Vista - Photo Gallery Viewer pixellates during zoom :(

Hi, in XP when you opened an image to preview it, and zoomed in, it would do
realtime optimization to remove the pixellation, giving a nice
Photoshop-esque enlargement on-screen.

In Vista's Photo Gallery viewer, it pixellates the image horribly when
zooming into the preview. Is this by design and is there any way round it?

I would have thought with all the Aero image trickery going on, they
wouldn't remove a feature like this that was in XP.
--
Thanks,
CJSnet

Recommended:
* http://search.superhighstreet.com - Finds anything or they pay!
* http://www.superhighstreet.com & http://www.oxfordstreet.com - Beat the
crowds with Virtual Streetscapes

[remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]

I doubt it's by design or that there is any way around it, for now.

"CJSnet" <usenet@TEETHthe-simpson.tv> wrote in message
news:45410278-0A4B-4DD3-9DFC-B69EAC560423@microsoft.com...
> Hi, in XP when you opened an image to preview it, and zoomed in, it would
> do realtime optimization to remove the pixellation, giving a nice
> Photoshop-esque enlargement on-screen.
>
> In Vista's Photo Gallery viewer, it pixellates the image horribly when
> zooming into the preview. Is this by design and is there any way round
> it?
>
> I would have thought with all the Aero image trickery going on, they
> wouldn't remove a feature like this that was in XP.
> --
> Thanks,
> CJSnet
>
> Recommended:
> * http://search.superhighstreet.com - Finds anything or they pay!
> * http://www.superhighstreet.com & http://www.oxfordstreet.com - Beat the
> crowds with Virtual Streetscapes
>
> [remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]
>
>

Do you see the same issue on your system?

"Mac" <mac@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:euPaHCErHHA.4764@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I doubt it's by design or that there is any way around it, for now.
>
> "CJSnet" <usenet@TEETHthe-simpson.tv> wrote in message
> news:45410278-0A4B-4DD3-9DFC-B69EAC560423@microsoft.com...
>> Hi, in XP when you opened an image to preview it, and zoomed in, it would
>> do realtime optimization to remove the pixellation, giving a nice
>> Photoshop-esque enlargement on-screen.
>>
>> In Vista's Photo Gallery viewer, it pixellates the image horribly when
>> zooming into the preview. Is this by design and is there any way round
>> it?
>>
>> I would have thought with all the Aero image trickery going on, they
>> wouldn't remove a feature like this that was in XP.
>> --
>> Thanks,
>> CJSnet
>>
>> Recommended:
>> * http://search.superhighstreet.com - Finds anything or they pay!
>> * http://www.superhighstreet.com & http://www.oxfordstreet.com - Beat
>> the crowds with Virtual Streetscapes
>>
>> [remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]
>>
>>

To some extent - though it doesn't bother me too much

"CJSnet" <usenet@TEETHthe-simpson.tv> wrote in message
news:42057E5A-A5E9-4DBF-A547-2B42B88A4DAE@microsoft.com...
> Do you see the same issue on your system?
>
> "Mac" <mac@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:euPaHCErHHA.4764@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>I doubt it's by design or that there is any way around it, for now.
>>
>> "CJSnet" <usenet@TEETHthe-simpson.tv> wrote in message
>> news:45410278-0A4B-4DD3-9DFC-B69EAC560423@microsoft.com...
>>> Hi, in XP when you opened an image to preview it, and zoomed in, it
>>> would do realtime optimization to remove the pixellation, giving a nice
>>> Photoshop-esque enlargement on-screen.
>>>
>>> In Vista's Photo Gallery viewer, it pixellates the image horribly when
>>> zooming into the preview. Is this by design and is there any way round
>>> it?
>>>
>>> I would have thought with all the Aero image trickery going on, they
>>> wouldn't remove a feature like this that was in XP.
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>> CJSnet
>>>
>>> Recommended:
>>> * http://search.superhighstreet.com - Finds anything or they pay!
>>> * http://www.superhighstreet.com & http://www.oxfordstreet.com - Beat
>>> the crowds with Virtual Streetscapes
>>>
>>> [remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]
>>>
>>>
>
>

i think it is by design

and do you know? i prefer it this way, cause when i zoom in, i want to see
the pixels giving me the opportunity to know if i did focus correctly my
photo, theres no real way to do that in xp unless using another program
i believe that it is a bit more "pro-oriented" :-p

it is the other way now, there are quite a bit of free picture viewers that
works in vista, and many of them will smooth the picture when you zoom

i dont know if any registry setting will do the trick though

According to Dave Johnson [MSFT] it is not by design and he can't see it
happening on his Vista -- apparently it smoothes the image.

So either you have the same glitch I have, or something else is rather odd.
--
Thanks,
CJSnet

Recommended:
* http://search.superhighstreet.com - Finds anything or they pay!
* http://www.superhighstreet.com & http://www.oxfordstreet.com - Beat the
crowds with Virtual Streetscapes

[remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]

"Jume" <jume@konithuki.com> wrote in message
news:OERd2XNrHHA.5032@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>i think it is by design
>
> and do you know? i prefer it this way, cause when i zoom in, i want to see
> the pixels giving me the opportunity to know if i did focus correctly my
> photo, theres no real way to do that in xp unless using another program
> i believe that it is a bit more "pro-oriented" :-p
>
> it is the other way now, there are quite a bit of free picture viewers
> that works in vista, and many of them will smooth the picture when you
> zoom
>
> i dont know if any registry setting will do the trick though

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:16:41 +0100, "CJSnet"
<usenet@TEETHthe-simpson.tv> wrote:

>According to Dave Johnson [MSFT] it is not by design and he can't see it
>happening on his Vista -- apparently it smoothes the image.
>
>So either you have the same glitch I have, or something else is rather odd.

There is so much misinformation posted to these so-called "support"
groups it is mind boggling.

ANY image that is raster based will pixelate IF you zoom in on it far
enough, regardless of resolution or application, even Photoshop will.

The reason is simple. A raster based image is made of rectangles. If
you zoom in far enough no amount of smoothing or other trickery can
hide them and you'll start to get the staircase effect starting to
show up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics

A vector based image is different and will remain smooth and sharp
regardless how large you make it. Vector based images are generally in
the realm of illustrations, sometimes cartoons. Photographs are ALWAYS
raster based but can with varying degrees of success be converted to
vector based in applications like Corel Draw and Flash.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics

Now the burning question... WHY Vista appears to pixelate some images
for some people and not for others.

Two things working against it. First if the image is of low bitrate or
already very compressed and many JPEG images you download off the web
or find in newsgroups are, any attempt to enlarge them much beyond
150% of their original size with result in pixelation.

Higher resolution images can be enlarged further before you see this
effect. Older versions of Windows enlarged images in tiny steps.
Microsoft now changed to a slider. The problem is a lot of people
don't know how to properly use it. If you attempt to zoom in on a low
bitrate image pushing the slider to near the top of it's range you
could be enlarging it to twice, triple or even many times larger than
it's original size thus you'll get pixelation. Nothing is wrong or
broke, that's just how things are. Also the lower your screen
resolution the more noticeable this effect will be.

Remember... the higher your screen resolution the smaller the image
will appear, but more of it will appear on the screen without
scrolling. Since you're beginning with more pixels at higher
resolution, any staircase effect is minimized.

Do you have the source somwhere near over there? Cause i've seen this
zooming in betas and rc's as well, with different graphics card (and in
other pc's as well), so i assumed this is the normal behavior

no, i'm not bashing, is interesting to know if i can activate the smoothing
to my pleasure (e.g. presentations for low-res ones)

Adam trust me I know what pixellation is, but we are talking about different
things.

If you resize an image in Photoshop it will do its best to smooth the
enlargement.
In XP if you previewed a photo in Explorer, and then zoomed in, it would
again do its best to smooth it.
BUT in Vista, when you preview the image and zoom in, there is no smoothing.
It keeps each pixel the same, enlarges them, and this creates the mosaic
effect you'd get if resizing an image in Paint!

If you do not see this effect in Vista, then some users are experiencing a
bug or issue that others are not.

So, simple question - when you resize a preview in Explorer, does it try to
smooth it like XP does, or does it create a Lego brick mosaic?
--
Thanks,
CJSnet

Recommended:
* http://search.superhighstreet.com - Finds anything or they pay!
* http://www.superhighstreet.com & http://www.oxfordstreet.com - Beat the
crowds with Virtual Streetscapes

[remove 'teeth' to e-mail me]


"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:alau639cheq2dr2t3khp13ufnm7pvkd100@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:16:41 +0100, "CJSnet"
> <usenet@TEETHthe-simpson.tv> wrote:
>
>>According to Dave Johnson [MSFT] it is not by design and he can't see it
>>happening on his Vista -- apparently it smoothes the image.
>>
>>So either you have the same glitch I have, or something else is rather
>>odd.
>
> There is so much misinformation posted to these so-called "support"
> groups it is mind boggling.
>
> ANY image that is raster based will pixelate IF you zoom in on it far
> enough, regardless of resolution or application, even Photoshop will.
>
> The reason is simple. A raster based image is made of rectangles. If
> you zoom in far enough no amount of smoothing or other trickery can
> hide them and you'll start to get the staircase effect starting to
> show up.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics
>
> A vector based image is different and will remain smooth and sharp
> regardless how large you make it. Vector based images are generally in
> the realm of illustrations, sometimes cartoons. Photographs are ALWAYS
> raster based but can with varying degrees of success be converted to
> vector based in applications like Corel Draw and Flash.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics
>
> Now the burning question... WHY Vista appears to pixelate some images
> for some people and not for others.
>
> Two things working against it. First if the image is of low bitrate or
> already very compressed and many JPEG images you download off the web
> or find in newsgroups are, any attempt to enlarge them much beyond
> 150% of their original size with result in pixelation.
>
> Higher resolution images can be enlarged further before you see this
> effect. Older versions of Windows enlarged images in tiny steps.
> Microsoft now changed to a slider. The problem is a lot of people
> don't know how to properly use it. If you attempt to zoom in on a low
> bitrate image pushing the slider to near the top of it's range you
> could be enlarging it to twice, triple or even many times larger than
> it's original size thus you'll get pixelation. Nothing is wrong or
> broke, that's just how things are. Also the lower your screen
> resolution the more noticeable this effect will be.
>
> Remember... the higher your screen resolution the smaller the image
> will appear, but more of it will appear on the screen without
> scrolling. Since you're beginning with more pixels at higher
> resolution, any staircase effect is minimized.
>

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:04:59 +0100, "CJSnet"
<usenet@TEETHthe-simpson.tv> wrote:

>Adam trust me I know what pixellation is, but we are talking about different
>things.
>
>If you resize an image in Photoshop it will do its best to smooth the
>enlargement.

Doing it's best and hitting a brick wall if you attempt to enlarge
beyond the point of reason are two different things. *** If you want
the technical term for what's happening it is either Bilinear or
Bicubic interpolation. Part of the problem is anti-aliasing. Artifacts
get created when you over do it. Artwork is NOT rectangular, but
pixels are. The more you attempt to enlarge any raster based image
that at it's lowest common dominator is rectangular pixels, the more
artifacts get introduced. There is no way of getting around the
science behind this principle.

*** if you ask any PROFESSIONAL, they would laugh if you tried to
enlarge any raster based image much beyond 150%. Maybe in some extreme
cases you may be able to get away with 200%. For reasons only known to
Microsoft Photo Gallery's viewer foolishly now allows you to zoom it
to 500%, 1000%, maybe more depending on the original size of the
image. THAT is what is causing you to see the underlying pixels. The
lower your screen resolution the more of an annoyance this becomes.

>In XP if you previewed a photo in Explorer, and then zoomed in, it would
>again do its best to smooth it.
>BUT in Vista, when you preview the image and zoom in, there is no smoothing.
>It keeps each pixel the same, enlarges them, and this creates the mosaic
>effect you'd get if resizing an image in Paint!

It appears you don't fully understand the technical nature of what
your discussing. To begin with no "smoothing" is happening nor it is
suppose to. Pixels are added, NEVER changed in size probably by using
Bilinear interpolation. You'll have to ask Microsoft if they use a
different interpolation method.

When you zoom in or enlarge any raster based image pixels get added
based on a mathematical formula. This in effect determines what hue
the added pixels should be based on their relationship to ajoining
pixels. See the math involved here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilinear_interpolation

The point you're missing is you can take the SAME image at it's
original size then "zoom" in on it in Photo Gallery and then take the
same image at it's original size and again zoom it on it (to enlarge)
in Photoshop so it is as large in Photoshop as you zoomed it up to in
Photo Gallery and you get similar deteration or pixellation. BECASUE
it is a raster based image.
>
>If you do not see this effect in Vista, then some users are experiencing a
>bug or issue that others are not.

You simply don't understand the issue. No bugs, POOR design. For
reasons you'll have to ask Microsoft it is now possible in Photo
Galley to over zoom. In other words it is now possible to enlarge a
images many times it's original size if you push the slider all the
way to the top. That's dumb on Microsoft's part since surely their
software engineers know that pixellation will be the result.

The point I'm making and it seems over a lot of people's heads is it
isn't the application, Photoshop will do the same thing if you enlarge
a raster based image to some ridiculous level. I don't have a PC
running XP any more so I can't check. I seem to remember it was
limited it how much it could zoom in, thus it didn't appear to
pixellate raster based images as badly.

>So, simple question - when you resize a preview in Explorer, does it try to
>smooth it like XP does, or does it create a Lego brick mosaic?

You still don't seem to understand.

Let me ask you a question. At what POINT do you start to see the image
pixelate? At 150%, 200%, more?