Vista - Moving "Documents" to encrypted drive (worked in XP)

Hi,

On Windows XP I used TrueCrypt to create and mounts an encrypted drive on
my disk where I kept "My Documents" for security reasons. This virtual
encrypted disk got mounted during log-in to Windows. I had to enter a
password and "My Documents" were available.

I am now trying to do the same on Windows Vista. I can greate the encrypted
drive without proble. I am also able to move the "Documents" folder there
using the location setting, very similar to what I did on XP. It works
until I reboot. After I log in again the encrypted drive is mounted,
there's a "Documents" folder on the encrypted drive, but there's no
/Users/MyAccount/Documents anymore. I am not able to reach "Documents" from
the Start Menu either. If I move it back to default location everything
works fine again.

To me it seems like Vista deletes the special "Documents" folder if it
can't find the target until late during boot for some reason. It's very
different from how it worked on XP where if I did not mount the encrypted
drive I just got a message that "My Documents" isn't available if I clicked
on the "My Documents" icon or tried to access it from the Start Menu,

It's really amazing how the whole special folder concept has been flaky
since Windows 95! Now with Vista it has changed again, and still people
complauin about special folders getting lost and about how to restore the
icons and functionality for them. It's actually gotten worse in Vista!

In addition this problem with being able to move the folders to a drive
which isn't mounted at boot. I also tried to move "Documents" to a USB
drive. Same problem. If the drive isn't mounted at boot the "Documents"
folder vanishes. I have to either do the "shellersonal" thing or a system
restore to get it back.

Anyone here have any idea how I could go about keeping my "Docments" folder
for a location that isn't mounted at log-in, or do I simply have to give up
on the special Documents folder and save my sensitive stuff in a generic
folder on the encrypted drive?

I do actually like Vista a lot, so I am hoping these things will be ironed
out. But looking at how the special folder thing has been addressed in the
past doesn't give me a lot of hope in this regard. Look at how OS 10 has
this down rock solid. It shouldn't be that complicated!

--
//ceed

I find it incredible that people want to move the My Documents when this is
and always has been a special Windows folder. Why not make and name your
special folder something else and mount it and make an icon for it.



--
Ian

"ceed" <ceed.spameater@dysthe.net> wrote in message
news:1qnxl40t33vb6$.1hiqra6pb4lqu.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> Hi,
>
> On Windows XP I used TrueCrypt to create and mounts an encrypted drive on
> my disk where I kept "My Documents" for security reasons. This virtual
> encrypted disk got mounted during log-in to Windows. I had to enter a
> password and "My Documents" were available.
>
> I am now trying to do the same on Windows Vista. I can greate the
> encrypted
> drive without proble. I am also able to move the "Documents" folder there
> using the location setting, very similar to what I did on XP. It works
> until I reboot. After I log in again the encrypted drive is mounted,
> there's a "Documents" folder on the encrypted drive, but there's no
> /Users/MyAccount/Documents anymore. I am not able to reach "Documents"
> from
> the Start Menu either. If I move it back to default location everything
> works fine again.
>
> To me it seems like Vista deletes the special "Documents" folder if it
> can't find the target until late during boot for some reason. It's very
> different from how it worked on XP where if I did not mount the encrypted
> drive I just got a message that "My Documents" isn't available if I
> clicked
> on the "My Documents" icon or tried to access it from the Start Menu,
>
> It's really amazing how the whole special folder concept has been flaky
> since Windows 95! Now with Vista it has changed again, and still people
> complauin about special folders getting lost and about how to restore the
> icons and functionality for them. It's actually gotten worse in Vista!
>
> In addition this problem with being able to move the folders to a drive
> which isn't mounted at boot. I also tried to move "Documents" to a USB
> drive. Same problem. If the drive isn't mounted at boot the "Documents"
> folder vanishes. I have to either do the "shellersonal" thing or a
> system
> restore to get it back.
>
> Anyone here have any idea how I could go about keeping my "Docments"
> folder
> for a location that isn't mounted at log-in, or do I simply have to give
> up
> on the special Documents folder and save my sensitive stuff in a generic
> folder on the encrypted drive?
>
> I do actually like Vista a lot, so I am hoping these things will be ironed
> out. But looking at how the special folder thing has been addressed in the
> past doesn't give me a lot of hope in this regard. Look at how OS 10 has
> this down rock solid. It shouldn't be that complicated!
>
> --
> //ceed
>

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:14:54 +0100, Ian Betts wrote:

> I find it incredible that people want to move the My Documents when this is
> and always has been a special Windows folder. Why not make and name your
> special folder something else and mount it and make an icon for it.

What you find incredible is not very interesting to me. The special folders
in Windows have had, and currently have, the option to move their location.
It's been like that for years. You may not have noticed though.

Didn't you read my post? I NEED to move it to an encrypted volume for
security reasona, and the "Documents" folder has an option for moving it's
location. I also said I could just move all my documents to a folder on the
encrypted disk, but then it's harder to access them from my home folder and
start meny. All I ask is why something that used to work in XP maybe also
could end up working in XP. Yeah, that's incredible isn't it?

You are not being very helpful, and your suggestion doesn't make sense at
all. Did you actually understand what I was asking about at all?

--
//ceed

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:29:47 -0500, ceed <ceed.spameater@dysthe.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:14:54 +0100, Ian Betts wrote:
>
>> I find it incredible that people want to move the My Documents when this is
>> and always has been a special Windows folder. Why not make and name your
>> special folder something else and mount it and make an icon for it.
>
>What you find incredible is not very interesting to me. The special folders
>in Windows have had, and currently have, the option to move their location.
>It's been like that for years. You may not have noticed though.
>
>Didn't you read my post? I NEED to move it to an encrypted volume for
>security reasona, and the "Documents" folder has an option for moving it's
>location. I also said I could just move all my documents to a folder on the
>encrypted disk, but then it's harder to access them from my home folder and
>start meny. All I ask is why something that used to work in XP maybe also
>could end up working in XP. Yeah, that's incredible isn't it?
>
>You are not being very helpful, and your suggestion doesn't make sense at
>all. Did you actually understand what I was asking about at all?

If you literally want to move the documents folder and it's contents,
just right click on it, properties, location tab, change the path,
then click move.

I'll assume you know that once files are encrypted you take
precautions NOT to move them off the encrypted disk BEFORE you un
crypt them otherwise you won't likely be able to access them.

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:18:54 -0500, Adam Albright wrote:


>
> If you literally want to move the documents folder and it's contents,
> just right click on it, properties, location tab, change the path,
> then click move.
>
> I'll assume you know that once files are encrypted you take
> precautions NOT to move them off the encrypted disk BEFORE you un
> crypt them otherwise you won't likely be able to access them.

I know how to move "Documents". The problem is that the "Documents" folder
icon in my user account disappears after next boot unless I am really quick
mounting the encrypted drive. On XP it didn't matter if the files in "My
Documents" were accessible or not, on Vista it does for some reason.

I know the encryption software I use (TrueCrypt) very well since I have
used it for years, first on Win2K and the on XP. It's a great piece of free
software for creating encrypted volumes or even whole encrypted partitions.
For me the main reason to encrypt is that the files should not be
accessible if my laptop gets stolen. I do not need to hide them while I am
logged in. With TrueCrypt I can work with files totally seamlessly and move
them off and on the encrypted volume or partition without any extra
precautions at all. When I turn my computer off the files are both
inaccessible and invisible if someone other than me should get access to my
laptop. On Vista I can't use it the way I am used to since moving
"Documents" to a drive that gets mounted late in the boot process makes
Vista think the files do not exist and delete the "Documents" icon in my
user folder.


--
//ceed

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 23:11:24 -0500, ceed <ceed.spameater@dysthe.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:18:54 -0500, Adam Albright wrote:
>
>
>>
>> If you literally want to move the documents folder and it's contents,
>> just right click on it, properties, location tab, change the path,
>> then click move.
>>
>> I'll assume you know that once files are encrypted you take
>> precautions NOT to move them off the encrypted disk BEFORE you un
>> crypt them otherwise you won't likely be able to access them.
>
>I know how to move "Documents". The problem is that the "Documents" folder
>icon in my user account disappears after next boot unless I am really quick
>mounting the encrypted drive. On XP it didn't matter if the files in "My
>Documents" were accessible or not, on Vista it does for some reason.
>
>I know the encryption software I use (TrueCrypt) very well since I have
>used it for years, first on Win2K and the on XP. It's a great piece of free
>software for creating encrypted volumes or even whole encrypted partitions.
>For me the main reason to encrypt is that the files should not be
>accessible if my laptop gets stolen. I do not need to hide them while I am
>logged in. With TrueCrypt I can work with files totally seamlessly and move
>them off and on the encrypted volume or partition without any extra
>precautions at all. When I turn my computer off the files are both
>inaccessible and invisible if someone other than me should get access to my
>laptop. On Vista I can't use it the way I am used to since moving
>"Documents" to a drive that gets mounted late in the boot process makes
>Vista think the files do not exist and delete the "Documents" icon in my
>user folder.

Sounds like a problem with TrueCrypt not Vista. I've used all kinds of
encryption software over the years and use lots of external drives now
that get mounted late, sometimes hours after I boot. Neither should
effect what Vista "sees" at all.

Assuming you boot into Vista, regardless what you mount should AFTER
the drive is mounted encrypted or not cause a window to pop up giving
you options on what you want to do with the drive's contents.

I'm not familiar with TrueCrypt, I'm guessing you enter a password to
mount a drive right? If so, explain what happens next step by step.

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:02:34 -0500, Adam Albright wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 23:11:24 -0500, ceed <ceed.spameater@dysthe.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:18:54 -0500, Adam Albright wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> If you literally want to move the documents folder and it's contents,
>>> just right click on it, properties, location tab, change the path,
>>> then click move.
>>>
>>> I'll assume you know that once files are encrypted you take
>>> precautions NOT to move them off the encrypted disk BEFORE you un
>>> crypt them otherwise you won't likely be able to access them.
>>
>>I know how to move "Documents". The problem is that the "Documents" folder
>>icon in my user account disappears after next boot unless I am really quick
>>mounting the encrypted drive. On XP it didn't matter if the files in "My
>>Documents" were accessible or not, on Vista it does for some reason.
>>
>>I know the encryption software I use (TrueCrypt) very well since I have
>>used it for years, first on Win2K and the on XP. It's a great piece of free
>>software for creating encrypted volumes or even whole encrypted partitions.
>>For me the main reason to encrypt is that the files should not be
>>accessible if my laptop gets stolen. I do not need to hide them while I am
>>logged in. With TrueCrypt I can work with files totally seamlessly and move
>>them off and on the encrypted volume or partition without any extra
>>precautions at all. When I turn my computer off the files are both
>>inaccessible and invisible if someone other than me should get access to my
>>laptop. On Vista I can't use it the way I am used to since moving
>>"Documents" to a drive that gets mounted late in the boot process makes
>>Vista think the files do not exist and delete the "Documents" icon in my
>>user folder.
>
> Sounds like a problem with TrueCrypt not Vista. I've used all kinds of
> encryption software over the years and use lots of external drives now
> that get mounted late, sometimes hours after I boot. Neither should
> effect what Vista "sees" at all.
>
> Assuming you boot into Vista, regardless what you mount should AFTER
> the drive is mounted encrypted or not cause a window to pop up giving
> you options on what you want to do with the drive's contents.
>
> I'm not familiar with TrueCrypt, I'm guessing you enter a password to
> mount a drive right? If so, explain what happens next step by step.

It is a problem with Vista, and not with TrueCrypt since the same thing
would happen if you move your "Documents" location to let's say a USB drive
that you plug in after the computer has booted. That is simply not possible
on Vista, but worked fine on XP. If that drive isn't plugged in when you
boot you will loose your "Documents" folder icon in your user account and
will have to restore it by entering "shellersonal" in the search box in
the Start Menu, or do a system restore.

Where I work a lot of our documents are sensitive, so no one wants to have
them accessible at all times. Some people are using the encrypted drive
solution, and some have their "Documents" on an external drive they plug in
when they need access to the documents, and only then. Not possible in
Vista, but works fine in Windows XP, OS 10, and both KDE and Gnome on
Linux. All these OS's and desktop environments have special folders for
documents and other files like music and pictures which works better than
in Vista.

This whole concept of having special folders point to a location that isn't
mounted at boot has been working fine in Windows since Win 95!. I can't see
any reason why it shouldn't work now, so I was asking here about it.

--
//ceed

I don't find that incredible at all seeing as on networks and in home
settings either pointing your document folder to a network drive that gets
backed up or a separate logical drive on your system can make for a very
safe recovery in case your computer crashes.



"Ian Betts" <igb123@talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:uMFInOlxHHA.3940@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I find it incredible that people want to move the My Documents when this is
>and always has been a special Windows folder. Why not make and name your
>special folder something else and mount it and make an icon for it.
>
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> "ceed" <ceed.spameater@dysthe.net> wrote in message
> news:1qnxl40t33vb6$.1hiqra6pb4lqu.dlg@40tude.net...
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Windows XP I used TrueCrypt to create and mounts an encrypted drive on
>> my disk where I kept "My Documents" for security reasons. This virtual
>> encrypted disk got mounted during log-in to Windows. I had to enter a
>> password and "My Documents" were available.
>>
>> I am now trying to do the same on Windows Vista. I can greate the
>> encrypted
>> drive without proble. I am also able to move the "Documents" folder there
>> using the location setting, very similar to what I did on XP. It works
>> until I reboot. After I log in again the encrypted drive is mounted,
>> there's a "Documents" folder on the encrypted drive, but there's no
>> /Users/MyAccount/Documents anymore. I am not able to reach "Documents"
>> from
>> the Start Menu either. If I move it back to default location everything
>> works fine again.
>>
>> To me it seems like Vista deletes the special "Documents" folder if it
>> can't find the target until late during boot for some reason. It's very
>> different from how it worked on XP where if I did not mount the encrypted
>> drive I just got a message that "My Documents" isn't available if I
>> clicked
>> on the "My Documents" icon or tried to access it from the Start Menu,
>>
>> It's really amazing how the whole special folder concept has been flaky
>> since Windows 95! Now with Vista it has changed again, and still people
>> complauin about special folders getting lost and about how to restore the
>> icons and functionality for them. It's actually gotten worse in Vista!
>>
>> In addition this problem with being able to move the folders to a drive
>> which isn't mounted at boot. I also tried to move "Documents" to a USB
>> drive. Same problem. If the drive isn't mounted at boot the "Documents"
>> folder vanishes. I have to either do the "shellersonal" thing or a
>> system
>> restore to get it back.
>>
>> Anyone here have any idea how I could go about keeping my "Docments"
>> folder
>> for a location that isn't mounted at log-in, or do I simply have to give
>> up
>> on the special Documents folder and save my sensitive stuff in a generic
>> folder on the encrypted drive?
>>
>> I do actually like Vista a lot, so I am hoping these things will be
>> ironed
>> out. But looking at how the special folder thing has been addressed in
>> the
>> past doesn't give me a lot of hope in this regard. Look at how OS 10 has
>> this down rock solid. It shouldn't be that complicated!
>>
>> --
>> //ceed
>>
>

On Jul 16, 2:46 pm, "noaim" <whiz...@myspacerep.net> wrote:
> I don't find that incredible at all seeing as on networks and in home
> settings either pointing your document folder to a network drive that gets
> backed up or a separate logical drive on your system can make for a very
> safe recovery in case your computer crashes.
>
Thank you for putting this better than I did. You got it!

//c