Vista - What causes this?

I have read that something happens to the OS that causes it to realize the
restore points it has are not an accurate depiction of the volume it is
supposed to be restoring, causeing the restore points to get erased. What
causes that so I can stop my computer from erasing every damn restore point
it makes.

AS long as I don't shut down/restart the computer, they will stay
indefinitely, I kept putting the computer in S3 sleep mode for a few weeks
and all of the restore points (automatic or manual) stayed. As soon as I
restarted due to the updates, they were all erased.

I know that windows XP erases them, but I do not have windows XP installed,
so please do not post links to the Windows XP fixes for this issue - they
won't help.

Hi,

Certain updates erase old restore points to prevent an attempt to revert to
a state where an updated system file is not compatible. Now, if the restore
points are wiped out on every reboot, that would be different, but if you
are only restarting every couple of weeks then I would expect that one or
more of the updates are erasing older points.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

"Mason" <Mason@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F4155D39-5EF5-4CBC-A859-F48476922A77@microsoft.com...
>I have read that something happens to the OS that causes it to realize the
> restore points it has are not an accurate depiction of the volume it is
> supposed to be restoring, causeing the restore points to get erased. What
> causes that so I can stop my computer from erasing every damn restore
> point
> it makes.
>
> AS long as I don't shut down/restart the computer, they will stay
> indefinitely, I kept putting the computer in S3 sleep mode for a few weeks
> and all of the restore points (automatic or manual) stayed. As soon as I
> restarted due to the updates, they were all erased.
>
> I know that windows XP erases them, but I do not have windows XP
> installed,
> so please do not post links to the Windows XP fixes for this issue - they
> won't help.

No, its every boot. I did that as an experiment to see if it was the reboot
that did it or if it just happened. I have confirmed it was rebooting the
computer... Every single time.

I see on third party websites that it happens every so often with ultimate.
(Which is what I have) and here is an error message that everyone gets, my
self included, upon the automatic startup after restoring the system to what
ever restore point was created earlier in the same windows session.

It reads:

There was an unexpected error.
The parameter is incorrect. (0x80070057)
Please close System Restore and try again.

BUT, the restore is completed successfully, but the restore point gets
erased, so there is no undoing the restore.

"Rick Rogers" wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Certain updates erase old restore points to prevent an attempt to revert to
> a state where an updated system file is not compatible. Now, if the restore
> points are wiped out on every reboot, that would be different, but if you
> are only restarting every couple of weeks then I would expect that one or
> more of the updates are erasing older points.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>
> "Mason" <Mason@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:F4155D39-5EF5-4CBC-A859-F48476922A77@microsoft.com...
> >I have read that something happens to the OS that causes it to realize the
> > restore points it has are not an accurate depiction of the volume it is
> > supposed to be restoring, causeing the restore points to get erased. What
> > causes that so I can stop my computer from erasing every damn restore
> > point
> > it makes.
> >
> > AS long as I don't shut down/restart the computer, they will stay
> > indefinitely, I kept putting the computer in S3 sleep mode for a few weeks
> > and all of the restore points (automatic or manual) stayed. As soon as I
> > restarted due to the updates, they were all erased.
> >
> > I know that windows XP erases them, but I do not have windows XP
> > installed,
> > so please do not post links to the Windows XP fixes for this issue - they
> > won't help.
>
>

The attached KB 305193 in an explanation of the error, (info only) I would
not consider attempting to repair unless you know absolutely what is required.
Have you attempted to Restore as the error suggests?
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305193/en-us
--
Regards
Bob J
If advise given from anyone, solves problem or not, or if solved from
another source,post back & let us know.
Then we all benefit.



"Mason" wrote:

> I have read that something happens to the OS that causes it to realize the
> restore points it has are not an accurate depiction of the volume it is
> supposed to be restoring, causeing the restore points to get erased. What
> causes that so I can stop my computer from erasing every damn restore point
> it makes.
>
> AS long as I don't shut down/restart the computer, they will stay
> indefinitely, I kept putting the computer in S3 sleep mode for a few weeks
> and all of the restore points (automatic or manual) stayed. As soon as I
> restarted due to the updates, they were all erased.
>
> I know that windows XP erases them, but I do not have windows XP installed,
> so please do not post links to the Windows XP fixes for this issue - they
> won't help.

Hi Mason,

When you state "everyone gets", do you mean all users of this machine? Or
all users in a work environment? That error code can be associated with both
the BITS and VSS services.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

"Mason" <Mason@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:48CD5447-DC34-43B2-9B67-BB95BB110081@microsoft.com...
> No, its every boot. I did that as an experiment to see if it was the
> reboot
> that did it or if it just happened. I have confirmed it was rebooting the
> computer... Every single time.
>
> I see on third party websites that it happens every so often with
> ultimate.
> (Which is what I have) and here is an error message that everyone gets, my
> self included, upon the automatic startup after restoring the system to
> what
> ever restore point was created earlier in the same windows session.
>
> It reads:
>
> There was an unexpected error.
> The parameter is incorrect. (0x80070057)
> Please close System Restore and try again.
>
> BUT, the restore is completed successfully, but the restore point gets
> erased, so there is no undoing the restore.
>
> "Rick Rogers" wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Certain updates erase old restore points to prevent an attempt to revert
>> to
>> a state where an updated system file is not compatible. Now, if the
>> restore
>> points are wiped out on every reboot, that would be different, but if you
>> are only restarting every couple of weeks then I would expect that one or
>> more of the updates are erasing older points.
>>
>> --
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>>
>> "Mason" <Mason@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:F4155D39-5EF5-4CBC-A859-F48476922A77@microsoft.com...
>> >I have read that something happens to the OS that causes it to realize
>> >the
>> > restore points it has are not an accurate depiction of the volume it is
>> > supposed to be restoring, causeing the restore points to get erased.
>> > What
>> > causes that so I can stop my computer from erasing every damn restore
>> > point
>> > it makes.
>> >
>> > AS long as I don't shut down/restart the computer, they will stay
>> > indefinitely, I kept putting the computer in S3 sleep mode for a few
>> > weeks
>> > and all of the restore points (automatic or manual) stayed. As soon as
>> > I
>> > restarted due to the updates, they were all erased.
>> >
>> > I know that windows XP erases them, but I do not have windows XP
>> > installed,
>> > so please do not post links to the Windows XP fixes for this issue -
>> > they
>> > won't help.
>>
>>

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 20:01:40 -0400, "Rick Rogers"

>Certain updates erase old restore points to prevent an attempt to revert to
>a state where an updated system file is not compatible.

Eh? I thought the whole *point* of System Restore was the ability to
roll back such updated files, and that we "need" System Restore in
case an update screws up the system.

So how we have updates that deliberately break your ability to undo
them? Those wouldn't happen to be user-hostile pushware, such as
WGA(N) and/or DRM revocations, would they?

>Now, if the restore points are wiped out on every reboot, that would
>be different, but if you are only restarting every couple of weeks then
>I would expect that one or more of the updates are erasing older points.

Sounds whiffy.

If you unmask what AutoChk usually kills, buries and denies after it
"fixes" things after bad exits, you will see that in XP, the \SVI gets
shot to pieces on a regular basis. I often wonder how reliable it can
be, in the following scenario:
- something crashes the PC, forcing bad exits
- the bad exits corrupt System Restore material in \SVI
- you do a SysRestore to blindly "fix" whatever's crashing the PC

So maybe Vista is aware that \SVI (or Vista's more hidden equivalent)
is going to be trashed after bad exits, and silently purges it
whenever AutoChk has run, or (more sophisticated) AutoChk reports it
has "fixed" material within the SR store?

Couple that with an ATX hassle that cuts power to the HD before it has
flushed to platters, and you'd have your failure pattern.






>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:00:00 -0700, Mason

>No, its every boot. I did that as an experiment to see if it was the reboot
>that did it or if it just happened. I have confirmed it was rebooting the
>computer... Every single time.

When you say "rebooting", do you mean:
- Start, Shutdown, Restart
- pressing the reset button on the case
?

>There was an unexpected error.
>The parameter is incorrect. (0x80070057)
>Please close System Restore and try again.
>
>BUT, the restore is completed successfully, but the restore point gets
>erased, so there is no undoing the restore.

Hmm... another possible scenario suggests itself:
- you have resident malware
- this malware updates itself every X minutes
- so it is permanently newer than your av, which can't detect it
- but when your do a System Restore, the av jumps in...



>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

No, when I say, "Everyone gets" I mean every person who posted a thread wth
the same symptoms as me.

"Rick Rogers" wrote:

> Hi Mason,
>
> When you state "everyone gets", do you mean all users of this machine? Or
> all users in a work environment? That error code can be associated with both
> the BITS and VSS services.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>
> "Mason" <Mason@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:48CD5447-DC34-43B2-9B67-BB95BB110081@microsoft.com...
> > No, its every boot. I did that as an experiment to see if it was the
> > reboot
> > that did it or if it just happened. I have confirmed it was rebooting the
> > computer... Every single time.
> >
> > I see on third party websites that it happens every so often with
> > ultimate.
> > (Which is what I have) and here is an error message that everyone gets, my
> > self included, upon the automatic startup after restoring the system to
> > what
> > ever restore point was created earlier in the same windows session.
> >
> > It reads:
> >
> > There was an unexpected error.
> > The parameter is incorrect. (0x80070057)
> > Please close System Restore and try again.
> >
> > BUT, the restore is completed successfully, but the restore point gets
> > erased, so there is no undoing the restore.
> >
> > "Rick Rogers" wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Certain updates erase old restore points to prevent an attempt to revert
> >> to
> >> a state where an updated system file is not compatible. Now, if the
> >> restore
> >> points are wiped out on every reboot, that would be different, but if you
> >> are only restarting every couple of weeks then I would expect that one or
> >> more of the updates are erasing older points.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best of Luck,
> >>
> >> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> >> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> >> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> >> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> "Mason" <Mason@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:F4155D39-5EF5-4CBC-A859-F48476922A77@microsoft.com...
> >> >I have read that something happens to the OS that causes it to realize
> >> >the
> >> > restore points it has are not an accurate depiction of the volume it is
> >> > supposed to be restoring, causeing the restore points to get erased.
> >> > What
> >> > causes that so I can stop my computer from erasing every damn restore
> >> > point
> >> > it makes.
> >> >
> >> > AS long as I don't shut down/restart the computer, they will stay
> >> > indefinitely, I kept putting the computer in S3 sleep mode for a few
> >> > weeks
> >> > and all of the restore points (automatic or manual) stayed. As soon as
> >> > I
> >> > restarted due to the updates, they were all erased.
> >> >
> >> > I know that windows XP erases them, but I do not have windows XP
> >> > installed,
> >> > so please do not post links to the Windows XP fixes for this issue -
> >> > they
> >> > won't help.
> >>
> >>
>
>

I get the error after a restore. And, after getting the error, the computer
has rebooted due to the restore process, and the restoe points are purged...
There's my dilema

"Bob J" wrote:

> The attached KB 305193 in an explanation of the error, (info only) I would
> not consider attempting to repair unless you know absolutely what is required.
> Have you attempted to Restore as the error suggests?
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305193/en-us
> --
> Regards
> Bob J
> If advise given from anyone, solves problem or not, or if solved from
> another source,post back & let us know.
> Then we all benefit.
>
>
>
> "Mason" wrote:
>
> > I have read that something happens to the OS that causes it to realize the
> > restore points it has are not an accurate depiction of the volume it is
> > supposed to be restoring, causeing the restore points to get erased. What
> > causes that so I can stop my computer from erasing every damn restore point
> > it makes.
> >
> > AS long as I don't shut down/restart the computer, they will stay
> > indefinitely, I kept putting the computer in S3 sleep mode for a few weeks
> > and all of the restore points (automatic or manual) stayed. As soon as I
> > restarted due to the updates, they were all erased.
> >
> > I know that windows XP erases them, but I do not have windows XP installed,
> > so please do not post links to the Windows XP fixes for this issue - they
> > won't help.

I mean reboot as in, I close my session and shut the coputer down. The next
day, i boot it up and all of the restore points I made were erased.

ALSO, if I make a restore point, then hit start restart, they are erased.

I do not know what the reset button will do. I always properly turn the
computer off if I can help it.

I don't think I have malware as this has been going on since the day that
vista was put on this computer and I run scans for spyware, viruses, etc
religiously using many different scanners: Norton Antivirus 2007, avg
antispyware, Xoftspyse, and spybot S&D, all of which come up clean.

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:00:00 -0700, Mason
>
> >No, its every boot. I did that as an experiment to see if it was the reboot
> >that did it or if it just happened. I have confirmed it was rebooting the
> >computer... Every single time.
>
> When you say "rebooting", do you mean:
> - Start, Shutdown, Restart
> - pressing the reset button on the case
> ?
>
> >There was an unexpected error.
> >The parameter is incorrect. (0x80070057)
> >Please close System Restore and try again.
> >
> >BUT, the restore is completed successfully, but the restore point gets
> >erased, so there is no undoing the restore.
>
> Hmm... another possible scenario suggests itself:
> - you have resident malware
> - this malware updates itself every X minutes
> - so it is permanently newer than your av, which can't detect it
> - but when your do a System Restore, the av jumps in...
>
>
>
> >------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
> The most accurate diagnostic instrument
> in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
> >------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
>