Vista - SO Vi$ta means death to a lot of old hardware devices....

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
> Not only hardware but software as well may drive the need for a new
> operating system.
> No one should upgrade anything from any source simply because a newer
> version is available.
>
Agree. but the manufacturers have to support older hardware at all cost.

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
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At all cost? Where is that written?

"Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23EHKLeuNHHA.5016@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
>> Not only hardware but software as well may drive the need for a new
>> operating system.
>> No one should upgrade anything from any source simply because a newer
>> version is available.
>>
> Agree. but the manufacturers have to support older hardware at all cost.
>
> --
> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
> ^ ^ 15:50:01 up 1 day 19:02 0 users load average: 1.04 1.02 1.00
> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:51:13 +0800, Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
>> Not only hardware but software as well may drive the need for a new
>> operating system.
>> No one should upgrade anything from any source simply because a newer
>> version is available.
>>
>Agree. but the manufacturers have to support older hardware at all cost.

Probably not at all costs, but *not* deliberately obsolescing older
stuff either. Nvidia will move downwards on *my* vendor list.

Do you really thing that each newer model is totally new?
I would guess that they are a "super set" of many earlier versions.
Some newer features/modes may not be available for use.

Look at HP PCL based printers. Many of the commands hail from the
(now) lowly LJ-2 series Almost any LJ2 driver will work with a modern
(non-win version) of the current family.

"Man-wai Chang" wrote:

>
> Is this ethical and environment-friendly?

my 5 years old printer Canon BJC-2100 is not recognized by Windows XP,
instead *BJC2100 it's automatically recognized by Windows Vista* without to
install any additional drivers

"at all cost"
Really?
Do you apply this same standard to appliances, automobiles, trucks and just
about anything else that changes as technology moves forward.
"at all cost" would all but stop progress since backwards compatibility
would ALWAYS have to be allowed with any new innovation.

Now perhaps some or most , but definitely not "at all cost".

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23EHKLeuNHHA.5016@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Agree. but the manufacturers have to support older hardware at all cost.
>
> --
> .~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
> / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
> ^ ^ 15:50:01 up 1 day 19:02 0 users load average: 1.04 1.02 1.00
> news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> 1) What manufacturer forces you to do anything? You will be able to
>> buy XP for a long while yet, if you were so inclined.
>
> All the greedy (mostly USA) manufacturers in the world.

US manufacturers like ASUS, ABIT...?

>> 3) Source Code? Why should they give you the source code? Would Ford
>> give you the plans to the Focus?
>
> Without source codes, capable programmers could port x32 drivers to
> x64. Of course, only if Micro$oft allowed that to happen first.

As the device manufacturers are responsible for providing drivers for their
products, it would be up to *them* what support they provide for older
products, such as producing updated 'closed source' drivers or releasing
source code for their drivers and documentation of their hardware interfaces
so that people could update/write new device drivers for old products.

Nothing to do with "Micro$oft" whoever they are, "Vi$ta" whatever that is,
or even the people of a similar name who produced Vista.

>> 4) What Death Penalty? WTF are you on about?
>
> If Vi$ta x64 is not going to have drivers for older hardware,
> that's a death penalty to them.

So you believe every single device that doesn't work with Vista
automatically becomes a boat anchor on the day Vista appears in the stores?
Curious. I want to hear more about this, does it burst into flames that
night or turn into a magic Disney style pumpkin? I only ask because if it's
the first one I want to put all all my older devices outside in a bucket of
water because I don't really fancy being burnt to death by an old printer.

>> 2) How is buying a new PC with Vista less environmentally
>> friendly than buying a new PC with XP?
>
> Once there would be no drivers, a lot of old and functioning
> hardware would be forced to be discard. You got it, did you?

FUD and lies. These old devices could be sold via ebay and live a long and
useful life while offsetting the (too expensive I admit) cost of the Vista
purchase, given away to plenty of charitable organisations locally that
could make use of them (think Church projects, etc), or given to the
organisations that send old equipment to third world countries.

In reference to your signature, I only hope you Might have the Courage to
acknowledge that either your Vision or Sincerity is at fault here, but I
won't hold my breath.

> In reference to your signature, I only hope you Might have the Courage to
> acknowledge that either your Vision or Sincerity is at fault here, but I
> won't hold my breath.

I wish my prediction would be wrong. I definitely want the 10Mbps
coaxial cable LAN at my home could join Vi$ta x64.

Right now, only Linux x64 has driver for those old LAN cards (they are
Realtek 8029AS). Mind you, 10Mbps is good enough for internet access,
unless you Earthlings could pump up the inter-continental, submarine
cable bandwidth....

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 20:19:01 up 2 days 23:31 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

On 2007-01-14 12:22:20 +0000, Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> said:

>> In reference to your signature, I only hope you Might have the Courage
>> to acknowledge that either your Vision or Sincerity is at fault here,
>> but I won't hold my breath.
>
> I wish my prediction would be wrong. I definitely want the 10Mbps
> coaxial cable LAN at my home could join Vi$ta x64.
>
> Right now, only Linux x64 has driver for those old LAN cards (they are
> Realtek 8029AS). Mind you, 10Mbps is good enough for internet access,
> unless you Earthlings could pump up the inter-continental, submarine
> cable bandwidth....

So in other words, you don't have to throw those old cards away, no
'death sentence', because they're still perfectly usable if only the
vendors would provide drivers or open the source for the drivers and
their internal device interfaces so that people could write their own.

Thanks for conceding that.

--
Robert Moir

www.rhymeswithgeek.com

> So in other words, you don't have to throw those old cards away, no
> 'death sentence', because they're still perfectly usable if only the
> vendors would provide drivers or open the source for the drivers and
> their internal device interfaces so that people could write their own.
> Thanks for conceding that.

Yes, if and only if the vendors (or maybe Micro$oft) would provide the
x64 driver....

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.10) Linux 2.6.19.2
^ ^ 21:51:01 up 4 days 1:03 0 users load average: 1.00 1.00 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk

Except Microsoft does not make drivers for 3rd party hardware.
The 3rd party drivers distributed by Microsoft were provided by the hardware
manufacturers.

If you have driver issues, hopefully you have contacted the hardware
manufacturer they are really the only one that can do something about it.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:elsxExKOHHA.3872@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Yes, if and only if the vendors (or maybe Micro$oft) would provide the
> x64 driver....