have for
>>>> vista
>>>> is the system recovery disc so if i do it it just reformats the hard
>>>> drive so
>>>> i have no choice but to do vista first if there is any way to do this i
>>>> could
>>>> sure use the help thank you very much
>>>
>>
>

The last paragraph should have read a "repair install in XP and Win RE's
tools in Vista."

CH

"Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
news:%230OADvrTHHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Bill--
>
> Dell would send you an OS CD with XP when and if you asked. Whether you
> paid for it or not depended on how you approached it and who you talked
> with.
>
> With Vista, they say they have decided to make it standard. See
> http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archi...0/17/3132.aspx . If you can
> document any of the other 300OEM named partners who are doing this as
> default, I'm all ears. Whether you buy it or not, I have had many of them
> tell me MSFT pushes them not to ship them in their contract. It's about
> profit for MSFT. I wouldn't have a system without a DVD either and never
> have.
>
> I haven't had a restore partition since I got my first computer, and
> deleted it. My experience, and it's extensive in repairing broken no boot
> XPs and Vista is that you're infinitely better off having the DVD in case
> other means fail and you need to do a repair install in XP or use Win RE's
> tools in Vista (which can be used for fixing Vista when you aren't in a no
> boot situation).
>
> I don't want OEM crap that's designed to fool the masses just like the
> Iraq "war" has fooled apathetic, indifferent Americans who will sit in a
> corner and drool along with their pathetic Congress, while thousands more
> are wasted and billions of dollars a month. It's the #1 cause of
> involuntary reformats where people feel forced to format, partly because
> they got into situations without a DVD or CD (the common preloaded OEM
> sales situation) and partly because they are ignorant of Repair Install in
> XP and a repair install in Vista.
>
> I've read all the information on dual boots on this group and the setup
> groups for over a year and participated in many of them.
>
> If you are willing to read, most Americans are not, then a dual boot can
> be a very useful stable environment as to Vista and XP and depending on
> your interests a multiboot with other OS's.
>
> There are several ways to overcome the volsnap.sys restore point situation
> on a dual boot, as well as the Vista backup situation that Colin Barnhorst
> for one has pointed out here.
>
> Given the volume of bugs that MSFT chose not to resolve prior to shipping
> Vista that I've watched since its first Beta build, I wouldn't have a box
> without XP as a backup OS.
>
> CH
>
>
> "Bill Condie" <billcondie@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:edMTwCmTHHA.5012@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> <<The reason is that MSFT forces OEMs into a contract that forbids their
>> providing the OS DVD
>>
>> I don't buy that, and don't see Dell as being the only one to defy MS.
>>
>> They all do it to cut costs. I wouldn't buy a system without a CD.
>>
>> With Dell, it's an option online. Once I forgot, and they shipped if
>> free when I called.
>>
>> And first thing I do is delete that useless Restore partition, followed
>> by a clean install.
>>
>> Meanwhile, and I didn't get into this on the first response, a dual boot
>> can be a risky situation. It's all been reported here.
>>
>>
>> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
>> news:uA9%23C9lTHHA.3980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> Out of 300 OEM named partners, Dell is one of the few that has promised
>>> to ship a Vista DVD on their blog www.direct2dell.com . The reason is
>>> that MSFT forces OEMs into a contract that forbids their providing the
>>> OS DVD. MSFT is greedy and they want you to buy another one after you
>>> have paid them their profit through the OEM named partners for a
>>> preinstalled Vista and the worthless recovery disc/or partition. They
>>> scrwed people anorgasmically in this vein in XP, and they are doing it
>>> in Vista and I have yet to see a Softie from Redmond willing to discuss
>>> this either in the TBT groups or here. I'm still waiting.
>>>
>>> CH
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bill Condie" <billcondie@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ewh8J1lTHHA.3500@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> I'd get after the manufacturer and request CDs, probably a $10 charge.
>>>>
>>>> I know Dell does this.
>>>>
>>>> "mark L" <mark L@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:91798AF3-EBEB-4C11-A90A-4FA9F4505B7B@microsoft.com...
>>>>> hi im not sure if this has been answered yet so if so sorry but my
>>>>> problem is
>>>>> that i bought a laptop with vista installed already but it isnt
>>>>> compatible
>>>>> with alot of the software i need so i wanted to create a dual boot
>>>>> with XP
>>>>> but i know you have to install XP first then vista but all i have for
>>>>> vista
>>>>> is the system recovery disc so if i do it it just reformats the hard
>>>>> drive so
>>>>> i have no choice but to do vista first if there is any way to do this
>>>>> i could
>>>>> sure use the help thank you very much
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

n6xxxx--

I really appreciate your heads up prescient approach. I don't doubt HP has
the ability to send you an OS DVD and should. It sounds like you haven't
received your computer shipment yet. When you do, please let me know that
you got the Vista DVD (I am very interested in how many OEM pc sellers are
doing this--and don't stop pushing them to make good on their promise to
you.

During XP, it was standard for HP to send so called non-destructive recovery
disks, that were not very helpful to most people I worked with. On one MSFT
chat we had a regular who was terribly helpful and was a senior engineer
with HP for many years. He was in total agreement with me as to the value
of these recovery discs and partitions versus an OS DVD despite his
company's default policy back then. He and I spent many hours trying to
help people repair their no boot XPs.

I've had very good luck with HP hardware of all kinds, and gone to their
large meeting before, and think a lot of their company. I just want people
to have that OS DVD in Vista and CD in XP so that they have access to the
best repair tools MSFT offers.

If you have received the order and disk from HP, pop in the disc and right
click start>explore and see what's on the disk. Or pop in the disc and see
if it goes into Vista setup and the screen just after the language choice
has the Recovery option in the lower right hand corner:

Screenshot: System Recovery Options (Lower Left Link)
http://blogs.itecn.net/photos/liuhui...4/500x375.aspx

Screenshot: (Click first option "Startup Repair"
http://www.leedesmond.com/images/img...SysRecOpt2.bmp

How To Run Startup Repair In Vista Ultimate (Multiple Screenshots)
http://www.windowsvista.windowsreins...rstartup/index.

Good luck and thanks for the info,

CH


"n6xxxx" <n6xxxx@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B4124B06-D49E-4D50-A7A4-57D098BB7033@microsoft.com...
>
>
> "Chad Harris" wrote:
>
>> This is a great example of why I have been posting for months that people
>> insist on getting a Vista DVD from the OEM seller of the $1000-$4000
>> pre-loaded new PC. The recovery CDs are a waste of space. They also do
>> nothing whatsoever to allow you access to the panopoly of repair tools
>> Vista
>> has in Win RE because you sure can't access it from an OEM recovery disc.
>> MSFT by the way wants you in this fix, because they force the OEM sellers
>> into contracts that forbid them providing you a Vista DVD. The way
>> Brannigan phrases it (borrowing from the double talk that will hang
>> Scooter
>> Libby this week is that the OEM's "are under no obligation to provide you
>> with one." What he doesn't tell you is that MSFT forced them into a
>> contract *not to provide you with one. If you tell an OEM you're not
>> giving
>> them their huge profit from the sale of the box until they guarantee you
>> a
>> Vista DVD, many of them will provide it. They want the enormous markup
>> that
>> comes with your money in their pocket.
>>
>> I would buy the full version of Vista that is most economically
>> appropriate
>> for you. That solves your problem of dual booting and installing Vista
>> first, and it accesses you all the Win Re repair tools.
>>
>> CH
>>
> I just purchased a laptop from HP (presario v6000z) and this is
> the first time I have dealt with them. I did tell them on the phone
> that I needed to have an actual OS DVD and insisted that I get
> the Windows RE tools. They assured me that the disk they supply
> contains the genuine Vista OS and that I would get the RE tools
> with my order. I am not mistaken about this
>
> From your posts, if they apply to HP, it seems that I was lied to.
> If this is the case I confront them about this and take whatever
> action I can.

"Chad Harris" wrote:

> n6xxxx--
>
> I really appreciate your heads up prescient approach. I don't doubt HP has
> the ability to send you an OS DVD and should. It sounds like you haven't
> received your computer shipment yet. When you do, please let me know that
> you got the Vista DVD (I am very interested in how many OEM pc sellers are
> doing this--and don't stop pushing them to make good on their promise to
> you.
>
> During XP, it was standard for HP to send so called non-destructive recovery
> disks, that were not very helpful to most people I worked with. On one MSFT
> chat we had a regular who was terribly helpful and was a senior engineer
> with HP for many years. He was in total agreement with me as to the value
> of these recovery discs and partitions versus an OS DVD despite his
> company's default policy back then. He and I spent many hours trying to
> help people repair their no boot XPs.
>
> I've had very good luck with HP hardware of all kinds, and gone to their
> large meeting before, and think a lot of their company. I just want people
> to have that OS DVD in Vista and CD in XP so that they have access to the
> best repair tools MSFT offers.
>
> If you have received the order and disk from HP, pop in the disc and right
> click start>explore and see what's on the disk. Or pop in the disc and see
> if it goes into Vista setup and the screen just after the language choice
> has the Recovery option in the lower right hand corner:
>
> Screenshot: System Recovery Options (Lower Left Link)
> http://blogs.itecn.net/photos/liuhui...4/500x375.aspx
>
> Screenshot: (Click first option "Startup Repair"
> http://www.leedesmond.com/images/img...SysRecOpt2.bmp
>
> How To Run Startup Repair In Vista Ultimate (Multiple Screenshots)
> http://www.windowsvista.windowsreins...rstartup/index.
>
> Good luck and thanks for the info,
>
> CH
>
Unfortunately, at closer inspection the disk that I am going to receive
with the order is only a recovery disk that restores the laptop to it's
"purchased state". (The description of the disk, if not read carefully,
can be construed as stating that it comes with the genuine Windows
Vista OS)
This is my fault for only taking the word of a customer service person
rather than looking more closely at the disk description.
When I addressed customer service about their previous claim that I
would receive WinRE tools, they told me I have to speak to technical
support (which I cannot do because I do not have the product serial
number )