WARNING: Long post!
This is my end of a transcript of a "chat" with HP:
Hi. Listen very carefully. I'm frustrated. I don't want to take it out on
you. To avoid repeating vast amounts of information, I'm going to start with
basic facts and continue to the more complex observations and THEN ask my
questions. You are about to read a lot of information. Please be patient.
I've pre-written most of this, and when we get to a point where I haven't, I
type slowly. I know this isn't the way you're scripted to work but... thank
you for bearing with me.

I have a Compaq Presario F572US Notebook PC. The computer is running under
Windows Vista Home Premium. My network workgroup is MSHOME. My home network
is called Particles. I was sent a Recovery CD, so I deleted my D: drive and
now my C:\ shows 66.5GB used space and 7.95GB free space. I have a WRT54G
S/N:xxxxxxxxxxx; ver. 6; MAC: xxxxxxxxxA. Feel free to refer back to these
primary notes.

Do you understand everything I've typed so far? Note: I am not asking for
solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.

I am sitting in a room with a router connected (wired) to three (3) other
computers. One of them is runnung Windows Vista Ultimate. I am not concerned
about this computer yet. I will not refer to it in the future. The other two
desktop computers ("Blackbox" and "Tachyon") are wired, running under Windows
XP (SP2). "Tachyon" is directly connected to the router. I'm going to move
there now. They also belong to the network "Particles" and share the
workgroup "MSHOME". Let's call them"Blackbox" and"Tachyon". Tachyon is
directly connected to the router.

Is everything I've typed so far clear? Do you have any questions? Note: I am
not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.

History: I replaced an Ethernet cable to one of the computers Wednesday
(before Thanksgiving). It involved drilling and crawling under my house. It
was not fun. I labled all the wires as they came out of the floor and again
as they went back in (or
out of the house in the case of the coax cables). When I was done all the
wired computers could connect to each other and to the Internet. I didn't
think to check the wireless connection as it's always worked. REPEAT: Up
until I messed with the router connections, My Vista laptop could see each XP
machines and visa versa.

Friday I found that I can't connect.

Troubleshooting:
The router works. As I say, "Blackbox" can see "Tachyon" and "Tachyon" can
see "Blackbox". I've just spent a half hour on the phone with Linksys
verifying this. It's just that neither can see the HP VISTA laptop.

I went to Start>Network>Network and Sharing Center on the wireless Vista
laptop which showed that I was connected to Particles (my network) and the
Internet. The connection status states:

IPv4 Connectivity: Internet
IPv6 connectivity: Limited
Media state: Enabled
SSID: Particles
Duration 13:15:11
Speed: 54.Mbps
Signal quality: 4/5 bars (Very good)
Network Discovery is ON (firewall is on and configured. Turning it off
doesn't improve/change anything.)

REPEAT: TURNING OFF THE FIREWALL OR ANTIVIRUS PROGRAMS HAVE NO EFFECT.

The IP addresses of the boxes are:
Tachyon = 192.xxx.x.100
Blackbox = 192.xxx.1.2
Presario = 192.xxx.1.1

I mention this because from the laptop I can ping the desktops.
I know, I didn't want to confuse the issue, but I CAN reach the Internet on
the laptop.

Even though I've done this before, I downloaded the Link Layer Topology
Discovery (LLTD) Responder (KB922120) and re-installed it on the XP machines.
I unplugged both the router and my cable modem and turned off each machine. I
went to the kitchen, got a refill on my coffee and came back. I then
connected the cable, cooled my coffee off with Irish Cream and connected the
router. When all the pretty lights were on, I booted the computer(s). After
waiting a lifetime (it's XP on a slow machine), I went to
START>Accessories>Windows Explorer>My Network Places> Entire
Network>Microsoft Windows Network to see what was showing. Answer: Just the
two XP machines.

Before going on, do you understand everything I've typed so far? Do you have
any questions? Note: I am not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of
understanding. Of course I'll hold on while you read/re-read/look up/ask for
help.



I then went to START>Control Panel>Network and Internet Connections>Network
Connections>Local Area Connection (Connected, Firewalled)>Status. There, I
found:
Status: Connected
Duration: 6:46
Speed: 100.0Mbps
In the Support tab, I found:
Address Type: Assigned by DHCP
IP Address: 192.xxx.x.xxx
Subnet 255.xxx.xxx.x
Default: 192.xxx.x.xxx
You probably don't even need to know this stuff.

Now, the question:
Do you have any ideas on how to get my network back in my Vista notebook?

HP stated that this is a "known issue" with Vista. they said to contact MS.
I responded that "However I might wish to talk to Microsoft about these
issues, this Vista is an OEM version and they won't talk to me. I HAVE to get
my answers from you." They assured me that MS would talk to me. Of course,
they won't.

Interesting note: On my laptop, if I go to START and type RUN in the search
bar, then type "\\ and then the IP address of the computer I want, it will
find and display the computer.

ALL I WANT IS TO GO TO START>NETWORKS AND SEE MY TWO XP COMPUTERS! I WANT TO
GO TO MY XP COMPUTERS AND GO TO START>

At the end of the chat, they said talking to MS would take care of it and
then
stopped responding. After 5 minutes, I logged off. I then went to my web mail
to retrieve my transcript only to find a note thaT SAID THAT SINCE I HAD
LOGGED OFF, NO TRANSCRIPT WAS SAVED. This represented over two hours
"Talking" to them. I still don't have an answer.

Today, I got fed up and copied all my data to another computer
(START>RUN>\\IPADDRESS) and restored my computer to factory condition using
the HP Restore Disk. It formatted my drive and loaded Vista (plus X MBs of HP
stuff). Now I should be able to configure my network just like the first time
I got this laptop. I couldn't even reach the Internet, no less, my network.
Getting pretty angry, I called HP support and their solution was to have me
uninstall the Broadcom 802.11b/g WLAN altogether and download and flash the
BIOS. Then, he directed me to check if I could get on the internet.
When I could, they pronounced my computer in working order and said the rest
was not their problem. This is a side issue, but can anyone explain the
limits MS conciders the legal responsability of OEMs? What MUST they support
and what MUST MS still support? Where is this written down? Maybe I'll ask in
another group.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:09:02 -0800, brutuswon
<brutuswon@xxxxxx> wrote:

>WARNING: Long post!
>This is my end of a transcript of a "chat" with HP:
>Hi. Listen very carefully. I'm frustrated. I don't want to take it out on
>you. To avoid repeating vast amounts of information, I'm going to start with
>basic facts and continue to the more complex observations and THEN ask my
>questions. You are about to read a lot of information. Please be patient.
>I've pre-written most of this, and when we get to a point where I haven't, I
>type slowly. I know this isn't the way you're scripted to work but... thank
>you for bearing with me.
>
>I have a Compaq Presario F572US Notebook PC. The computer is running under
>Windows Vista Home Premium. My network workgroup is MSHOME. My home network
>is called Particles. I was sent a Recovery CD, so I deleted my D: drive and
>now my C:\ shows 66.5GB used space and 7.95GB free space. I have a WRT54G
>S/N:xxxxxxxxxxx; ver. 6; MAC: xxxxxxxxxA. Feel free to refer back to these
>primary notes.
>
>Do you understand everything I've typed so far? Note: I am not asking for
>solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.
>
>I am sitting in a room with a router connected (wired) to three (3) other
>computers. One of them is runnung Windows Vista Ultimate. I am not concerned
>about this computer yet. I will not refer to it in the future. The other two
>desktop computers ("Blackbox" and "Tachyon") are wired, running under Windows
>XP (SP2). "Tachyon" is directly connected to the router. I'm going to move
>there now. They also belong to the network "Particles" and share the
>workgroup "MSHOME". Let's call them"Blackbox" and"Tachyon". Tachyon is
>directly connected to the router.
>
>Is everything I've typed so far clear? Do you have any questions? Note: I am
>not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.
>
>History: I replaced an Ethernet cable to one of the computers Wednesday
>(before Thanksgiving). It involved drilling and crawling under my house. It
>was not fun. I labled all the wires as they came out of the floor and again
>as they went back in (or
>out of the house in the case of the coax cables). When I was done all the
>wired computers could connect to each other and to the Internet. I didn't
>think to check the wireless connection as it's always worked. REPEAT: Up
>until I messed with the router connections, My Vista laptop could see each XP
>machines and visa versa.
>
>Friday I found that I can't connect.
>
>Troubleshooting:
>The router works. As I say, "Blackbox" can see "Tachyon" and "Tachyon" can
>see "Blackbox". I've just spent a half hour on the phone with Linksys
>verifying this. It's just that neither can see the HP VISTA laptop.
>
>I went to Start>Network>Network and Sharing Center on the wireless Vista
>laptop which showed that I was connected to Particles (my network) and the
>Internet. The connection status states:
>
>IPv4 Connectivity: Internet
>IPv6 connectivity: Limited
>Media state: Enabled
>SSID: Particles
>Duration 13:15:11
>Speed: 54.Mbps
>Signal quality: 4/5 bars (Very good)
>Network Discovery is ON (firewall is on and configured. Turning it off
>doesn't improve/change anything.)
>
>REPEAT: TURNING OFF THE FIREWALL OR ANTIVIRUS PROGRAMS HAVE NO EFFECT.
>
>The IP addresses of the boxes are:
>Tachyon = 192.xxx.x.100
>Blackbox = 192.xxx.1.2
>Presario = 192.xxx.1.1
>
>I mention this because from the laptop I can ping the desktops.
>I know, I didn't want to confuse the issue, but I CAN reach the Internet on
>the laptop.
>
>Even though I've done this before, I downloaded the Link Layer Topology
>Discovery (LLTD) Responder (KB922120) and re-installed it on the XP machines.
>I unplugged both the router and my cable modem and turned off each machine. I
>went to the kitchen, got a refill on my coffee and came back. I then
>connected the cable, cooled my coffee off with Irish Cream and connected the
>router. When all the pretty lights were on, I booted the computer(s). After
>waiting a lifetime (it's XP on a slow machine), I went to
>START>Accessories>Windows Explorer>My Network Places> Entire
>Network>Microsoft Windows Network to see what was showing. Answer: Just the
>two XP machines.
>
>Before going on, do you understand everything I've typed so far? Do you have
>any questions? Note: I am not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of
>understanding. Of course I'll hold on while you read/re-read/look up/ask for
>help.
>
>I then went to START>Control Panel>Network and Internet Connections>Network
>Connections>Local Area Connection (Connected, Firewalled)>Status. There, I
>found:
>Status: Connected
>Duration: 6:46
>Speed: 100.0Mbps
>In the Support tab, I found:
> Address Type: Assigned by DHCP
>IP Address: 192.xxx.x.xxx
>Subnet 255.xxx.xxx.x
>Default: 192.xxx.x.xxx
>You probably don't even need to know this stuff.
>
>Now, the question:
>Do you have any ideas on how to get my network back in my Vista notebook?
>
>HP stated that this is a "known issue" with Vista. they said to contact MS.
>I responded that "However I might wish to talk to Microsoft about these
>issues, this Vista is an OEM version and they won't talk to me. I HAVE to get
>my answers from you." They assured me that MS would talk to me. Of course,
>they won't.
>
>Interesting note: On my laptop, if I go to START and type RUN in the search
>bar, then type "\\ and then the IP address of the computer I want, it will
>find and display the computer.
>
>ALL I WANT IS TO GO TO START>NETWORKS AND SEE MY TWO XP COMPUTERS! I WANT TO
>GO TO MY XP COMPUTERS AND GO TO START>
>
>At the end of the chat, they said talking to MS would take care of it and
>then
>stopped responding. After 5 minutes, I logged off. I then went to my web mail
>to retrieve my transcript only to find a note thaT SAID THAT SINCE I HAD
>LOGGED OFF, NO TRANSCRIPT WAS SAVED. This represented over two hours
>"Talking" to them. I still don't have an answer.
>
>Today, I got fed up and copied all my data to another computer
>(START>RUN>\\IPADDRESS) and restored my computer to factory condition using
>the HP Restore Disk. It formatted my drive and loaded Vista (plus X MBs of HP
>stuff). Now I should be able to configure my network just like the first time
>I got this laptop. I couldn't even reach the Internet, no less, my network.
>Getting pretty angry, I called HP support and their solution was to have me
>uninstall the Broadcom 802.11b/g WLAN altogether and download and flash the
>BIOS. Then, he directed me to check if I could get on the internet.
>When I could, they pronounced my computer in working order and said the rest
>was not their problem. This is a side issue, but can anyone explain the
>limits MS conciders the legal responsability of OEMs? What MUST they support
>and what MUST MS still support? Where is this written down? Maybe I'll ask in
>another group.

You've done a lot of work, and some of it may cause confusion in using the
diagnostics that you've done. I'll ask you to exhaustively produce diagnostic
logs, and not to make any changes during the diagnosis process following, unless
instructed to do so. This will help us to help you.

Please start with logs from "browstat status", "ipconfig /all", "net config
server", and "net config workstation", from each computer. Read this article,
and linked articles, and follow instructions precisely (download browstat!):
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/0...#AskingForHelp

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-au/l.../bb727037.aspx

See if this helps!

"brutuswon" wrote:

> WARNING: Long post!
> This is my end of a transcript of a "chat" with HP:
> Hi. Listen very carefully. I'm frustrated. I don't want to take it out on
> you. To avoid repeating vast amounts of information, I'm going to start with
> basic facts and continue to the more complex observations and THEN ask my
> questions. You are about to read a lot of information. Please be patient.
> I've pre-written most of this, and when we get to a point where I haven't, I
> type slowly. I know this isn't the way you're scripted to work but... thank
> you for bearing with me.
>
> I have a Compaq Presario F572US Notebook PC. The computer is running under
> Windows Vista Home Premium. My network workgroup is MSHOME. My home network
> is called Particles. I was sent a Recovery CD, so I deleted my D: drive and
> now my C:\ shows 66.5GB used space and 7.95GB free space. I have a WRT54G
> S/N:xxxxxxxxxxx; ver. 6; MAC: xxxxxxxxxA. Feel free to refer back to these
> primary notes.
>
> Do you understand everything I've typed so far? Note: I am not asking for
> solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.
>
> I am sitting in a room with a router connected (wired) to three (3) other
> computers. One of them is runnung Windows Vista Ultimate. I am not concerned
> about this computer yet. I will not refer to it in the future. The other two
> desktop computers ("Blackbox" and "Tachyon") are wired, running under Windows
> XP (SP2). "Tachyon" is directly connected to the router. I'm going to move
> there now. They also belong to the network "Particles" and share the
> workgroup "MSHOME". Let's call them"Blackbox" and"Tachyon". Tachyon is
> directly connected to the router.
>
> Is everything I've typed so far clear? Do you have any questions? Note: I am
> not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.
>
> History: I replaced an Ethernet cable to one of the computers Wednesday
> (before Thanksgiving). It involved drilling and crawling under my house. It
> was not fun. I labled all the wires as they came out of the floor and again
> as they went back in (or
> out of the house in the case of the coax cables). When I was done all the
> wired computers could connect to each other and to the Internet. I didn't
> think to check the wireless connection as it's always worked. REPEAT: Up
> until I messed with the router connections, My Vista laptop could see each XP
> machines and visa versa.
>
> Friday I found that I can't connect.
>
> Troubleshooting:
> The router works. As I say, "Blackbox" can see "Tachyon" and "Tachyon" can
> see "Blackbox". I've just spent a half hour on the phone with Linksys
> verifying this. It's just that neither can see the HP VISTA laptop.
>
> I went to Start>Network>Network and Sharing Center on the wireless Vista
> laptop which showed that I was connected to Particles (my network) and the
> Internet. The connection status states:
>
> IPv4 Connectivity: Internet
> IPv6 connectivity: Limited
> Media state: Enabled
> SSID: Particles
> Duration 13:15:11
> Speed: 54.Mbps
> Signal quality: 4/5 bars (Very good)
> Network Discovery is ON (firewall is on and configured. Turning it off
> doesn't improve/change anything.)
>
> REPEAT: TURNING OFF THE FIREWALL OR ANTIVIRUS PROGRAMS HAVE NO EFFECT.
>
> The IP addresses of the boxes are:
> Tachyon = 192.xxx.x.100
> Blackbox = 192.xxx.1.2
> Presario = 192.xxx.1.1
>
> I mention this because from the laptop I can ping the desktops.
> I know, I didn't want to confuse the issue, but I CAN reach the Internet on
> the laptop.
>
> Even though I've done this before, I downloaded the Link Layer Topology
> Discovery (LLTD) Responder (KB922120) and re-installed it on the XP machines.
> I unplugged both the router and my cable modem and turned off each machine. I
> went to the kitchen, got a refill on my coffee and came back. I then
> connected the cable, cooled my coffee off with Irish Cream and connected the
> router. When all the pretty lights were on, I booted the computer(s). After
> waiting a lifetime (it's XP on a slow machine), I went to
> START>Accessories>Windows Explorer>My Network Places> Entire
> Network>Microsoft Windows Network to see what was showing. Answer: Just the
> two XP machines.
>
> Before going on, do you understand everything I've typed so far? Do you have
> any questions? Note: I am not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of
> understanding. Of course I'll hold on while you read/re-read/look up/ask for
> help.
>
> I then went to START>Control Panel>Network and Internet Connections>Network
> Connections>Local Area Connection (Connected, Firewalled)>Status. There, I
> found:
> Status: Connected
> Duration: 6:46
> Speed: 100.0Mbps
> In the Support tab, I found:
> Address Type: Assigned by DHCP
> IP Address: 192.xxx.x.xxx
> Subnet 255.xxx.xxx.x
> Default: 192.xxx.x.xxx
> You probably don't even need to know this stuff.
>
> Now, the question:
> Do you have any ideas on how to get my network back in my Vista notebook?
>
> HP stated that this is a "known issue" with Vista. they said to contact MS.
> I responded that "However I might wish to talk to Microsoft about these
> issues, this Vista is an OEM version and they won't talk to me. I HAVE to get
> my answers from you." They assured me that MS would talk to me. Of course,
> they won't.
>
> Interesting note: On my laptop, if I go to START and type RUN in the search
> bar, then type "\\ and then the IP address of the computer I want, it will
> find and display the computer.
>
> ALL I WANT IS TO GO TO START>NETWORKS AND SEE MY TWO XP COMPUTERS! I WANT TO
> GO TO MY XP COMPUTERS AND GO TO START>
>
> At the end of the chat, they said talking to MS would take care of it and
> then
> stopped responding. After 5 minutes, I logged off. I then went to my web mail
> to retrieve my transcript only to find a note thaT SAID THAT SINCE I HAD
> LOGGED OFF, NO TRANSCRIPT WAS SAVED. This represented over two hours
> "Talking" to them. I still don't have an answer.
>
> Today, I got fed up and copied all my data to another computer
> (START>RUN>\\IPADDRESS) and restored my computer to factory condition using
> the HP Restore Disk. It formatted my drive and loaded Vista (plus X MBs of HP
> stuff). Now I should be able to configure my network just like the first time
> I got this laptop. I couldn't even reach the Internet, no less, my network.
> Getting pretty angry, I called HP support and their solution was to have me
> uninstall the Broadcom 802.11b/g WLAN altogether and download and flash the
> BIOS. Then, he directed me to check if I could get on the internet.
> When I could, they pronounced my computer in working order and said the rest
> was not their problem. This is a side issue, but can anyone explain the
> limits MS conciders the legal responsability of OEMs? What MUST they support
> and what MUST MS still support? Where is this written down? Maybe I'll ask in
> another group.

Thank you. You were, of course, right. Every time I did some research
(diagnostics) I may have or may NOT have changed something to "optimize"
something - and I didn't keep notes. After much reading, swearing and
fiddling around between all my computers, I solved the problem. By the time I
had "fixed" everything, I had changed the network name on the Vista box. Of
course, it couldn't see any other computers on that network (HOME vs MSHOME).
Of course, A) this wasn't the initial problem. B) I don't think it excuses HP
for not working with me to solve it. It took them 10 days to respond to 3
emails, and then only when I started to threaten to send daily emails to the
Board of Directors of HP. Yes, I now know their names and the email of their
Admin. Assistant.

Anyway, it's fixed, thank you. HOWEVER ... I had another issue that hasn't
been resolved.

"This is a side issue, but can anyone explain the

> limits MS considers the legal responsibility of OEMs? What MUST they support
> and what MUST MS still support? Where is this written down? Maybe I'll ask in
> another group."

I haven't been able to find the appropriate "group" to post this question.
Does anyone know?

"Chuck [MVP]" wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:09:02 -0800, brutuswon
> <brutuswon@xxxxxx> wrote:
>

> >WARNING: Long post!
> >This is my end of a transcript of a "chat" with HP:
> >Hi. Listen very carefully. I'm frustrated. I don't want to take it out on
> >you. To avoid repeating vast amounts of information, I'm going to start with
> >basic facts and continue to the more complex observations and THEN ask my
> >questions. You are about to read a lot of information. Please be patient.
> >I've pre-written most of this, and when we get to a point where I haven't, I
> >type slowly. I know this isn't the way you're scripted to work but... thank
> >you for bearing with me.
> >
> >I have a Compaq Presario F572US Notebook PC. The computer is running under
> >Windows Vista Home Premium. My network workgroup is MSHOME. My home network
> >is called Particles. I was sent a Recovery CD, so I deleted my D: drive and
> >now my C:\ shows 66.5GB used space and 7.95GB free space. I have a WRT54G
> >S/N:xxxxxxxxxxx; ver. 6; MAC: xxxxxxxxxA. Feel free to refer back to these
> >primary notes.
> >
> >Do you understand everything I've typed so far? Note: I am not asking for
> >solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.
> >
> >I am sitting in a room with a router connected (wired) to three (3) other
> >computers. One of them is runnung Windows Vista Ultimate. I am not concerned
> >about this computer yet. I will not refer to it in the future. The other two
> >desktop computers ("Blackbox" and "Tachyon") are wired, running under Windows
> >XP (SP2). "Tachyon" is directly connected to the router. I'm going to move
> >there now. They also belong to the network "Particles" and share the
> >workgroup "MSHOME". Let's call them"Blackbox" and"Tachyon". Tachyon is
> >directly connected to the router.
> >
> >Is everything I've typed so far clear? Do you have any questions? Note: I am
> >not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.
> >
> >History: I replaced an Ethernet cable to one of the computers Wednesday
> >(before Thanksgiving). It involved drilling and crawling under my house. It
> >was not fun. I labled all the wires as they came out of the floor and again
> >as they went back in (or
> >out of the house in the case of the coax cables). When I was done all the
> >wired computers could connect to each other and to the Internet. I didn't
> >think to check the wireless connection as it's always worked. REPEAT: Up
> >until I messed with the router connections, My Vista laptop could see each XP
> >machines and visa versa.
> >
> >Friday I found that I can't connect.
> >
> >Troubleshooting:
> >The router works. As I say, "Blackbox" can see "Tachyon" and "Tachyon" can
> >see "Blackbox". I've just spent a half hour on the phone with Linksys
> >verifying this. It's just that neither can see the HP VISTA laptop.
> >
> >I went to Start>Network>Network and Sharing Center on the wireless Vista
> >laptop which showed that I was connected to Particles (my network) and the
> >Internet. The connection status states:
> >
> >IPv4 Connectivity: Internet
> >IPv6 connectivity: Limited
> >Media state: Enabled
> >SSID: Particles
> >Duration 13:15:11
> >Speed: 54.Mbps
> >Signal quality: 4/5 bars (Very good)
> >Network Discovery is ON (firewall is on and configured. Turning it off
> >doesn't improve/change anything.)
> >
> >REPEAT: TURNING OFF THE FIREWALL OR ANTIVIRUS PROGRAMS HAVE NO EFFECT.
> >
> >The IP addresses of the boxes are:
> >Tachyon = 192.xxx.x.100
> >Blackbox = 192.xxx.1.2
> >Presario = 192.xxx.1.1
> >
> >I mention this because from the laptop I can ping the desktops.
> >I know, I didn't want to confuse the issue, but I CAN reach the Internet on
> >the laptop.
> >
> >Even though I've done this before, I downloaded the Link Layer Topology
> >Discovery (LLTD) Responder (KB922120) and re-installed it on the XP machines.
> >I unplugged both the router and my cable modem and turned off each machine. I
> >went to the kitchen, got a refill on my coffee and came back. I then
> >connected the cable, cooled my coffee off with Irish Cream and connected the
> >router. When all the pretty lights were on, I booted the computer(s). After
> >waiting a lifetime (it's XP on a slow machine), I went to
> >START>Accessories>Windows Explorer>My Network Places> Entire
> >Network>Microsoft Windows Network to see what was showing. Answer: Just the
> >two XP machines.
> >
> >Before going on, do you understand everything I've typed so far? Do you have
> >any questions? Note: I am not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of
> >understanding. Of course I'll hold on while you read/re-read/look up/ask for
> >help.
> >
> >I then went to START>Control Panel>Network and Internet Connections>Network
> >Connections>Local Area Connection (Connected, Firewalled)>Status. There, I
> >found:
> >Status: Connected
> >Duration: 6:46
> >Speed: 100.0Mbps
> >In the Support tab, I found:
> > Address Type: Assigned by DHCP
> >IP Address: 192.xxx.x.xxx
> >Subnet 255.xxx.xxx.x
> >Default: 192.xxx.x.xxx
> >You probably don't even need to know this stuff.
> >
> >Now, the question:
> >Do you have any ideas on how to get my network back in my Vista notebook?
> >
> >HP stated that this is a "known issue" with Vista. they said to contact MS.
> >I responded that "However I might wish to talk to Microsoft about these
> >issues, this Vista is an OEM version and they won't talk to me. I HAVE to get
> >my answers from you." They assured me that MS would talk to me. Of course,
> >they won't.
> >
> >Interesting note: On my laptop, if I go to START and type RUN in the search
> >bar, then type "\\ and then the IP address of the computer I want, it will
> >find and display the computer.
> >
> >ALL I WANT IS TO GO TO START>NETWORKS AND SEE MY TWO XP COMPUTERS! I WANT TO
> >GO TO MY XP COMPUTERS AND GO TO START>
> >
> >At the end of the chat, they said talking to MS would take care of it and
> >then
> >stopped responding. After 5 minutes, I logged off. I then went to my web mail
> >to retrieve my transcript only to find a note thaT SAID THAT SINCE I HAD
> >LOGGED OFF, NO TRANSCRIPT WAS SAVED. This represented over two hours
> >"Talking" to them. I still don't have an answer.
> >
> >Today, I got fed up and copied all my data to another computer
> >(START>RUN>\\IPADDRESS) and restored my computer to factory condition using
> >the HP Restore Disk. It formatted my drive and loaded Vista (plus X MBs of HP
> >stuff). Now I should be able to configure my network just like the first time
> >I got this laptop. I couldn't even reach the Internet, no less, my network.
> >Getting pretty angry, I called HP support and their solution was to have me
> >uninstall the Broadcom 802.11b/g WLAN altogether and download and flash the
> >BIOS. Then, he directed me to check if I could get on the internet.
> >When I could, they pronounced my computer in working order and said the rest
> >was not their problem. This is a side issue, but can anyone explain the
> >limits MS conciders the legal responsability of OEMs? What MUST they support
> >and what MUST MS still support? Where is this written down? Maybe I'll ask in
> >another group.

>
> You've done a lot of work, and some of it may cause confusion in using the
> diagnostics that you've done. I'll ask you to exhaustively produce diagnostic
> logs, and not to make any changes during the diagnosis process following, unless
> instructed to do so. This will help us to help you.
>
> Please start with logs from "browstat status", "ipconfig /all", "net config
> server", and "net config workstation", from each computer. Read this article,
> and linked articles, and follow instructions precisely (download browstat!):
> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp>
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/0...#AskingForHelp
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
> Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
> My email is AT DOT
> actual address pchuck mvps org.
>

One of the OEM groups...

Microsoft provides support to the OEM who is in turn supposed to
support the end users.

The document you are looking for is protected behind the
oem.microsoft.com site....
---
Jeffrey Randow
jeffreycentex@xxxxxx
Windows Networking MVP 2001-2006
http://www.networkblog.net

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:08:05 -0800, brutuswon
<brutuswon@xxxxxx> wrote:

>Thank you. You were, of course, right. Every time I did some research
>(diagnostics) I may have or may NOT have changed something to "optimize"
>something - and I didn't keep notes. After much reading, swearing and
>fiddling around between all my computers, I solved the problem. By the time I
>had "fixed" everything, I had changed the network name on the Vista box. Of
>course, it couldn't see any other computers on that network (HOME vs MSHOME).
>Of course, A) this wasn't the initial problem. B) I don't think it excuses HP
>for not working with me to solve it. It took them 10 days to respond to 3
>emails, and then only when I started to threaten to send daily emails to the
>Board of Directors of HP. Yes, I now know their names and the email of their
>Admin. Assistant.
>
>Anyway, it's fixed, thank you. HOWEVER ... I had another issue that hasn't
>been resolved.
>
>"This is a side issue, but can anyone explain the

>> limits MS considers the legal responsibility of OEMs? What MUST they support
>> and what MUST MS still support? Where is this written down? Maybe I'll ask in
>> another group."

>
>I haven't been able to find the appropriate "group" to post this question.
>Does anyone know?
>
>"Chuck [MVP]" wrote:
>

>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:09:02 -0800, brutuswon
>> <brutuswon@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>

>> >WARNING: Long post!
>> >This is my end of a transcript of a "chat" with HP:
>> >Hi. Listen very carefully. I'm frustrated. I don't want to take it out on
>> >you. To avoid repeating vast amounts of information, I'm going to start with
>> >basic facts and continue to the more complex observations and THEN ask my
>> >questions. You are about to read a lot of information. Please be patient.
>> >I've pre-written most of this, and when we get to a point where I haven't, I
>> >type slowly. I know this isn't the way you're scripted to work but... thank
>> >you for bearing with me.
>> >
>> >I have a Compaq Presario F572US Notebook PC. The computer is running under
>> >Windows Vista Home Premium. My network workgroup is MSHOME. My home network
>> >is called Particles. I was sent a Recovery CD, so I deleted my D: drive and
>> >now my C:\ shows 66.5GB used space and 7.95GB free space. I have a WRT54G
>> >S/N:xxxxxxxxxxx; ver. 6; MAC: xxxxxxxxxA. Feel free to refer back to these
>> >primary notes.
>> >
>> >Do you understand everything I've typed so far? Note: I am not asking for
>> >solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.
>> >
>> >I am sitting in a room with a router connected (wired) to three (3) other
>> >computers. One of them is runnung Windows Vista Ultimate. I am not concerned
>> >about this computer yet. I will not refer to it in the future. The other two
>> >desktop computers ("Blackbox" and "Tachyon") are wired, running under Windows
>> >XP (SP2). "Tachyon" is directly connected to the router. I'm going to move
>> >there now. They also belong to the network "Particles" and share the
>> >workgroup "MSHOME". Let's call them"Blackbox" and"Tachyon". Tachyon is
>> >directly connected to the router.
>> >
>> >Is everything I've typed so far clear? Do you have any questions? Note: I am
>> >not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of understanding.
>> >
>> >History: I replaced an Ethernet cable to one of the computers Wednesday
>> >(before Thanksgiving). It involved drilling and crawling under my house. It
>> >was not fun. I labled all the wires as they came out of the floor and again
>> >as they went back in (or
>> >out of the house in the case of the coax cables). When I was done all the
>> >wired computers could connect to each other and to the Internet. I didn't
>> >think to check the wireless connection as it's always worked. REPEAT: Up
>> >until I messed with the router connections, My Vista laptop could see each XP
>> >machines and visa versa.
>> >
>> >Friday I found that I can't connect.
>> >
>> >Troubleshooting:
>> >The router works. As I say, "Blackbox" can see "Tachyon" and "Tachyon" can
>> >see "Blackbox". I've just spent a half hour on the phone with Linksys
>> >verifying this. It's just that neither can see the HP VISTA laptop.
>> >
>> >I went to Start>Network>Network and Sharing Center on the wireless Vista
>> >laptop which showed that I was connected to Particles (my network) and the
>> >Internet. The connection status states:
>> >
>> >IPv4 Connectivity: Internet
>> >IPv6 connectivity: Limited
>> >Media state: Enabled
>> >SSID: Particles
>> >Duration 13:15:11
>> >Speed: 54.Mbps
>> >Signal quality: 4/5 bars (Very good)
>> >Network Discovery is ON (firewall is on and configured. Turning it off
>> >doesn't improve/change anything.)
>> >
>> >REPEAT: TURNING OFF THE FIREWALL OR ANTIVIRUS PROGRAMS HAVE NO EFFECT.
>> >
>> >The IP addresses of the boxes are:
>> >Tachyon = 192.xxx.x.100
>> >Blackbox = 192.xxx.1.2
>> >Presario = 192.xxx.1.1
>> >
>> >I mention this because from the laptop I can ping the desktops.
>> >I know, I didn't want to confuse the issue, but I CAN reach the Internet on
>> >the laptop.
>> >
>> >Even though I've done this before, I downloaded the Link Layer Topology
>> >Discovery (LLTD) Responder (KB922120) and re-installed it on the XP machines.
>> >I unplugged both the router and my cable modem and turned off each machine. I
>> >went to the kitchen, got a refill on my coffee and came back. I then
>> >connected the cable, cooled my coffee off with Irish Cream and connected the
>> >router. When all the pretty lights were on, I booted the computer(s). After
>> >waiting a lifetime (it's XP on a slow machine), I went to
>> >START>Accessories>Windows Explorer>My Network Places> Entire
>> >Network>Microsoft Windows Network to see what was showing. Answer: Just the
>> >two XP machines.
>> >
>> >Before going on, do you understand everything I've typed so far? Do you have
>> >any questions? Note: I am not asking for solutions yet, just confirmation of
>> >understanding. Of course I'll hold on while you read/re-read/look up/ask for
>> >help.
>> >
>> >I then went to START>Control Panel>Network and Internet Connections>Network
>> >Connections>Local Area Connection (Connected, Firewalled)>Status. There, I
>> >found:
>> >Status: Connected
>> >Duration: 6:46
>> >Speed: 100.0Mbps
>> >In the Support tab, I found:
>> > Address Type: Assigned by DHCP
>> >IP Address: 192.xxx.x.xxx
>> >Subnet 255.xxx.xxx.x
>> >Default: 192.xxx.x.xxx
>> >You probably don't even need to know this stuff.
>> >
>> >Now, the question:
>> >Do you have any ideas on how to get my network back in my Vista notebook?
>> >
>> >HP stated that this is a "known issue" with Vista. they said to contact MS.
>> >I responded that "However I might wish to talk to Microsoft about these
>> >issues, this Vista is an OEM version and they won't talk to me. I HAVE to get
>> >my answers from you." They assured me that MS would talk to me. Of course,
>> >they won't.
>> >
>> >Interesting note: On my laptop, if I go to START and type RUN in the search
>> >bar, then type "\\ and then the IP address of the computer I want, it will
>> >find and display the computer.
>> >
>> >ALL I WANT IS TO GO TO START>NETWORKS AND SEE MY TWO XP COMPUTERS! I WANT TO
>> >GO TO MY XP COMPUTERS AND GO TO START>
>> >
>> >At the end of the chat, they said talking to MS would take care of it and
>> >then
>> >stopped responding. After 5 minutes, I logged off. I then went to my web mail
>> >to retrieve my transcript only to find a note thaT SAID THAT SINCE I HAD
>> >LOGGED OFF, NO TRANSCRIPT WAS SAVED. This represented over two hours
>> >"Talking" to them. I still don't have an answer.
>> >
>> >Today, I got fed up and copied all my data to another computer
>> >(START>RUN>\\IPADDRESS) and restored my computer to factory condition using
>> >the HP Restore Disk. It formatted my drive and loaded Vista (plus X MBs of HP
>> >stuff). Now I should be able to configure my network just like the first time
>> >I got this laptop. I couldn't even reach the Internet, no less, my network.
>> >Getting pretty angry, I called HP support and their solution was to have me
>> >uninstall the Broadcom 802.11b/g WLAN altogether and download and flash the
>> >BIOS. Then, he directed me to check if I could get on the internet.
>> >When I could, they pronounced my computer in working order and said the rest
>> >was not their problem. This is a side issue, but can anyone explain the
>> >limits MS conciders the legal responsability of OEMs? What MUST they support
>> >and what MUST MS still support? Where is this written down? Maybe I'll ask in
>> >another group.

>>
>> You've done a lot of work, and some of it may cause confusion in using the
>> diagnostics that you've done. I'll ask you to exhaustively produce diagnostic
>> logs, and not to make any changes during the diagnosis process following, unless
>> instructed to do so. This will help us to help you.
>>
>> Please start with logs from "browstat status", "ipconfig /all", "net config
>> server", and "net config workstation", from each computer. Read this article,
>> and linked articles, and follow instructions precisely (download browstat!):
>> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp>
>> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/0...#AskingForHelp
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
>> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
>> Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
>> My email is AT DOT
>> actual address pchuck mvps org.
>>