Seeing other computers in workgroup

Hey there,

I just upgraded to vista. All other computers on my home network are
running XP.

I managed to connect to the network, and to the internet.
The problem is that none of the other machines are showing up under
'network' on my computer.
I've turned on network discovery, we're all in the workgroup "mshome", the
network is 'private'.
Is there something I'm missing?


Stegura

Stegura wrote:
> Hey there,
>
> I just upgraded to vista. All other computers on my home network are
> running XP.
>
> I managed to connect to the network, and to the internet.
> The problem is that none of the other machines are showing up under
> 'network' on my computer.
> I've turned on network discovery, we're all in the workgroup "mshome", the
> network is 'private'.
> Is there something I'm missing?
>
>
> Stegura


start reading previous posts and welcome to the half-baked networking
features in vista. good luck solving your problem.



Oskar

Stegura wrote:
> Hey there,
>
> I just upgraded to vista. All other computers on my home network are
> running XP.
>
> I managed to connect to the network, and to the internet.
> The problem is that none of the other machines are showing up under
> 'network' on my computer.
> I've turned on network discovery, we're all in the workgroup "mshome", the
> network is 'private'.
> Is there something I'm missing?

In spite of what the other poster said, networking with Vista and XP is
very easy. You just need to take things step-by-step and not get
flummoxed. The following looks like a lot of information but if you just
work carefully and systematically and not allow yourself to be daunted,
you will get your Local Area Network set up without much trouble.

*****
This link will take you through Vista networking very well:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/net.../vista_fp.mspx

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally
caused by 1) a misconfigured firewall; or 2) inadvertently running two
firewalls such as the built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party
firewall; and/or 3) not having identical user accounts and passwords on
all Workgroup machines; 4) trying to create shares where the operating
system does not permit it.

Here are some general networking tips for home/small networks:

1. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network
(LAN) traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing
File/Printer Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network
Setup Wizard on XP will take care of this for those machines.The only
"gotcha" is that this will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you
aren't running a third-party firewall or have an antivirus with
"Internet Worm Protection" (like Norton 2006/07) which acts as a
firewall, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually
configure the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be
192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254. Obviously you would substitute your correct
subnet. Do not run more than one firewall.

2. With earlier Microsoft operating systems, the name of the Workgroup
didn't matter. Apparently it does with Vista, so put all computers in
the same Workgroup. This is done from the System applet in Control
Panel, Computer Name tab.

3. Create identical user accounts and passwords on all machines. If you
wish a machine to boot directly to the Desktop (into one particular
user's account) for convenience, you can do this. The instructions at
this link work for both XP and Vista:

Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

4. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center:

a. If you need Pro's ability to set fine-grained permissions, turn off
Simple File Sharing (Folder Options>View tab) and create identical user
accounts/passwords on all computers.

b. If you don't care about using Pro's advanced features, leave the
Simple File Sharing enabled.

Simple File Sharing means that Guest (network) is enabled. This means
that anyone without a user account on the target system can use its
resources. This is a security hole but only you can decide if it matters
in your situation.

I think it is a good idea to create the identical user
accounts/passwords in any case when Vista machines are involved and it
isn't an onerous task with home/small networks.

5. Create shares as desired. XP Home does not permit sharing of users'
home directories (My Documents) or Program Files, but you can share
folders inside those directories. A better choice is to simply use the
Shared Documents folder. See the first link above for details about
Vista sharing.
*****

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Malke wrote:
> Stegura wrote:
>> Hey there,
>>
>> I just upgraded to vista. All other computers on my home network are
>> running XP.
>>
>> I managed to connect to the network, and to the internet. The problem
>> is that none of the other machines are showing up under 'network' on
>> my computer.
>> I've turned on network discovery, we're all in the workgroup "mshome",
>> the network is 'private'.
>> Is there something I'm missing?
>
> In spite of what the other poster said, networking with Vista and XP is
> very easy. You just need to take things step-by-step and not get
> flummoxed. The following looks like a lot of information but if you just
> work carefully and systematically and not allow yourself to be daunted,
> you will get your Local Area Network set up without much trouble.
>
> *****
> This link will take you through Vista networking very well:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/net.../vista_fp.mspx
>
> Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally
> caused by 1) a misconfigured firewall; or 2) inadvertently running two
> firewalls such as the built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party
> firewall; and/or 3) not having identical user accounts and passwords on
> all Workgroup machines; 4) trying to create shares where the operating
> system does not permit it.
>
> Here are some general networking tips for home/small networks:
>
> 1. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network
> (LAN) traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing
> File/Printer Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network
> Setup Wizard on XP will take care of this for those machines.The only
> "gotcha" is that this will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you
> aren't running a third-party firewall or have an antivirus with
> "Internet Worm Protection" (like Norton 2006/07) which acts as a
> firewall, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually
> configure the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be
> 192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254. Obviously you would substitute your correct
> subnet. Do not run more than one firewall.
>
> 2. With earlier Microsoft operating systems, the name of the Workgroup
> didn't matter. Apparently it does with Vista, so put all computers in
> the same Workgroup. This is done from the System applet in Control
> Panel, Computer Name tab.
>
> 3. Create identical user accounts and passwords on all machines. If you
> wish a machine to boot directly to the Desktop (into one particular
> user's account) for convenience, you can do this. The instructions at
> this link work for both XP and Vista:
>
> Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
> http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm
>
> 4. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center:
>
> a. If you need Pro's ability to set fine-grained permissions, turn off
> Simple File Sharing (Folder Options>View tab) and create identical user
> accounts/passwords on all computers.
>
> b. If you don't care about using Pro's advanced features, leave the
> Simple File Sharing enabled.
>
> Simple File Sharing means that Guest (network) is enabled. This means
> that anyone without a user account on the target system can use its
> resources. This is a security hole but only you can decide if it matters
> in your situation.
>
> I think it is a good idea to create the identical user
> accounts/passwords in any case when Vista machines are involved and it
> isn't an onerous task with home/small networks.
>
> 5. Create shares as desired. XP Home does not permit sharing of users'
> home directories (My Documents) or Program Files, but you can share
> folders inside those directories. A better choice is to simply use the
> Shared Documents folder. See the first link above for details about
> Vista sharing.
> *****
>
> Malke
Hi Malke,
so maybe you can answer this question. windows XP, 2000, NT, even 98
could see more than one workgroup at the same time.

network neighborhood was browseable by entire microsoft network or
computers near you. I've tried for 2 weeks now to get vista to see a
network with mixed OS's and 2 workgroups. I've tried the suggestions on
the article you mentioned. I even turned off the windows firewall
(since we're behind a firewall already) and it still refuses to see 2
workgroups.

So is the bottom line that vista sees only ONE workgroup? I've got
several sites I work at that have more than one workgroup on purpose.
These people don't have the $$$ to spend for a server so they do what
they need with the windows workstation OS they have.

so the way network neighborhood used to work is now gone? I'm still in
the early stages of using vista but I have to admit this is a bit
confusing. what was wrong with the way network browsing worked? I
didn't hear anyone complaining about that aspect of windows. what
people complained about was security problems, viruses, having to run
windows as administrator (which is NOT a good idea for production use),
having to reboot windows at least once a week due to memory leaks,
windows (or applications) prone to corruption (patches anyone??), etc.

This was what most people's complaints were, not network browsing!

news wrote:

> Hi Malke,
> so maybe you can answer this question. windows XP, 2000, NT, even 98
> could see more than one workgroup at the same time.

Yes, but for some reason it works better to have the same Workgroup in
some instances. It's a mystery, but for instance in our school network
putting all the workstations (not domain members) in Workgroup instead
of MSHOME pops up the connection to a server share immediately. They
never find it if we leave them MSHOME - oh, and those workstations are
running XP Home Edition.

> network neighborhood was browseable by entire microsoft network or
> computers near you. I've tried for 2 weeks now to get vista to see a
> network with mixed OS's and 2 workgroups. I've tried the suggestions on
> the article you mentioned. I even turned off the windows firewall
> (since we're behind a firewall already) and it still refuses to see 2
> workgroups.

It's not possible for me to tell you what you're doing wrong, but you
*are* doing something wrong. I have Linux, OS X, Vista Premium, XP Home,
and XP Pro on my network and all the machines can share files just fine.

>
> So is the bottom line that vista sees only ONE workgroup? I've got
> several sites I work at that have more than one workgroup on purpose.
> These people don't have the $$$ to spend for a server so they do what
> they need with the windows workstation OS they have.

I can't confirm that Vista only sees one Workgroup. I have read that you
should set the same Workgroup but have not seen where that is an actual
requirement. If your clients have multiple Workgroups, then the Vista
machine will be in one of them so what's the big deal? Or tell your
clients not to move to Vista. Businesses shouldn't be moving to Vista
yet anyway.

> so the way network neighborhood used to work is now gone? I'm still in
> the early stages of using vista but I have to admit this is a bit
> confusing. what was wrong with the way network browsing worked? I
> didn't hear anyone complaining about that aspect of windows. what
> people complained about was security problems, viruses, having to run
> windows as administrator (which is NOT a good idea for production use),
> having to reboot windows at least once a week due to memory leaks,
> windows (or applications) prone to corruption (patches anyone??), etc.

Actually Network Neighborhood (My Network Places in XP) was always very
unreliable and not the best way to access network resources. Better to
create shortcuts to regularly used network resources and/or map drives.

Again, I don't know why you are having such difficulties. Vista machines
aren't yet thick on the ground here but I haven't had any difficulty in
networking them for clients or myself.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Malke wrote:
> news wrote:
>
>> Hi Malke,
>> so maybe you can answer this question. windows XP, 2000, NT, even 98
>> could see more than one workgroup at the same time.
>
> Yes, but for some reason it works better to have the same Workgroup in
> some instances. It's a mystery, but for instance in our school network
> putting all the workstations (not domain members) in Workgroup instead
> of MSHOME pops up the connection to a server share immediately. They
> never find it if we leave them MSHOME - oh, and those workstations are
> running XP Home Edition.
>
>> network neighborhood was browseable by entire microsoft network or
>> computers near you. I've tried for 2 weeks now to get vista to see a
>> network with mixed OS's and 2 workgroups. I've tried the suggestions
>> on the article you mentioned. I even turned off the windows firewall
>> (since we're behind a firewall already) and it still refuses to see 2
>> workgroups.
>
> It's not possible for me to tell you what you're doing wrong, but you
> *are* doing something wrong. I have Linux, OS X, Vista Premium, XP Home,
> and XP Pro on my network and all the machines can share files just fine.
>
>>
>> So is the bottom line that vista sees only ONE workgroup? I've got
>> several sites I work at that have more than one workgroup on purpose.
>> These people don't have the $$$ to spend for a server so they do what
>> they need with the windows workstation OS they have.
>
> I can't confirm that Vista only sees one Workgroup. I have read that you
> should set the same Workgroup but have not seen where that is an actual
> requirement. If your clients have multiple Workgroups, then the Vista
> machine will be in one of them so what's the big deal? Or tell your
> clients not to move to Vista. Businesses shouldn't be moving to Vista
> yet anyway.

this is exactly what I did, vista can see one workgroup but not the
other via network neighborhood. if i point vista directly to the
servers on the other workgroup (via //server1/share), this works fine.
but client wants to know why vista can't see the other workgroup via
network neighborhood. this is how their office has worked for years
without any problems, until windows vista.

I suggest to them that I can just map the drives manually, but they
insist on being able to browse to those shared folders via network
neighborhood (like they can on windows xp and unix/linux servers).

what do I tell them? I would really like to know the answer to this.
At this point it seems to me that vista can see only ONE workgroup. I'm
not sure of this - if anyone else can verify this that would be great.

Thank you so much for your patience with this matter. I'm sorry if I
get on a rant but this can start to get on your nerves after a while.

Oskar


>
>> so the way network neighborhood used to work is now gone? I'm still
>> in the early stages of using vista but I have to admit this is a bit
>> confusing. what was wrong with the way network browsing worked? I
>> didn't hear anyone complaining about that aspect of windows. what
>> people complained about was security problems, viruses, having to run
>> windows as administrator (which is NOT a good idea for production
>> use), having to reboot windows at least once a week due to memory
>> leaks, windows (or applications) prone to corruption (patches
>> anyone??), etc.
>
> Actually Network Neighborhood (My Network Places in XP) was always very
> unreliable and not the best way to access network resources. Better to
> create shortcuts to regularly used network resources and/or map drives.
>
> Again, I don't know why you are having such difficulties. Vista machines
> aren't yet thick on the ground here but I haven't had any difficulty in
> networking them for clients or myself.
>
>
> Malke

news wrote:

> this is exactly what I did, vista can see one workgroup but not the
> other via network neighborhood. if i point vista directly to the
> servers on the other workgroup (via //server1/share), this works fine.
> but client wants to know why vista can't see the other workgroup via
> network neighborhood. this is how their office has worked for years
> without any problems, until windows vista.

If what your client wants is to see the other computers on the Network
Map, see:

Network Map Does Not Display Computers Running Windows XP - TechNet -
http://tinyurl.com/25tvod

For computers running Windows XP to appear on the Network Map diagram,
you must download and install the LLTD Responder component. With the
LLTD Responder, a computer running Windows XP can respond to other
Windows Vista computers on the network that are attempting to create a
network map.

To install the LLTD Responder to a computer running Windows XP:

1. Download the update for Windows XP from
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=70582
2. Run the update on the computer running Windows XP that you want to
appear on the Network Map.
3. On the Software Update Installation Wizard, click Next.
4. On the License Agreement page, read the license agreement, and if you
agree to the terms, click I Agree, and then click Next.
5. On the final page of the wizard, click Finish.
6. If you are prompted to do so, restart your computer.
7. After your computer running Windows XP restarts, generate a new
Network Map with the computer running Windows XP included.

In addition to this, since this is not a domain make sure that you have
made identical user accounts and passwords on all machines and set share
permissions correctly. For networking with *nix machines, there is
additional work to be done.

The first thing you should do is make sure you have the latest version
of Samba on the *nix machines. Don't forget that you need to add the
Vista user to the *nix machines *AND* to Samba. I think the easiest way
is from the console, so open one, su to root, and type:

smbpasswd -a username [enter]
(enter password)
(enter password again)

In addition to that, Vista no longer permits LM or NTLM authentication
by default, only NTLMv2. You can either change Vista's setting or 1)
make sure you have the latest Samba; 2) change your smb.conf file. For
the latter, enable NTLMv2 by adding "client ntlmv2 auth = yes" (without
the quotes) to smb.conf.

To make the change on Vista:

Start>Run>secpol.msc [enter]

Click on "Local Policies" --> "Security Options"

Navigate to the policy "Network Security: LAN Manager authentication
level" and double-click it to get its Properties. By default Windows
Vista sets the policy to "NTVLM2 responses only". Use the drop-down
arrow to change this to "LM and NTLM – use NTLMV2 session security if
negotiated".

In Vista Home Premium, you won't have this tool so per Steve Winograd, do:

1. Run the registry editor and open this key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa

1. If it doesn't already exist, create a DWORD value named
LmCompatibilityLevel

3. Set the value to 1

4. Reboot


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

"Malke" <notreally@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:OdZibCC2HHA.3788@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> news wrote:
>
> In addition to this, since this is not a domain make sure that you have
> made identical user accounts and passwords on all machines and set share
> permissions correctly. For networking with *nix machines, there is
> additional work to be done.
>
SNIP.............

Me again, sorry.

I and many others here appreciate all the good words you've provided in
trying to solve XP/Vista network file/folder sharing. As you say, it's
easy, but for some reason, most of us just can't make it work! Our systems
work GREAT in ALL respects, but the sharing function is the big elephant in
the room.

Regarding your statement above, this may be a part of my problem -- I refuse
to name and password both my computers with the same info! This is just
plain crass. Our home computers are used by two separate people with
personalized user names and passwords. To HAVE to make them both the same
should not be required.

To make this short, Microsoft should read and listen to the many people here
who have these file/folder sharing problems and fix it with an option of
"Simple File Sharing" as in XP and ME. I venture to say that MOST people
with XP and Vista systems have this problem. Some don't bother to post here
because they rely on the Public Folder option, as I do. Others have tried
to fix this themselves, but quit bothering. The small minority whose
systems DO work relied on Geek Squad dudes, or the like, to fix it, and in
some cases I know, even they couldn't figure it out.

OK, enough. Till next time!

EW

"Stegura" wrote:

> Hey there,
>
> I just upgraded to vista. All other computers on my home network are
> running XP.
>
> I managed to connect to the network, and to the internet.
> The problem is that none of the other machines are showing up under
> 'network' on my computer.
> I've turned on network discovery, we're all in the workgroup "mshome", the
> network is 'private'.
> Is there something I'm missing?
>
>
> Stegura



I had the same issue - I right clicked my computer icon and changed the work
group name to what all the other systems was named. I did everthing right...
(and was pulling out my hair till i read your post and the replies...) except
configure my firewall to allow my LAN.

> thanks and I hope this will help anyone that reads this post.
Bubba3629.

bubba3629 wrote:

> I had the same issue - I right clicked my computer icon and changed the work
> group name to what all the other systems was named. I did everthing right...
> (and was pulling out my hair till i read your post and the replies...) except
> configure my firewall to allow my LAN.
>
>> thanks and I hope this will help anyone that reads this post.
> Bubba3629.

;-)

Thanks for taking the time to let us know what worked for you.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User