Vista - Dell to Sell Linux PCs

Lang Murphy wrote:
> And no one thinks this has anything to do with Dell pressuring MS for
> better agreements?
>
> LOL.
>
> Lang
>
> "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
> news:igJEh.19181$gl2.4321@fe10.news.easynews.com...
>> "Something in the balance of power between the world's largest PC vendor
>> and the crew in Redmond has shifted, and not in Redmond's favor. You can
>> bet money on that."
>>
>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,12...x/article.html
>
Seems like if dell at one time took pressure for ms, then turnabout is
fair play, no?

--
norm

"Stephan Rose" <kermos@somrek.net> wrote in message news:8OadnXsqCM1J8HnYnZ2dnUVZ8srinZ2d@giganews.com...
> Conor wrote:
>
>> In article <3cudnfhW2Znn7H7YRVnytwA@giganews.com>, Stephan Rose says...
>>> Zim Babwe wrote:
>>>
>>> > OK so in a typical day when they sell 10,000 PC's with Windows and 24
>>> > PC's with Linux, will you be able to notice the shift?
>>>
>>> Would you please post references to where you got those numbers from?
>>>
>>>
>> Widely available stats for the percentage of Linux installs on the
>> desktop.
>
> What does that have to do with how many PCs Dell sells with a given
> operating system?
>
> I still haven't seen a reference...

I' sure Dell considers that proprietary information.
But if you want to see some actual desktop usage stats, go to
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
scroll down to the OS Platform Statistics, and you'll see Linux at 3.3%,
Mac at 3.5%, and the rest (93.2%) consists of various Windows flavors.
I don't think MS has anything to worry about.

Gary VanderMolen

Gary VanderMolen wrote:

> "Stephan Rose" <kermos@somrek.net> wrote in message
> news:8OadnXsqCM1J8HnYnZ2dnUVZ8srinZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Conor wrote:
>>
>>> In article <3cudnfhW2Znn7H7YRVnytwA@giganews.com>, Stephan Rose says...
>>>> Zim Babwe wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > OK so in a typical day when they sell 10,000 PC's with Windows and 24
>>>> > PC's with Linux, will you be able to notice the shift?
>>>>
>>>> Would you please post references to where you got those numbers from?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Widely available stats for the percentage of Linux installs on the
>>> desktop.
>>
>> What does that have to do with how many PCs Dell sells with a given
>> operating system?
>>
>> I still haven't seen a reference...
>
> I' sure Dell considers that proprietary information.

Then at that point in time his numbers are pulled out of his ass and are
bull****.

> But if you want to see some actual desktop usage stats, go to
> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
> scroll down to the OS Platform Statistics, and you'll see Linux at 3.3%,
> Mac at 3.5%, and the rest (93.2%) consists of various Windows flavors.
> I don't think MS has anything to worry about.

So? that is irrelevant. He didn't make a comparison to existing usage
statistics. He made a comparison to Dell sales. Existing usage statics also
include sources other than Dell and sales.

And actually, if Dell does do what they claim it can actually shift that
percentage. Reason why is simple.

Linux at that point in time will be of interest to *anyone* that doesn't
want to shell out 2,000 dollars for a computer high-end enough to run a
reasonable edition of Vista that is not stripped down to the level of
Win2000. Just using W2K because someone mentioned in another thread that
the explorer classic view is W2K's view not XP's view...

Anyone that wants a machine for less than 1,000 bucks just to go check their
e-mail, surf their web, do some word processing, etc. will have interest in
it. Many smaller laptops fall into this category more so than desktops as
they are generally not as good gaming rigs and high-end machines as
Desktops due to the inherent limitations of their size.

That person also does not need Aero (besides, beryl can actually do more) as
it wouldn't even un on that computer (beryl actually might as it runs on
hardware Aero does not). Matter of fact, it wouldn't even be available with
the lowest edition of Vista so it doesn't even matter.

That person does not need DirectX10 as no DX10 Game would actually run on
the system at any playable level.

That person will NOT have any hardware compatibility issues if using linux
because it becomes pre-installed and configured. At the very least not with
the actual computer itself. Peripherals can be a problem in any operating
system.

That person will NOT have any install issues because it is already
installed.

On the bottom line, Vista is not even feasible for that person as that
person doesn't even have any need to buy a machine powerful enough to run
it!

For all those people a computer with Linux on it is a very viable
alternative especially if it comes pre-installed and pre-configured with no
hassle and problems.

Now someone might argue this has come up time and time again with previous
editions of windows. Possibly so. But there is a distinct difference.

Previous editions of windows didn't annihilate the lower end computer users.
I mean XP will run on a 6 year old laptop of ours!! Vista won't. I actually
even have XP running on even older than 6 year desktop machine. Matter of
fact only 2 out of the 9 computers that we have would be able to run Vista
at any reasonable level. All others would either need memory or video
upgrades or would simply not even be possible.

With the exception of that one laptop and desktop, the remaining 7 computers
are all bought or built within the last 24 months.

Vista's high requirements so severely put the low-end users at a
disadvantage that they are going not just going to want an alternative,
they are going to need one.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:19:36 +0000, Conor wrote:
>
>>
> It'll last about a month until the Dell forums get filled with ****loads
> of rants from disgruntled users who couldn't use X hardware or Y
> software.

Conventional wisdom says you're right. But this time might be
different. Linux has gotten a whole lot better over the past couple of
years, whereas Windows has mainly gotten a lot bigger and more expensive.

Charlie

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:25:41 +0100, Alias wrote:

> Conor wrote:
>> In article <igJEh.19181$gl2.4321@fe10.news.easynews.com>, Charlie
>> Wilkes says...
>>> "Something in the balance of power between the world's largest PC
>>> vendor and the crew in Redmond has shifted, and not in Redmond's
>>> favor. You can bet money on that."
>>>
>> Wrong. They said the same in 2000. Nothing happened.
>>
> Linux has changed a tad since 2000. I, for one, never dreamed I would
> even consider Linux until MS did me the favor of accusing me of being a
> thief until I prove otherwise THREE times with XP. That motivated me to
> try Ubuntu and I was pleasantly surprised on how user friendly it is and
> how I can get support without being sneered at by some MVP who is high
> on self importance.
>
> Alias

I have had the same experience with Ubuntu... it's easy to install and
use, it is fast and stable, and the peer-to-peer support model has
provided all the help I need. It's vastly different from the experience
I had with Linux a few years ago, when it was hard to configure and
hardware support was sketchy at best.

Charlie

Alias wrote:

> Linux has changed a tad since 2000. I, for one, never dreamed I would
> even consider Linux until MS did me the favor of accusing me of being
> a thief until I prove otherwise THREE times with XP. That motivated
> me to try Ubuntu and I was pleasantly surprised on how user friendly
> it is and how I can get support without being sneered at by some MVP
> who is high on self importance.

You can get sneered at by plenty of "Linux Geeks" if you want to look
around, so I don't see the benefit there myself.

As for the rest of it, I hope Dell go ahead and I hope others join them. I
like choice, even if the choice being pushed is not one I would make myself.
If nothing else, I can buy one of these Linux machines on the cheap, flatten
it and put a fresh install of whatever I want on there without the crudware
dell typically cram onto computers, without feeling like I wasted the cost
of an OEM licence.

Gary VanderMolen wrote:
> "Stephan Rose" <kermos@somrek.net> wrote in message
> news:8OadnXsqCM1J8HnYnZ2dnUVZ8srinZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Conor wrote:
>>
>>> In article <3cudnfhW2Znn7H7YRVnytwA@giganews.com>, Stephan Rose says...
>>>> Zim Babwe wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > OK so in a typical day when they sell 10,000 PC's with Windows and 24
>>>> > PC's with Linux, will you be able to notice the shift?
>>>>
>>>> Would you please post references to where you got those numbers from?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Widely available stats for the percentage of Linux installs on the
>>> desktop.
>>
>> What does that have to do with how many PCs Dell sells with a given
>> operating system?
>>
>> I still haven't seen a reference...
>
> I' sure Dell considers that proprietary information.
> But if you want to see some actual desktop usage stats, go to
> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
> scroll down to the OS Platform Statistics, and you'll see Linux at 3.3%,
> Mac at 3.5%, and the rest (93.2%) consists of various Windows flavors.
> I don't think MS has anything to worry about.
>
> Gary VanderMolen

That's what Elvis thought until he got home from Germany. Popularity can
be a fleeting thing.

Alias

Stephan Rose wrote:
> Gary VanderMolen wrote:
>
>> "Stephan Rose" <kermos@somrek.net> wrote in message
>> news:8OadnXsqCM1J8HnYnZ2dnUVZ8srinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Conor wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <3cudnfhW2Znn7H7YRVnytwA@giganews.com>, Stephan Rose says...
>>>>> Zim Babwe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OK so in a typical day when they sell 10,000 PC's with Windows and 24
>>>>>> PC's with Linux, will you be able to notice the shift?
>>>>> Would you please post references to where you got those numbers from?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Widely available stats for the percentage of Linux installs on the
>>>> desktop.
>>> What does that have to do with how many PCs Dell sells with a given
>>> operating system?
>>>
>>> I still haven't seen a reference...
>> I' sure Dell considers that proprietary information.
>
> Then at that point in time his numbers are pulled out of his ass and are
> bull****.
>
>> But if you want to see some actual desktop usage stats, go to
>> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
>> scroll down to the OS Platform Statistics, and you'll see Linux at 3.3%,
>> Mac at 3.5%, and the rest (93.2%) consists of various Windows flavors.
>> I don't think MS has anything to worry about.
>
> So? that is irrelevant. He didn't make a comparison to existing usage
> statistics. He made a comparison to Dell sales. Existing usage statics also
> include sources other than Dell and sales.
>
> And actually, if Dell does do what they claim it can actually shift that
> percentage. Reason why is simple.
>
> Linux at that point in time will be of interest to *anyone* that doesn't
> want to shell out 2,000 dollars for a computer high-end enough to run a
> reasonable edition of Vista that is not stripped down to the level of
> Win2000. Just using W2K because someone mentioned in another thread that
> the explorer classic view is W2K's view not XP's view...
>
> Anyone that wants a machine for less than 1,000 bucks just to go check their
> e-mail, surf their web, do some word processing, etc. will have interest in
> it. Many smaller laptops fall into this category more so than desktops as
> they are generally not as good gaming rigs and high-end machines as
> Desktops due to the inherent limitations of their size.
>
> That person also does not need Aero (besides, beryl can actually do more) as
> it wouldn't even un on that computer (beryl actually might as it runs on
> hardware Aero does not). Matter of fact, it wouldn't even be available with
> the lowest edition of Vista so it doesn't even matter.
>
> That person does not need DirectX10 as no DX10 Game would actually run on
> the system at any playable level.
>
> That person will NOT have any hardware compatibility issues if using linux
> because it becomes pre-installed and configured. At the very least not with
> the actual computer itself. Peripherals can be a problem in any operating
> system.
>
> That person will NOT have any install issues because it is already
> installed.
>
> On the bottom line, Vista is not even feasible for that person as that
> person doesn't even have any need to buy a machine powerful enough to run
> it!
>
> For all those people a computer with Linux on it is a very viable
> alternative especially if it comes pre-installed and pre-configured with no
> hassle and problems.
>
> Now someone might argue this has come up time and time again with previous
> editions of windows. Possibly so. But there is a distinct difference.
>
> Previous editions of windows didn't annihilate the lower end computer users.
> I mean XP will run on a 6 year old laptop of ours!! Vista won't. I actually
> even have XP running on even older than 6 year desktop machine. Matter of
> fact only 2 out of the 9 computers that we have would be able to run Vista
> at any reasonable level. All others would either need memory or video
> upgrades or would simply not even be possible.
>
> With the exception of that one laptop and desktop, the remaining 7 computers
> are all bought or built within the last 24 months.
>
> Vista's high requirements so severely put the low-end users at a
> disadvantage that they are going not just going to want an alternative,
> they are going to need one.
>

It's called Vista Home Basic. I see it on low end machines advertised
here for a lot less than a grand USD.

Here they're selling a desk top for 399 euro (528 USD) with Vista Home
Basic:

http://www.mediamarkt.es/

Alias

Microsoft has been number 1 for twenty years.
That's "fleeting"?


"Alias" <aka@masked&anonymous.mx> wrote in message
news:es2ht1$kl4$2@aioe.org...
> Gary VanderMolen wrote:
>> "Stephan Rose" <kermos@somrek.net> wrote in message
>> news:8OadnXsqCM1J8HnYnZ2dnUVZ8srinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Conor wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <3cudnfhW2Znn7H7YRVnytwA@giganews.com>, Stephan Rose says...
>>>>> Zim Babwe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > OK so in a typical day when they sell 10,000 PC's with Windows and
>>>>> > 24
>>>>> > PC's with Linux, will you be able to notice the shift?
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you please post references to where you got those numbers from?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Widely available stats for the percentage of Linux installs on the
>>>> desktop.
>>>
>>> What does that have to do with how many PCs Dell sells with a given
>>> operating system?
>>>
>>> I still haven't seen a reference...
>>
>> I' sure Dell considers that proprietary information.
>> But if you want to see some actual desktop usage stats, go to
>> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
>> scroll down to the OS Platform Statistics, and you'll see Linux at 3.3%,
>> Mac at 3.5%, and the rest (93.2%) consists of various Windows flavors.
>> I don't think MS has anything to worry about.
>>
>> Gary VanderMolen
>
> That's what Elvis thought until he got home from Germany. Popularity can
> be a fleeting thing.
>
> Alias

I'm not passing judgement either way... just think it could be a case of
Dell rubbing MS's nose in Linux. I suppose Dell wouldn't engage Linux unless
it thought there were good business reasoning behind it. For servers? No
brainer. For workstations and laptops for end users? I have a hard time
believing anyone other than true Linux geeks (and that's intended as a
compliment, btw...) would order a end-user setup with Linux and ultimately
(no pun intended) be happy with it.

Lang

"norm" <noone@afakeddomain.net> wrote in message
news:u4fZRTqWHHA.600@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Lang Murphy wrote:
>> And no one thinks this has anything to do with Dell pressuring MS for
>> better agreements?
>>
>> LOL.
>>
>> Lang
>>
>> "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
>> news:igJEh.19181$gl2.4321@fe10.news.easynews.com...
>>> "Something in the balance of power between the world's largest PC vendor
>>> and the crew in Redmond has shifted, and not in Redmond's favor. You can
>>> bet money on that."
>>>
>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,12...x/article.html
>>
> Seems like if dell at one time took pressure for ms, then turnabout is
> fair play, no?
>
> --
> norm