Vista - Windows Product Activation Issues. . . . . . . Again!

Here is an interesting article I have found on the Internet about the OEM
product activation issue:

http://apcmag.com/6090/microsoft_we_...port_oem_vista :
extracted shown below:

Conventional wisdom holds that if you feel the urge to upgrade to Windows
Vista, buying it pre-installed on a new machine is the best way to go. The
advantages are allegedly twofold: there should be fresh and functional
drivers for all the built-in hardware, and you get OEM pricing (much lower
than the retail $400-$700 price range) for your new OS.

That discount pricing comes with a nasty twist, however. Because you've
purchased an OEM copy, Microsoft won't extend to you the courtesy of a
90-day support period for Vista, which it does offer to customers who
struggle through the upgrade process on their existing machines. Instead, it
will direct you straight back to your hardware manufacturer.

If, however, the manufacturer decides that you have a software problem
rather than defective hardware, it will send you straight back to Microsoft,
which will demand a consulting fee (currently $80 for Australian users) to
even think about the problem, and without offering anything approaching a
guaranteed fix.

In a characteristic fit of no comment, Microsoft declined to make a
spokesperson available to discuss the issue of its support policy with APC.
However, in a prepared statement, it offered the following minimal
justification for its help-no-customers approach: "Microsoft makes versions
of its software products available to manufacturers and system builders at
prices which reflect the expectation that the OEM will provide the
after-sales service, not Microsoft." Translation: we're not making enough
money from you to make it worth our while to fix your OS problems.

This is a breathtaking enough statement in its own right, but Microsoft also
offered an interesting twist. "In most cases, the support provided by the
OEM is as good, if not better than that provided by Microsoft because the
OEM is familiar with the system hardware as well as the software."
Translation: we don't know what our OEMs are installing, but we're certainly
not going to take responsibility for it. And by the way, the quality of our
own support is apparently open to question.

What does this mean in practical terms? If you anticipate needing support
for your Vista upgrade (and that certainly doesn't seem to be an uncommon
scenario), you might be better off purchasing a full retail copy and
claiming the free support. At $80 a pop, it won't be too long before you
make your money back.

*********************************************************************
My response to the story:

What absolute nonsense. Ok, I admit that the contract that all system
builders that purchase OEM software are responsible for there own support.
But, what I dont agree is that Microsoft offering drivers updates that
change the hardware hash key that forces vista to think that its is on a
different PC. I have also found another interesting article on the internet
is a hidden vista command called SkipReam which can prolonged the product
activation time. What do you think? I will contact Microsoft again soon for
one last try to resolve this issue and many thanks to those who have replied
to my posts. They were very helpful.

*********************************************************************
Previous posts:

PS:

If they forced you to take (5), don't let them get away easily this time.
As a customer, you have given them many chances before (5). So up to that
point, they deserve some lessons.


"xfile" <cou-cou@remove.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:e5WsejolHHA.4628@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> You could try a new install, but I doubt it would work since as you
> mentioned, which is also true, that this product key is indeed in use (by
> you). If you failed again, what I will suggest and would do if I were
> you:
>
> (1) Gather all information including previous conversations with the three
> agents (time, person names, contents), purchase receipt, CD, and prepare
> to record the next conversation that you're going to make;
>
> (2) Call the activation center again, and tell the agent that you wish to
> speak with the supervisor;
>
> (3) If the agent refuses, ask her/his name, and tell the agent that you
> are going to repeat the request again but will record the conversation.
> Start recording, repeat the request, and ask the agent for his/her name,
> and hang up the phone, if you still can't talk to the supervisor and go to
> (5).
>
> (4) If you manage to speak with the supervisor, tell the supervisor that
> the following conversation will be recorded, and then start recording and
> proceed to explain your situation and tell the supervisor about the steps
> have been taken and the responses from the three agents. Wait for his/her
> responses. If it's favorable, accept it and hang up the phone and keep
> the recording for future reference. If not, tell the supervisor that you
> will make it a public story and ask the supervisor to reconsider it. If
> still can't, hang up the phone and go to (5).
>
> (5) Write a formal letter detailing the entire story and "attempts" that
> you have made in order to resolve the issue, with all information
> including recording, and mail it (at least) to the company's corporate PR,
> investor relations, customer service, and to the supervisor, and also make
> copies to local news stations, newspapers, BBB, and Division of
> Enforcement under Bureau of Consumer of Protection of Federal Trade
> Commission, and share your story on the net and so on.
>
> PS: As part of homework, do read the link provided by Nina Diboy and
> remind them about their own policy if anyone is asking more than necessary
> information during your conversation with activation center.
>
> Wait and someone will contact you and proceed from there.
>
> Hope this helps and good luck!
>
>
> "Boabyboy" <:-(nospam@nothanks.com> wrote in message
> news:eFQIg$ilHHA.4684@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I have phoned Microsoft support to sort out the activation key issue and
>> this is the results so far:
>>
>> 1. An Indian lady called Deepti advised to wait a week so that they can
>> generate a new key as they dont have the key for Windows Vista 64
>> Ultimate after I gave them my phone, email and my cd key.
>>
>> 2. The 2nd Indian person I spoke said my license key and cd is wrong as
>> the company should not be selling OEM cds to consumers. The Vista 64
>> ultimate cd purchased from an online site called overclockers.co.uk.
>> Hell, even Amazon is selling OEM. Which I pointed out to the individual.
>> His response is that they are in breach of the Microsoft Volume license.
>>
>> 3. Another 3rd Indian bloke called Jugume. Well you know, once he asked
>> me what does the cd description say as the previous agents asked
>> (probably got this as he reading my call history) I replied, "blah, blah,
>> blah, For product support, contact the manufacturer for support" Jugume
>> replied "You will need to ask them to get you a retail copy as you will
>> get full technical support" I replied "I don't want tech support, just
>> get
>> the activation problem sorted" "I am afraid, I cant help to fix this
>> problem" was the only words Jugume could muster.
>>
>> Well there you have it. 1/10 for support from Microsoft. Could I try
>> wiping out Windows Vista and reinstalling again to see if this cure the
>> problem?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Boabyboy
>>
>>
>> "john" <john@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:ea8InSilHHA.1244@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> "Boabyboy" <:-(nospam@nothanks.com> wrote in message
>>> news:uLCHHnhlHHA.4644@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> I have Vista 64 Ultimate. I had no problems with the product until one
>>>> day there was an update from Microsoft Windows Update to update my
>>>> Nvidia SATA drivers which I did. Once I have rebooted the pc after the
>>>> update was completed, i noticed a small key icon asking me to
>>>> reactivated my copy of Vista. Now, I am confused? I tried to reactivate
>>>> the copy with the same key from my OEM disk but no joy as the program
>>>> is saying that the key is already in use. Well, yes that is correct
>>>> because i am using that key since i installed vista 2 months ago? What
>>>> is going on?
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone experience this type of problem before?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Boabyboy
>>>
>>> you're not alone - there are many posts here from people in the same
>>> boat, having to reactivate just because they ran Windows Update and
>>> updated a device driver.
>>>
>>> you'll have to call MS in order to reactivate.
>>>
>>> at least you can come away from all this with that warm & fuzzy feeling
>>> you get when you realize you're doing your part to stop software piracy,
>>> by continuously having to prove that you are not among them.
>>>
>>> ..and don't lose that reactivation hotline phone number, you're gonna
>>> need it, a lot.
>>>
>>> --
>>> =======================================
>>> "I know not a single less irrelevant reason for an update than bugfixes.
>>> The reasons for updates are to present more new features."
>>> -- Bill Gates, on code stability, from Focus Magazine
>>> =======================================
>>>
>>
>
>

*********************************************************************
Installing the SATA driver update will do this. Apparently when you reboot
the hard drive is seen in a totally new light and the operating system
thinks that it is being used on a different computer because of this.

I experienced the same problem - almost. In my case I was informed that my
system was no longer "genuine", yet I was not given the opportunity to
reactivate. The activation was good but the system failed to pass the WGA
test. I could not repair this condition.

Luckily, I had an image I created the day before using TrueImage HOME 10.0.
I was able to go back to before I allowed the update. After going back I
went to Windows Update and hid the offending update so I would not
inadvertently select it in the future.

Another case of "If it ain't broke - Don't fix it".

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

Umm, that's nothing new. It's been that way for all OEM versions for years,
dating back to Win98. I don't blame Microsoft for not wanting to provide a
spokesperson to once again answer questions that have been hashed and
rehashed numerous times over the past decade. Shame on APC for presenting
this as some new sensational change in policy, making it appear like new
news when it's old hat.

> But, what I dont agree is that Microsoft offering drivers updates that
> change the hardware hash key that forces vista to think that its is on a
> different PC.

Unrelated to the article's discussion of OEM limitations, it happens in
retail box sets as well, but I agree that this is an issue that needs to be
resolved. In the interim, the rather cumbersome phone activation method can
be employed to keep the system running properly.

> I have also found another interesting article on the internet is a hidden
> vista command called SkipReam which can prolonged the product activation
> time.

Not really hidden per se, but not really promoted either. That function
exists for network admins that need to temporarily delay activation due to
various business issues, such as having insufficient number of systems
running to activate a KMS server. And remember, the key term here is
"delay", it's not a means to bypass activation permanently.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

"Boabyboy" <:-(NoSpamPlease@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
news:OD3YXhFmHHA.4772@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Here is an interesting article I have found on the Internet about the OEM
> product activation issue:
>
> http://apcmag.com/6090/microsoft_we_...port_oem_vista :
> extracted shown below:
>
> Conventional wisdom holds that if you feel the urge to upgrade to Windows
> Vista, buying it pre-installed on a new machine is the best way to go. The
> advantages are allegedly twofold: there should be fresh and functional
> drivers for all the built-in hardware, and you get OEM pricing (much lower
> than the retail $400-$700 price range) for your new OS.
>
> That discount pricing comes with a nasty twist, however. Because you've
> purchased an OEM copy, Microsoft won't extend to you the courtesy of a
> 90-day support period for Vista, which it does offer to customers who
> struggle through the upgrade process on their existing machines. Instead,
> it will direct you straight back to your hardware manufacturer.
>
> If, however, the manufacturer decides that you have a software problem
> rather than defective hardware, it will send you straight back to
> Microsoft, which will demand a consulting fee (currently $80 for
> Australian users) to even think about the problem, and without offering
> anything approaching a guaranteed fix.
>
> In a characteristic fit of no comment, Microsoft declined to make a
> spokesperson available to discuss the issue of its support policy with
> APC. However, in a prepared statement, it offered the following minimal
> justification for its help-no-customers approach: "Microsoft makes
> versions of its software products available to manufacturers and system
> builders at prices which reflect the expectation that the OEM will provide
> the after-sales service, not Microsoft." Translation: we're not making
> enough money from you to make it worth our while to fix your OS problems.
>
> This is a breathtaking enough statement in its own right, but Microsoft
> also offered an interesting twist. "In most cases, the support provided by
> the OEM is as good, if not better than that provided by Microsoft because
> the OEM is familiar with the system hardware as well as the software."
> Translation: we don't know what our OEMs are installing, but we're
> certainly not going to take responsibility for it. And by the way, the
> quality of our own support is apparently open to question.
>
> What does this mean in practical terms? If you anticipate needing support
> for your Vista upgrade (and that certainly doesn't seem to be an uncommon
> scenario), you might be better off purchasing a full retail copy and
> claiming the free support. At $80 a pop, it won't be too long before you
> make your money back.
>
> *********************************************************************
> My response to the story:
>
> What absolute nonsense. Ok, I admit that the contract that all system
> builders that purchase OEM software are responsible for there own support.
> But, what I dont agree is that Microsoft offering drivers updates that
> change the hardware hash key that forces vista to think that its is on a
> different PC. I have also found another interesting article on the
> internet is a hidden vista command called SkipReam which can prolonged the
> product activation time. What do you think? I will contact Microsoft again
> soon for one last try to resolve this issue and many thanks to those who
> have replied to my posts. They were very helpful.
>
> *********************************************************************

<snip>