Vista - Managing system backups in Windows Vista using backup & restore

I am running Windows Vista Business Edition, and I have a question concerning
how to manage system backups in Windows Vista using the newly redesigned
backup program.

Before I continue, let me state that I am an IT professional, and am
familiar with a variety of 3rd party backup programs. I have specific
reasons for wanting to use the built-in Vista backup & restore program for a
variety of reasons that are not relevant to this topic.

Now – as I understand it, there are two different types of backup supported
in the redesigned Vista backup program as follows...

* Complete PC Backup
* Back Up Files

It is my understanding that a complete PC backup essentially allows for a
“bare metal restore� of a system. That is to say, I should be able to
completely restore my system without having to install and configure Vista
first – an attractive proposition. This type of backup however obviously
takes up the most time and disk space.

The “Back Up Files� method by contrast will not allow for a complete system
recovery, but is quicker and takes less disk space than a complete PC backup.

After reviewing a number of sources, it would appear that a useful strategy
might be to run a complete PC backup perhaps every two (2) months, and then
run a file-based backup weekly. The backup event times (every 2 months &
weekly) are just arbitrarily picked for discussion purposes.

Assuming I adopt such a strategy, how can I manage the data in the long term
once backups are complete? In other words, let’s assume that I adopt said
strategy, and that I saved this data to an external drive for a period of ½
year. I should now have three (3) complete system backups, and somewhere in
the neighborhood of 20 weekly backups.

Question:

Is there a function within the Backup / Restore program that allows me to
purge older backups gracefully (as the older Windows XP backup program has),
or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the backup drive by the
relevant dates?

Your assistance is appreciated...

Regarding your statement"..to completely restore my system without having to
install and configure Vista first - "

Complete PC Backup is an image backup as is Acronis and does not backup free
space, also compresses the backup.

Complete PC Backup is restored via booting the Vista DVD and selecting the
restore option on the "Startup Repair" menu.. The repair option is not
available if a current installation of Vista is not detected.

Individual files cannot be restored from the Complete PC backup and files to
be restored from the file backups must be from within Vista.

File backups can be done automatically - Complete PC bacup manually.
Complete PC Backups do not create multiple backup folders - after the
initial Comple Backup subsequent backups only backup changes since the first
full backup.

"RichG" <RichG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C2115D26-910A-4A45-8EEC-F57E356A7113@microsoft.com...
>I am running Windows Vista Business Edition, and I have a question
>concerning
> how to manage system backups in Windows Vista using the newly redesigned
> backup program.
>
> Before I continue, let me state that I am an IT professional, and am
> familiar with a variety of 3rd party backup programs. I have specific
> reasons for wanting to use the built-in Vista backup & restore program for
> a
> variety of reasons that are not relevant to this topic.
>
> Now - as I understand it, there are two different types of backup
> supported
> in the redesigned Vista backup program as follows...
>
> * Complete PC Backup
> * Back Up Files
>
> It is my understanding that a complete PC backup essentially allows for a
> "bare metal restore" of a system. That is to say, I should be able to
> completely restore my system without having to install and configure Vista
> first - an attractive proposition. This type of backup however obviously
> takes up the most time and disk space.
>
> The "Back Up Files" method by contrast will not allow for a complete
> system
> recovery, but is quicker and takes less disk space than a complete PC
> backup.
>
> After reviewing a number of sources, it would appear that a useful
> strategy
> might be to run a complete PC backup perhaps every two (2) months, and
> then
> run a file-based backup weekly. The backup event times (every 2 months &
> weekly) are just arbitrarily picked for discussion purposes.
>
> Assuming I adopt such a strategy, how can I manage the data in the long
> term
> once backups are complete? In other words, let's assume that I adopt said
> strategy, and that I saved this data to an external drive for a period of
> ½
> year. I should now have three (3) complete system backups, and somewhere
> in
> the neighborhood of 20 weekly backups.
>
> Question:
>
> Is there a function within the Backup / Restore program that allows me to
> purge older backups gracefully (as the older Windows XP backup program
> has),
> or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the backup drive by the
> relevant dates?
>
> Your assistance is appreciated...

The addition of imaging in Vista is a step forward, but still leaves
much to be desired. I cannot live with the inability to define and
schedule multiple backup jobs or, as you detail, manage previous
backups.

My solution for Vista Ultimate was the newly-released, Vista-compatible
Norton Save & Restore 2.0, which offers the imaging of Ghost as well as
traditional directory and file backup. I was pleased with version 1.0
on XP and its more user-friendly interface than Ghost.

As a retired IT professional, I, like you, could not make Vista backup
function as one would assume a "Business" version should.

FWIW.


"RichG" <RichG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C2115D26-910A-4A45-8EEC-F57E356A7113@microsoft.com...
>I am running Windows Vista Business Edition, and I have a question
>concerning
> how to manage system backups in Windows Vista using the newly
> redesigned
> backup program.
>
> Before I continue, let me state that I am an IT professional, and am
> familiar with a variety of 3rd party backup programs. I have specific
> reasons for wanting to use the built-in Vista backup & restore program
> for a
> variety of reasons that are not relevant to this topic.
>
> Now – as I understand it, there are two different types of backup
> supported
> in the redesigned Vista backup program as follows...
>
> * Complete PC Backup
> * Back Up Files
>
> It is my understanding that a complete PC backup essentially allows
> for a
> “bare metal restore� of a system. That is to say, I should be able to
> completely restore my system without having to install and configure
> Vista
> first – an attractive proposition. This type of backup however
> obviously
> takes up the most time and disk space.
>
> The “Back Up Files� method by contrast will not allow for a complete
> system
> recovery, but is quicker and takes less disk space than a complete PC
> backup.
>
> After reviewing a number of sources, it would appear that a useful
> strategy
> might be to run a complete PC backup perhaps every two (2) months, and
> then
> run a file-based backup weekly. The backup event times (every 2
> months &
> weekly) are just arbitrarily picked for discussion purposes.
>
> Assuming I adopt such a strategy, how can I manage the data in the
> long term
> once backups are complete? In other words, let’s assume that I adopt
> said
> strategy, and that I saved this data to an external drive for a period
> of ½
> year. I should now have three (3) complete system backups, and
> somewhere in
> the neighborhood of 20 weekly backups.
>
> Question:
>
> Is there a function within the Backup / Restore program that allows me
> to
> purge older backups gracefully (as the older Windows XP backup program
> has),
> or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the backup drive by
> the
> relevant dates?
>
> Your assistance is appreciated...

One thing to keep in mind about Complete PC Backups stored on hard
disks--only the most recent backup is stored as a .vhd. The previous backups
are incremental backups stored as shadow copies. Although this helps you
save disk space, you don't have any guarantee that those previous
incrementals will be there on any given day. The oldest are purged to make
more room for newer incrementals. Increasing your storage area size would
theoretically help here (the default is 30% of the target) BUT I believe
there is a bug that causes whateever limit you set to revert back to 30%
when you take another backup. For this reason, you might want to store an
occasional Complete PC Backup on DVD, which is always a full .vhd.

To answer your question about deleting old backups--there is no graceful way
to do this short of deleting the backup folders. We've gotten lots of
feedback about this (and lots of questions).

--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.


"RichG" <RichG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C2115D26-910A-4A45-8EEC-F57E356A7113@microsoft.com...
>I am running Windows Vista Business Edition, and I have a question
>concerning
> how to manage system backups in Windows Vista using the newly redesigned
> backup program.
>
> Before I continue, let me state that I am an IT professional, and am
> familiar with a variety of 3rd party backup programs. I have specific
> reasons for wanting to use the built-in Vista backup & restore program for
> a
> variety of reasons that are not relevant to this topic.
>
> Now – as I understand it, there are two different types of backup
> supported
> in the redesigned Vista backup program as follows...
>
> * Complete PC Backup
> * Back Up Files
>
> It is my understanding that a complete PC backup essentially allows for a
> “bare metal restore� of a system. That is to say, I should be able to
> completely restore my system without having to install and configure Vista
> first – an attractive proposition. This type of backup however obviously
> takes up the most time and disk space.
>
> The “Back Up Files� method by contrast will not allow for a complete
> system
> recovery, but is quicker and takes less disk space than a complete PC
> backup.
>
> After reviewing a number of sources, it would appear that a useful
> strategy
> might be to run a complete PC backup perhaps every two (2) months, and
> then
> run a file-based backup weekly. The backup event times (every 2 months &
> weekly) are just arbitrarily picked for discussion purposes.
>
> Assuming I adopt such a strategy, how can I manage the data in the long
> term
> once backups are complete? In other words, let’s assume that I adopt said
> strategy, and that I saved this data to an external drive for a period of
> ½
> year. I should now have three (3) complete system backups, and somewhere
> in
> the neighborhood of 20 weekly backups.
>
> Question:
>
> Is there a function within the Backup / Restore program that allows me to
> purge older backups gracefully (as the older Windows XP backup program
> has),
> or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the backup drive by the
> relevant dates?
>
> Your assistance is appreciated...

AJR:

With respect to your reply about a complete backup being manual, and file
backup able to be automated - I am aware of that and agree.

However, my question remains unanswered...is there a function within the
Backup / Restore program that allows me to purge older backups gracefully (as
the older Windows XP backup program has), or do I simply delete the
appropriate folders on the backup drive by the relevant dates / folders?



--
RichG


"AJR" wrote:

> Regarding your statement"..to completely restore my system without having to
> install and configure Vista first - "
>
> Complete PC Backup is an image backup as is Acronis and does not backup free
> space, also compresses the backup.
>
> Complete PC Backup is restored via booting the Vista DVD and selecting the
> restore option on the "Startup Repair" menu.. The repair option is not
> available if a current installation of Vista is not detected.
>
> Individual files cannot be restored from the Complete PC backup and files to
> be restored from the file backups must be from within Vista.
>
> File backups can be done automatically - Complete PC bacup manually.
> Complete PC Backups do not create multiple backup folders - after the
> initial Comple Backup subsequent backups only backup changes since the first
> full backup.
>
> "RichG" <RichG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:C2115D26-910A-4A45-8EEC-F57E356A7113@microsoft.com...
> >I am running Windows Vista Business Edition, and I have a question
> >concerning
> > how to manage system backups in Windows Vista using the newly redesigned
> > backup program.
> >
> > Before I continue, let me state that I am an IT professional, and am
> > familiar with a variety of 3rd party backup programs. I have specific
> > reasons for wanting to use the built-in Vista backup & restore program for
> > a
> > variety of reasons that are not relevant to this topic.
> >
> > Now - as I understand it, there are two different types of backup
> > supported
> > in the redesigned Vista backup program as follows...
> >
> > * Complete PC Backup
> > * Back Up Files
> >
> > It is my understanding that a complete PC backup essentially allows for a
> > "bare metal restore" of a system. That is to say, I should be able to
> > completely restore my system without having to install and configure Vista
> > first - an attractive proposition. This type of backup however obviously
> > takes up the most time and disk space.
> >
> > The "Back Up Files" method by contrast will not allow for a complete
> > system
> > recovery, but is quicker and takes less disk space than a complete PC
> > backup.
> >
> > After reviewing a number of sources, it would appear that a useful
> > strategy
> > might be to run a complete PC backup perhaps every two (2) months, and
> > then
> > run a file-based backup weekly. The backup event times (every 2 months &
> > weekly) are just arbitrarily picked for discussion purposes.
> >
> > Assuming I adopt such a strategy, how can I manage the data in the long
> > term
> > once backups are complete? In other words, let's assume that I adopt said
> > strategy, and that I saved this data to an external drive for a period of
> > ½
> > year. I should now have three (3) complete system backups, and somewhere
> > in
> > the neighborhood of 20 weekly backups.
> >
> > Question:
> >
> > Is there a function within the Backup / Restore program that allows me to
> > purge older backups gracefully (as the older Windows XP backup program
> > has),
> > or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the backup drive by the
> > relevant dates?
> >
> > Your assistance is appreciated...
>
>
>

From your last post "...or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the
backup drive by the relevant dates / folders?..."

From my previous post "...Complete PC Backups do not create multiple backup
folders ...".

"RichG" <RichG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3855D43E-B23F-4564-980F-5D48A53011E5@microsoft.com...
> AJR:
>
> With respect to your reply about a complete backup being manual, and file
> backup able to be automated - I am aware of that and agree.
>
> However, my question remains unanswered...is there a function within the
> Backup / Restore program that allows me to purge older backups gracefully
> (as
> the older Windows XP backup program has), or do I simply delete the
> appropriate folders on the backup drive by the relevant dates / folders?
>
>
>
> --
> RichG
>
>
> "AJR" wrote:
>
>> Regarding your statement"..to completely restore my system without having
>> to
>> install and configure Vista first - "
>>
>> Complete PC Backup is an image backup as is Acronis and does not backup
>> free
>> space, also compresses the backup.
>>
>> Complete PC Backup is restored via booting the Vista DVD and selecting
>> the
>> restore option on the "Startup Repair" menu.. The repair option is not
>> available if a current installation of Vista is not detected.
>>
>> Individual files cannot be restored from the Complete PC backup and files
>> to
>> be restored from the file backups must be from within Vista.
>>
>> File backups can be done automatically - Complete PC bacup manually.
>> Complete PC Backups do not create multiple backup folders - after the
>> initial Comple Backup subsequent backups only backup changes since the
>> first
>> full backup.
>>
>> "RichG" <RichG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:C2115D26-910A-4A45-8EEC-F57E356A7113@microsoft.com...
>> >I am running Windows Vista Business Edition, and I have a question
>> >concerning
>> > how to manage system backups in Windows Vista using the newly
>> > redesigned
>> > backup program.
>> >
>> > Before I continue, let me state that I am an IT professional, and am
>> > familiar with a variety of 3rd party backup programs. I have specific
>> > reasons for wanting to use the built-in Vista backup & restore program
>> > for
>> > a
>> > variety of reasons that are not relevant to this topic.
>> >
>> > Now - as I understand it, there are two different types of backup
>> > supported
>> > in the redesigned Vista backup program as follows...
>> >
>> > * Complete PC Backup
>> > * Back Up Files
>> >
>> > It is my understanding that a complete PC backup essentially allows for
>> > a
>> > "bare metal restore" of a system. That is to say, I should be able to
>> > completely restore my system without having to install and configure
>> > Vista
>> > first - an attractive proposition. This type of backup however
>> > obviously
>> > takes up the most time and disk space.
>> >
>> > The "Back Up Files" method by contrast will not allow for a complete
>> > system
>> > recovery, but is quicker and takes less disk space than a complete PC
>> > backup.
>> >
>> > After reviewing a number of sources, it would appear that a useful
>> > strategy
>> > might be to run a complete PC backup perhaps every two (2) months, and
>> > then
>> > run a file-based backup weekly. The backup event times (every 2 months
>> > &
>> > weekly) are just arbitrarily picked for discussion purposes.
>> >
>> > Assuming I adopt such a strategy, how can I manage the data in the long
>> > term
>> > once backups are complete? In other words, let's assume that I adopt
>> > said
>> > strategy, and that I saved this data to an external drive for a period
>> > of
>> > ½
>> > year. I should now have three (3) complete system backups, and
>> > somewhere
>> > in
>> > the neighborhood of 20 weekly backups.
>> >
>> > Question:
>> >
>> > Is there a function within the Backup / Restore program that allows me
>> > to
>> > purge older backups gracefully (as the older Windows XP backup program
>> > has),
>> > or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the backup drive by
>> > the
>> > relevant dates?
>> >
>> > Your assistance is appreciated...
>>
>>
>>

AJR:

Yes - I understand that a Complete PC Backup does not make multiple folders,
but I did mention that I should also have appriximately 20 weekly backups
ALSO. It is this I am referring to when I am asking about a function to
purge.

I am asking if there is a function to help manage this FILE BACKUP data, or
simply delete the folder structure based on date. I was concerned that
simply deleting the folders by date might have a negative side-effect such as
invalid indexes.

Thank you for your help.
--
RichG


"AJR" wrote:

> From your last post "...or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the
> backup drive by the relevant dates / folders?..."
>
> From my previous post "...Complete PC Backups do not create multiple backup
> folders ...".
>
> "RichG" <RichG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:3855D43E-B23F-4564-980F-5D48A53011E5@microsoft.com...
> > AJR:
> >
> > With respect to your reply about a complete backup being manual, and file
> > backup able to be automated - I am aware of that and agree.
> >
> > However, my question remains unanswered...is there a function within the
> > Backup / Restore program that allows me to purge older backups gracefully
> > (as
> > the older Windows XP backup program has), or do I simply delete the
> > appropriate folders on the backup drive by the relevant dates / folders?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > RichG
> >
> >
> > "AJR" wrote:
> >
> >> Regarding your statement"..to completely restore my system without having
> >> to
> >> install and configure Vista first - "
> >>
> >> Complete PC Backup is an image backup as is Acronis and does not backup
> >> free
> >> space, also compresses the backup.
> >>
> >> Complete PC Backup is restored via booting the Vista DVD and selecting
> >> the
> >> restore option on the "Startup Repair" menu.. The repair option is not
> >> available if a current installation of Vista is not detected.
> >>
> >> Individual files cannot be restored from the Complete PC backup and files
> >> to
> >> be restored from the file backups must be from within Vista.
> >>
> >> File backups can be done automatically - Complete PC bacup manually.
> >> Complete PC Backups do not create multiple backup folders - after the
> >> initial Comple Backup subsequent backups only backup changes since the
> >> first
> >> full backup.
> >>
> >> "RichG" <RichG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:C2115D26-910A-4A45-8EEC-F57E356A7113@microsoft.com...
> >> >I am running Windows Vista Business Edition, and I have a question
> >> >concerning
> >> > how to manage system backups in Windows Vista using the newly
> >> > redesigned
> >> > backup program.
> >> >
> >> > Before I continue, let me state that I am an IT professional, and am
> >> > familiar with a variety of 3rd party backup programs. I have specific
> >> > reasons for wanting to use the built-in Vista backup & restore program
> >> > for
> >> > a
> >> > variety of reasons that are not relevant to this topic.
> >> >
> >> > Now - as I understand it, there are two different types of backup
> >> > supported
> >> > in the redesigned Vista backup program as follows...
> >> >
> >> > * Complete PC Backup
> >> > * Back Up Files
> >> >
> >> > It is my understanding that a complete PC backup essentially allows for
> >> > a
> >> > "bare metal restore" of a system. That is to say, I should be able to
> >> > completely restore my system without having to install and configure
> >> > Vista
> >> > first - an attractive proposition. This type of backup however
> >> > obviously
> >> > takes up the most time and disk space.
> >> >
> >> > The "Back Up Files" method by contrast will not allow for a complete
> >> > system
> >> > recovery, but is quicker and takes less disk space than a complete PC
> >> > backup.
> >> >
> >> > After reviewing a number of sources, it would appear that a useful
> >> > strategy
> >> > might be to run a complete PC backup perhaps every two (2) months, and
> >> > then
> >> > run a file-based backup weekly. The backup event times (every 2 months
> >> > &
> >> > weekly) are just arbitrarily picked for discussion purposes.
> >> >
> >> > Assuming I adopt such a strategy, how can I manage the data in the long
> >> > term
> >> > once backups are complete? In other words, let's assume that I adopt
> >> > said
> >> > strategy, and that I saved this data to an external drive for a period
> >> > of
> >> > ½
> >> > year. I should now have three (3) complete system backups, and
> >> > somewhere
> >> > in
> >> > the neighborhood of 20 weekly backups.
> >> >
> >> > Question:
> >> >
> >> > Is there a function within the Backup / Restore program that allows me
> >> > to
> >> > purge older backups gracefully (as the older Windows XP backup program
> >> > has),
> >> > or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the backup drive by
> >> > the
> >> > relevant dates?
> >> >
> >> > Your assistance is appreciated...
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>

I'm not 100% sure of what backup folders it's safe to delete. I'm backing up
every day automatically and quickly filling up my external drive.

I have two "Backup-set" folders on the drive. (For some reason - after my
PC was not used for a week - I seemed to get a new backup set created and it
ran a full backup.

Within each backup-set, I have dated folders for 'backup files' and
'catalogue'.

Can I safely delete old backup files, or will that render the whole
back-up-set useless for restoring from?

What about the 'catalogue' folder. What's it for? Does it take much space?
Can it be deleted?

Thanks





"Jill Zoeller [MSFT]" wrote:

> One thing to keep in mind about Complete PC Backups stored on hard
> disks--only the most recent backup is stored as a .vhd. The previous backups
> are incremental backups stored as shadow copies. Although this helps you
> save disk space, you don't have any guarantee that those previous
> incrementals will be there on any given day. The oldest are purged to make
> more room for newer incrementals. Increasing your storage area size would
> theoretically help here (the default is 30% of the target) BUT I believe
> there is a bug that causes whateever limit you set to revert back to 30%
> when you take another backup. For this reason, you might want to store an
> occasional Complete PC Backup on DVD, which is always a full .vhd.
>
> To answer your question about deleting old backups--there is no graceful way
> to do this short of deleting the backup folders. We've gotten lots of
> feedback about this (and lots of questions).
>
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
>
> Want to learn more about Windows file and storage technologies? Visit our
> team blog at http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.
>
>
> "RichG" <RichG@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:C2115D26-910A-4A45-8EEC-F57E356A7113@microsoft.com...
> >I am running Windows Vista Business Edition, and I have a question
> >concerning
> > how to manage system backups in Windows Vista using the newly redesigned
> > backup program.
> >
> > Before I continue, let me state that I am an IT professional, and am
> > familiar with a variety of 3rd party backup programs. I have specific
> > reasons for wanting to use the built-in Vista backup & restore program for
> > a
> > variety of reasons that are not relevant to this topic.
> >
> > Now – as I understand it, there are two different types of backup
> > supported
> > in the redesigned Vista backup program as follows...
> >
> > * Complete PC Backup
> > * Back Up Files
> >
> > It is my understanding that a complete PC backup essentially allows for a
> > “bare metal restore� of a system. That is to say, I should be able to
> > completely restore my system without having to install and configure Vista
> > first – an attractive proposition. This type of backup however obviously
> > takes up the most time and disk space.
> >
> > The “Back Up Files� method by contrast will not allow for a complete
> > system
> > recovery, but is quicker and takes less disk space than a complete PC
> > backup.
> >
> > After reviewing a number of sources, it would appear that a useful
> > strategy
> > might be to run a complete PC backup perhaps every two (2) months, and
> > then
> > run a file-based backup weekly. The backup event times (every 2 months &
> > weekly) are just arbitrarily picked for discussion purposes.
> >
> > Assuming I adopt such a strategy, how can I manage the data in the long
> > term
> > once backups are complete? In other words, let’s assume that I adopt said
> > strategy, and that I saved this data to an external drive for a period of
> > ½
> > year. I should now have three (3) complete system backups, and somewhere
> > in
> > the neighborhood of 20 weekly backups.
> >
> > Question:
> >
> > Is there a function within the Backup / Restore program that allows me to
> > purge older backups gracefully (as the older Windows XP backup program
> > has),
> > or do I simply delete the appropriate folders on the backup drive by the
> > relevant dates?
> >
> > Your assistance is appreciated...
>
>