Vista - Explorer treeview +/-

When the folders pane is displayed in Explorer under Vista the +/- icons are
only visible while the mouse is over that pane. If the mouse is moved to
the toolbar or the details pane or anywhere else all the visible cues as to
which folder has sub folders are lost. Is there any way to make those
remain visible at all times? Failing that, can anybody give any reason why
they'd want this information should be hidden most of the time?

"Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
news:#pIvjaq2HHA.4004@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> When the folders pane is displayed in Explorer under Vista the +/- icons
> are only visible while the mouse is over that pane. If the mouse is moved
> to the toolbar or the details pane or anywhere else all the visible cues
> as to which folder has sub folders are lost. Is there any way to make
> those remain visible at all times? Failing that, can anybody give any
> reason why they'd want this information should be hidden most of the time?
>
Actually, it is more of an arrow than a +/- sign and as you've surmised,
what you are seeing is by design. I'd only be guessing at why they did it
and it would likely take a registry hack to change it. It's possible some
theme package might make the change. Check out WindowBlinds,
http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/
Or, do a Google search on Windows Themes or Vista Themes.

--
Michael Solomon
Backup is a PC user's best friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote in message
news:ejzVW9q2HHA.4720@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

"Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
news:#pIvjaq2HHA.4004@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> When the folders pane is displayed in Explorer under Vista the +/- icons
> are only visible while the mouse is over that pane. If the mouse is moved
> to the toolbar or the details pane or anywhere else all the visible cues
> as to which folder has sub folders are lost. Is there any way to make
> those remain visible at all times? Failing that, can anybody give any
> reason why they'd want this information should be hidden most of the time?
>
Actually, it is more of an arrow than a +/- sign and as you've surmised,
what you are seeing is by design. I'd only be guessing at why they did it
and it would likely take a registry hack to change it. It's possible some
theme package might make the change. Check out WindowBlinds,
http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/
Or, do a Google search on Windows Themes or Vista Themes.

--
Michael Solomon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, great. Another change for the sake of change. Hadn't notice that
before, don't usually use the nav pane.

Is there anyone, ANYONE, out there that will claim to have asked for a valid
visual clue to be eliminated/hidden like this? Wouldn't you think it
further complicates the Explorer coding to have to decide if the arrow
should be shown or not? That means always tracking where the mouse pointer
is, when it enters or leaves the nav pane.

Add another point to the negative pile.

Val

"Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote in message
news:ejzVW9q2HHA.4720@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>
> "Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
> news:#pIvjaq2HHA.4004@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> When the folders pane is displayed in Explorer under Vista the +/- icons
>> are only visible while the mouse is over that pane. If the mouse is
>> moved to the toolbar or the details pane or anywhere else all the visible
>> cues as to which folder has sub folders are lost. Is there any way to
>> make those remain visible at all times? Failing that, can anybody give
>> any reason why they'd want this information should be hidden most of the
>> time?
>>
> Actually, it is more of an arrow than a +/- sign and as you've surmised,
> what you are seeing is by design. I'd only be guessing at why they did it
> and it would likely take a registry hack to change it. It's possible some
> theme package might make the change. Check out WindowBlinds,
> http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/
> Or, do a Google search on Windows Themes or Vista Themes.

Thanks, I've actually got it set to Windows Classic so it is a +/- for me
and I forgot that they changed that as well. As you noted, the quetion
still holds. Somebody went out of their way to add this "feature" which as
far as I can see has no upside.

"Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
news:OHyv6$r2HHA.5772@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> "Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote in message
> news:ejzVW9q2HHA.4720@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>
>>
>> "Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
>> news:#pIvjaq2HHA.4004@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> When the folders pane is displayed in Explorer under Vista the +/- icons
>>> are only visible while the mouse is over that pane. If the mouse is
>>> moved to the toolbar or the details pane or anywhere else all the
>>> visible cues as to which folder has sub folders are lost. Is there any
>>> way to make those remain visible at all times? Failing that, can
>>> anybody give any reason why they'd want this information should be
>>> hidden most of the time?
>>>
>> Actually, it is more of an arrow than a +/- sign and as you've surmised,
>> what you are seeing is by design. I'd only be guessing at why they did
>> it and it would likely take a registry hack to change it. It's possible
>> some theme package might make the change. Check out WindowBlinds,
>> http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/
>> Or, do a Google search on Windows Themes or Vista Themes.
>
> Thanks, I've actually got it set to Windows Classic so it is a +/- for me
> and I forgot that they changed that as well. As you noted, the quetion
> still holds. Somebody went out of their way to add this "feature" which
> as far as I can see has no upside.
>
I agree, Bob, especially if that fade in/fade approach holds for classic
view. That said, as one who once lived in Explorer, I rarely use it now
that I have Vista. I have found far more convenient ways to navigate around
and I also find using Computer in a similar fashion to the way I once used
Explorer a better more efficient way to operate; that, in conjunction with
using the favorite links.

If you open the computer folder, you'll both a folder list and favorite
links. Plus, the down arrows in the address bar above the toolbar also
offer useful ways to navigate. Sometimes moving up in a folder, sub-folder
to say the next sub-folder above can be a bit awkward but I may not have
found a simple way to do that yet...maybe its in the help system
somewhere...I didn't get a manual so I have to um, er, Explore!

Still, I'm with you on this, the fact I rarely use it anymore does not
change the fact the plus and minus are useful at a glance navigation tools
which should not have been eliminated simply for cosmetic reasons. At the
very least, they should have left the arrow always visible.

--
Michael Solomon
Backup is a PC user's best friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote in message
news:e04VLZs2HHA.464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>
> "Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
> news:OHyv6$r2HHA.5772@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> "Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote in message
>> news:ejzVW9q2HHA.4720@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
>>> news:#pIvjaq2HHA.4004@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>> When the folders pane is displayed in Explorer under Vista the +/-
>>>> icons are only visible while the mouse is over that pane. If the mouse
>>>> is moved to the toolbar or the details pane or anywhere else all the
>>>> visible cues as to which folder has sub folders are lost. Is there any
>>>> way to make those remain visible at all times? Failing that, can
>>>> anybody give any reason why they'd want this information should be
>>>> hidden most of the time?
>>>>
>>> Actually, it is more of an arrow than a +/- sign and as you've surmised,
>>> what you are seeing is by design. I'd only be guessing at why they did
>>> it and it would likely take a registry hack to change it. It's possible
>>> some theme package might make the change. Check out WindowBlinds,
>>> http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/
>>> Or, do a Google search on Windows Themes or Vista Themes.
>>
>> Thanks, I've actually got it set to Windows Classic so it is a +/- for me
>> and I forgot that they changed that as well. As you noted, the quetion
>> still holds. Somebody went out of their way to add this "feature" which
>> as far as I can see has no upside.
>>
> I agree, Bob, especially if that fade in/fade approach holds for classic
> view. That said, as one who once lived in Explorer, I rarely use it now
> that I have Vista. I have found far more convenient ways to navigate
> around and I also find using Computer in a similar fashion to the way I
> once used Explorer a better more efficient way to operate; that, in
> conjunction with using the favorite links.
>
> If you open the computer folder, you'll both a folder list and favorite
> links.

Not sure I understand you here... opening "Computer" *is* Explorer, just a
slightly different way to start it.

> Plus, the down arrows in the address bar above the toolbar also offer
> useful ways to navigate. Sometimes moving up in a folder, sub-folder to
> say the next sub-folder above can be a bit awkward but I may not have
> found a simple way to do that yet...maybe its in the help system
> somewhere...I didn't get a manual so I have to um, er, Explore!
>
> Still, I'm with you on this, the fact I rarely use it anymore does not
> change the fact the plus and minus are useful at a glance navigation tools
> which should not have been eliminated simply for cosmetic reasons. At the
> very least, they should have left the arrow always visible.

I can understand making it an option, but like removing the underscores from
the accelerator keys, all this does is make the interface provide less
information and that makes it harder to use.

"Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
news:uIcm6ls2HHA.5316@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Not sure I understand you here... opening "Computer" *is* Explorer, just a
> slightly different way to start it.
>
>

If you open Windows Explorer, in the left pane you get your with the folder
list below in the left pane with the sub-folders of the folder which is
selected in Explorer when it opens. If you wish to see your other drives,
you have to scroll to computer and open it or expand it.

If you open computer, you open with your drives in the right pane and
Favorite Links and Folder list in the left pane. It does open on the
computer folder but I find this quicker and easier to navigate around than I
do in Explorer.

In Explorer, you start with folders but in Computer, the drives visible on
open and your folder list is there as well, readily available.
--
Michael Solomon
Backup is a PC user's best friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote in message
news:%23WCxoxs2HHA.5316@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
> "Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
> news:uIcm6ls2HHA.5316@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Not sure I understand you here... opening "Computer" *is* Explorer, just
>> a slightly different way to start it.
>
> If you open Windows Explorer, in the left pane you get your with the
> folder list below in the left pane with the sub-folders of the folder
> which is selected in Explorer when it opens. If you wish to see your
> other drives, you have to scroll to computer and open it or expand it.

Ah, I see what you are saying. I start Explorer via a shortcut that has:
C:\Windows\explorer.exe c:\
so it starts with the C drive open, all the rest of the drives visible in
the folder tree on the left and the top-level folders on the right.

> If you open computer, you open with your drives in the right pane and
> Favorite Links and Folder list in the left pane.

Actually, folder list only for me... "Favorites" is just in the way as far
as I'm concerned so I always shrink that down to nothing. YMMV

"Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
news:#P5#o1s2HHA.3640@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote in message
> news:%23WCxoxs2HHA.5316@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>>
>> "Bob Butler" <noway@nospam.ever> wrote in message
>> news:uIcm6ls2HHA.5316@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> Not sure I understand you here... opening "Computer" *is* Explorer, just
>>> a slightly different way to start it.
>>
>> If you open Windows Explorer, in the left pane you get your with the
>> folder list below in the left pane with the sub-folders of the folder
>> which is selected in Explorer when it opens. If you wish to see your
>> other drives, you have to scroll to computer and open it or expand it.
>
> Ah, I see what you are saying. I start Explorer via a shortcut that has:
> C:\Windows\explorer.exe c:\
> so it starts with the C drive open, all the rest of the drives visible in
> the folder tree on the left and the top-level folders on the right.
>
>> If you open computer, you open with your drives in the right pane and
>> Favorite Links and Folder list in the left pane.
>
> Actually, folder list only for me... "Favorites" is just in the way as far
> as I'm concerned so I always shrink that down to nothing. YMMV
>
Since I left "Documents" on the C drive, virtually all my documents and data
are freely and easily accessible from favorite links and I've created some
additional sub-folders that show up as well right along with the shell
folders of Documents, Photos, etc. hence, I find Favorite Links quite useful
and really don't have much use anymore for the full drive C folder list I
once used.

For me, anyway, it just seems to make my drives more accessible especially
when I'm moving files around or copying files from one drive to another.

--
Michael Solomon
Backup is a PC user's best friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/

"Michael Solomon" <user@#notme.com> wrote in message
news:eAGBeHt2HHA.2752@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Since I left "Documents" on the C drive, virtually all my documents and
> data are freely and easily accessible from favorite links and I've created
> some additional sub-folders that show up as well right along with the
> shell folders of Documents, Photos, etc. hence, I find Favorite Links
> quite useful and really don't have much use anymore for the full drive C
> folder list I once used.

In my case I can't stand "documents" and "pictures" and "music" and all
those artificial divisions. Any given folder is likely to contain several
different types of files that are all related to each other and they're all
in folders under the desktop folder. Much easier to organize IMO. Also,
since many of them are work-related and not necessarily things I want to
deal with calling them "favorites" always grates! <g>