Vista - Can I do a clean install using the Retail Upgrade DVD

I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade Vista
DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I format
the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just to
immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically clean
installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that when
I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe out
my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or some
other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of hours
installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?

If you wish to perform a "real" clean install of
Windows Vista, then purchase a "Full Version"
of Windows Vista. Upgrade means exactly that:
Upgrade.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"arknu" wrote:

I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade Vista
DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I
format
the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just to
immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically clean
installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that
when
I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe
out
my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or
some
other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of hours
installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?

Yes, I buy the upgrade version because I HAVE the existing software, not
because I want to upgrade my current installation. ALL other upgrade packages
for software (including expensive ones like Adobe Creative Suite 2) just
require proof that you own the previous product - by inserting the cd OR
validating a current installation which is kept after the upgrade.

"Carey Frisch [MVP}" wrote:

> If you wish to perform a "real" clean install of
> Windows Vista, then purchase a "Full Version"
> of Windows Vista. Upgrade means exactly that:
> Upgrade.
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows - Shell/User
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "arknu" wrote:
>
> I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade Vista
> DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I
> format
> the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
> Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just to
> immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
> install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically clean
> installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that
> when
> I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe
> out
> my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or
> some
> other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of hours
> installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
> instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
> Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
> price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?
>

With vista upgrade you cant do this anymore you must start install from
within an installed and activated xp.
If you want to keep xp you need the full version. This is another reason to
get the full version because with the upgrade your xp licence gets merged
into vista so xp will become redundant. This is why an upgrade is cheaper.

To avoid installing xp later on when you reinstall vista upgrade why dont
you make a ghost image of your drive after you install vista. When
installing vista upgrade just choose custom install this will repace your
windows dir and rename your old one to window.old. So its still clean
install so to speak

Ken

"arknu" <arknu@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F7CE4080-A9A0-4A64-859F-C034C3FE35C3@microsoft.com...
> Yes, I buy the upgrade version because I HAVE the existing software, not
> because I want to upgrade my current installation. ALL other upgrade
> packages
> for software (including expensive ones like Adobe Creative Suite 2) just
> require proof that you own the previous product - by inserting the cd OR
> validating a current installation which is kept after the upgrade.
>
> "Carey Frisch [MVP}" wrote:
>
>> If you wish to perform a "real" clean install of
>> Windows Vista, then purchase a "Full Version"
>> of Windows Vista. Upgrade means exactly that:
>> Upgrade.
>>
>> --
>> Carey Frisch
>> Microsoft MVP
>> Windows - Shell/User
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "arknu" wrote:
>>
>> I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade
>> Vista
>> DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I
>> format
>> the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
>> Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just
>> to
>> immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
>> install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically
>> clean
>> installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that
>> when
>> I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe
>> out
>> my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or
>> some
>> other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of
>> hours
>> installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
>> instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
>> Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
>> price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?
>>

So this is a change from the XP Upgrade procedure where I could clean my HD,
start the XP Upgrade CD, insert my 98 or ME or 2000 CD, have it read and
removed, and away we go.
No problem.
Our MVP says we can't do this with Vista?
Pete

"Ken" wrote:

> With vista upgrade you cant do this anymore you must start install from
> within an installed and activated xp.
> If you want to keep xp you need the full version. This is another reason to
> get the full version because with the upgrade your xp licence gets merged
> into vista so xp will become redundant. This is why an upgrade is cheaper.
>
> To avoid installing xp later on when you reinstall vista upgrade why dont
> you make a ghost image of your drive after you install vista. When
> installing vista upgrade just choose custom install this will repace your
> windows dir and rename your old one to window.old. So its still clean
> install so to speak
>
> Ken
>
> "arknu" <arknu@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:F7CE4080-A9A0-4A64-859F-C034C3FE35C3@microsoft.com...
> > Yes, I buy the upgrade version because I HAVE the existing software, not
> > because I want to upgrade my current installation. ALL other upgrade
> > packages
> > for software (including expensive ones like Adobe Creative Suite 2) just
> > require proof that you own the previous product - by inserting the cd OR
> > validating a current installation which is kept after the upgrade.
> >
> > "Carey Frisch [MVP}" wrote:
> >
> >> If you wish to perform a "real" clean install of
> >> Windows Vista, then purchase a "Full Version"
> >> of Windows Vista. Upgrade means exactly that:
> >> Upgrade.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Carey Frisch
> >> Microsoft MVP
> >> Windows - Shell/User
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> "arknu" wrote:
> >>
> >> I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade
> >> Vista
> >> DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I
> >> format
> >> the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
> >> Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just
> >> to
> >> immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
> >> install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically
> >> clean
> >> installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that
> >> when
> >> I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe
> >> out
> >> my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or
> >> some
> >> other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of
> >> hours
> >> installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
> >> instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
> >> Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
> >> price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?
> >>
>
>

Does this also mean that the upgrade version MUST be installed on the same
partition/harddrive as Windows XP? For instance, what if XP was installed on
a 15 GB partition and I had either bought a new harddrive or had a larger
partition since Vista is much larger than XP. Would I have to install Windows
XP on that partition/harddrive to be eligible to install Vista? I'm not crazy
about how they modified the upgrade versions as it creates some new problems.

It depends on whether you are installing Vista x86 or x64.

If you are installing Vista x86 with an upgrade edition product key, then
you must run Setup from the legacy Windows desktop. Since you are running
the legacy Windows OS the system partition is locked and you cannot format.
Microsoft doesn't care whether or not you reformat, it just isn't
technically possible to format the system drive of a running OS. This is
why the Advanced Options button does not appear when you have started Setup
from a desktop.

If you are installing Vista x64 with an upgrade edition pk, you are not
required to run from the legacy Windows desktop so the legacy system is not
running and its system partition is therefore not locked. The Advanced
Options button does appear and you should be able to format the system drive
before installing Vista since Vista Setup has verified the installation of a
qualifying legacy Windows OS on the computer at the time you entered the pk.
(XP Pro x64 users have the option of starting the Vista x64 Setup by booting
with the dvd or by running it from the desktop.)


"arknu" <arknu@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1D2F5B69-EC47-4F4D-99FE-3FBE6050B575@microsoft.com...
>I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade
>Vista
> DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I
> format
> the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
> Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just
> to
> immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
> install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically
> clean
> installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that
> when
> I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe
> out
> my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or
> some
> other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of
> hours
> installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
> instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
> Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
> price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?

That only applies to Vista x86. Vista x64 upgrade editions can be installed
by booting with the dvd. After all, the 64bit version of Setup won't run on
an x86 operating system so it could not run on a Win2k or XP SP2 desktop.

"Ken" <notforu@sothere.com> wrote in message
news:eoh8LBCQHHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> With vista upgrade you cant do this anymore you must start install from
> within an installed and activated xp.
> If you want to keep xp you need the full version. This is another reason
> to get the full version because with the upgrade your xp licence gets
> merged into vista so xp will become redundant. This is why an upgrade is
> cheaper.
>
> To avoid installing xp later on when you reinstall vista upgrade why dont
> you make a ghost image of your drive after you install vista. When
> installing vista upgrade just choose custom install this will repace your
> windows dir and rename your old one to window.old. So its still clean
> install so to speak
>
> Ken

You can install XP that way. You just cannot bypass installing XP by using
your Win98 cd directly to install Vista itself. I don't like the sounds of
a two or three tiered installation, however, so I suggest that you avoid it.

"jbpete" <jbpete@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:379E8614-E098-4037-B675-DC80D056BD6B@microsoft.com...
> So this is a change from the XP Upgrade procedure where I could clean my
> HD,
> start the XP Upgrade CD, insert my 98 or ME or 2000 CD, have it read and
> removed, and away we go.
> No problem.
> Our MVP says we can't do this with Vista?
> Pete
>

Yes. Otherwise you would not be upgrading. You would be installing a new
OS in parallel with the old one.

The new methodology is designed to require an activated and genuine copy of
Windows in order to qualify for upgrade pricing. There is nothing activated
or genuine about a cd. Anybody can copy a cd. In fact users should copy
their installation media to protect their investment in the product. I
never use the original cd when reinstalling Windows.

"Jason Cambre" <JasonCambre@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:93B37314-A966-4205-A239-51A976619FA1@microsoft.com...
> Does this also mean that the upgrade version MUST be installed on the same
> partition/harddrive as Windows XP? For instance, what if XP was installed
> on
> a 15 GB partition and I had either bought a new harddrive or had a larger
> partition since Vista is much larger than XP. Would I have to install
> Windows
> XP on that partition/harddrive to be eligible to install Vista? I'm not
> crazy
> about how they modified the upgrade versions as it creates some new
> problems.