Vista - BSOD - just started - safe mode works perfect - all drivers signed

I was using vista no problem until this morning. Over 2 months of uptime.
Games, internet, utilities, etc all working.

Now safe mode only works.

In regular mode, the machine reboots (whether you log on or not) with the
following error:
c000021a Fatal System Error

There is no help anywhere for this, and this is a critical dire problem for
microsoft. I've never seen a problem like this where safe mode with
networking works perfect and a BSOD like this happens in regular mode but the
BSOD is very non specific.

The Hardware is a:
D975XBX2 Intel
X6800 Intel
GeForce 8800GTX Nvidia
DDR2800 ECC (ECC memory) with ECC enabled Elpidia
PX-760A Plextor
WD Raptor 73GB Western Digital
Seagate Barracuda ES 750GB Seagate

In other words, if you say the hardware is the problem, I'd be suprised. I
burned this hardware down with Knoppix and XP and Windows 2003, no issues.
Anyways here is the problem report abstract:

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.4
Locale ID: 1033

Files that help describe the problem (some files may no longer be available)
Mini041107-99.dmp
sysdata.xml
Version.txt

View a temporary copy of these files
Warning: If a virus or other security threat caused the problem, opening a
copy of the files could harm your computer.

Extra information about the problem
BCCode: c000021a
BCP1: 94C2FFE0
BCP2: C0000001
BCP3: 00000000
BCP4: 00000000
OS Version: 6_0_6000
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1
Server information: 4f3748b4-1d9f-486f-aa33-db77a1f2acb9

If I was responsible for QA on Vista, I would find a bug like this extremely
interesting as there is little information as to what is faulting and why,
and with ECC memory in the CPU cache and main memory, there is a strong
possibility this software is really messed up.

Found this. See if it helps:
http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/...6505&SiteID=17


--
Pete138
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete138's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/member.php?userid=21959
View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=723580

http://forums.techarena.in

mickrussom wrote:
> I was using vista no problem until this morning. Over 2 months of
> uptime. Games, internet, utilities, etc all working.
>
> Now safe mode only works.
>
> In regular mode, the machine reboots (whether you log on or not) with
> the following error:
> c000021a Fatal System Error
>
> There is no help anywhere for this, and this is a critical dire
> problem for microsoft. I've never seen a problem like this where safe
> mode with networking works perfect and a BSOD like this happens in
> regular mode but the BSOD is very non specific.
>
> The Hardware is a:
> D975XBX2 Intel
> X6800 Intel
> GeForce 8800GTX Nvidia
> DDR2800 ECC (ECC memory) with ECC enabled Elpidia
> PX-760A Plextor
> WD Raptor 73GB Western Digital
> Seagate Barracuda ES 750GB Seagate
>
> In other words, if you say the hardware is the problem, I'd be
> suprised. I burned this hardware down with Knoppix and XP and Windows
> 2003, no issues. Anyways here is the problem report abstract:
>
> Problem signature
> Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
> OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.4
> Locale ID: 1033
>
> Files that help describe the problem (some files may no longer be
> available) Mini041107-99.dmp
> sysdata.xml
> Version.txt
>
> View a temporary copy of these files
> Warning: If a virus or other security threat caused the problem,
> opening a copy of the files could harm your computer.
>
> Extra information about the problem
> BCCode: c000021a
> BCP1: 94C2FFE0
> BCP2: C0000001
> BCP3: 00000000
> BCP4: 00000000
> OS Version: 6_0_6000
> Service Pack: 0_0
> Product: 256_1
> Server information: 4f3748b4-1d9f-486f-aa33-db77a1f2acb9
>
> If I was responsible for QA on Vista, I would find a bug like this
> extremely interesting as there is little information as to what is
> faulting and why, and with ECC memory in the CPU cache and main
> memory, there is a strong possibility this software is really messed
> up.

The likely candidate is your graphics card. The nVidia website states the
drivers for the card are still under development. The drivers, including
the most current release are still in Beta. They have link at their site
for reporting any bugs. All of this information as at the following site:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_100.65.html

--
Michael Solomon

Where is there an indication that the video driver is at fault?

Also, why would the video driver that is in there has worked for 2 months
suddenly stop working?

It was able to play DX10 demo "cascades", DeuxEx2, DeusEx1, Hitman1,
Hitman4, GTA San Andreas, HalfLife2 without crashing - for Months.

When the video drivers dies or messes up , it is very clear in the BSOD.
This BSOD doesnt seem to implicate the video card or the video driver in any
way that I can see. I also tried an older windows update provided Nvidia
driver and this still happens.

I'd like to go out and buy a WHQL certified signed driver DX10 capable video
card for my Vista, BUT there arent any other DX10 cards out there today. Why
would Microsoft release an OS with a new API, then when the only card that
works with that API doesnt work so well blame Nvidia. That seems a bit bleak.
If this is the videe card, then MSFT should be acutely interested as to why
this is happening rather than just saying "NVIDIA DID IT." Most machines out
there have Nvidia cards in them, so this issue will affect most machines.

The way I would handle this if I was managing microsoft support would be to
get the person who is having this trouble in the ticket system (for free) so
that esclation can occur and the bug either gets filed and fixed or NVDA and
MSFT work together to solve the problem quickly. This thing has been RTM for
a long while already.

Thanks for the quick reply, but before I came, I already downgraded the
video driver, no difference.

?? Would you like me to try to completely remove Nvidia support in safe mode
and run in the generic SVGA driver and see if this still occurs ?? That way
NVIDA is out of the loop..

There is no "experience" or "wow" in microsoft and nvidia blaming each other
for stability woes, lets get this bug hashed out.

"Michael Solomon" wrote:
>
> The likely candidate is your graphics card. The nVidia website states > the
> drivers for the card are still under development. The drivers, > > > > including
> the most current release are still in Beta. They have link at their > > site
> for reporting any bugs. All of this information as at the following > > site:
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_100.65.html
>
> --
> Michael Solomon
>
>
>

Thank you.

The link
"Install error Vista RC1: C000021A Fatal System Error"

I'm not running the Marvell raid or Intel fake-raid, I'm running ICH7 AHCI
plain-jane. The dangerous marvell controller is disabled. The ICH7 is one of
the most common chipsets out there right now.

I also can log into windows. The BSOD happens after the whole system is up.
None of the delayed start services is doing it, I disabled them. In fact, I
disabled all non-microsoft services and all startups in msconfig, still the
same problem.







"Pete138" wrote:

>
> Found this. See if it helps:
> http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/...6505&SiteID=17
>
>
> --
> Pete138
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Pete138's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/member.php?userid=21959
> View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=723580
>
> http://forums.techarena.in
>
>

Inline:
mickrussom wrote:
> Where is there an indication that the video driver is at fault?

The nVidia site to which I provided a link specifically states the drivers
are still in development and may not be fully optimized for 3D performance.
Given the problems nVidia has been having with their drivers and the demands
placed on the graphics card by the OS, it's a reasonable conclusion.

>
> Also, why would the video driver that is in there has worked for 2
> months suddenly stop working?

Various changes and updates to the system, new applications installed,
perhaps new things you might be doing that you weren't doing before, new
applications installed that might have pushed card stability over the edge.
>
> It was able to play DX10 demo "cascades", DeuxEx2, DeusEx1, Hitman1,
> Hitman4, GTA San Andreas, HalfLife2 without crashing - for Months.
>
> When the video drivers dies or messes up , it is very clear in the
> BSOD. This BSOD doesnt seem to implicate the video card or the video
> driver in any way that I can see. I also tried an older windows
> update provided Nvidia driver and this still happens.

I said it was a good place to start but it could be any device on your
system. I should have stated that specifically and added the following, in
order to source the issue for sure, you would need to remove devices one by
one, testing after each removal whether or not the problem still exists
because as near as I can tell, there is nothing in the BSOD that points to a
specific device.

>
> I'd like to go out and buy a WHQL certified signed driver DX10
> capable video card for my Vista, BUT there arent any other DX10 cards
> out there today. Why would Microsoft release an OS with a new API,
> then when the only card that works with that API doesnt work so well
> blame Nvidia. That seems a bit bleak. If this is the videe card, then
> MSFT should be acutely interested as to why this is happening rather
> than just saying "NVIDIA DID IT." Most machines out there have Nvidia
> cards in them, so this issue will affect most machines.

It's not that Microsoft is blaming nVidia and I'm not really doing that
either. Drivers are the responsibility of the manufacturers and as stated
at the same nVidia site to which I provided a link, all manufacturers are
working on their drivers to take advantage of the new features as well as to
provide a stable environment in which to work. Typically, this takes some
time and historically, it has usually taken a bit longer with nVidia. I
don't mean that as a criticism but having beta tested, since Windows 98,
historically, it took a bit of time until nVidia was able to produce stable
drivers for their product after the release of a new OS. It didn't
necesssarily apply to all of their cards but it usually took some time
before we stopped seeing quite so many of these issues.

>
> The way I would handle this if I was managing microsoft support would
> be to get the person who is having this trouble in the ticket system
> (for free) so that esclation can occur and the bug either gets filed
> and fixed or NVDA and MSFT work together to solve the problem
> quickly. This thing has been RTM for a long while already.

Some of the problems in the past were due to graphics manufacturer's
sub-contracting out their cards. This is still done but more and more, the
drivers are being handlend by the branded manufacturer. There also have
been issues with specific "flavors" of chipsets which didn't always conform
and special drivers were required, distinct from other cards of seemingly
the same model. Again, the manufacturer's have seen this issue and the
nightmare it was and they have been moving to correct this situation. That
said, cards are still contracted out and this may still be causing issues in
trying to produce stable drivers.
>
> Thanks for the quick reply, but before I came, I already downgraded
> the video driver, no difference.
>
> ?? Would you like me to try to completely remove Nvidia support in
> safe mode and run in the generic SVGA driver and see if this still
> occurs ?? That way NVIDA is out of the loop..

That's certainly worth a try and certainly fits with the scenario I
suggested above, removing devices one by one, testing after each removal if
you still have the problem as that should help source the problem device.
By the way, if that doesn't work, the next step would be to remove
applications one by one doing the same test.
>
> There is no "experience" or "wow" in microsoft and nvidia blaming
> each other for stability woes, lets get this bug hashed out.

I'm sorry if anything I said, sounded like blame, I was trying to provide
some assistance which may have looked as though I was casting blame but that
was not my intent.
>
> "Michael Solomon" wrote:
>>
>> The likely candidate is your graphics card. The nVidia website
>> states > the drivers for the card are still under development. The
>> drivers, > > > > including the most current release are still in
>> Beta. They have link at their > > site for reporting any bugs. All
>> of this information as at the following > > site:
>> http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_100.65.html
>>
>> --
>> Michael Solomon



--
Michael Solomon

Michael Solomon wrote:
> Inline:
> mickrussom wrote:
>> Where is there an indication that the video driver is at fault?
>
> The nVidia site to which I provided a link specifically states the
> drivers are still in development and may not be fully optimized for
> 3D performance. Given the problems nVidia has been having with their
> drivers and the demands placed on the graphics card by the OS, it's a
> reasonable conclusion.
>>
>> Also, why would the video driver that is in there has worked for 2
>> months suddenly stop working?
>
> Various changes and updates to the system, new applications installed,
> perhaps new things you might be doing that you weren't doing before,
> new applications installed that might have pushed card stability over
> the edge.
>>
>> It was able to play DX10 demo "cascades", DeuxEx2, DeusEx1, Hitman1,
>> Hitman4, GTA San Andreas, HalfLife2 without crashing - for Months.
>>
>> When the video drivers dies or messes up , it is very clear in the
>> BSOD. This BSOD doesnt seem to implicate the video card or the video
>> driver in any way that I can see. I also tried an older windows
>> update provided Nvidia driver and this still happens.
>
> I said it was a good place to start but it could be any device on your
> system. I should have stated that specifically and added the
> following, in order to source the issue for sure, you would need to
> remove devices one by one, testing after each removal whether or not
> the problem still exists because as near as I can tell, there is
> nothing in the BSOD that points to a specific device.
>
>>
>> I'd like to go out and buy a WHQL certified signed driver DX10
>> capable video card for my Vista, BUT there arent any other DX10 cards
>> out there today. Why would Microsoft release an OS with a new API,
>> then when the only card that works with that API doesnt work so well
>> blame Nvidia. That seems a bit bleak. If this is the videe card, then
>> MSFT should be acutely interested as to why this is happening rather
>> than just saying "NVIDIA DID IT." Most machines out there have Nvidia
>> cards in them, so this issue will affect most machines.
>
> It's not that Microsoft is blaming nVidia and I'm not really doing
> that either. Drivers are the responsibility of the manufacturers and
> as stated at the same nVidia site to which I provided a link, all
> manufacturers are working on their drivers to take advantage of the
> new features as well as to provide a stable environment in which to
> work. Typically, this takes some time and historically, it has
> usually taken a bit longer with nVidia. I don't mean that as a
> criticism but having beta tested, since Windows 98, historically, it
> took a bit of time until nVidia was able to produce stable drivers for
> their product after the release of a new OS. It didn't
> necesssarily apply to all of their cards but it usually took some
> time before we stopped seeing quite so many of these issues.
>>
>> The way I would handle this if I was managing microsoft support would
>> be to get the person who is having this trouble in the ticket system
>> (for free) so that esclation can occur and the bug either gets filed
>> and fixed or NVDA and MSFT work together to solve the problem
>> quickly. This thing has been RTM for a long while already.
>
> Some of the problems in the past were due to graphics manufacturer's
> sub-contracting out their cards. This is still done but more and
> more, the drivers are being handlend by the branded manufacturer. There
> also have been issues with specific "flavors" of chipsets which
> didn't always conform and special drivers were required, distinct
> from other cards of seemingly the same model. Again, the
> manufacturer's have seen this issue and the nightmare it was and they
> have been moving to correct this situation. That said, cards are
> still contracted out and this may still be causing issues in trying
> to produce stable drivers.
>>
>> Thanks for the quick reply, but before I came, I already downgraded
>> the video driver, no difference.
>>
>> ?? Would you like me to try to completely remove Nvidia support in
>> safe mode and run in the generic SVGA driver and see if this still
>> occurs ?? That way NVIDA is out of the loop..
>
> That's certainly worth a try and certainly fits with the scenario I
> suggested above, removing devices one by one, testing after each
> removal if you still have the problem as that should help source the
> problem device. By the way, if that doesn't work, the next step would
> be to remove applications one by one doing the same test.
>>
>> There is no "experience" or "wow" in microsoft and nvidia blaming
>> each other for stability woes, lets get this bug hashed out.
>
> I'm sorry if anything I said, sounded like blame, I was trying to
> provide some assistance which may have looked as though I was casting
> blame but that was not my intent.
>>
>> "Michael Solomon" wrote:

Just one other point I want to add, typically, when you have a BSOD that
doesn't point to something specific, I usually start with the graphics card.
It's the one device that is fully integrated into every part of the system,
everything you do, everywhere you go, a call is made to the card. That way,
if nothing else, as you yourself have pointed out, you can quickly rule that
out and move on to the rest of your devices.

--
Michael Solomon

I will try cleansing the system of the nvidia drivers and using the fallback
SVGA driver.

Just note that in safe mode, the system is not that useful for recovery, as
you cant uninstall applications because the installer service wont start, and
you cant restore to a previous restore point as the volume shadow copy
service wont start.

I could probably solve this problem rather easily by starting in a safe mode
that allows me to start the services one by one and try and get the system
back into the full state. The unix analog to this (which has been around for
a long time) would be to start in init 1 / runlevel 1 and then execute every
startup script in runlevels 3/4/5 to get the system completely up and see
which one causes issue.

If you know of a way to get safe mode to allow the starting of services, I
can tell if its those services or if it is the fact that most of the drivers
are disabled is casuing the problem.

Given that I can get completely into the OS and log in (making last known
good update to the new state) , I am skeptical about device drivers being at
fault.




"Michael Solomon" wrote:

> Michael Solomon wrote:
> > Inline:
> > mickrussom wrote:
> >> Where is there an indication that the video driver is at fault?
> >
> > The nVidia site to which I provided a link specifically states the
> > drivers are still in development and may not be fully optimized for
> > 3D performance. Given the problems nVidia has been having with their
> > drivers and the demands placed on the graphics card by the OS, it's a
> > reasonable conclusion.
> >>
> >> Also, why would the video driver that is in there has worked for 2
> >> months suddenly stop working?
> >
> > Various changes and updates to the system, new applications installed,
> > perhaps new things you might be doing that you weren't doing before,
> > new applications installed that might have pushed card stability over
> > the edge.
> >>
> >> It was able to play DX10 demo "cascades", DeuxEx2, DeusEx1, Hitman1,
> >> Hitman4, GTA San Andreas, HalfLife2 without crashing - for Months.
> >>
> >> When the video drivers dies or messes up , it is very clear in the
> >> BSOD. This BSOD doesnt seem to implicate the video card or the video
> >> driver in any way that I can see. I also tried an older windows
> >> update provided Nvidia driver and this still happens.
> >
> > I said it was a good place to start but it could be any device on your
> > system. I should have stated that specifically and added the
> > following, in order to source the issue for sure, you would need to
> > remove devices one by one, testing after each removal whether or not
> > the problem still exists because as near as I can tell, there is
> > nothing in the BSOD that points to a specific device.
> >
> >>
> >> I'd like to go out and buy a WHQL certified signed driver DX10
> >> capable video card for my Vista, BUT there arent any other DX10 cards
> >> out there today. Why would Microsoft release an OS with a new API,
> >> then when the only card that works with that API doesnt work so well
> >> blame Nvidia. That seems a bit bleak. If this is the videe card, then
> >> MSFT should be acutely interested as to why this is happening rather
> >> than just saying "NVIDIA DID IT." Most machines out there have Nvidia
> >> cards in them, so this issue will affect most machines.
> >
> > It's not that Microsoft is blaming nVidia and I'm not really doing
> > that either. Drivers are the responsibility of the manufacturers and
> > as stated at the same nVidia site to which I provided a link, all
> > manufacturers are working on their drivers to take advantage of the
> > new features as well as to provide a stable environment in which to
> > work. Typically, this takes some time and historically, it has
> > usually taken a bit longer with nVidia. I don't mean that as a
> > criticism but having beta tested, since Windows 98, historically, it
> > took a bit of time until nVidia was able to produce stable drivers for
> > their product after the release of a new OS. It didn't
> > necesssarily apply to all of their cards but it usually took some
> > time before we stopped seeing quite so many of these issues.
> >>
> >> The way I would handle this if I was managing microsoft support would
> >> be to get the person who is having this trouble in the ticket system
> >> (for free) so that esclation can occur and the bug either gets filed
> >> and fixed or NVDA and MSFT work together to solve the problem
> >> quickly. This thing has been RTM for a long while already.
> >
> > Some of the problems in the past were due to graphics manufacturer's
> > sub-contracting out their cards. This is still done but more and
> > more, the drivers are being handlend by the branded manufacturer. There
> > also have been issues with specific "flavors" of chipsets which
> > didn't always conform and special drivers were required, distinct
> > from other cards of seemingly the same model. Again, the
> > manufacturer's have seen this issue and the nightmare it was and they
> > have been moving to correct this situation. That said, cards are
> > still contracted out and this may still be causing issues in trying
> > to produce stable drivers.
> >>
> >> Thanks for the quick reply, but before I came, I already downgraded
> >> the video driver, no difference.
> >>
> >> ?? Would you like me to try to completely remove Nvidia support in
> >> safe mode and run in the generic SVGA driver and see if this still
> >> occurs ?? That way NVIDA is out of the loop..
> >
> > That's certainly worth a try and certainly fits with the scenario I
> > suggested above, removing devices one by one, testing after each
> > removal if you still have the problem as that should help source the
> > problem device. By the way, if that doesn't work, the next step would
> > be to remove applications one by one doing the same test.
> >>
> >> There is no "experience" or "wow" in microsoft and nvidia blaming
> >> each other for stability woes, lets get this bug hashed out.
> >
> > I'm sorry if anything I said, sounded like blame, I was trying to
> > provide some assistance which may have looked as though I was casting
> > blame but that was not my intent.
> >>
> >> "Michael Solomon" wrote:
>
> Just one other point I want to add, typically, when you have a BSOD that
> doesn't point to something specific, I usually start with the graphics card.
> It's the one device that is fully integrated into every part of the system,
> everything you do, everywhere you go, a call is made to the card. That way,
> if nothing else, as you yourself have pointed out, you can quickly rule that
> out and move on to the rest of your devices.
>
> --
> Michael Solomon
>
>
>

Quick precursor to the message, my tone is in no way intended to pejorative
towards you or Microsoft, just expressing a frustrating situation. Again,
thanks for your interest in the issue.

"Michael Solomon" wrote:
>
> The nVidia site to which I provided a link specifically states the drivers
> are still in development and may not be fully optimized for 3D performance.
> Given the problems nVidia has been having with their drivers and the demands
> placed on the graphics card by the OS, it's a reasonable conclusion.

Yes, but despite them having some rending issues, they were working rather
well. I haven't really ever seen them "blow up", and when I did have issues
with them, Windows Vista did tell me they were at fault and recovered from it
(For example, cascades DX10 will crash if you leave it running and
destabilize the whole system). Windows seems very clever at identifying when
drivers are to blame, and I am aware that 80%+ of all BSOD is caused by third
party/installed drivers (things that do not come with the OS). Just to know,
I don't use outside drivers if windows find the hardware.


>
> Various changes and updates to the system, new applications installed,
> perhaps new things you might be doing that you weren't doing before, new
> applications installed that might have pushed card stability over the edge.
Either the card "snapped" and now it is not ever going to work in the full
capacity again, or the driver or OS changed in some way to prevent the good
hardware from working. This hardware can run 3dmark2006 benchmark without
even breaking a sweat - so Ill chalk up the hardware as good. The driver I
did not change. The card is basically idle in the desktop screen as rendering
this stuff is very easy for an 8800GTX. Most stability issues with video
cards come from pushing them in 3dgames, I've not seen a scenario where 2D
can push a card that hard.


> I said it was a good place to start but it could be any device on your
> system. I should have stated that specifically and added the following, in
> order to source the issue for sure, you would need to remove devices one by
> one, testing after each removal whether or not the problem still exists
> because as near as I can tell, there is nothing in the BSOD that points to a
> specific device.
I will take this under advisement and attempt to run with the default SVGA
driver and see if I can get into the OS and use it in "full" mode.

> It's not that Microsoft is blaming nVidia and I'm not really doing that
> either. Drivers are the responsibility of the manufacturers and as stated
> at the same nVidia site to which I provided a link, all manufacturers are
> working on their drivers to take advantage of the new features as well as to
> provide a stable environment in which to work. Typically, this takes some
> time and historically, it has usually taken a bit longer with nVidia. I
> don't mean that as a criticism but having beta tested, since Windows 98,
> historically, it took a bit of time until nVidia was able to produce stable
> drivers for their product after the release of a new OS. It didn't
> necessarily apply to all of their cards but it usually took some time
> before we stopped seeing quite so many of these issues.
Yes, but Microsoft must manage the perception. Even if Microsoft isn't at
fault, I think helping NVIDIA get bootstrapped should be done. If I was
Gates/Ballmer/Whoever, I would dispatch crack engineering efforts into
getting NVIDIA stabilized, its certainly worth the time and money. I might be
able to understand that NVIDIA caused this, but there are people out there
that may return a dell simply because this happened (and cannot be easily
resolved) and blame Dell/MSFT. Googling for c000021a errors and checking the
MSFT KB for c000021a doesn't offer much hope, as it seems when people are
plagued by this error, resolutions are voodoo-ish.


> Some of the problems in the past were due to graphics manufacturer's
> sub-contracting out their cards. This is still done but more and more, the
> drivers are being handled by the branded manufacturer. There also have
> been issues with specific "flavors" of chipsets which didn't always conform
> and special drivers were required, distinct from other cards of seemingly
> the same model. Again, the manufacturer's have seen this issue and the
> nightmare it was and they have been moving to correct this situation. That
> said, cards are still contracted out and this may still be causing issues in
> trying to produce stable drivers.
I think the graphics hardware is so complex these days its amazing it works.
I would blame most of the issues on software drivers with regards to these
modern cards. Given the rendering errors I've seen its half baked stuff -
Nvidia needs more folks stabilizing the driver. I think they are feature
stuffing it right now to try and bury ATI, rather than focus on stability.
There are issues.


> That's certainly worth a try and certainly fits with the scenario I
> suggested above, removing devices one by one, testing after each removal if
> you still have the problem as that should help source the problem device.

Will do.

> I'm sorry if anything I said, sounded like blame, I was trying to provide
> some assistance which may have looked as though I was casting blame but that
> was not my intent.
I know what you are saying. I don't like how text conveys tone. You don't
have to be here. Nobody has to care about this problem, any feedback I get is
a gift. My goal is to show MSFT really that managing these issues will be
critical in the uptake and acceptance of this OS. Problems like these where
folks, like myself, who have been adept at fixing problems since Windows NT
3.5, through NT4, 2K, XP, 2K3 suddenly hit a wall they have never seen. That
is how I feel right now. Normally I can fix issues like these, and when I hit
a wall I want to get past it as soon as possible to add this to my list of
problems that can happen and how to fix it.
Keep in mind, this is what I see on the BSOD:

STOP: c000021a {Fatal System Error}

The NT Initial Command Process System process terminated unexpectedly with a
status of 0xC0000001 (0xC0000000 0xC0000000)

The system has been shut down.


I don’t understand these deeply, but "NT Initial Command Process" is not a
usual thing to see in a BSOD. And this "NT Initial Command Process" crashes
after I login.

Even if this was something fundamental like CSRSS.EXE I would think that
that name would appear in the BSOD.

This is, I believe, an unusual problem and solving it would be meritorious.

mickrussom wrote:
> I will try cleansing the system of the nvidia drivers and using the
> fallback SVGA driver.
>
> Just note that in safe mode, the system is not that useful for
> recovery, as you cant uninstall applications because the installer
> service wont start, and you cant restore to a previous restore point
> as the volume shadow copy service wont start.
>
> I could probably solve this problem rather easily by starting in a
> safe mode that allows me to start the services one by one and try and
> get the system back into the full state. The unix analog to this
> (which has been around for a long time) would be to start in init 1 /
> runlevel 1 and then execute every startup script in runlevels 3/4/5
> to get the system completely up and see which one causes issue.
>
> If you know of a way to get safe mode to allow the starting of
> services, I can tell if its those services or if it is the fact that
> most of the drivers are disabled is casuing the problem.
>
> Given that I can get completely into the OS and log in (making last
> known good update to the new state) , I am skeptical about device
> drivers being at fault.
>
>
>
>

I don't know of a way to deal with that issue. I think we need to focus on
the drivers and go from there. However, if you're able to get into the OS
from last known good update, you might start there. Do that, then carefully
make note of what you are doing and continue to do to see if the problem
replicates. You're going to be far more concious of your actions now and
what you've done, changes that might have been made, installations or even
updates that come into the system because now you'll be watching for this
event to replicate.
--
Michael Solomon