Vista - EFI Implementation on Vista

Could it be possible to natively install Windows Vista or Windows code name
Longhorn on Intel-based Mac if it implements EFI? I found some article that
Microsoft will implement EFI on next release of Windows Vista and also in
Windows code name Longhorn.

"Teeravee" <Teeravee@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote ...
> Could it be possible to natively install Windows Vista or Windows code
> name
> Longhorn on Intel-based Mac if it implements EFI? I found some article
> that
> Microsoft will implement EFI on next release of Windows Vista and also in
> Windows code name Longhorn.

Well there's EFI, and then there's EFI ...

Windows XP and Windows 2003 for Itanium already support EFI 1.0, today.
Likewise, Windows Server 2008 Beta for Itanium. So, there is some support
for EFI, as long as you have an Itanium machine (but, unless you're a
multi-million dollar company, or University .. you do not own any Itanium
machines).

However, the EFI 1.0 Specification has been superseded by the "Unified EFI"
spec, or UEFI. So far, no hardware shipping supports UEFI, so Vista does not
support it (yet). Apparently Microsoft plans to add UEFI support to Vista,
once the hardware is available (in a service pack or the like). See here
for grizzly details:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system.../efibrief.mspx

You can install Vista onto some Apple Mac hardware, which uses EFI. The only
way to do this is to use Apple's Bootcamp software. This adds a BIOS
emulator to the Apple EFI, which allows XP and Vista to boot normally:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/
Windows does not really take full advantage of the EFI in this situation,
because it thinks it's running on a BIOS machine.

In summary:
- you can install Windows onto Apple EFI hardware, by using Apple's
Bootcamp.
- you can install Windows for Itanium CPU, onto Itanium machines which use
EFI; Itanium machine are very rare.
- apart from these two cases, you cannot install any version of Windows onto
EFI hardware.
- Microsoft will add UEFI support to Windows in future, when UEFI hardware
starts shipping.

Hope it helps
Andrew

So you mean that although Intel-based MacBook uses EFI, Windows Vista (if
next release implement EFI) or Windows code name Longhorn cannot be installed
on it without helping of BootCamp. Am I correct?

"Andrew McLaren" wrote:

> "Teeravee" <Teeravee@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote ...
> > Could it be possible to natively install Windows Vista or Windows code
> > name
> > Longhorn on Intel-based Mac if it implements EFI? I found some article
> > that
> > Microsoft will implement EFI on next release of Windows Vista and also in
> > Windows code name Longhorn.
>
> Well there's EFI, and then there's EFI ...
>
> Windows XP and Windows 2003 for Itanium already support EFI 1.0, today.
> Likewise, Windows Server 2008 Beta for Itanium. So, there is some support
> for EFI, as long as you have an Itanium machine (but, unless you're a
> multi-million dollar company, or University .. you do not own any Itanium
> machines).
>
> However, the EFI 1.0 Specification has been superseded by the "Unified EFI"
> spec, or UEFI. So far, no hardware shipping supports UEFI, so Vista does not
> support it (yet). Apparently Microsoft plans to add UEFI support to Vista,
> once the hardware is available (in a service pack or the like). See here
> for grizzly details:
> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system.../efibrief.mspx
>
> You can install Vista onto some Apple Mac hardware, which uses EFI. The only
> way to do this is to use Apple's Bootcamp software. This adds a BIOS
> emulator to the Apple EFI, which allows XP and Vista to boot normally:
> http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/
> Windows does not really take full advantage of the EFI in this situation,
> because it thinks it's running on a BIOS machine.
>
> In summary:
> - you can install Windows onto Apple EFI hardware, by using Apple's
> Bootcamp.
> - you can install Windows for Itanium CPU, onto Itanium machines which use
> EFI; Itanium machine are very rare.
> - apart from these two cases, you cannot install any version of Windows onto
> EFI hardware.
> - Microsoft will add UEFI support to Windows in future, when UEFI hardware
> starts shipping.
>
> Hope it helps
> Andrew
>

"Teeravee" <Teeravee@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote ...
> So you mean that although Intel-based MacBook uses EFI, Windows Vista (if
> next release implement EFI) or Windows code name Longhorn cannot be
> installed
> on it without helping of BootCamp. Am I correct?

That is correct. Apple EFI machines can run XP or Vista, only by using
Bootcamp.

Apple distributed a firmware update as part of Bootcamp, and also available
for separate download. That update added the BIOS emulator to the Apple EFI.
*In theory*, with this update applied, an Apple machine could install and
boot Windows with no further changes. In practice, this would give a poor
experience to the user. You really need the device drivers from Bootcamp, to
let Windows run well on the Apple hardware (sound, graphics, performance
etc).

Most folks I have talked to about Bootcamp say it works pretty well. I
haven't heard of any reason not to use it. It will be a standard feature in
the next release of Mac OS X ("Leopard").

Hope it helps,
Andrew

So if BootCamp does not support x64 environment, it cannot run Windows Vista
64-bit?

"Andrew McLaren" wrote:

> "Teeravee" <Teeravee@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote ...
> > So you mean that although Intel-based MacBook uses EFI, Windows Vista (if
> > next release implement EFI) or Windows code name Longhorn cannot be
> > installed
> > on it without helping of BootCamp. Am I correct?
>
> That is correct. Apple EFI machines can run XP or Vista, only by using
> Bootcamp.
>
> Apple distributed a firmware update as part of Bootcamp, and also available
> for separate download. That update added the BIOS emulator to the Apple EFI.
> *In theory*, with this update applied, an Apple machine could install and
> boot Windows with no further changes. In practice, this would give a poor
> experience to the user. You really need the device drivers from Bootcamp, to
> let Windows run well on the Apple hardware (sound, graphics, performance
> etc).
>
> Most folks I have talked to about Bootcamp say it works pretty well. I
> haven't heard of any reason not to use it. It will be a standard feature in
> the next release of Mac OS X ("Leopard").
>
> Hope it helps,
> Andrew
>

"Teeravee" <Teeravee@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote ...
> So if BootCamp does not support x64 environment, it cannot run Windows
> Vista
> 64-bit?

That's correct.

I'm not sure of the current status of 64 bit Bootcamp. You'd need to ask in
a Bootcamp related forum, such as:
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1165

This is just the same as any other hardware. Microsoft is a software
company, not a PC manufacturer. Ever since Windows 1.0, they have relied on
hardware vendors to write Windows device drivers for their specific
hardware. If a computer manufacturer makes all the necessary drivers,
Windows will run great on their hardware. If the manufacturer does not
supply all the necessary drivers, the user will be limited to what they can
achieve using "generic" hardware drivers.

The big problem with 64 bit Windows on a Mac is not "will it install?". The
important question is "How would it run, once it is installed?" Without
Bootcamp you have no Apple drivers. If you have no Windows drivers from the
hardware manufacturer (Apple) you'll find that your experience is pretty
basic. Having just paid $5,000 (or whatever) for a new Mac, this will be
disappointing. You would get a better experience running Vista on a Dell, HP
or Acer machine costing $1,000, which all have great device driver support!
With Bootcamp, you get all the necessary drivers for a great experience
running Vista on Mac hardware (but maybe only 32 bit, so far).

I'm sure Apple will release a 64 bit version of Bootcamp eventually, if it
isn't available today.

So, what is your scenario? Do you already have a Macintosh EFI machine? And
you need to install 64 bit Windows Vista onto it?

If so, a workaround might be to use the new VMWare Fusion for Macintosh (see
http://www.vmware.com/beta/fusion). This allows you to run Windows in a
Virtual Machine, on Mac OS X. Fusion can create 64 bit virtual machines.
That way you get Mac OS X and Vista side-by-side! Sweet.

Apple was courageous in being an early adopter of EFI. Unfortunately, this
carried all the hazards of being an early adopter; including technological
dead-ends. EFI 1.0 and 1.1 are more or less, dead. The future lies in UEFI -
see http://www.uefi.org/home. Apple is member of the UEFI consortium. Vista
will support UEFI once hardware starts shipping; see
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system.../efibrief.mspx

Hope it helps,
Andrew