I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.

My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.

At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
lock-up.

Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
malware being discovered.

I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Go to various maker's site and update all the drivers and utilities.
Many Video and BT drivers have been updated in the last
few weeks.

If still an issue check the Microsoft Knowledge Base as there
are possible hotfix's that might apply.

"MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:A343476D-0010-4216-848F-61CEF05E6B53@xxxxxx

>I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
> please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.
>
> My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
> with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
> graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
> machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
> noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
> Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
> move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
> and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.
>
> At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
> returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
> email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
> installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
> lock-up.
>
> Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
> installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
> fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
> well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
> malware being discovered.
>
> I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
> uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
> help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.

Thanks Spirit, I've already made those rounds.

I did find one mouse related hotfix but it is not a very close match.
Besides it is a pita to obtain hotfixes from Microsoft.

"Spirit" wrote:

> Go to various maker's site and update all the drivers and utilities.
> Many Video and BT drivers have been updated in the last
> few weeks.
>
> If still an issue check the Microsoft Knowledge Base as there
> are possible hotfix's that might apply.
>
> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:A343476D-0010-4216-848F-61CEF05E6B53@xxxxxx

> >I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
> > please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.
> >
> > My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
> > with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
> > graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
> > machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
> > noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
> > Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
> > move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
> > and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.
> >
> > At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
> > returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
> > email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
> > installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
> > lock-up.
> >
> > Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
> > installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
> > fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
> > well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
> > malware being discovered.
> >
> > I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
> > uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
> > help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
> > appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.

>

So you have totally updated ALL your drivers? or just those
easy to find?

"MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:179EE892-632B-445D-A684-FB6037AE4204@xxxxxx

> Thanks Spirit, I've already made those rounds.
>
> I did find one mouse related hotfix but it is not a very close match.
> Besides it is a pita to obtain hotfixes from Microsoft.
>
> "Spirit" wrote:
>

>> Go to various maker's site and update all the drivers and utilities.
>> Many Video and BT drivers have been updated in the last
>> few weeks.
>>
>> If still an issue check the Microsoft Knowledge Base as there
>> are possible hotfix's that might apply.
>>
>> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:A343476D-0010-4216-848F-61CEF05E6B53@xxxxxx

>> >I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
>> > please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.
>> >
>> > My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
>> > with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
>> > graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
>> > machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
>> > noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
>> > Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
>> > move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
>> > and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.
>> >
>> > At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
>> > returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
>> > email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
>> > installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
>> > lock-up.
>> >
>> > Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
>> > installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
>> > fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
>> > well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
>> > malware being discovered.
>> >
>> > I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
>> > uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
>> > help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
>> > appreciated.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance.

>>

I'm not 100% certain of your point. Since 95% of my new custom machine is
Intel, yes, I updated the system with all the most current drivers from
Intel. I also updated the ATI driver with the latest from ATI. If it isn't
Intel or ATI, it came from MS, which is also up to date.

Do you have specific suggestions, or are you just baiting. If its the
former, I'm all ears; otherwise, please don't waste my time.

"Spirit" wrote:

> So you have totally updated ALL your drivers? or just those
> easy to find?
>
> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:179EE892-632B-445D-A684-FB6037AE4204@xxxxxx

> > Thanks Spirit, I've already made those rounds.
> >
> > I did find one mouse related hotfix but it is not a very close match.
> > Besides it is a pita to obtain hotfixes from Microsoft.
> >
> > "Spirit" wrote:
> >

> >> Go to various maker's site and update all the drivers and utilities.
> >> Many Video and BT drivers have been updated in the last
> >> few weeks.
> >>
> >> If still an issue check the Microsoft Knowledge Base as there
> >> are possible hotfix's that might apply.
> >>
> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:A343476D-0010-4216-848F-61CEF05E6B53@xxxxxx
> >> >I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
> >> > please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.
> >> >
> >> > My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
> >> > with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
> >> > graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
> >> > machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
> >> > noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
> >> > Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
> >> > move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
> >> > and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.
> >> >
> >> > At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
> >> > returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
> >> > email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
> >> > installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
> >> > lock-up.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
> >> > installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
> >> > fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
> >> > well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
> >> > malware being discovered.
> >> >
> >> > I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
> >> > uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
> >> > help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
> >> > appreciated.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance.
> >>

>

Yes I have a few suggestions and unless your drivers are totally
up to date you are wasting both our times. The reason I first wanted
to be sure you had actually updates all drivers is that with both a
new system and a new OS there are just too many variables and you
have to start cutting them out it a logical sequence. Double check to
ensure there are NO hard drive utilities left off by system maker,
this happens often with new drives and one symptom is hangs when
running disk intensive programs.

Have you installed these updates that improves the compatibility and
reliability of Windows Vista

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938979

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938194

The most common reason for the problem you describe are Mouse and
Video Drivers with hard disk drivers/utilities being a close third.

Go into your BIOS and turn OFF USB Legacy Support. You
don't need this unless you have some older USB devices. Even
if you do have some try it as test.

There is always a possibity that you have a startup or other running
programs that are in conflict and causing the issue.

Startup Programs - Enable / Disable - Windows Defender - MSCONFIG
Startup Programs - Enable or Disable

A simple method to test this is to CLOSE all you can in Task Manager and
then check to see if still there. (CTRL + ALT + DEL)

How to troubleshoot Video Issues in Office
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907349/en-us

To eliminate another real possibilty try using only 1/2 your
RAM at a time. If they both work put the RAM back in
in the REVERSE manner...... slot 1 in slot 2 and so on.
This will work if the cause was one stick is slower than
the other (even if both are rated same).


"MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:7321C3BB-CE79-4105-9D25-830CDE11959A@xxxxxx

> I'm not 100% certain of your point. Since 95% of my new custom machine is
> Intel, yes, I updated the system with all the most current drivers from
> Intel. I also updated the ATI driver with the latest from ATI. If it isn't
> Intel or ATI, it came from MS, which is also up to date.
>
> Do you have specific suggestions, or are you just baiting. If its the
> former, I'm all ears; otherwise, please don't waste my time.
>
> "Spirit" wrote:
>

>> So you have totally updated ALL your drivers? or just those
>> easy to find?
>>
>> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:179EE892-632B-445D-A684-FB6037AE4204@xxxxxx

>> > Thanks Spirit, I've already made those rounds.
>> >
>> > I did find one mouse related hotfix but it is not a very close match.
>> > Besides it is a pita to obtain hotfixes from Microsoft.
>> >
>> > "Spirit" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Go to various maker's site and update all the drivers and utilities.
>> >> Many Video and BT drivers have been updated in the last
>> >> few weeks.
>> >>
>> >> If still an issue check the Microsoft Knowledge Base as there
>> >> are possible hotfix's that might apply.
>> >>
>> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:A343476D-0010-4216-848F-61CEF05E6B53@xxxxxx
>> >> >I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
>> >> > please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.
>> >> >
>> >> > My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
>> >> > with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
>> >> > graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
>> >> > machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
>> >> > noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
>> >> > Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
>> >> > move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
>> >> > and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.
>> >> >
>> >> > At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
>> >> > returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
>> >> > email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
>> >> > installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
>> >> > lock-up.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
>> >> > installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
>> >> > fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
>> >> > well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
>> >> > malware being discovered.
>> >> >
>> >> > I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
>> >> > uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
>> >> > help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
>> >> > appreciated.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks in advance.
>> >>

>>

As I've stated several times, all drivers are current. MS updates have been
applied [yes, including the 2 you mentioned]. I just completed a second
3-hours of memory diagnostics with the latest version of memtest86+ - no
errors. Since I was the system maker I can attest that no 'disk drive
utilities' linger. Further, the system will freeze with no discernable disk
activity.

As I also mentioned, I have eliminated USB devices because I suspected there
might be a connection. However, BIOS still has Legacy support enabled, so
I'll change that.

The following is unclear: "A simple method to test this is to CLOSE all you
can in Task Manager and then check to see if still there. (CTRL + ALT + DEL)"
- if what is still there?


"Spirit" wrote:

> Yes I have a few suggestions and unless your drivers are totally
> up to date you are wasting both our times. The reason I first wanted
> to be sure you had actually updates all drivers is that with both a
> new system and a new OS there are just too many variables and you
> have to start cutting them out it a logical sequence. Double check to
> ensure there are NO hard drive utilities left off by system maker,
> this happens often with new drives and one symptom is hangs when
> running disk intensive programs.
>
> Have you installed these updates that improves the compatibility and
> reliability of Windows Vista
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938979
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938194
>
> The most common reason for the problem you describe are Mouse and
> Video Drivers with hard disk drivers/utilities being a close third.
>
> Go into your BIOS and turn OFF USB Legacy Support. You
> don't need this unless you have some older USB devices. Even
> if you do have some try it as test.
>
> There is always a possibity that you have a startup or other running
> programs that are in conflict and causing the issue.
>
> Startup Programs - Enable / Disable - Windows Defender - MSCONFIG
> Startup Programs - Enable or Disable
>
> A simple method to test this is to CLOSE all you can in Task Manager and
> then check to see if still there. (CTRL + ALT + DEL)
>
> How to troubleshoot Video Issues in Office
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907349/en-us
>
> To eliminate another real possibilty try using only 1/2 your
> RAM at a time. If they both work put the RAM back in
> in the REVERSE manner...... slot 1 in slot 2 and so on.
> This will work if the cause was one stick is slower than
> the other (even if both are rated same).
>
>
> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:7321C3BB-CE79-4105-9D25-830CDE11959A@xxxxxx

> > I'm not 100% certain of your point. Since 95% of my new custom machine is
> > Intel, yes, I updated the system with all the most current drivers from
> > Intel. I also updated the ATI driver with the latest from ATI. If it isn't
> > Intel or ATI, it came from MS, which is also up to date.
> >
> > Do you have specific suggestions, or are you just baiting. If its the
> > former, I'm all ears; otherwise, please don't waste my time.
> >
> > "Spirit" wrote:
> >

> >> So you have totally updated ALL your drivers? or just those
> >> easy to find?
> >>
> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:179EE892-632B-445D-A684-FB6037AE4204@xxxxxx
> >> > Thanks Spirit, I've already made those rounds.
> >> >
> >> > I did find one mouse related hotfix but it is not a very close match.
> >> > Besides it is a pita to obtain hotfixes from Microsoft.
> >> >
> >> > "Spirit" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Go to various maker's site and update all the drivers and utilities.
> >> >> Many Video and BT drivers have been updated in the last
> >> >> few weeks.
> >> >>
> >> >> If still an issue check the Microsoft Knowledge Base as there
> >> >> are possible hotfix's that might apply.
> >> >>
> >> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:A343476D-0010-4216-848F-61CEF05E6B53@xxxxxx
> >> >> >I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
> >> >> > please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
> >> >> > with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
> >> >> > graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
> >> >> > machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
> >> >> > noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
> >> >> > Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
> >> >> > move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
> >> >> > and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
> >> >> > returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
> >> >> > email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
> >> >> > installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
> >> >> > lock-up.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
> >> >> > installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
> >> >> > fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
> >> >> > well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
> >> >> > malware being discovered.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
> >> >> > uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
> >> >> > help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
> >> >> > appreciated.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks in advance.
> >> >>
> >>

>

Memory tests will NOT check what I suggested.... the only way
is as I described. Use one stick then the other and then try
reversing their order. It only takes a very subtle difference
in memory speed to create a condition such as you have.

After the above, use Task Manager to Close as many programs
as you can and then see if the problem continues. If you close
most and the problem does stop use Defender and MSCONFIG
to vary what loads and maybe you can find what if anything is
causing your conflict. The reason you do the others first is that
such an issue can be caused by one problem and aggravated
by others.

Please realize that even the most experienced system makers
occasionally make a slight error that causes problems. Double
and triple check your hard drive maker's site to absolutely
ensure that they do not recommend some sort of utility be
run, sometimes its a one time event until the next format. With
super size disks these are not as uncommon as you might think
and often they are harder to access than is reasonable. One
indicator, though not 100% guarantee, is if the drives show
a different formatted capacity than is normally expected.

Another test is to run Sandra or other bench marks to compare
the results to see if the drives are as responsive as they should
be. Often such tests will do a quick or an extensive test, please
run the extensive versions.

Another real possibility, as crazy as this sounds, is to double
check all cable connections. Actually remove them and then
reconnect. Do not just try to snug them up. Another test is
to remove all the hardware you can, such as a modem, the
CD, DVD, 2nd hard disk (if possible) and so on and then
try to see if the problem still exists. Do you by chance have
a RAID setup?

One of the problems in trying to suggest what you should do
and in what order is I can't see the results of any methods as
you do them. With experience comes the ability to "occasionally"
hit on the right fix because of some subtle results of what might
be considered a waste of effort test.

KISS = Keep it Simple Stupid is the creedo of a modern
troubleshooter. Meaning try to reduce the complexity to
the simplest possible and start from there. Of course much
easier to say than actually do.

"MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message newsE1925FB-C909-4304-8EA7-39E7813133FA@xxxxxx

> As I've stated several times, all drivers are current. MS updates have been
> applied [yes, including the 2 you mentioned]. I just completed a second
> 3-hours of memory diagnostics with the latest version of memtest86+ - no
> errors. Since I was the system maker I can attest that no 'disk drive
> utilities' linger. Further, the system will freeze with no discernable disk
> activity.
>
> As I also mentioned, I have eliminated USB devices because I suspected there
> might be a connection. However, BIOS still has Legacy support enabled, so
> I'll change that.
>
> The following is unclear: "A simple method to test this is to CLOSE all you
> can in Task Manager and then check to see if still there. (CTRL + ALT + DEL)"
> - if what is still there?
>
>
> "Spirit" wrote:
>

>> Yes I have a few suggestions and unless your drivers are totally
>> up to date you are wasting both our times. The reason I first wanted
>> to be sure you had actually updates all drivers is that with both a
>> new system and a new OS there are just too many variables and you
>> have to start cutting them out it a logical sequence. Double check to
>> ensure there are NO hard drive utilities left off by system maker,
>> this happens often with new drives and one symptom is hangs when
>> running disk intensive programs.
>>
>> Have you installed these updates that improves the compatibility and
>> reliability of Windows Vista
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938979
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938194
>>
>> The most common reason for the problem you describe are Mouse and
>> Video Drivers with hard disk drivers/utilities being a close third.
>>
>> Go into your BIOS and turn OFF USB Legacy Support. You
>> don't need this unless you have some older USB devices. Even
>> if you do have some try it as test.
>>
>> There is always a possibity that you have a startup or other running
>> programs that are in conflict and causing the issue.
>>
>> Startup Programs - Enable / Disable - Windows Defender - MSCONFIG
>> Startup Programs - Enable or Disable
>>
>> A simple method to test this is to CLOSE all you can in Task Manager and
>> then check to see if still there. (CTRL + ALT + DEL)
>>
>> How to troubleshoot Video Issues in Office
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907349/en-us
>>
>> To eliminate another real possibilty try using only 1/2 your
>> RAM at a time. If they both work put the RAM back in
>> in the REVERSE manner...... slot 1 in slot 2 and so on.
>> This will work if the cause was one stick is slower than
>> the other (even if both are rated same).
>>
>>
>> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:7321C3BB-CE79-4105-9D25-830CDE11959A@xxxxxx

>> > I'm not 100% certain of your point. Since 95% of my new custom machine is
>> > Intel, yes, I updated the system with all the most current drivers from
>> > Intel. I also updated the ATI driver with the latest from ATI. If it isn't
>> > Intel or ATI, it came from MS, which is also up to date.
>> >
>> > Do you have specific suggestions, or are you just baiting. If its the
>> > former, I'm all ears; otherwise, please don't waste my time.
>> >
>> > "Spirit" wrote:
>> >
>> >> So you have totally updated ALL your drivers? or just those
>> >> easy to find?
>> >>
>> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:179EE892-632B-445D-A684-FB6037AE4204@xxxxxx
>> >> > Thanks Spirit, I've already made those rounds.
>> >> >
>> >> > I did find one mouse related hotfix but it is not a very close match.
>> >> > Besides it is a pita to obtain hotfixes from Microsoft.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Spirit" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Go to various maker's site and update all the drivers and utilities.
>> >> >> Many Video and BT drivers have been updated in the last
>> >> >> few weeks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If still an issue check the Microsoft Knowledge Base as there
>> >> >> are possible hotfix's that might apply.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:A343476D-0010-4216-848F-61CEF05E6B53@xxxxxx
>> >> >> >I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
>> >> >> > please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
>> >> >> > with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
>> >> >> > graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
>> >> >> > machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
>> >> >> > noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
>> >> >> > Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
>> >> >> > move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
>> >> >> > and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
>> >> >> > returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
>> >> >> > email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
>> >> >> > installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
>> >> >> > lock-up.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
>> >> >> > installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
>> >> >> > fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
>> >> >> > well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
>> >> >> > malware being discovered.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
>> >> >> > uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
>> >> >> > help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
>> >> >> > appreciated.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks in advance.
>> >> >>
>> >>

>>

Thanks for your extensive reply. I'll be conducting the memory test you
suggest later today, and I'll check the Seagate site for any clues there.
I've already ended many of the non-critical processes from TM and will
monitor that throughout the day today.

I did have a RAID 1 setup, but I reverted to 'IDE' mode [bios] because of
the extensive verify time with each machine lock-up. The two Seagate 320s
are running independently since Saturday.

I'll keep you posted, thanks again.

"Spirit" wrote:

> Memory tests will NOT check what I suggested.... the only way
> is as I described. Use one stick then the other and then try
> reversing their order. It only takes a very subtle difference
> in memory speed to create a condition such as you have.
>
> After the above, use Task Manager to Close as many programs
> as you can and then see if the problem continues. If you close
> most and the problem does stop use Defender and MSCONFIG
> to vary what loads and maybe you can find what if anything is
> causing your conflict. The reason you do the others first is that
> such an issue can be caused by one problem and aggravated
> by others.
>
> Please realize that even the most experienced system makers
> occasionally make a slight error that causes problems. Double
> and triple check your hard drive maker's site to absolutely
> ensure that they do not recommend some sort of utility be
> run, sometimes its a one time event until the next format. With
> super size disks these are not as uncommon as you might think
> and often they are harder to access than is reasonable. One
> indicator, though not 100% guarantee, is if the drives show
> a different formatted capacity than is normally expected.
>
> Another test is to run Sandra or other bench marks to compare
> the results to see if the drives are as responsive as they should
> be. Often such tests will do a quick or an extensive test, please
> run the extensive versions.
>
> Another real possibility, as crazy as this sounds, is to double
> check all cable connections. Actually remove them and then
> reconnect. Do not just try to snug them up. Another test is
> to remove all the hardware you can, such as a modem, the
> CD, DVD, 2nd hard disk (if possible) and so on and then
> try to see if the problem still exists. Do you by chance have
> a RAID setup?
>
> One of the problems in trying to suggest what you should do
> and in what order is I can't see the results of any methods as
> you do them. With experience comes the ability to "occasionally"
> hit on the right fix because of some subtle results of what might
> be considered a waste of effort test.
>
> KISS = Keep it Simple Stupid is the creedo of a modern
> troubleshooter. Meaning try to reduce the complexity to
> the simplest possible and start from there. Of course much
> easier to say than actually do.
>
> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message newsE1925FB-C909-4304-8EA7-39E7813133FA@xxxxxx

> > As I've stated several times, all drivers are current. MS updates have been
> > applied [yes, including the 2 you mentioned]. I just completed a second
> > 3-hours of memory diagnostics with the latest version of memtest86+ - no
> > errors. Since I was the system maker I can attest that no 'disk drive
> > utilities' linger. Further, the system will freeze with no discernable disk
> > activity.
> >
> > As I also mentioned, I have eliminated USB devices because I suspected there
> > might be a connection. However, BIOS still has Legacy support enabled, so
> > I'll change that.
> >
> > The following is unclear: "A simple method to test this is to CLOSE all you
> > can in Task Manager and then check to see if still there. (CTRL + ALT + DEL)"
> > - if what is still there?
> >
> >
> > "Spirit" wrote:
> >

> >> Yes I have a few suggestions and unless your drivers are totally
> >> up to date you are wasting both our times. The reason I first wanted
> >> to be sure you had actually updates all drivers is that with both a
> >> new system and a new OS there are just too many variables and you
> >> have to start cutting them out it a logical sequence. Double check to
> >> ensure there are NO hard drive utilities left off by system maker,
> >> this happens often with new drives and one symptom is hangs when
> >> running disk intensive programs.
> >>
> >> Have you installed these updates that improves the compatibility and
> >> reliability of Windows Vista
> >>
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938979
> >>
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938194
> >>
> >> The most common reason for the problem you describe are Mouse and
> >> Video Drivers with hard disk drivers/utilities being a close third.
> >>
> >> Go into your BIOS and turn OFF USB Legacy Support. You
> >> don't need this unless you have some older USB devices. Even
> >> if you do have some try it as test.
> >>
> >> There is always a possibity that you have a startup or other running
> >> programs that are in conflict and causing the issue.
> >>
> >> Startup Programs - Enable / Disable - Windows Defender - MSCONFIG
> >> Startup Programs - Enable or Disable
> >>
> >> A simple method to test this is to CLOSE all you can in Task Manager and
> >> then check to see if still there. (CTRL + ALT + DEL)
> >>
> >> How to troubleshoot Video Issues in Office
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907349/en-us
> >>
> >> To eliminate another real possibilty try using only 1/2 your
> >> RAM at a time. If they both work put the RAM back in
> >> in the REVERSE manner...... slot 1 in slot 2 and so on.
> >> This will work if the cause was one stick is slower than
> >> the other (even if both are rated same).
> >>
> >>
> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:7321C3BB-CE79-4105-9D25-830CDE11959A@xxxxxx
> >> > I'm not 100% certain of your point. Since 95% of my new custom machine is
> >> > Intel, yes, I updated the system with all the most current drivers from
> >> > Intel. I also updated the ATI driver with the latest from ATI. If it isn't
> >> > Intel or ATI, it came from MS, which is also up to date.
> >> >
> >> > Do you have specific suggestions, or are you just baiting. If its the
> >> > former, I'm all ears; otherwise, please don't waste my time.
> >> >
> >> > "Spirit" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> So you have totally updated ALL your drivers? or just those
> >> >> easy to find?
> >> >>
> >> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:179EE892-632B-445D-A684-FB6037AE4204@xxxxxx
> >> >> > Thanks Spirit, I've already made those rounds.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I did find one mouse related hotfix but it is not a very close match.
> >> >> > Besides it is a pita to obtain hotfixes from Microsoft.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Spirit" wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Go to various maker's site and update all the drivers and utilities.
> >> >> >> Many Video and BT drivers have been updated in the last
> >> >> >> few weeks.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If still an issue check the Microsoft Knowledge Base as there
> >> >> >> are possible hotfix's that might apply.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:A343476D-0010-4216-848F-61CEF05E6B53@xxxxxx
> >> >> >> >I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
> >> >> >> > please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
> >> >> >> > with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
> >> >> >> > graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
> >> >> >> > machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
> >> >> >> > noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
> >> >> >> > Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
> >> >> >> > move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
> >> >> >> > and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
> >> >> >> > returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
> >> >> >> > email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
> >> >> >> > installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
> >> >> >> > lock-up.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
> >> >> >> > installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
> >> >> >> > fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
> >> >> >> > well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
> >> >> >> > malware being discovered.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
> >> >> >> > uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
> >> >> >> > help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
> >> >> >> > appreciated.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks in advance.
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>

>

I strongly suspect that it is your previous RAID setup that
might be at the heart of this issue, Note how I have been
preaching about hard drive utilities all along. Double check
that you have followed the suggested removal method. Did
you reformat and re-install? Be sure to test with only one
drive running as well.

Yes please let me know how it goes.....

"MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news6C2773C-F507-491D-B214-9ED9953F4C54@xxxxxx

> Thanks for your extensive reply. I'll be conducting the memory test you
> suggest later today, and I'll check the Seagate site for any clues there.
> I've already ended many of the non-critical processes from TM and will
> monitor that throughout the day today.
>
> I did have a RAID 1 setup, but I reverted to 'IDE' mode [bios] because of
> the extensive verify time with each machine lock-up. The two Seagate 320s
> are running independently since Saturday.
>
> I'll keep you posted, thanks again.
>
> "Spirit" wrote:
>

>> Memory tests will NOT check what I suggested.... the only way
>> is as I described. Use one stick then the other and then try
>> reversing their order. It only takes a very subtle difference
>> in memory speed to create a condition such as you have.
>>
>> After the above, use Task Manager to Close as many programs
>> as you can and then see if the problem continues. If you close
>> most and the problem does stop use Defender and MSCONFIG
>> to vary what loads and maybe you can find what if anything is
>> causing your conflict. The reason you do the others first is that
>> such an issue can be caused by one problem and aggravated
>> by others.
>>
>> Please realize that even the most experienced system makers
>> occasionally make a slight error that causes problems. Double
>> and triple check your hard drive maker's site to absolutely
>> ensure that they do not recommend some sort of utility be
>> run, sometimes its a one time event until the next format. With
>> super size disks these are not as uncommon as you might think
>> and often they are harder to access than is reasonable. One
>> indicator, though not 100% guarantee, is if the drives show
>> a different formatted capacity than is normally expected.
>>
>> Another test is to run Sandra or other bench marks to compare
>> the results to see if the drives are as responsive as they should
>> be. Often such tests will do a quick or an extensive test, please
>> run the extensive versions.
>>
>> Another real possibility, as crazy as this sounds, is to double
>> check all cable connections. Actually remove them and then
>> reconnect. Do not just try to snug them up. Another test is
>> to remove all the hardware you can, such as a modem, the
>> CD, DVD, 2nd hard disk (if possible) and so on and then
>> try to see if the problem still exists. Do you by chance have
>> a RAID setup?
>>
>> One of the problems in trying to suggest what you should do
>> and in what order is I can't see the results of any methods as
>> you do them. With experience comes the ability to "occasionally"
>> hit on the right fix because of some subtle results of what might
>> be considered a waste of effort test.
>>
>> KISS = Keep it Simple Stupid is the creedo of a modern
>> troubleshooter. Meaning try to reduce the complexity to
>> the simplest possible and start from there. Of course much
>> easier to say than actually do.
>>
>> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message newsE1925FB-C909-4304-8EA7-39E7813133FA@xxxxxx

>> > As I've stated several times, all drivers are current. MS updates have been
>> > applied [yes, including the 2 you mentioned]. I just completed a second
>> > 3-hours of memory diagnostics with the latest version of memtest86+ - no
>> > errors. Since I was the system maker I can attest that no 'disk drive
>> > utilities' linger. Further, the system will freeze with no discernable disk
>> > activity.
>> >
>> > As I also mentioned, I have eliminated USB devices because I suspected there
>> > might be a connection. However, BIOS still has Legacy support enabled, so
>> > I'll change that.
>> >
>> > The following is unclear: "A simple method to test this is to CLOSE all you
>> > can in Task Manager and then check to see if still there. (CTRL + ALT + DEL)"
>> > - if what is still there?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Spirit" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Yes I have a few suggestions and unless your drivers are totally
>> >> up to date you are wasting both our times. The reason I first wanted
>> >> to be sure you had actually updates all drivers is that with both a
>> >> new system and a new OS there are just too many variables and you
>> >> have to start cutting them out it a logical sequence. Double check to
>> >> ensure there are NO hard drive utilities left off by system maker,
>> >> this happens often with new drives and one symptom is hangs when
>> >> running disk intensive programs.
>> >>
>> >> Have you installed these updates that improves the compatibility and
>> >> reliability of Windows Vista
>> >>
>> >> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938979
>> >>
>> >> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938194
>> >>
>> >> The most common reason for the problem you describe are Mouse and
>> >> Video Drivers with hard disk drivers/utilities being a close third.
>> >>
>> >> Go into your BIOS and turn OFF USB Legacy Support. You
>> >> don't need this unless you have some older USB devices. Even
>> >> if you do have some try it as test.
>> >>
>> >> There is always a possibity that you have a startup or other running
>> >> programs that are in conflict and causing the issue.
>> >>
>> >> Startup Programs - Enable / Disable - Windows Defender - MSCONFIG
>> >> Startup Programs - Enable or Disable
>> >>
>> >> A simple method to test this is to CLOSE all you can in Task Manager and
>> >> then check to see if still there. (CTRL + ALT + DEL)
>> >>
>> >> How to troubleshoot Video Issues in Office
>> >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907349/en-us
>> >>
>> >> To eliminate another real possibilty try using only 1/2 your
>> >> RAM at a time. If they both work put the RAM back in
>> >> in the REVERSE manner...... slot 1 in slot 2 and so on.
>> >> This will work if the cause was one stick is slower than
>> >> the other (even if both are rated same).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:7321C3BB-CE79-4105-9D25-830CDE11959A@xxxxxx
>> >> > I'm not 100% certain of your point. Since 95% of my new custom machine is
>> >> > Intel, yes, I updated the system with all the most current drivers from
>> >> > Intel. I also updated the ATI driver with the latest from ATI. If it isn't
>> >> > Intel or ATI, it came from MS, which is also up to date.
>> >> >
>> >> > Do you have specific suggestions, or are you just baiting. If its the
>> >> > former, I'm all ears; otherwise, please don't waste my time.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Spirit" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> So you have totally updated ALL your drivers? or just those
>> >> >> easy to find?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:179EE892-632B-445D-A684-FB6037AE4204@xxxxxx
>> >> >> > Thanks Spirit, I've already made those rounds.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I did find one mouse related hotfix but it is not a very close match.
>> >> >> > Besides it is a pita to obtain hotfixes from Microsoft.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Spirit" wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Go to various maker's site and update all the drivers and utilities.
>> >> >> >> Many Video and BT drivers have been updated in the last
>> >> >> >> few weeks.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> If still an issue check the Microsoft Knowledge Base as there
>> >> >> >> are possible hotfix's that might apply.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "MoosieAZ" <MoosieAZ@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:A343476D-0010-4216-848F-61CEF05E6B53@xxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >I just posted this in the general area which may have been a mistake, so
>> >> >> >> > please accept my apology in advance; I'm relatively new at this posting stuff.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > My environment is Vista Ultimate running on an Intel D975XBX2 motherboard
>> >> >> >> > with an E6600 Core 2 Duo processor and 2GB of DDR2-PC6400 [800] memory; the
>> >> >> >> > graphics card is an ATI Radeon X1950 Pro-512MB. The situation is that the
>> >> >> >> > machine will freeze at different times [requiring a hard shutdown] most
>> >> >> >> > noticeably when I have double clicked on something. At first I suspected my
>> >> >> >> > Microsoft Desktop Elite mouse/keyboard for Bluetooth because the mouse would
>> >> >> >> > move erratically at times. I eliminated the Bluetooth devices [and dongle]
>> >> >> >> > and switched to a PS/2 keyboard and a USB wheel mouse.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > At first the problem seemed to go away, but that was misleading; it has
>> >> >> >> > returned with a vengeance. Just opening Outlook 2003 and clicking to open an
>> >> >> >> > email can often trigger the freeze. I have now eliminated all USB devices by
>> >> >> >> > installing a reliable PS/2 mouse. It has now been two hours without a
>> >> >> >> > lock-up.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Yes, I have already installed the most current Intel BIOS and my Vista
>> >> >> >> > installation is current with updates, including the reliability / performance
>> >> >> >> > fixes released two weeks ago. Yes, I run an up-to-date CA A/V application as
>> >> >> >> > well as CounterSpy, and have run several different online scans without any
>> >> >> >> > malware being discovered.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I certainly suspect driver involvement, especially the USB drivers, but I am
>> >> >> >> > uncertain how to proceed, or how to diagnose this problem any further. Any
>> >> >> >> > help from the driver and/or Intel experts out there will be most greatly
>> >> >> >> > appreciated.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Thanks in advance.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>

>>