"MICHAEL" wrote:

>
>
> * Kevin Young:
> > "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
> > news:uBSnqrRpHHA.1148@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
> >> Yes that is a valid enough point, however the difference between "Any" of
> >> the recent attempts and Thunderbird, Knode and others is almost
> >> astronomical
> >>
> >> It seems like the storage / retrieval method is slow and also as if it's
> >> going off to do something else as well as reading the message headers.
> >> This is why I wondered if extra info like "Post Ratings" had anything to
> >> do with it.
> >>
> >> I'm like Michael I think, WLDM should have been the perfect answer for my
> >> preferences, OE was close. Instead it seems to have gone the opposite
> >> direction.
> >>
> > I have to agree. While performance has been improved in terms of switching
> > between accounts and messages, downloading newsgroup headers and marking a
> > group read lag way behind Thunderbird. Like you I also suspect that the
> > cause is the underlying file\record structure.
> >
> > It is almost as if someone made a design decision back in the switch to WM
> > and now won't face up to the fact even with significant feedback from users
> > saying otherwise that the new structure just isn't adequate. I suspect that
> > changing this structure would also add significant delays in getting a new
> > client to market so instead time and effort is being spent on effectively
> > tweaking the interface and features but continuing to build upon a flawed
> > foundation.
> >
> > I was hoping the delays on new beta releases of WLMd and then the
> > announcement of WLM was an indication that MS had recognized this and it
> > would be changed in WLM but that does not appear to be the case. A lot of
> > the changes between WLMd and WLM appear to be GUI related but just like
> > building a pretty house on a poor foundation the foundation will eventually
> > come back to haunt you.
> >
> > Having moved to Vista, OE is no longer an option for me. While I'm positive
> > with the progress being made on the look of WLM the separation of newsgroups
> > from my other accounts and the performance concerns referenced will make it
> > very difficult for me to settle on WLM as an OE replacement. If I end up
> > moving to Thunderbird full time I will also likely ditch my MSN\Hotmail
> > accounts due to the lack of HTTP access in that product and move more to my
> > IMAP account.
> >
> > At present MS does not seem to have an efficient NNTP newsgroup solution for
> > Vista users so I sure hope they listen and make the changes needed. I'm
> > sure these changes will be difficult and delay release of the final product
> > but I know if these changes are not made I will have no choice but to move
> > to a different reader.
>
> Sorry for the late reply, but you are spot on in your observations.
> Especially, this;
>
> <quote>
> so instead time and effort is being spent on effectively
> tweaking the interface and features but continuing to build upon a flawed
> foundation.
> </quote>
>
> I absolutely agree. I remain hopeful, but doubtful things will change.
>
>
> -Michael
>



Okay, I know I come in a bit late on this thread, and as a member of the
bulk of "askers" who post on these newsgroup via the web, i want to say a few
things:
* its great that the "answerers" of these newsgroups continue with the
ultruistic answering and sharing of knowledge
* it seems reminiscing about the old things are not just confined to
childhood memories, but also extends to programs (e.g. Outlook Express)
* As a novice user eager on new technology, I also tried Windows Live Mail,
and found it to slow my system (or it might have just been coincidence)
* its been interesting to know that if I wish to go back to reading
newsgroups, not just MS help ones such as this, but also academic ones, that
there is this program called Thunderbird, but...
* why the heck is this extensive debate on Windows Live Mail, quoting of
some Jim Glass, Microsoft Personnel urging Michael to continue contributing
etc... being held in the newsgroup which is for Windows Live MESSENGER?!?!
*stares*

Now after 15 minutes of interesting exchange (but detour nonetheless), I
would like to re-exercise my "asker" role by asking - where can I involved in
Windows Live Messenger 8.5 beta testing?

Thanks in advance,
Jason.

* Jason Insearching1977:
> * its been interesting to know that if I wish to go back to reading
> newsgroups, not just MS help ones such as this, but also academic ones, that
> there is this program called Thunderbird, but...
> * why the heck is this extensive debate on Windows Live Mail, quoting of
> some Jim Glass, Microsoft Personnel urging Michael to continue contributing
> etc... being held in the newsgroup which is for Windows Live MESSENGER?!?!
> *stares*

> Now after 15 minutes of interesting exchange (but detour nonetheless), I
> would like to re-exercise my "asker" role by asking - where can I involved in
> Windows Live Messenger 8.5 beta testing?

http://get.live.com/betas/home


-Michael

Thank you Michael. I would use 'thunderbirds' to reply if google search
didn't go to those wooden puppets all the time!!!

"MICHAEL" wrote:

> * Jason Insearching1977:
> > * its been interesting to know that if I wish to go back to reading
> > newsgroups, not just MS help ones such as this, but also academic ones, that
> > there is this program called Thunderbird, but...
> > * why the heck is this extensive debate on Windows Live Mail, quoting of
> > some Jim Glass, Microsoft Personnel urging Michael to continue contributing
> > etc... being held in the newsgroup which is for Windows Live MESSENGER?!?!
> > *stares*
>
> > Now after 15 minutes of interesting exchange (but detour nonetheless), I
> > would like to re-exercise my "asker" role by asking - where can I involved in
> > Windows Live Messenger 8.5 beta testing?
>
> http://get.live.com/betas/home
>
>
> -Michael
>

"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote:

> Michael
>
> WLM is still a beta product. If you know what you want it to do or look like
> when it's released, use it and suggest changes that you feel would make it
> better. You could make a difference.
>
> Windows Live Mail: Windows Live Mail Beta now available for download!:
> http://morethanmail.spaces.live.com/...9A1!3459.entry
>
>
> --
>
> Ronnie Vernon
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "MICHAEL" <u158627_emr2@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:%23yjQfJzoHHA.4424@xxxxxx

> > This will be my first and last post with the
> > "new" Windows Live Mail.
> > *Some* improvement, but it still wants to choke
> > on newsgroups and there's no customizing the toolbar. Since I use Outlook
> > for email, not using
> > this is no big deal. Windows Mail was awful before
> > and Windows Live Mail blows a little less. I'll stick
> > with Thunderbird for newsgroups.
> >
> > I expected better. Oh well.
> >
> >
> > -Michael
> >
> > "Tiberius" <James@xxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:#EAfu6xoHHA.588@xxxxxx

> >> http://www.activewin.com/awin/commen...ineIndex=39504
> >>
> >> Microsoft has released new betas for Windows Live Messenger (8.5 Beta 1),
> >> Windows Live Mail (Beta 1), and Windows Live Writer (Beta 2). The Windows
> >> Messenger blog (linked in the headline) offers an overview of what's new
> >> in each product. In-depth views of Windows Live Mail and Windows Live
> >> Writer are available on their respective blogs.

> >

>