Vista - Vista POP3 Major Problem - Help MS

Hi,
We are having a major problem with POP3 in Vista. We are an ISP.
Vista does not download mail using pop3 if there are large mails or
attachments. Vista just states the server has timed out, we have tried
increasing the timeout value also.
We have installed a brand new installation of vista (with no anti-virus
software, firewall disabled etc).
When we try to download mail using pop3 (windows mail, outlook 2003,
thunderbird) from our mail server it just times out, if there is a mail with
an attachment or large email in the inbox.
I've tried using RAW telnet commands to connect and it just hangs when you
try to retrieve a message with attachments or large emails.
Every other OS/mail client combination works fine with our mail platform.
I have checked our external firewalls and cannot see any strange errors or
port usage. Just shows as pop3 connecting, the firewall isn't blocking
anything.
This is obviously a problem with Vista and how MS have used the pop3 code,
have they followed the RFC!!?
MS need to fix this but I can't find anything on their site about, but
plenty of people are having this problem.

This is extremely frustrating as our customers are starting to use Vista and
we cannot do anything to help them!!

They assume it is our fault, which it is not.

If anyone has a fix or suggestions please can you share them.

Many Thanks

Matt

My problem is that I cannot send messages that have a fille attached that is
more than a simple Word Doc. If i am sending anything around 3 - 5mb, it
just times out, kind of like you said. is this the same problem? and is
there no fix at this point?

"Matt_Gsy" wrote:

> Hi,
> We are having a major problem with POP3 in Vista. We are an ISP.
> Vista does not download mail using pop3 if there are large mails or
> attachments. Vista just states the server has timed out, we have tried
> increasing the timeout value also.
> We have installed a brand new installation of vista (with no anti-virus
> software, firewall disabled etc).
> When we try to download mail using pop3 (windows mail, outlook 2003,
> thunderbird) from our mail server it just times out, if there is a mail with
> an attachment or large email in the inbox.
> I've tried using RAW telnet commands to connect and it just hangs when you
> try to retrieve a message with attachments or large emails.
> Every other OS/mail client combination works fine with our mail platform.
> I have checked our external firewalls and cannot see any strange errors or
> port usage. Just shows as pop3 connecting, the firewall isn't blocking
> anything.
> This is obviously a problem with Vista and how MS have used the pop3 code,
> have they followed the RFC!!?
> MS need to fix this but I can't find anything on their site about, but
> plenty of people are having this problem.
>
> This is extremely frustrating as our customers are starting to use Vista and
> we cannot do anything to help them!!
>
> They assume it is our fault, which it is not.
>
> If anyone has a fix or suggestions please can you share them.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Matt
>

"Matt_Gsy" <MattGsy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:6BE1C775-EF54-429C-AFE4-C1009CE20F4D@microsoft.com...
> Hi,
> We are having a major problem with POP3 in Vista. We are an ISP.
> Vista does not download mail using pop3 if there are large mails or
> attachments. Vista just states the server has timed out, we have tried
> increasing the timeout value also.
> We have installed a brand new installation of vista (with no anti-virus
> software, firewall disabled etc).
> When we try to download mail using pop3 (windows mail, outlook 2003,
> thunderbird) from our mail server it just times out, if there is a mail
> with
> an attachment or large email in the inbox.
> I've tried using RAW telnet commands to connect and it just hangs when you
> try to retrieve a message with attachments or large emails.
> Every other OS/mail client combination works fine with our mail platform.
> I have checked our external firewalls and cannot see any strange errors or
> port usage. Just shows as pop3 connecting, the firewall isn't blocking
> anything.
> This is obviously a problem with Vista and how MS have used the pop3 code,
> have they followed the RFC!!?
> MS need to fix this but I can't find anything on their site about, but
> plenty of people are having this problem.
>
> This is extremely frustrating as our customers are starting to use Vista
> and
> we cannot do anything to help them!!
>
> They assume it is our fault, which it is not.
>
> If anyone has a fix or suggestions please can you share them.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Matt
>

This is usually caused by an anti-spam program or an anti-virus set to scan
email.

Have your customers turn off email scanning in their anti-virus. It
provides no added protection. After doing so it may be necessary to reset
the server names in OE.

The Other E-Mail Threat: File Corruption in Outlook Express
Published: November 18, 2004
By Tom Koch
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx

Email scanning slows down Sending and Receiving, sometimes enough that OE
times out. Since some of the received messages have large (often virus)
attachments, which exasperates the problem.
Some Comcast users have found it necessary to totally uninstall Norton and
switch to the free AVG with mail scanning off. Norton invented email
scanning and here's what they say:

"Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses
that
are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
the most recent virus definitions."
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...256c7500723cf0

"...your computer is protected if Auto-Protect is enabled. Auto-Protect
scans any incoming files, including email attachments, when the files are
saved to your hard drive."
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...01100907323806

"NAV provides multiple layers of protection. Email scanning is just one of
those layers. Even if you are not running Email Scanning, your computer is
protected against viruses that are distributed as email attachments by NAV
Auto-Protect. Auto-Protect will scan any incoming files, including email
attachments, as they are saved to your hard drive. To make sure that
Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep Auto-Protect enabled
and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have the most recent virus
definitions."
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...rc=bar_sch_nam

See also
http://help.expedient.com/mailnews/n...ntivirus.shtml

So Symantec used to say this often and clearly. The newer stuff doesn't
have the statement included as it was considered an embarrassment. If you
know anyone who programs for Norton try to get them to talk about it.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Answer in newsgroup. Don't expect an answer to email.

thanks for the detailed reply. unfortunately i have already turned off the
email scan feature, and it still will not send the emails with attachments
larger than a simple Word doc. any thoughts?

"Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM" wrote:

> "Matt_Gsy" <MattGsy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:6BE1C775-EF54-429C-AFE4-C1009CE20F4D@microsoft.com...
> > Hi,
> > We are having a major problem with POP3 in Vista. We are an ISP.
> > Vista does not download mail using pop3 if there are large mails or
> > attachments. Vista just states the server has timed out, we have tried
> > increasing the timeout value also.
> > We have installed a brand new installation of vista (with no anti-virus
> > software, firewall disabled etc).
> > When we try to download mail using pop3 (windows mail, outlook 2003,
> > thunderbird) from our mail server it just times out, if there is a mail
> > with
> > an attachment or large email in the inbox.
> > I've tried using RAW telnet commands to connect and it just hangs when you
> > try to retrieve a message with attachments or large emails.
> > Every other OS/mail client combination works fine with our mail platform.
> > I have checked our external firewalls and cannot see any strange errors or
> > port usage. Just shows as pop3 connecting, the firewall isn't blocking
> > anything.
> > This is obviously a problem with Vista and how MS have used the pop3 code,
> > have they followed the RFC!!?
> > MS need to fix this but I can't find anything on their site about, but
> > plenty of people are having this problem.
> >
> > This is extremely frustrating as our customers are starting to use Vista
> > and
> > we cannot do anything to help them!!
> >
> > They assume it is our fault, which it is not.
> >
> > If anyone has a fix or suggestions please can you share them.
> >
> > Many Thanks
> >
> > Matt
> >
>
> This is usually caused by an anti-spam program or an anti-virus set to scan
> email.
>
> Have your customers turn off email scanning in their anti-virus. It
> provides no added protection. After doing so it may be necessary to reset
> the server names in OE.
>
> The Other E-Mail Threat: File Corruption in Outlook Express
> Published: November 18, 2004
> By Tom Koch
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx
>
> Email scanning slows down Sending and Receiving, sometimes enough that OE
> times out. Since some of the received messages have large (often virus)
> attachments, which exasperates the problem.
> Some Comcast users have found it necessary to totally uninstall Norton and
> switch to the free AVG with mail scanning off. Norton invented email
> scanning and here's what they say:
>
> "Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses
> that
> are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
> incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
> email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
> make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
> Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
> the most recent virus definitions."
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...256c7500723cf0
>
> "...your computer is protected if Auto-Protect is enabled. Auto-Protect
> scans any incoming files, including email attachments, when the files are
> saved to your hard drive."
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...01100907323806
>
> "NAV provides multiple layers of protection. Email scanning is just one of
> those layers. Even if you are not running Email Scanning, your computer is
> protected against viruses that are distributed as email attachments by NAV
> Auto-Protect. Auto-Protect will scan any incoming files, including email
> attachments, as they are saved to your hard drive. To make sure that
> Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep Auto-Protect enabled
> and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have the most recent virus
> definitions."
> http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...rc=bar_sch_nam
>
> See also
> http://help.expedient.com/mailnews/n...ntivirus.shtml
>
> So Symantec used to say this often and clearly. The newer stuff doesn't
> have the statement included as it was considered an embarrassment. If you
> know anyone who programs for Norton try to get them to talk about it.
>
> --
> Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
> http://www.fjsmjs.com
> Answer in newsgroup. Don't expect an answer to email.
>
>

If it's that Windows Mail won't send, then it's not a POP3 problem, It's an
SMTP problem. How big does an attachment have to be to cause a problem?
I'd like to do some experimenting.

"ScottM" <ScottM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:42779D76-AD1B-40C5-9943-05E1C0DB6040@microsoft.com...
> thanks for the detailed reply. unfortunately i have already turned off
> the
> email scan feature, and it still will not send the emails with attachments
> larger than a simple Word doc. any thoughts?
>
> "Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM" wrote:
>
>> "Matt_Gsy" <MattGsy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:6BE1C775-EF54-429C-AFE4-C1009CE20F4D@microsoft.com...
>> > Hi,
>> > We are having a major problem with POP3 in Vista. We are an ISP.
>> > Vista does not download mail using pop3 if there are large mails or
>> > attachments. Vista just states the server has timed out, we have tried
>> > increasing the timeout value also.
>> > We have installed a brand new installation of vista (with no anti-virus
>> > software, firewall disabled etc).
>> > When we try to download mail using pop3 (windows mail, outlook 2003,
>> > thunderbird) from our mail server it just times out, if there is a mail
>> > with
>> > an attachment or large email in the inbox.
>> > I've tried using RAW telnet commands to connect and it just hangs when
>> > you
>> > try to retrieve a message with attachments or large emails.
>> > Every other OS/mail client combination works fine with our mail
>> > platform.
>> > I have checked our external firewalls and cannot see any strange errors
>> > or
>> > port usage. Just shows as pop3 connecting, the firewall isn't blocking
>> > anything.
>> > This is obviously a problem with Vista and how MS have used the pop3
>> > code,
>> > have they followed the RFC!!?
>> > MS need to fix this but I can't find anything on their site about, but
>> > plenty of people are having this problem.
>> >
>> > This is extremely frustrating as our customers are starting to use
>> > Vista
>> > and
>> > we cannot do anything to help them!!
>> >
>> > They assume it is our fault, which it is not.
>> >
>> > If anyone has a fix or suggestions please can you share them.
>>
>> This is usually caused by an anti-spam program or an anti-virus set to
>> scan
>> email.
>>
>> Have your customers turn off email scanning in their anti-virus. It
>> provides no added protection. After doing so it may be necessary to
>> reset
>> the server names in OE.
>>
>> The Other E-Mail Threat: File Corruption in Outlook Express
>> Published: November 18, 2004
>> By Tom Koch
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx

The people telling you that this is an AntiVirus issue obviously has not
dealt with this. I assure you that it is windows. Don't disable antivius,
your customers will not appreciate it. It is an issue with windows. I even
did a clean re-install on a brand new hard drive with no antivirus software
installed. Same problem present. And, yes, I am extremely familiar with
setting up and maintaining software, computers, and very adept at
troubleshooting. WINDOWS MAIL has major issues. A few people on here repost
the same answer to every similar question and if you will notice, the issue
never gets resolved. Bill Gates and his cronies are our only hope... (if
ever that happens). Good Day.

neospyce


"Matt_Gsy" <MattGsy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:6BE1C775-EF54-429C-AFE4-C1009CE20F4D@microsoft.com...
> Hi,
> We are having a major problem with POP3 in Vista. We are an ISP.
> Vista does not download mail using pop3 if there are large mails or
> attachments. Vista just states the server has timed out, we have tried
> increasing the timeout value also.
> We have installed a brand new installation of vista (with no anti-virus
> software, firewall disabled etc).
> When we try to download mail using pop3 (windows mail, outlook 2003,
> thunderbird) from our mail server it just times out, if there is a mail
> with
> an attachment or large email in the inbox.
> I've tried using RAW telnet commands to connect and it just hangs when you
> try to retrieve a message with attachments or large emails.
> Every other OS/mail client combination works fine with our mail platform.
> I have checked our external firewalls and cannot see any strange errors or
> port usage. Just shows as pop3 connecting, the firewall isn't blocking
> anything.
> This is obviously a problem with Vista and how MS have used the pop3 code,
> have they followed the RFC!!?
> MS need to fix this but I can't find anything on their site about, but
> plenty of people are having this problem.
>
> This is extremely frustrating as our customers are starting to use Vista
> and
> we cannot do anything to help them!!
>
> They assume it is our fault, which it is not.
>
> If anyone has a fix or suggestions please can you share them.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Matt
>

I don't know how long you have been following the posts
in this newsgroup, but I've had several users respond back
that their Windows Mail starting working again after
uninstalling McAfee or Norton Antivirus.

I think we are dealing with several different issues, some
of which are caused by antivirus email scanning, and some
are caused by something else.

To be sure, one should install a different (better) antivirus
after uninstalling McAfee or Norton Antivirus.

Gary VanderMolen

<msbecca421@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:%23x$s05MeHHA.3884@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> The people telling you that this is an AntiVirus issue obviously has not
> dealt with this. I assure you that it is windows. Don't disable antivius,
> your customers will not appreciate it. It is an issue with windows. I even
> did a clean re-install on a brand new hard drive with no antivirus software
> installed. Same problem present. And, yes, I am extremely familiar with
> setting up and maintaining software, computers, and very adept at
> troubleshooting. WINDOWS MAIL has major issues. A few people on here repost
> the same answer to every similar question and if you will notice, the issue
> never gets resolved. Bill Gates and his cronies are our only hope... (if
> ever that happens). Good Day.
>
> neospyce

And it's the windows 98 groups had the same problems from the same
suppliers, and it's nine years on. And email scanning is stupid anyway, the
data has already (or may have been - some programs have options to only do
high risk files, in which case the email part shouldn't bother either) been
scanned by the same program when it read or wrote to the disk.

So a feature meant for looking good in product comparisons.

"Gary VanderMolen" <gary@NoMail.invalid> wrote in message
news:eZEhvWNeHHA.4004@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I don't know how long you have been following the posts
> in this newsgroup, but I've had several users respond back
> that their Windows Mail starting working again after
> uninstalling McAfee or Norton Antivirus.
>
> I think we are dealing with several different issues, some
> of which are caused by antivirus email scanning, and some
> are caused by something else.
>
> To be sure, one should install a different (better) antivirus
> after uninstalling McAfee or Norton Antivirus.
>
> Gary VanderMolen
>
> <msbecca421@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:%23x$s05MeHHA.3884@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> The people telling you that this is an AntiVirus issue obviously has not
>> dealt with this. I assure you that it is windows. Don't disable antivius,
>> your customers will not appreciate it. It is an issue with windows. I
>> even did a clean re-install on a brand new hard drive with no antivirus
>> software installed. Same problem present. And, yes, I am extremely
>> familiar with setting up and maintaining software, computers, and very
>> adept at troubleshooting. WINDOWS MAIL has major issues. A few people on
>> here repost the same answer to every similar question and if you will
>> notice, the issue never gets resolved. Bill Gates and his cronies are our
>> only hope... (if ever that happens). Good Day.
>>
>> neospyce
>

Exactly. All the AV software now includes "email scanning", which
translates in OE and WinMail into loss of functionality.

steve

<.> wrote in message news:ODltJTQeHHA.4020@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> And it's the windows 98 groups had the same problems from the same
> suppliers, and it's nine years on. And email scanning is stupid anyway,
> the data has already (or may have been - some programs have options to
> only do high risk files, in which case the email part shouldn't bother
> either) been scanned by the same program when it read or wrote to the
> disk.
>
> So a feature meant for looking good in product comparisons.
>
> "Gary VanderMolen" <gary@NoMail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:eZEhvWNeHHA.4004@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>I don't know how long you have been following the posts
>> in this newsgroup, but I've had several users respond back
>> that their Windows Mail starting working again after
>> uninstalling McAfee or Norton Antivirus.
>>
>> I think we are dealing with several different issues, some
>> of which are caused by antivirus email scanning, and some
>> are caused by something else.
>>
>> To be sure, one should install a different (better) antivirus
>> after uninstalling McAfee or Norton Antivirus.
>>
>> Gary VanderMolen
>>
>> <msbecca421@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23x$s05MeHHA.3884@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> The people telling you that this is an AntiVirus issue obviously has not
>>> dealt with this. I assure you that it is windows. Don't disable
>>> antivius, your customers will not appreciate it. It is an issue with
>>> windows. I even did a clean re-install on a brand new hard drive with no
>>> antivirus software installed. Same problem present. And, yes, I am
>>> extremely familiar with setting up and maintaining software, computers,
>>> and very adept at troubleshooting. WINDOWS MAIL has major issues. A few
>>> people on here repost the same answer to every similar question and if
>>> you will notice, the issue never gets resolved. Bill Gates and his
>>> cronies are our only hope... (if ever that happens). Good Day.
>>>
>>> neospyce
>>
>

You don't know what you are talking about.

You may have problems with a clean install, but others are clearly having
problems with machines supplied by the manufacturers with antivirus and
antispam CRAPWARE on them and they clearly are causing issues for users.

And I am a volunteer here. I am not a croney.

steve

<msbecca421@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:%23x$s05MeHHA.3884@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> The people telling you that this is an AntiVirus issue obviously has not
> dealt with this. I assure you that it is windows. Don't disable antivius,
> your customers will not appreciate it. It is an issue with windows. I even
> did a clean re-install on a brand new hard drive with no antivirus
> software installed. Same problem present. And, yes, I am extremely
> familiar with setting up and maintaining software, computers, and very
> adept at troubleshooting. WINDOWS MAIL has major issues. A few people on
> here repost the same answer to every similar question and if you will
> notice, the issue never gets resolved. Bill Gates and his cronies are our
> only hope... (if ever that happens). Good Day.
>
> neospyce
>
>
> "Matt_Gsy" <MattGsy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:6BE1C775-EF54-429C-AFE4-C1009CE20F4D@microsoft.com...
>> Hi,
>> We are having a major problem with POP3 in Vista. We are an ISP.
>> Vista does not download mail using pop3 if there are large mails or
>> attachments. Vista just states the server has timed out, we have tried
>> increasing the timeout value also.
>> We have installed a brand new installation of vista (with no anti-virus
>> software, firewall disabled etc).
>> When we try to download mail using pop3 (windows mail, outlook 2003,
>> thunderbird) from our mail server it just times out, if there is a mail
>> with
>> an attachment or large email in the inbox.
>> I've tried using RAW telnet commands to connect and it just hangs when
>> you
>> try to retrieve a message with attachments or large emails.
>> Every other OS/mail client combination works fine with our mail platform.
>> I have checked our external firewalls and cannot see any strange errors
>> or
>> port usage. Just shows as pop3 connecting, the firewall isn't blocking
>> anything.
>> This is obviously a problem with Vista and how MS have used the pop3
>> code,
>> have they followed the RFC!!?
>> MS need to fix this but I can't find anything on their site about, but
>> plenty of people are having this problem.
>>
>> This is extremely frustrating as our customers are starting to use Vista
>> and
>> we cannot do anything to help them!!
>>
>> They assume it is our fault, which it is not.
>>
>> If anyone has a fix or suggestions please can you share them.
>>
>> Many Thanks
>>
>> Matt
>>
>