Vista - Microsoft hits another foul ball. The torture continues

NEVER has a version of Windows been more fu..ed up and riddled with
stupid bugs at release.

History:

I do a lot of video editing which ends up with me burning custom DVD's
that usually have a fairly eloborate Menu System with lots of bells
and whistles. For the DVD Authoring I use Sony's DVD Architect. Quite
capable. While it does a very nice job of creating the actual menu
structure, building chapters, etc., at times it seems to cause a write
error when burning the DVD. To overcome this I was using the watered
down version of Power Producer that came with my LG DVD burner. No
more coasters.

This application installs with some other tools including a watered
down version of Nero. They aren't compatable with Vista according to
the Update advisor. Ok, no big deal. it was freeware. So I've been
sampling the newer version of Power Producer. It hung up twice already
in Vista, so time to look for a replacement. Fry's had Roxio's 9 on
sale so I picked up a copy today. Before trying to install it I looked
in their forums. Good thing..

MicroCrap screws up again... Starting on January 30th they via
automatic Windows Update sent out a compatibility update. KB #929427

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=929427

This in itself is funny. Look at all the common software Vista breaks,
like Photoshop or doesn't run well with unless this patch is
installed. I have 4 of the applications listed in the above link.

Now it gets nasty...

There is the usual Vista compatible sticker on the ECD 9 suite box. I
made SURE of that when I picked it up just today. But guess what, if
you let Windows automatically update your system via the Internet it
installed the patch described in KB #92947. That susposedly fixes
other software you might have that could break, but now having that
patch breaks Roxio Easy CD DVD Suite.

Now read what some users of Roxio ran into:

http://forums.support.roxio.com/lofi...hp/t17057.html

Yep, if you have the patch installed to cure other issues caused by
Vista with other software, you may very well get a BSOD if you install
ECD 9.

So again MicroCrap fu..s up big time.

This space reserved for the usual MicroCrap apologists to spit out
their usual BS. =====>

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:4l2nt2dgvapv4o0kuuuvnac4599q9nnl5n@4ax.com...
> NEVER has a version of Windows been more fu..ed up and riddled with
> stupid bugs at release.
>
> History:
>
> I do a lot of video editing which ends up with me burning custom DVD's
> that usually have a fairly eloborate Menu System with lots of bells
> and whistles. For the DVD Authoring I use Sony's DVD Architect. Quite
> capable. While it does a very nice job of creating the actual menu
> structure, building chapters, etc., at times it seems to cause a write
> error when burning the DVD. To overcome this I was using the watered
> down version of Power Producer that came with my LG DVD burner. No
> more coasters.
>
> This application installs with some other tools including a watered
> down version of Nero. They aren't compatable with Vista according to
> the Update advisor. Ok, no big deal. it was freeware. So I've been
> sampling the newer version of Power Producer. It hung up twice already
> in Vista, so time to look for a replacement. Fry's had Roxio's 9 on
> sale so I picked up a copy today. Before trying to install it I looked
> in their forums. Good thing..
>
> MicroCrap screws up again... Starting on January 30th they via
> automatic Windows Update sent out a compatibility update. KB #929427
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=929427
>
> This in itself is funny. Look at all the common software Vista breaks,
> like Photoshop or doesn't run well with unless this patch is
> installed. I have 4 of the applications listed in the above link.
>
> Now it gets nasty...
>
> There is the usual Vista compatible sticker on the ECD 9 suite box. I
> made SURE of that when I picked it up just today. But guess what, if
> you let Windows automatically update your system via the Internet it
> installed the patch described in KB #92947. That susposedly fixes
> other software you might have that could break, but now having that
> patch breaks Roxio Easy CD DVD Suite.
>
> Now read what some users of Roxio ran into:
>
> http://forums.support.roxio.com/lofi...hp/t17057.html
>
> Yep, if you have the patch installed to cure other issues caused by
> Vista with other software, you may very well get a BSOD if you install
> ECD 9.
>
> So again MicroCrap fu..s up big time.
>
> This space reserved for the usual MicroCrap apologists to spit out
> their usual BS. =====>
>



For grins read through some of the other threads regarding the DLA driver
problem and enjoy the Roxio Administrator "closing threads" because the
issue has been "discussed to death." Discussed to death, meaning a few
posts, and no resolution. Nice touch; see something critical and close the
thread. Great customer support for Roxio/Vista victims. Meanwhile there
seems to be a continuing debate about that day 0 patch from MS... and
removing it doesn't seem to help. What helped my machine back to sanity was
to remove Easy Whatever 9 completely. Not too happy about that, need to
make some CD's and DVD's. It's now 2/20, and I wonder how long this garbage
is going to continue? Then again, I also wonder how long it takes HP, a
huge manufacturer (somewhere in the world, anyway) to write printer
drivers... or Nvidia to write good video drivers... at least Nvidia shows
the intent to do so by their frequent releases as they work toward the goal.

I had to delete an image of XP as I was getting short of HDD space and
regret that big-time. Last time I reinstalled XP (with Office as well)
there were well over 150 patches to download and install. That's the one
great thing about Vista, there are only a few (so far).

Bill Halvorsen

As for the apologists and cheerleaders, I can predict most of the responses
at this point:

"it's a brand new OS, give it time, blah, blah, blah"

"It is not up to Microsoft to write drivers, blah, blah, blah"

Whatever. Vista has been in development for ... I don't know, a while, yes?
Were the huge megacorporations kept totally in the dark up until Vista hit
the stores about driver requirements?

Two things....

1) Most of the non-MS software updates and patches on the MS update site
come from the vendor. The vendor "asks" MS to distribute them. IOW, the
vendor submits these to MS for inclusion in its update effort.

2) Considering the importance of your machine, why in the heck did you
upgrade before checking all this out?

-Frank

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:4l2nt2dgvapv4o0kuuuvnac4599q9nnl5n@4ax.com...
> NEVER has a version of Windows been more fu..ed up and riddled with
> stupid bugs at release.
>
> History:
>
> I do a lot of video editing which ends up with me burning custom DVD's
> that usually have a fairly eloborate Menu System with lots of bells
> and whistles. For the DVD Authoring I use Sony's DVD Architect. Quite
> capable. While it does a very nice job of creating the actual menu
> structure, building chapters, etc., at times it seems to cause a write
> error when burning the DVD. To overcome this I was using the watered
> down version of Power Producer that came with my LG DVD burner. No
> more coasters.
>
> This application installs with some other tools including a watered
> down version of Nero. They aren't compatable with Vista according to
> the Update advisor. Ok, no big deal. it was freeware. So I've been
> sampling the newer version of Power Producer. It hung up twice already
> in Vista, so time to look for a replacement. Fry's had Roxio's 9 on
> sale so I picked up a copy today. Before trying to install it I looked
> in their forums. Good thing..
>
> MicroCrap screws up again... Starting on January 30th they via
> automatic Windows Update sent out a compatibility update. KB #929427
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=929427
>
> This in itself is funny. Look at all the common software Vista breaks,
> like Photoshop or doesn't run well with unless this patch is
> installed. I have 4 of the applications listed in the above link.
>
> Now it gets nasty...
>
> There is the usual Vista compatible sticker on the ECD 9 suite box. I
> made SURE of that when I picked it up just today. But guess what, if
> you let Windows automatically update your system via the Internet it
> installed the patch described in KB #92947. That susposedly fixes
> other software you might have that could break, but now having that
> patch breaks Roxio Easy CD DVD Suite.
>
> Now read what some users of Roxio ran into:
>
> http://forums.support.roxio.com/lofi...hp/t17057.html
>
> Yep, if you have the patch installed to cure other issues caused by
> Vista with other software, you may very well get a BSOD if you install
> ECD 9.
>
> So again MicroCrap fu..s up big time.
>
> This space reserved for the usual MicroCrap apologists to spit out
> their usual BS. =====>
>

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:36:23 -0700, "Frankster" <Frank@SPAM2TRASH.com>
wrote:

>Two things....
>
>1) Most of the non-MS software updates and patches on the MS update site
>come from the vendor. The vendor "asks" MS to distribute them. IOW, the
>vendor submits these to MS for inclusion in its update effort.
>
>2) Considering the importance of your machine, why in the heck did you
>upgrade before checking all this out?

What part of I DID CHECK IT OUT BEFOREHAND don't you understand?

The system I build from the ground up used nothing but VISTA certified
parts.

The Vista Upgrade Advisor TOLD ME my system would support Vista.

The software in quesiton is Vista ready. Now tell me, WHAT did I do
wrong?

I'm waiting.

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:cnant2toc2vo2lmtl522eij08vfm10lns5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:36:23 -0700, "Frankster" <Frank@SPAM2TRASH.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Two things....
>>
>>1) Most of the non-MS software updates and patches on the MS update site
>>come from the vendor. The vendor "asks" MS to distribute them. IOW, the
>>vendor submits these to MS for inclusion in its update effort.
>>
>>2) Considering the importance of your machine, why in the heck did you
>>upgrade before checking all this out?
>
> What part of I DID CHECK IT OUT BEFOREHAND don't you understand?
>
> The system I build from the ground up used nothing but VISTA certified
> parts.
>
> The Vista Upgrade Advisor TOLD ME my system would support Vista.
>
> The software in quesiton is Vista ready. Now tell me, WHAT did I do
> wrong?
>
> I'm waiting.
>
>

What you did wrong is to rely on someone else's word that the brand new OS
and brand new "Vista ready" apps, that you needed to do your work, would be
satisfactory for your purpose. Using this info to conduct your own tests, on
a non-mission essential machine, is routine. Using this info to build an
essential machine is silly.

I truly am not unsympathetic. But the fact is that a new OS is a big deal.
One should never go this unproven route on any mission essential effort. Or,
if they do, they should have a "plan B" in the wings. Just in case.

-Frank

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:33:00 -0700, "Frankster" <Frank@SPAM2TRASH.com>
wrote:

>
>"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>news:cnant2toc2vo2lmtl522eij08vfm10lns5@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:36:23 -0700, "Frankster" <Frank@SPAM2TRASH.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Two things....
>>>
>>>1) Most of the non-MS software updates and patches on the MS update site
>>>come from the vendor. The vendor "asks" MS to distribute them. IOW, the
>>>vendor submits these to MS for inclusion in its update effort.
>>>
>>>2) Considering the importance of your machine, why in the heck did you
>>>upgrade before checking all this out?
>>
>> What part of I DID CHECK IT OUT BEFOREHAND don't you understand?
>>
>> The system I build from the ground up used nothing but VISTA certified
>> parts.
>>
>> The Vista Upgrade Advisor TOLD ME my system would support Vista.
>>
>> The software in quesiton is Vista ready. Now tell me, WHAT did I do
>> wrong?
>>
>> I'm waiting.
>>
>>
>
>What you did wrong is to rely on someone else's word that the brand new OS
>and brand new "Vista ready" apps, that you needed to do your work, would be
>satisfactory for your purpose. Using this info to conduct your own tests, on
>a non-mission essential machine, is routine. Using this info to build an
>essential machine is silly.
>
>I truly am not unsympathetic. But the fact is that a new OS is a big deal.
>One should never go this unproven route on any mission essential effort. Or,
>if they do, they should have a "plan B" in the wings. Just in case.
>
>-Frank

Sorry Frank, you're wrong again. Before I installed Vista I of course
did a full backup of all my stuff...nearly 1 TB of it, which means I
got about 2 TB of stuff (with backup), so I was risking nothing. I
backup all the time anyway overnight, so nothing new.

As far as testing, nothing beats REAL WORLD. There is little sense in
spending weeks duplicating all the software you have putting it some
test box, if you have a lot and I do, then copying endless test files
to some other box that ISN'T exactly the same just to see if or not
it pans out.

You test real time under real world conditions on the LATEST hardware
you have in the box you actually are going to do the work on.
Otherwise, you run the very real risk of everything working on the
"test" box only to not have it run correctly on the "real" box you
bought Vista for. Of course I got a few boxes still running XP, just
in case. <wink>

I'm sorry, but I'm not sympathetic to people that have no idea what I
use my computer for or what others use their PC for, yet they feel
they can tell them how best to proceed. You rember the old saying, you
got to walk in somebody else's shoes before you judge.

> As far as testing, nothing beats REAL WORLD. .....

lets see I tried to stuff 17 people in the back of my Volkswagen
you wouldn't believe how slow it is. It hardly moves.

I mean come on ...

> I'm sorry, but I'm not sympathetic to people that have no idea what I ...

With that attitude ... No one is sympathetic with your tantrum.

Sounds like you're issues are with software you WANT to run, whether or
not any of it has been updated TO run.

A few minor corrections
1. Not most, All non Microsoft updates.
2. The venders pay to have them certified and distributed by Microsoft.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Frankster" <Frank@SPAM2TRASH.com> wrote in message
news:5u2dnYRk34SEP0bYnZ2dnUVZ_ternZ2d@giganews.com...
> Two things....
>
> 1) Most of the non-MS software updates and patches on the MS update site
> come from the vendor. The vendor "asks" MS to distribute them. IOW, the
> vendor submits these to MS for inclusion in its update effort.
>
> 2) Considering the importance of your machine, why in the heck did you
> upgrade before checking all this out?
>
> -Frank
>
> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
> news:4l2nt2dgvapv4o0kuuuvnac4599q9nnl5n@4ax.com...
>> NEVER has a version of Windows been more fu..ed up and riddled with
>> stupid bugs at release.
>>
>> History:
>>
>> I do a lot of video editing which ends up with me burning custom DVD's
>> that usually have a fairly eloborate Menu System with lots of bells
>> and whistles. For the DVD Authoring I use Sony's DVD Architect. Quite
>> capable. While it does a very nice job of creating the actual menu
>> structure, building chapters, etc., at times it seems to cause a write
>> error when burning the DVD. To overcome this I was using the watered
>> down version of Power Producer that came with my LG DVD burner. No
>> more coasters.
>>
>> This application installs with some other tools including a watered
>> down version of Nero. They aren't compatable with Vista according to
>> the Update advisor. Ok, no big deal. it was freeware. So I've been
>> sampling the newer version of Power Producer. It hung up twice already
>> in Vista, so time to look for a replacement. Fry's had Roxio's 9 on
>> sale so I picked up a copy today. Before trying to install it I looked
>> in their forums. Good thing..
>>
>> MicroCrap screws up again... Starting on January 30th they via
>> automatic Windows Update sent out a compatibility update. KB #929427
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=929427
>>
>> This in itself is funny. Look at all the common software Vista breaks,
>> like Photoshop or doesn't run well with unless this patch is
>> installed. I have 4 of the applications listed in the above link.
>>
>> Now it gets nasty...
>>
>> There is the usual Vista compatible sticker on the ECD 9 suite box. I
>> made SURE of that when I picked it up just today. But guess what, if
>> you let Windows automatically update your system via the Internet it
>> installed the patch described in KB #92947. That susposedly fixes
>> other software you might have that could break, but now having that
>> patch breaks Roxio Easy CD DVD Suite.
>>
>> Now read what some users of Roxio ran into:
>>
>> http://forums.support.roxio.com/lofi...hp/t17057.html
>>
>> Yep, if you have the patch installed to cure other issues caused by
>> Vista with other software, you may very well get a BSOD if you install
>> ECD 9.
>>
>> So again MicroCrap fu..s up big time.
>>
>> This space reserved for the usual MicroCrap apologists to spit out
>> their usual BS. =====>
>>
>

"Rich" <r.d.green@comcast.net> wrote in
news:12tntiqiadg7h7b@news.supernews.com:

>> As far as testing, nothing beats REAL WORLD. .....
>
> lets see I tried to stuff 17 people in the back of my Volkswagen
> you wouldn't believe how slow it is. It hardly moves.
>
> I mean come on ...
>
>> I'm sorry, but I'm not sympathetic to people that have no idea what I
>> ...
>
> With that attitude ... No one is sympathetic with your tantrum.
>
> Sounds like you're issues are with software you WANT to run, whether
> or not any of it has been updated TO run.
>
>

Rich & Frankster:

Sounds to me like Adam Albright's approach was reasonable and researched.

Most consumers will not use a test system and it isn't realistic to expect
it.

Most consumers reasonably believe that a new computer can be used for it's
intended purpose without having to jump through too many hoops.

Your reply to the OP (Albright) was a bit parochial... don't ya think?

Nick Goetz

"Nick Goetz" <nbg@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns98DE3DB15B52A1952moji@207.46.248.16...
> "Rich" <r.d.green@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:12tntiqiadg7h7b@news.supernews.com:
>
>>> As far as testing, nothing beats REAL WORLD. .....
>>
>> lets see I tried to stuff 17 people in the back of my Volkswagen
>> you wouldn't believe how slow it is. It hardly moves.
>>
>> I mean come on ...
>>
>>> I'm sorry, but I'm not sympathetic to people that have no idea what I
>>> ...
>>
>> With that attitude ... No one is sympathetic with your tantrum.
>>
>> Sounds like you're issues are with software you WANT to run, whether
>> or not any of it has been updated TO run.
>>
>>
>
> Rich & Frankster:
>
> Sounds to me like Adam Albright's approach was reasonable and researched.
>
> Most consumers will not use a test system and it isn't realistic to expect
> it.
>
> Most consumers reasonably believe that a new computer can be used for it's
> intended purpose without having to jump through too many hoops.
>
> Your reply to the OP (Albright) was a bit parochial... don't ya think?
>
> Nick Goetz

I'm with Nick on this one.

When I jumped on VISTA, I EXPECTED to encounter differences, quirks and 3rd
party software issues. BUT, I've been through the wringer with all the
Windows versions since 3.11. The *average* Windows user doesn't have the
benefit of this type of experience and REASONABLY EXPECTS a new OS to
PERFORM AS PROMISED.

I think we can all agree that, from the *average* Windows user's
perspective, VISTA is NOT performing as promised - regardless of the
specific M$ and non-M$ causes.