Vista - Problems with Vista - Feedback for MS

I am a software developer and have recently downloaded Vista Beta 2 build
5384 x64 edition. I have experienced a number of issues with Vista which I
would like to encourage some discussion about:

1. The Vista setup program does not support USB mice - I had to use the
keyboard to control it until Vista finished installing, upon which my Dell
USB mouse was finally recognised and started working.

2. The display settings UI does not seem well thought out. The initial user
interface presents a page of hyper-links to different settings which looks
good. When you actually click on say the "Display Settings" link, it doesn't
take you to a new page which you can navigate with the forward and back
buttons like you'd expect a hyperlink to, instead it pops up a dialog of
settings similar to the old Windows XP Display property sheet. The new Vista
UI is supposed to use a browser style interface - why is it mixing metaphores
like this?

3. Performance in general seems to be very slow on a Dual 3.4GHz Xeon with
Hyper-Threading, 1GB of RAM and an NVIDIA 6800 Ultra card (Vista rating 3)
and it is obvious that not everything is being double buffered. Our own
scientific imaging application, Volocity (www.improvision.com/Volocity) is
unable to use hardware accelerated Open GL (probably due to the beta NVIDIA
drivers) and even 2-D drawing with DirectDraw is incredibly slow and flickery
due to the selective lack of double-buffering.

4. My monitors resync every time a security dialog appears - this is not
good as it puts a strain on them.

5. There are way too many security dialogs - do I really need to click on
one just to change the date and time?

5. Multiple monitor support seems messed up - I was not able to set my LCD
panel to use its highest res (1024x768). Whenever I tried, the settings
would reset, my LCD would set itself back to 800x600 and my CRT would become
the secondary monitor instead of the primary monitor like it is supposed to
be. Maybe this is a problem with the beta NVIDIA drivers?

6. The start menu is too cluttered and the distinction between individual
items has been lost due to the removal of the icons. In particular, the
"Computer" option needs to be much more distinctive and belongs near the top
as it one of the most frequently used items.

7. The new inplace browser to view available programs in the start menu is
awkward to use because the available space is very cramped and requires much
more clicking just to see what programs are available. I much prefer the old
hierarchical menu system.

8. I haven't seen any sign of the new 3-D Alt-Tab window navigation system.
Is this something I have to turn on?

Personally I think MS still has a lot of work to do on this release (yeah, I
know - it's still a beta). The UI is starting to grow on me, though. It
doesn't seem to have the ton of flashy 3-D animations I was expecting (mostly
just subtle things like the scale-down window minimisation animation), but
possibly this is a good thing.

its

windows key + tab

to se ethe flip 3d navigation.


"Oliver David Stuart" <OliverDavidStuart@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:7951B884-48CA-43CD-880A-73BD895B3DCD@microsoft.com...
>I am a software developer and have recently downloaded Vista Beta 2 build
> 5384 x64 edition. I have experienced a number of issues with Vista which
> I
> would like to encourage some discussion about:
>
> 1. The Vista setup program does not support USB mice - I had to use the
> keyboard to control it until Vista finished installing, upon which my Dell
> USB mouse was finally recognised and started working.
>
> 2. The display settings UI does not seem well thought out. The initial
> user
> interface presents a page of hyper-links to different settings which looks
> good. When you actually click on say the "Display Settings" link, it
> doesn't
> take you to a new page which you can navigate with the forward and back
> buttons like you'd expect a hyperlink to, instead it pops up a dialog of
> settings similar to the old Windows XP Display property sheet. The new
> Vista
> UI is supposed to use a browser style interface - why is it mixing
> metaphores
> like this?
>
> 3. Performance in general seems to be very slow on a Dual 3.4GHz Xeon with
> Hyper-Threading, 1GB of RAM and an NVIDIA 6800 Ultra card (Vista rating 3)
> and it is obvious that not everything is being double buffered. Our own
> scientific imaging application, Volocity (www.improvision.com/Volocity) is
> unable to use hardware accelerated Open GL (probably due to the beta
> NVIDIA
> drivers) and even 2-D drawing with DirectDraw is incredibly slow and
> flickery
> due to the selective lack of double-buffering.
>
> 4. My monitors resync every time a security dialog appears - this is not
> good as it puts a strain on them.
>
> 5. There are way too many security dialogs - do I really need to click on
> one just to change the date and time?
>
> 5. Multiple monitor support seems messed up - I was not able to set my LCD
> panel to use its highest res (1024x768). Whenever I tried, the settings
> would reset, my LCD would set itself back to 800x600 and my CRT would
> become
> the secondary monitor instead of the primary monitor like it is supposed
> to
> be. Maybe this is a problem with the beta NVIDIA drivers?
>
> 6. The start menu is too cluttered and the distinction between individual
> items has been lost due to the removal of the icons. In particular, the
> "Computer" option needs to be much more distinctive and belongs near the
> top
> as it one of the most frequently used items.
>
> 7. The new inplace browser to view available programs in the start menu is
> awkward to use because the available space is very cramped and requires
> much
> more clicking just to see what programs are available. I much prefer the
> old
> hierarchical menu system.
>
> 8. I haven't seen any sign of the new 3-D Alt-Tab window navigation
> system.
> Is this something I have to turn on?
>
> Personally I think MS still has a lot of work to do on this release (yeah,
> I
> know - it's still a beta). The UI is starting to grow on me, though. It
> doesn't seem to have the ton of flashy 3-D animations I was expecting
> (mostly
> just subtle things like the scale-down window minimisation animation), but
> possibly this is a good thing.
>

Performance is secondary issue at this point. About the mouse issue you
described seems bit odd. Maybe its some bios setting and usb timings. I
believe that will be fixed as releases go forth. Nvidia beta drivers with
your card should trigger the aero glass as well the win+tab selections. UI
itself, who knows. Its just something new imho.

Sorry about all the dups - the newsgroup system kept giving me an error every
time I tried to post, but it was actually silently posting my message. The
last dup contains the most recent "version" of my msg :-)

Thanks Rahi - that explains it.

"rahi" wrote:

> Performance is secondary issue at this point. About the mouse issue you
> described seems bit odd. Maybe its some bios setting and usb timings. I
> believe that will be fixed as releases go forth. Nvidia beta drivers with
> your card should trigger the aero glass as well the win+tab selections. UI
> itself, who knows. Its just something new imho.

I doubt it's anything to do with my BIOS - I'm using a bog standard Dell
Precision Workstation 670 with an Intel E7525 chip. There are no USB timing
settings to speak of (there are no USB settings at all, actually). I suspect
that the setup program simply doesn't try to load drivers for USB mice, just
PS/2. I'm sure it will be fixed.

I'm not sure all the UI problems can be dismissed as it being "new" or
"different." The in-place program navigator browser in the start menu, for
example, is just clumsy - I can't see any actually benefit over the
hierarchical menu. I have no problem with the look and feel changing, but I
don't think there is anything to gain in replacing standard UI features with
things that are harder to use and provide no improvements.

"rahi" wrote:

> Performance is secondary issue at this point. About the mouse issue you
> described seems bit odd. Maybe its some bios setting and usb timings. I
> believe that will be fixed as releases go forth. Nvidia beta drivers with
> your card should trigger the aero glass as well the win+tab selections. UI
> itself, who knows. Its just something new imho.

Well my mouse is usb and it works fine. 2 different pcs with usb mouse and
no issues at all.


"Oliver David Stuart" <OliverDavidStuart@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news9D4286D-2F2A-44C6-917B-3F841827AE88@microsoft.com...
>I doubt it's anything to do with my BIOS - I'm using a bog standard Dell
> Precision Workstation 670 with an Intel E7525 chip. There are no USB
> timing
> settings to speak of (there are no USB settings at all, actually). I
> suspect
> that the setup program simply doesn't try to load drivers for USB mice,
> just
> PS/2. I'm sure it will be fixed.
>
> I'm not sure all the UI problems can be dismissed as it being "new" or
> "different." The in-place program navigator browser in the start menu,
> for
> example, is just clumsy - I can't see any actually benefit over the
> hierarchical menu. I have no problem with the look and feel changing, but
> I
> don't think there is anything to gain in replacing standard UI features
> with
> things that are harder to use and provide no improvements.
>
> "rahi" wrote:
>
>> Performance is secondary issue at this point. About the mouse issue you
>> described seems bit odd. Maybe its some bios setting and usb timings. I
>> believe that will be fixed as releases go forth. Nvidia beta drivers with
>> your card should trigger the aero glass as well the win+tab selections.
>> UI
>> itself, who knows. Its just something new imho.

My USB mouse works fine as well...sounds like your BIOS doesn't support USB
on startup

"gerryR" <gerryrminus@thisgerryr.com> wrote in message
news:uv0TZNujGHA.3572@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> its
>
> windows key + tab
>
> to se ethe flip 3d navigation.
>
>
> "Oliver David Stuart" <OliverDavidStuart@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
> in message news:7951B884-48CA-43CD-880A-73BD895B3DCD@microsoft.com...
>>I am a software developer and have recently downloaded Vista Beta 2 build
>> 5384 x64 edition. I have experienced a number of issues with Vista which
>> I
>> would like to encourage some discussion about:
>>
>> 1. The Vista setup program does not support USB mice - I had to use the
>> keyboard to control it until Vista finished installing, upon which my
>> Dell
>> USB mouse was finally recognised and started working.
>>
>> 2. The display settings UI does not seem well thought out. The initial
>> user
>> interface presents a page of hyper-links to different settings which
>> looks
>> good. When you actually click on say the "Display Settings" link, it
>> doesn't
>> take you to a new page which you can navigate with the forward and back
>> buttons like you'd expect a hyperlink to, instead it pops up a dialog of
>> settings similar to the old Windows XP Display property sheet. The new
>> Vista
>> UI is supposed to use a browser style interface - why is it mixing
>> metaphores
>> like this?
>>
>> 3. Performance in general seems to be very slow on a Dual 3.4GHz Xeon
>> with
>> Hyper-Threading, 1GB of RAM and an NVIDIA 6800 Ultra card (Vista rating
>> 3)
>> and it is obvious that not everything is being double buffered. Our own
>> scientific imaging application, Volocity (www.improvision.com/Volocity)
>> is
>> unable to use hardware accelerated Open GL (probably due to the beta
>> NVIDIA
>> drivers) and even 2-D drawing with DirectDraw is incredibly slow and
>> flickery
>> due to the selective lack of double-buffering.
>>
>> 4. My monitors resync every time a security dialog appears - this is not
>> good as it puts a strain on them.
>>
>> 5. There are way too many security dialogs - do I really need to click on
>> one just to change the date and time?
>>
>> 5. Multiple monitor support seems messed up - I was not able to set my
>> LCD
>> panel to use its highest res (1024x768). Whenever I tried, the settings
>> would reset, my LCD would set itself back to 800x600 and my CRT would
>> become
>> the secondary monitor instead of the primary monitor like it is supposed
>> to
>> be. Maybe this is a problem with the beta NVIDIA drivers?
>>
>> 6. The start menu is too cluttered and the distinction between individual
>> items has been lost due to the removal of the icons. In particular, the
>> "Computer" option needs to be much more distinctive and belongs near the
>> top
>> as it one of the most frequently used items.
>>
>> 7. The new inplace browser to view available programs in the start menu
>> is
>> awkward to use because the available space is very cramped and requires
>> much
>> more clicking just to see what programs are available. I much prefer the
>> old
>> hierarchical menu system.
>>
>> 8. I haven't seen any sign of the new 3-D Alt-Tab window navigation
>> system.
>> Is this something I have to turn on?
>>
>> Personally I think MS still has a lot of work to do on this release
>> (yeah, I
>> know - it's still a beta). The UI is starting to grow on me, though. It
>> doesn't seem to have the ton of flashy 3-D animations I was expecting
>> (mostly
>> just subtle things like the scale-down window minimisation animation),
>> but
>> possibly this is a good thing.
>>
>
>

My Usb Bluetooth mouse and keyboard were recognised without problem.

Have you logged this with Microsoft?
"Oliver David Stuart" <OliverDavidStuart@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news9D4286D-2F2A-44C6-917B-3F841827AE88@microsoft.com...
>I doubt it's anything to do with my BIOS - I'm using a bog standard Dell
> Precision Workstation 670 with an Intel E7525 chip. There are no USB
> timing
> settings to speak of (there are no USB settings at all, actually). I
> suspect
> that the setup program simply doesn't try to load drivers for USB mice,
> just
> PS/2. I'm sure it will be fixed.
>
> I'm not sure all the UI problems can be dismissed as it being "new" or
> "different." The in-place program navigator browser in the start menu,
> for
> example, is just clumsy - I can't see any actually benefit over the
> hierarchical menu. I have no problem with the look and feel changing, but
> I
> don't think there is anything to gain in replacing standard UI features
> with
> things that are harder to use and provide no improvements.
>
> "rahi" wrote:
>
>> Performance is secondary issue at this point. About the mouse issue you
>> described seems bit odd. Maybe its some bios setting and usb timings. I
>> believe that will be fixed as releases go forth. Nvidia beta drivers with
>> your card should trigger the aero glass as well the win+tab selections.
>> UI
>> itself, who knows. Its just something new imho.

Legacy USB support in the BIOS is so that a USB keyboard can be used to
navigate the BIOS settings screen without an OS being loaded.

There is no reason why Vista setup can't load a generic USB mouse driver
without requiring any support from the BIOS.

"Bones" wrote:

> My USB mouse works fine as well...sounds like your BIOS doesn't support USB
> on startup
>
> "gerryR" <gerryrminus@thisgerryr.com> wrote in message
> news:uv0TZNujGHA.3572@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> > its
> >
> > windows key + tab
> >
> > to se ethe flip 3d navigation.
> >
> >
> > "Oliver David Stuart" <OliverDavidStuart@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
> > in message news:7951B884-48CA-43CD-880A-73BD895B3DCD@microsoft.com...
> >>I am a software developer and have recently downloaded Vista Beta 2 build
> >> 5384 x64 edition. I have experienced a number of issues with Vista which
> >> I
> >> would like to encourage some discussion about:
> >>
> >> 1. The Vista setup program does not support USB mice - I had to use the
> >> keyboard to control it until Vista finished installing, upon which my
> >> Dell
> >> USB mouse was finally recognised and started working.
> >>
> >> 2. The display settings UI does not seem well thought out. The initial
> >> user
> >> interface presents a page of hyper-links to different settings which
> >> looks
> >> good. When you actually click on say the "Display Settings" link, it
> >> doesn't
> >> take you to a new page which you can navigate with the forward and back
> >> buttons like you'd expect a hyperlink to, instead it pops up a dialog of
> >> settings similar to the old Windows XP Display property sheet. The new
> >> Vista
> >> UI is supposed to use a browser style interface - why is it mixing
> >> metaphores
> >> like this?
> >>
> >> 3. Performance in general seems to be very slow on a Dual 3.4GHz Xeon
> >> with
> >> Hyper-Threading, 1GB of RAM and an NVIDIA 6800 Ultra card (Vista rating
> >> 3)
> >> and it is obvious that not everything is being double buffered. Our own
> >> scientific imaging application, Volocity (www.improvision.com/Volocity)
> >> is
> >> unable to use hardware accelerated Open GL (probably due to the beta
> >> NVIDIA
> >> drivers) and even 2-D drawing with DirectDraw is incredibly slow and
> >> flickery
> >> due to the selective lack of double-buffering.
> >>
> >> 4. My monitors resync every time a security dialog appears - this is not
> >> good as it puts a strain on them.
> >>
> >> 5. There are way too many security dialogs - do I really need to click on
> >> one just to change the date and time?
> >>
> >> 5. Multiple monitor support seems messed up - I was not able to set my
> >> LCD
> >> panel to use its highest res (1024x768). Whenever I tried, the settings
> >> would reset, my LCD would set itself back to 800x600 and my CRT would
> >> become
> >> the secondary monitor instead of the primary monitor like it is supposed
> >> to
> >> be. Maybe this is a problem with the beta NVIDIA drivers?
> >>
> >> 6. The start menu is too cluttered and the distinction between individual
> >> items has been lost due to the removal of the icons. In particular, the
> >> "Computer" option needs to be much more distinctive and belongs near the
> >> top
> >> as it one of the most frequently used items.
> >>
> >> 7. The new inplace browser to view available programs in the start menu
> >> is
> >> awkward to use because the available space is very cramped and requires
> >> much
> >> more clicking just to see what programs are available. I much prefer the
> >> old
> >> hierarchical menu system.
> >>
> >> 8. I haven't seen any sign of the new 3-D Alt-Tab window navigation
> >> system.
> >> Is this something I have to turn on?
> >>
> >> Personally I think MS still has a lot of work to do on this release
> >> (yeah, I
> >> know - it's still a beta). The UI is starting to grow on me, though. It
> >> doesn't seem to have the ton of flashy 3-D animations I was expecting
> >> (mostly
> >> just subtle things like the scale-down window minimisation animation),
> >> but
> >> possibly this is a good thing.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>