i emailed Shuttle today, the manufacturers of my small form factor PC,
asking what their intention is regarding the provision of Vista drivers for
their PCs. I just got RC1 running now, but i was fairly apalled by the
attitude from their customer service. have a read of their response below,
is it just me or do they not give a crap?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shuttle Support" <support@shuttle.eu>
To: <tim>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle


> Dear Shuttle customer,
>
> We understand this issue and we are already in contact with Microsoft
> regarding Vista compatibility. Please understand it is Microsofts
> decision whether older chipsets will be supported or not. We cannot
> do anything in this case. Thank you.
>
> ---
> Best Regards
> Shuttle Support




---------------------
this is what i wrote in reply...
---------------------


From: "Tim Mackey" <tim>
To: <support@shuttle.eu>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle

hi,
thanks for the reply, but i have to say that is a highly dissatisfactory
answer.
To my knowledge, Windows Vista will support any hardware where the chipset
manufacturers provide Vista drivers for. Surely you can't expect Microsoft
to develop device drivers for every piece of hardware? MS have to work with
the manufacturers, but as i understand it the responsibility is on the
manufacturers to provide drivers to their customers. ATI and NVidia and
many other manufacturers have had Vista drivers since early Beta. We are
already in RC1 and ATI have matched the RC1 release with updated drivers.
it looks like Shuttle are not really taking it seriously judging by the
response below. I sincerely hope Shuttle take a better initiative with
Vista compatibility.

best regards
Tim Mackey.

It is up to the manufacturers of Individual component to develop the drivers
for their componet. What part of your PC does Shutlle actually
manufacturer. If doubt that they make the chipset used on their motherboard
or even make the motherboard itself.
MS has the right to refuse any drivers submitted to them for inclusion in
their release or to be provided via WinUpdate after a release. They can
refuse them if the driver and/or component do not meat MS specs for that
component or if the drivers cause problems with the release itself.
So I suggest that look at the WebSite of the chipset or MOBO manufacturer
for VISTA support. Many MOBO manufacturers have updated the BIOS's for
Vista.

"Tim Mackey" <tim.mackey@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:ACB51D54-D1BD-40C5-BFD8-DD70440DBA20@microsoft.com...
>i emailed Shuttle today, the manufacturers of my small form factor PC,
>asking what their intention is regarding the provision of Vista drivers for
>their PCs. I just got RC1 running now, but i was fairly apalled by the
>attitude from their customer service. have a read of their response below,
>is it just me or do they not give a crap?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shuttle Support" <support@shuttle.eu>
> To: <tim>
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>
>
>> Dear Shuttle customer,
>>
>> We understand this issue and we are already in contact with Microsoft
>> regarding Vista compatibility. Please understand it is Microsofts
>> decision whether older chipsets will be supported or not. We cannot
>> do anything in this case. Thank you.
>>
>> ---
>> Best Regards
>> Shuttle Support
>
>
> ---------------------
> this is what i wrote in reply...
> ---------------------
>
>
> From: "Tim Mackey" <tim>
> To: <support@shuttle.eu>
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>
> hi,
> thanks for the reply, but i have to say that is a highly dissatisfactory
> answer.
> To my knowledge, Windows Vista will support any hardware where the chipset
> manufacturers provide Vista drivers for. Surely you can't expect
> Microsoft
> to develop device drivers for every piece of hardware? MS have to work
> with
> the manufacturers, but as i understand it the responsibility is on the
> manufacturers to provide drivers to their customers. ATI and NVidia and
> many other manufacturers have had Vista drivers since early Beta. We are
> already in RC1 and ATI have matched the RC1 release with updated drivers.
> it looks like Shuttle are not really taking it seriously judging by the
> response below. I sincerely hope Shuttle take a better initiative with
> Vista compatibility.
>
> best regards
> Tim Mackey.

hi JW
The computer has a Silicon image raid controller, but it's on-board. it is a
shuttle motherboard (ATI chipset).
on the silicon image support site
http://www.siliconimage.com/support/...x?pid=29&cid=3 they say that
they don't provide drivers for OEM manufacturers who use their products
on-board. as far as i know this is what shuttle have done, Shuttle
manufacture their own cases and motherboards so technically they should
provide the driver also for any on-board controllers?

the shuttle customer support rep has just replied with this:
"Shuttle cannot provide driver if the chip manufacturer does not do."

but this seems to be in direct contradiction to what the chip manufacturer
is saying.
i'd hate to think they can pass the buck till the cows come home, and not
develop any vista drivers at all.

any thoughts?
thanks
tim


"JW" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in message
news:%23$S1HfC0GHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> It is up to the manufacturers of Individual component to develop the
> drivers for their componet. What part of your PC does Shutlle actually
> manufacturer. If doubt that they make the chipset used on their
> motherboard or even make the motherboard itself.
> MS has the right to refuse any drivers submitted to them for inclusion in
> their release or to be provided via WinUpdate after a release. They can
> refuse them if the driver and/or component do not meat MS specs for that
> component or if the drivers cause problems with the release itself.
> So I suggest that look at the WebSite of the chipset or MOBO manufacturer
> for VISTA support. Many MOBO manufacturers have updated the BIOS's for
> Vista.
>
> "Tim Mackey" <tim.mackey@community.nospam> wrote in message
> news:ACB51D54-D1BD-40C5-BFD8-DD70440DBA20@microsoft.com...
>>i emailed Shuttle today, the manufacturers of my small form factor PC,
>>asking what their intention is regarding the provision of Vista drivers
>>for their PCs. I just got RC1 running now, but i was fairly apalled by
>>the attitude from their customer service. have a read of their response
>>below, is it just me or do they not give a crap?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Shuttle Support" <support@shuttle.eu>
>> To: <tim>
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>>
>>
>>> Dear Shuttle customer,
>>>
>>> We understand this issue and we are already in contact with Microsoft
>>> regarding Vista compatibility. Please understand it is Microsofts
>>> decision whether older chipsets will be supported or not. We cannot
>>> do anything in this case. Thank you.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Best Regards
>>> Shuttle Support
>>
>>
>> ---------------------
>> this is what i wrote in reply...
>> ---------------------
>>
>>
>> From: "Tim Mackey" <tim>
>> To: <support@shuttle.eu>
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>>
>> hi,
>> thanks for the reply, but i have to say that is a highly dissatisfactory
>> answer.
>> To my knowledge, Windows Vista will support any hardware where the
>> chipset
>> manufacturers provide Vista drivers for. Surely you can't expect
>> Microsoft
>> to develop device drivers for every piece of hardware? MS have to work
>> with
>> the manufacturers, but as i understand it the responsibility is on the
>> manufacturers to provide drivers to their customers. ATI and NVidia and
>> many other manufacturers have had Vista drivers since early Beta. We are
>> already in RC1 and ATI have matched the RC1 release with updated drivers.
>> it looks like Shuttle are not really taking it seriously judging by the
>> response below. I sincerely hope Shuttle take a better initiative with
>> Vista compatibility.
>>
>> best regards
>> Tim Mackey.
>
>

From the link you posted it appears that they have not provided 3512 drivers
for anybody for Vista yet and I assume that you have a 3512 chip.
In device manager who does it say provided the drivers when you run on XP?
Hopefully when Vista drivers show up in the link you provided that you will
be able to install them and they will work. Shuttle will probably
incorporate them also at that time.
"Tim Mackey" <tim.mackey@community.nospam> wrote in message
newsEB0471F-95FA-43AE-92BE-EF2702C535AC@microsoft.com...
> hi JW
> The computer has a Silicon image raid controller, but it's on-board. it is
> a shuttle motherboard (ATI chipset).
> on the silicon image support site
> http://www.siliconimage.com/support/...x?pid=29&cid=3 they say that
> they don't provide drivers for OEM manufacturers who use their products
> on-board. as far as i know this is what shuttle have done, Shuttle
> manufacture their own cases and motherboards so technically they should
> provide the driver also for any on-board controllers?
>
> the shuttle customer support rep has just replied with this:
> "Shuttle cannot provide driver if the chip manufacturer does not do."
>
> but this seems to be in direct contradiction to what the chip manufacturer
> is saying.
> i'd hate to think they can pass the buck till the cows come home, and not
> develop any vista drivers at all.
>
> any thoughts?
> thanks
> tim
>
>
> "JW" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:%23$S1HfC0GHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> It is up to the manufacturers of Individual component to develop the
>> drivers for their componet. What part of your PC does Shutlle actually
>> manufacturer. If doubt that they make the chipset used on their
>> motherboard or even make the motherboard itself.
>> MS has the right to refuse any drivers submitted to them for inclusion in
>> their release or to be provided via WinUpdate after a release. They can
>> refuse them if the driver and/or component do not meat MS specs for that
>> component or if the drivers cause problems with the release itself.
>> So I suggest that look at the WebSite of the chipset or MOBO manufacturer
>> for VISTA support. Many MOBO manufacturers have updated the BIOS's for
>> Vista.
>>
>> "Tim Mackey" <tim.mackey@community.nospam> wrote in message
>> news:ACB51D54-D1BD-40C5-BFD8-DD70440DBA20@microsoft.com...
>>>i emailed Shuttle today, the manufacturers of my small form factor PC,
>>>asking what their intention is regarding the provision of Vista drivers
>>>for their PCs. I just got RC1 running now, but i was fairly apalled by
>>>the attitude from their customer service. have a read of their response
>>>below, is it just me or do they not give a crap?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Shuttle Support" <support@shuttle.eu>
>>> To: <tim>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Shuttle customer,
>>>>
>>>> We understand this issue and we are already in contact with Microsoft
>>>> regarding Vista compatibility. Please understand it is Microsofts
>>>> decision whether older chipsets will be supported or not. We cannot
>>>> do anything in this case. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Shuttle Support
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------
>>> this is what i wrote in reply...
>>> ---------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "Tim Mackey" <tim>
>>> To: <support@shuttle.eu>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:14 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>>>
>>> hi,
>>> thanks for the reply, but i have to say that is a highly dissatisfactory
>>> answer.
>>> To my knowledge, Windows Vista will support any hardware where the
>>> chipset
>>> manufacturers provide Vista drivers for. Surely you can't expect
>>> Microsoft
>>> to develop device drivers for every piece of hardware? MS have to work
>>> with
>>> the manufacturers, but as i understand it the responsibility is on the
>>> manufacturers to provide drivers to their customers. ATI and NVidia and
>>> many other manufacturers have had Vista drivers since early Beta. We
>>> are
>>> already in RC1 and ATI have matched the RC1 release with updated
>>> drivers.
>>> it looks like Shuttle are not really taking it seriously judging by the
>>> response below. I sincerely hope Shuttle take a better initiative with
>>> Vista compatibility.
>>>
>>> best regards
>>> Tim Mackey.
>>
>>
>

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 06:41:08 -0700, "JW" <nospam@no.spam> wrote:

>It is up to the manufacturers of Individual component to develop the drivers
>for their componet. What part of your PC does Shutlle actually
>manufacturer. If doubt that they make the chipset used on their motherboard
>or even make the motherboard itself.
Shuttle markets Motherboards for the do-it-yourselfer. Mine is a
AN35N-Ultra. Sadly, it seems that they use the various chipset(s)
manufacturers supplied drivers.
They are supposed to be our line of support, not the chipset
manufacturer.
*They* should be bugging the OEM chipset manufacturer for Vista
compatible drivers or dev elope them themselves ( Ha ! ).

My list of None available or Lame Vista drivers is getting longer:
Brother: MFC8820DN = Lame, No FAX support, Lots of fussing, gets the
scanner to work.
Turtle beach: Montegro DDL, none. Basic Stereo using generic drivers.
(a No-name) IDE RAID using the Silicon Image SIL680 (the driver disk
supplied, had drivers from *many* different products). None, BSOD if
you try the XP driver controls panel
Nvidia. does not support older GF2 products
Novell no support (even if it was Limited support) for Legacy IPX
based NW networks

Well built hardware outlasts many versions of an O/S release schedule.

I know of many businesses that still use DOS, Windows 95a because:
1) the hardware still runs
2) Expensive applications are not compatible with newer hardware or
newer O/S
3) (re)Training older operators is difficult, if not frustrating :^)
4) Money does not grow on trees (especially at mom and pop businesses)


>MS has the right to refuse any drivers submitted to them for inclusion in
>their release or to be provided via WinUpdate after a release. They can
>refuse them if the driver and/or component do not meat MS specs for that
>component or if the drivers cause problems with the release itself.
>So I suggest that look at the WebSite of the chipset or MOBO manufacturer
>for VISTA support. Many MOBO manufacturers have updated the BIOS's for
>Vista.
>
>"Tim Mackey" <tim.mackey@community.nospam> wrote in message
>news:ACB51D54-D1BD-40C5-BFD8-DD70440DBA20@microsoft.com...
>>i emailed Shuttle today, the manufacturers of my small form factor PC,
>>asking what their intention is regarding the provision of Vista drivers for
>>their PCs. I just got RC1 running now, but i was fairly apalled by the
>>attitude from their customer service. have a read of their response below,
>>is it just me or do they not give a crap?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Shuttle Support" <support@shuttle.eu>
>> To: <tim>
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>>
>>
>>> Dear Shuttle customer,
>>>
>>> We understand this issue and we are already in contact with Microsoft
>>> regarding Vista compatibility. Please understand it is Microsofts
>>> decision whether older chipsets will be supported or not. We cannot
>>> do anything in this case. Thank you.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Best Regards
>>> Shuttle Support
>>
>>
>> ---------------------
>> this is what i wrote in reply...
>> ---------------------
>>
>>
>> From: "Tim Mackey" <tim>
>> To: <support@shuttle.eu>
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>>
>> hi,
>> thanks for the reply, but i have to say that is a highly dissatisfactory
>> answer.
>> To my knowledge, Windows Vista will support any hardware where the chipset
>> manufacturers provide Vista drivers for. Surely you can't expect
>> Microsoft
>> to develop device drivers for every piece of hardware? MS have to work
>> with
>> the manufacturers, but as i understand it the responsibility is on the
>> manufacturers to provide drivers to their customers. ATI and NVidia and
>> many other manufacturers have had Vista drivers since early Beta. We are
>> already in RC1 and ATI have matched the RC1 release with updated drivers.
>> it looks like Shuttle are not really taking it seriously judging by the
>> response below. I sincerely hope Shuttle take a better initiative with
>> Vista compatibility.
>>
>> best regards
>> Tim Mackey.
>

Certrainly by time of the general release there will be more drivers
supported in Vista as the manufacturers appear to be tunrning them out
pretty fast now. Some user have had sucess installing and running XP
drivers in XP compatiblity mode in Vista that may work for some of your
devices. I too have problems with a couple of applications and with both my
printer and scanner driver. I solved the printer driver problem temporarly
by installing a Vista driver for a printer with a similiiar model number.

"Steve Urbach" <dragonsclaw@NOTmindspring.com> wrote in message
newsm1pf2pij5nfbdjglv3gp8862lgn2ojih7@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 06:41:08 -0700, "JW" <nospam@no.spam> wrote:
>
>>It is up to the manufacturers of Individual component to develop the
>>drivers
>>for their componet. What part of your PC does Shutlle actually
>>manufacturer. If doubt that they make the chipset used on their
>>motherboard
>>or even make the motherboard itself.
> Shuttle markets Motherboards for the do-it-yourselfer. Mine is a
> AN35N-Ultra. Sadly, it seems that they use the various chipset(s)
> manufacturers supplied drivers.
> They are supposed to be our line of support, not the chipset
> manufacturer.
> *They* should be bugging the OEM chipset manufacturer for Vista
> compatible drivers or dev elope them themselves ( Ha ! ).
>
> My list of None available or Lame Vista drivers is getting longer:
> Brother: MFC8820DN = Lame, No FAX support, Lots of fussing, gets the
> scanner to work.
> Turtle beach: Montegro DDL, none. Basic Stereo using generic drivers.
> (a No-name) IDE RAID using the Silicon Image SIL680 (the driver disk
> supplied, had drivers from *many* different products). None, BSOD if
> you try the XP driver controls panel
> Nvidia. does not support older GF2 products
> Novell no support (even if it was Limited support) for Legacy IPX
> based NW networks
>
> Well built hardware outlasts many versions of an O/S release schedule.
>
> I know of many businesses that still use DOS, Windows 95a because:
> 1) the hardware still runs
> 2) Expensive applications are not compatible with newer hardware or
> newer O/S
> 3) (re)Training older operators is difficult, if not frustrating :^)
> 4) Money does not grow on trees (especially at mom and pop businesses)
>
>
>>MS has the right to refuse any drivers submitted to them for inclusion in
>>their release or to be provided via WinUpdate after a release. They can
>>refuse them if the driver and/or component do not meat MS specs for that
>>component or if the drivers cause problems with the release itself.
>>So I suggest that look at the WebSite of the chipset or MOBO manufacturer
>>for VISTA support. Many MOBO manufacturers have updated the BIOS's for
>>Vista.
>>
>>"Tim Mackey" <tim.mackey@community.nospam> wrote in message
>>news:ACB51D54-D1BD-40C5-BFD8-DD70440DBA20@microsoft.com...
>>>i emailed Shuttle today, the manufacturers of my small form factor PC,
>>>asking what their intention is regarding the provision of Vista drivers
>>>for
>>>their PCs. I just got RC1 running now, but i was fairly apalled by the
>>>attitude from their customer service. have a read of their response
>>>below,
>>>is it just me or do they not give a crap?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Shuttle Support" <support@shuttle.eu>
>>> To: <tim>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 1:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Shuttle customer,
>>>>
>>>> We understand this issue and we are already in contact with Microsoft
>>>> regarding Vista compatibility. Please understand it is Microsofts
>>>> decision whether older chipsets will be supported or not. We cannot
>>>> do anything in this case. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Shuttle Support
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------
>>> this is what i wrote in reply...
>>> ---------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "Tim Mackey" <tim>
>>> To: <support@shuttle.eu>
>>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:14 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Support-Anfrage Shuttle
>>>
>>> hi,
>>> thanks for the reply, but i have to say that is a highly dissatisfactory
>>> answer.
>>> To my knowledge, Windows Vista will support any hardware where the
>>> chipset
>>> manufacturers provide Vista drivers for. Surely you can't expect
>>> Microsoft
>>> to develop device drivers for every piece of hardware? MS have to work
>>> with
>>> the manufacturers, but as i understand it the responsibility is on the
>>> manufacturers to provide drivers to their customers. ATI and NVidia and
>>> many other manufacturers have had Vista drivers since early Beta. We
>>> are
>>> already in RC1 and ATI have matched the RC1 release with updated
>>> drivers.
>>> it looks like Shuttle are not really taking it seriously judging by the
>>> response below. I sincerely hope Shuttle take a better initiative with
>>> Vista compatibility.
>>>
>>> best regards
>>> Tim Mackey.
>>