Vista - Lack of FAX Support for Vista Home Premium

you moron

where does it say you will not be able to fax fromm this program ??????


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote:

> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when we upgrade.
>
> --
> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
> Faculty
> Axia/Western International University
> Associate Programs
> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
> 520-241-0126
> Pacific Time
>
>
> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need to read
> that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
> choose. Caveat emptor.
> --
> Russ Valentine
> [MVP-Outlook]
> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >
> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if you
> >> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
> >> --
> >> Russ Valentine
> >> [MVP-Outlook]
> >
> >
> > as haven't you..... smartass
> >
> > to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
> > look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
> >
> > funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW would
> > be their top seller.
> > just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in a
> > "downgrade"
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Mike Hall
> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>
>
>

It means that you have to check what is in the box before you buy it, check
that the version being bought fulfills all that you need.. there were two
versions of XP, Home and Pro.. there are five versions of Vista, Home basic,
Home Premium, Business, Ultimate and Enterprise..

From that it could be reasonably ascertained that there was no simple one
for one changeover.. the beta version was Ultimate which had fax included..
it appears that it was a marketing decision right at the end, and It is
difficult to understand quite why it was taken out .. it came as a surprise
to many, including me..

Unfortunately, little can be done presently.. I think that it is a little
over the top to demand one's money back just because Fax is not included,
and there are alternatives, including perhaps the program supplied with most
modems, which was generally better featured anyway.. there are ways around
without going ballistic, and I did post the link for a free alternative
within these threads..


"ripley56" <ripley56@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:BE164763-9A5C-4587-A3BB-483C1F24F3EE@microsoft.com...
> you moron
>
> where does it say you will not be able to fax fromm this program ??????
>
>
> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote:
>
>> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
>> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
>> we upgrade.
>>
>> --
>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>> Faculty
>> Axia/Western International University
>> Associate Programs
>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>> 520-241-0126
>> Pacific Time
>>
>>
>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
>> to read
>> that information very carefully before they decide on which version
>> to
>> choose. Caveat emptor.
>> --
>> Russ Valentine
>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> >
>> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
>> you
>> >> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
>> >> --
>> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >
>> >
>> > as haven't you..... smartass
>> >
>> > to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
>> > look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
>> >
>> > funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they
>> KNEW would
>> > be their top seller.
>> > just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results
>> in a
>> > "downgrade"
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Mike Hall
>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>>
>>
>>

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can only
state what is and alert others.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"ripley56" <ripley56@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:72E0C706-9121-4FA3-963A-66776A711E07@microsoft.com...
> The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
> with,
> the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
> us,
> and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
> calculators.
>
> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>
>> What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
>> however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
>> --
>> Russ Valentine
>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> "Dan" <nothome@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> news:65C67BA6-9F9D-4C08-BB0C-C48535BCDBD8@microsoft.com...
>> > So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble opinion
>> > for
>> > not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
>> > but
>> > also by upgrading to Vista period.
>> > Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a badge
>> > you
>> > best learn a little something about marketing.
>> > When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
>> > I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
>> > grow
>> > up.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:eMs42U4WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> >>I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
>> >>from
>> >>people with the same complaint which have received a number of
>> >>sympathetic
>> >>replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
>> >>employee
>> >>who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
>> >>department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
>> >>preferred the fax module go into all versions.
>> >> We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint in a
>> >> peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
>> >> here
>> >> remains:
>> >> 1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions. It
>> >> is
>> >> naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
>> >> equivalent
>> >> to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your XP
>> >> version had would remain in Vista.
>> >> 2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista. If
>> >> you
>> >> decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has the
>> >> features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
>> >> wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?
>> >>
>> >> Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
>> >> into
>> >> the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
>> >> partition
>> >> for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a chance
>> >> to
>> >> work with it.
>> >>
>> >> Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so compelling
>> >> that you needed to update to Vista right away?
>> >> --
>> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:95510014-F0FC-43D9-A732-F28E39B263AC@microsoft.com...
>> >> You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
>> >> you
>> >> are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
>> >> that
>> >> worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online after
>> >> doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It didn't
>> >> tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does this
>> >> make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
>> >> disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
>> >> there.
>> >> Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have previously.
>> >> And that really bothers me.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>> >> Faculty
>> >> Axia/Western International University
>> >> Associate Programs
>> >> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>> >> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>> >> 520-241-0126
>> >> Pacific Time
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in
>> >> message news:e1pQ1UuWHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> >> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
>> >> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
>> >> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
>> >> we
>> >> upgrade.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>> >> Faculty
>> >> Axia/Western International University
>> >> Associate Programs
>> >> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>> >> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>> >> 520-241-0126
>> >> Pacific Time
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> >> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
>> >> to
>> >> read
>> >> that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
>> >> choose. Caveat emptor.
>> >> --
>> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> >>>
>> >>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>> news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >>>> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Russ Valentine
>> >>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> as haven't you..... smartass
>> >>>
>> >>> to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
>> >>> look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
>> >>>
>> >>> funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW
>> >>> would
>> >>> be their top seller.
>> >>> just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in
>> >>> a
>> >>> "downgrade"
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mike Hall
>> >> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>

The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe that they
will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody can
possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to pay the
extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?

I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny that
your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's skin,
however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people posting
the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear your MVP
tag proudly.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

> It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can only
> state what is and alert others.
> --
> Russ Valentine
> [MVP-Outlook]
> "ripley56" <ripley56@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:72E0C706-9121-4FA3-963A-66776A711E07@microsoft.com...
> > The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
> > with,
> > the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
> > us,
> > and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
> > calculators.
> >
> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
> >
> >> What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
> >> however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
> >> --
> >> Russ Valentine
> >> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> "Dan" <nothome@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:65C67BA6-9F9D-4C08-BB0C-C48535BCDBD8@microsoft.com...
> >> > So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble opinion
> >> > for
> >> > not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
> >> > but
> >> > also by upgrading to Vista period.
> >> > Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a badge
> >> > you
> >> > best learn a little something about marketing.
> >> > When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
> >> > I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
> >> > grow
> >> > up.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:eMs42U4WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >> >>I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
> >> >>from
> >> >>people with the same complaint which have received a number of
> >> >>sympathetic
> >> >>replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
> >> >>employee
> >> >>who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
> >> >>department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
> >> >>preferred the fax module go into all versions.
> >> >> We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint in a
> >> >> peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
> >> >> here
> >> >> remains:
> >> >> 1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions. It
> >> >> is
> >> >> naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
> >> >> equivalent
> >> >> to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your XP
> >> >> version had would remain in Vista.
> >> >> 2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista. If
> >> >> you
> >> >> decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has the
> >> >> features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
> >> >> wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?
> >> >>
> >> >> Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
> >> >> into
> >> >> the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
> >> >> partition
> >> >> for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a chance
> >> >> to
> >> >> work with it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so compelling
> >> >> that you needed to update to Vista right away?
> >> >> --
> >> >> Russ Valentine
> >> >> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> >> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:95510014-F0FC-43D9-A732-F28E39B263AC@microsoft.com...
> >> >> You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
> >> >> you
> >> >> are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
> >> >> that
> >> >> worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online after
> >> >> doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It didn't
> >> >> tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does this
> >> >> make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
> >> >> disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
> >> >> there.
> >> >> Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have previously.
> >> >> And that really bothers me.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
> >> >> Faculty
> >> >> Axia/Western International University
> >> >> Associate Programs
> >> >> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
> >> >> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
> >> >> 520-241-0126
> >> >> Pacific Time
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in
> >> >> message news:e1pQ1UuWHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >> >> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
> >> >> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
> >> >> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
> >> >> we
> >> >> upgrade.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
> >> >> Faculty
> >> >> Axia/Western International University
> >> >> Associate Programs
> >> >> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
> >> >> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
> >> >> 520-241-0126
> >> >> Pacific Time
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> >> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
> >> >> to
> >> >> read
> >> >> that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
> >> >> choose. Caveat emptor.
> >> >> --
> >> >> Russ Valentine
> >> >> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> >> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >>> news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> >>>> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
> >> >>>> you
> >> >>>> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> Russ Valentine
> >> >>>> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> as haven't you..... smartass
> >> >>>
> >> >>> to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
> >> >>> look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
> >> >>>
> >> >>> funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW
> >> >>> would
> >> >>> be their top seller.
> >> >>> just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> "downgrade"
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Mike Hall
> >> >> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> >> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
>

Just a sour grapes reply.
MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
brought it back in XP.
You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista. Russ
and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you needed
fax capability.



Nick wrote:
> The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
> everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe that they
> will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody can
> possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
> included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to pay the
> extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?
>
> I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
> Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny that
> your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's skin,
> however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people posting
> the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear your MVP
> tag proudly.
>
> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>
>> It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can only
>> state what is and alert others.
>> --
>> Russ Valentine
>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> "ripley56" <ripley56@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:72E0C706-9121-4FA3-963A-66776A711E07@microsoft.com...
>>> The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
>>> with,
>>> the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
>>> us,
>>> and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
>>> calculators.
>>>
>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>>>
>>>> What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
>>>> however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
>>>> --
>>>> Russ Valentine
>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>>>> "Dan" <nothome@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:65C67BA6-9F9D-4C08-BB0C-C48535BCDBD8@microsoft.com...
>>>>> So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble opinion
>>>>> for
>>>>> not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
>>>>> but
>>>>> also by upgrading to Vista period.
>>>>> Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a badge
>>>>> you
>>>>> best learn a little something about marketing.
>>>>> When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
>>>>> I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
>>>>> grow
>>>>> up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:eMs42U4WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> people with the same complaint which have received a number of
>>>>>> sympathetic
>>>>>> replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
>>>>>> employee
>>>>>> who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
>>>>>> department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
>>>>>> preferred the fax module go into all versions.
>>>>>> We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint in a
>>>>>> peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
>>>>>> here
>>>>>> remains:
>>>>>> 1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions. It
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
>>>>>> equivalent
>>>>>> to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your XP
>>>>>> version had would remain in Vista.
>>>>>> 2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista. If
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has the
>>>>>> features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
>>>>>> wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
>>>>>> partition
>>>>>> for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a chance
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> work with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so compelling
>>>>>> that you needed to update to Vista right away?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Russ Valentine
>>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:95510014-F0FC-43D9-A732-F28E39B263AC@microsoft.com...
>>>>>> You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online after
>>>>>> doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It didn't
>>>>>> tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does this
>>>>>> make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
>>>>>> disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
>>>>>> there.
>>>>>> Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have previously.
>>>>>> And that really bothers me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>>>>>> Faculty
>>>>>> Axia/Western International University
>>>>>> Associate Programs
>>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>>>>>> 520-241-0126
>>>>>> Pacific Time
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in
>>>>>> message news:e1pQ1UuWHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
>>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
>>>>>> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> upgrade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>>>>>> Faculty
>>>>>> Axia/Western International University
>>>>>> Associate Programs
>>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>>>>>> 520-241-0126
>>>>>> Pacific Time
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> read
>>>>>> that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
>>>>>> choose. Caveat emptor.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Russ Valentine
>>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>>>>>> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Russ Valentine
>>>>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> as haven't you..... smartass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
>>>>>>> look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be their top seller.
>>>>>>> just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> "downgrade"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike Hall
>>>>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

Sour grapes? I own a retail PC store. I am aware of these issues, however,
the mass majority is not. Nor do they know of these newsgroups. There is no
reason for microsoft to remove faxing from the home edition of Windows other
than to try to squeeze money from users that have relied on it in the past.

"bjr" wrote:

> Just a sour grapes reply.
> MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
> brought it back in XP.
> You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista. Russ
> and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you needed
> fax capability.
>
>
>
> Nick wrote:
> > The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
> > everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe that they
> > will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody can
> > possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
> > included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to pay the
> > extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?
> >
> > I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
> > Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny that
> > your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's skin,
> > however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people posting
> > the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear your MVP
> > tag proudly.
> >
> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
> >
> >> It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can only
> >> state what is and alert others.
> >> --
> >> Russ Valentine
> >> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> "ripley56" <ripley56@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:72E0C706-9121-4FA3-963A-66776A711E07@microsoft.com...
> >>> The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
> >>> with,
> >>> the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
> >>> us,
> >>> and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
> >>> calculators.
> >>>
> >>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
> >>>> however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
> >>>> --
> >>>> Russ Valentine
> >>>> [MVP-Outlook]
> >>>> "Dan" <nothome@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> news:65C67BA6-9F9D-4C08-BB0C-C48535BCDBD8@microsoft.com...
> >>>>> So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble opinion
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
> >>>>> but
> >>>>> also by upgrading to Vista period.
> >>>>> Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a badge
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> best learn a little something about marketing.
> >>>>> When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
> >>>>> I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
> >>>>> grow
> >>>>> up.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:eMs42U4WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>> I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
> >>>>>> from
> >>>>>> people with the same complaint which have received a number of
> >>>>>> sympathetic
> >>>>>> replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
> >>>>>> employee
> >>>>>> who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
> >>>>>> department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
> >>>>>> preferred the fax module go into all versions.
> >>>>>> We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint in a
> >>>>>> peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
> >>>>>> here
> >>>>>> remains:
> >>>>>> 1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions. It
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>> naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
> >>>>>> equivalent
> >>>>>> to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your XP
> >>>>>> version had would remain in Vista.
> >>>>>> 2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista. If
> >>>>>> you
> >>>>>> decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has the
> >>>>>> features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
> >>>>>> wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
> >>>>>> into
> >>>>>> the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
> >>>>>> partition
> >>>>>> for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a chance
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> work with it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so compelling
> >>>>>> that you needed to update to Vista right away?
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Russ Valentine
> >>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
> >>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:95510014-F0FC-43D9-A732-F28E39B263AC@microsoft.com...
> >>>>>> You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
> >>>>>> you
> >>>>>> are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>> worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online after
> >>>>>> doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It didn't
> >>>>>> tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does this
> >>>>>> make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
> >>>>>> disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
> >>>>>> there.
> >>>>>> Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have previously.
> >>>>>> And that really bothers me.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
> >>>>>> Faculty
> >>>>>> Axia/Western International University
> >>>>>> Associate Programs
> >>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
> >>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
> >>>>>> 520-241-0126
> >>>>>> Pacific Time
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in
> >>>>>> message news:e1pQ1UuWHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
> >>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
> >>>>>> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
> >>>>>> we
> >>>>>> upgrade.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
> >>>>>> Faculty
> >>>>>> Axia/Western International University
> >>>>>> Associate Programs
> >>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
> >>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
> >>>>>> 520-241-0126
> >>>>>> Pacific Time
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> read
> >>>>>> that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
> >>>>>> choose. Caveat emptor.
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Russ Valentine
> >>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
> >>>>>> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>> news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>>> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
> >>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Russ Valentine
> >>>>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> as haven't you..... smartass
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
> >>>>>>> look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW
> >>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>> be their top seller.
> >>>>>>> just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> "downgrade"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike Hall
> >>>>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> >>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
>

Other than your personal attacks on me, I quite agree with you. This whole
fiasco is yet another example of how Microsoft's marketing strategy can be
bad for its customers and can compromise what would otherwise be a great
product. Marketing clearly blew it on Vista Fax. They had no clue who
actually uses the Windows fax module (and we all could easily have told them
if they had had the humility to ask). The LEAST likely users to need the
Windows Fax module are the business users. It is not robust, reliable or
full featured enough for businesses and never has been. So who uses it? Home
users who only need to send an occasional fax and don't want to have to
invest in enterprise fax solutions. Yet those are the very users they
discarded, and you have to read the fine print to discover that.

So there. Now is that "helpful?" Not in the least. It changes nothing and
helps no one. The only thing we can do here that will help people is to
advise them to read that fine print and research their OS purchase decisions
as carefully as they do their other purchase decisions. So that's what I've
done. If you find that "insulting," then so be it. Do something more
helpful. Personal attacks on others contribute nothing to these groups.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Nick" <Nick@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:55A562F5-73FD-4F4B-934D-98B415CB3469@microsoft.com...
> The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
> everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe that
> they
> will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody can
> possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
> included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to pay
> the
> extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?
>
> I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
> Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny
> that
> your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's
> skin,
> however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people posting
> the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear your
> MVP
> tag proudly.
>
> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>
>> It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can
>> only
>> state what is and alert others.
>> --
>> Russ Valentine
>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> "ripley56" <ripley56@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:72E0C706-9121-4FA3-963A-66776A711E07@microsoft.com...
>> > The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
>> > with,
>> > the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
>> > us,
>> > and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
>> > calculators.
>> >
>> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
>> >> however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
>> >> --
>> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> "Dan" <nothome@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:65C67BA6-9F9D-4C08-BB0C-C48535BCDBD8@microsoft.com...
>> >> > So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble
>> >> > opinion
>> >> > for
>> >> > not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
>> >> > but
>> >> > also by upgrading to Vista period.
>> >> > Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a
>> >> > badge
>> >> > you
>> >> > best learn a little something about marketing.
>> >> > When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
>> >> > I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
>> >> > grow
>> >> > up.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > news:eMs42U4WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> >> >>I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
>> >> >>from
>> >> >>people with the same complaint which have received a number of
>> >> >>sympathetic
>> >> >>replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
>> >> >>employee
>> >> >>who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
>> >> >>department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
>> >> >>preferred the fax module go into all versions.
>> >> >> We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint
>> >> >> in a
>> >> >> peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
>> >> >> here
>> >> >> remains:
>> >> >> 1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions.
>> >> >> It
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
>> >> >> equivalent
>> >> >> to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your
>> >> >> XP
>> >> >> version had would remain in Vista.
>> >> >> 2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista.
>> >> >> If
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
>> >> >> wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
>> >> >> into
>> >> >> the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
>> >> >> partition
>> >> >> for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a
>> >> >> chance
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> work with it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so
>> >> >> compelling
>> >> >> that you needed to update to Vista right away?
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> >> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:95510014-F0FC-43D9-A732-F28E39B263AC@microsoft.com...
>> >> >> You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online
>> >> >> after
>> >> >> doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It
>> >> >> didn't
>> >> >> tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does
>> >> >> this
>> >> >> make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
>> >> >> disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
>> >> >> there.
>> >> >> Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have
>> >> >> previously.
>> >> >> And that really bothers me.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>> >> >> Faculty
>> >> >> Axia/Western International University
>> >> >> Associate Programs
>> >> >> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>> >> >> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>> >> >> 520-241-0126
>> >> >> Pacific Time
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> message news:e1pQ1UuWHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
>> >> >> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
>> >> >> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them,
>> >> >> when
>> >> >> we
>> >> >> upgrade.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>> >> >> Faculty
>> >> >> Axia/Western International University
>> >> >> Associate Programs
>> >> >> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>> >> >> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>> >> >> 520-241-0126
>> >> >> Pacific Time
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users
>> >> >> need
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> read
>> >> >> that information very carefully before they decide on which version
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> choose. Caveat emptor.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> >> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >>> message
>> >> >>> news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >> >>>> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute
>> >> >>>> if
>> >> >>>> you
>> >> >>>> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
>> >> >>>> --
>> >> >>>> Russ Valentine
>> >> >>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> as haven't you..... smartass
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
>> >> >>> look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they
>> >> >>> KNEW
>> >> >>> would
>> >> >>> be their top seller.
>> >> >>> just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results
>> >> >>> in
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> "downgrade"
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mike Hall
>> >> >> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>> >> >> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>>

Nick

Nobody would buy Vista Ultimate or Business edition just to get Fax surely?
Most home users ran BVRP supplied with their modem, or Winfax/Pro.. if one
suggested using Windows Fax, most either didn't know it was there, or
scoffed at its simplicity..

Why is it such an issue now?


"Nick" <Nick@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news926A562-1BDE-42A8-916A-AD70DFADA390@microsoft.com...
> Sour grapes? I own a retail PC store. I am aware of these issues,
> however,
> the mass majority is not. Nor do they know of these newsgroups. There is
> no
> reason for microsoft to remove faxing from the home edition of Windows
> other
> than to try to squeeze money from users that have relied on it in the
> past.
>
> "bjr" wrote:
>
>> Just a sour grapes reply.
>> MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
>> brought it back in XP.
>> You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista. Russ
>> and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you needed
>> fax capability.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick wrote:
>> > The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
>> > everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe
>> > that they
>> > will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody
>> > can
>> > possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
>> > included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to
>> > pay the
>> > extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?
>> >
>> > I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
>> > Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny
>> > that
>> > your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's
>> > skin,
>> > however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people
>> > posting
>> > the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear
>> > your MVP
>> > tag proudly.
>> >
>> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>> >
>> >> It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can
>> >> only
>> >> state what is and alert others.
>> >> --
>> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> "ripley56" <ripley56@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:72E0C706-9121-4FA3-963A-66776A711E07@microsoft.com...
>> >>> The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
>> >>> with,
>> >>> the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are
>> >>> with
>> >>> us,
>> >>> and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
>> >>> calculators.
>> >>>
>> >>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my
>> >>>> post
>> >>>> however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Russ Valentine
>> >>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >>>> "Dan" <nothome@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> >>>> news:65C67BA6-9F9D-4C08-BB0C-C48535BCDBD8@microsoft.com...
>> >>>>> So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble
>> >>>>> opinion
>> >>>>> for
>> >>>>> not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to
>> >>>>> Vista
>> >>>>> but
>> >>>>> also by upgrading to Vista period.
>> >>>>> Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a
>> >>>>> badge
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>> best learn a little something about marketing.
>> >>>>> When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
>> >>>>> I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
>> >>>>> grow
>> >>>>> up.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>> news:eMs42U4WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> >>>>>> I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous
>> >>>>>> posts
>> >>>>>> from
>> >>>>>> people with the same complaint which have received a number of
>> >>>>>> sympathetic
>> >>>>>> replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
>> >>>>>> employee
>> >>>>>> who said the feature list for each version was made by the
>> >>>>>> marketing
>> >>>>>> department at the last minute, not by the developers who would
>> >>>>>> have
>> >>>>>> preferred the fax module go into all versions.
>> >>>>>> We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint
>> >>>>>> in a
>> >>>>>> peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
>> >>>>>> here
>> >>>>>> remains:
>> >>>>>> 1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different
>> >>>>>> versions. It
>> >>>>>> is
>> >>>>>> naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
>> >>>>>> equivalent
>> >>>>>> to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your
>> >>>>>> XP
>> >>>>>> version had would remain in Vista.
>> >>>>>> 2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista.
>> >>>>>> If
>> >>>>>> you
>> >>>>>> decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car.
>> >>>>>> Why
>> >>>>>> wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
>> >>>>>> into
>> >>>>>> the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
>> >>>>>> partition
>> >>>>>> for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a
>> >>>>>> chance
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> work with it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so
>> >>>>>> compelling
>> >>>>>> that you needed to update to Vista right away?
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Russ Valentine
>> >>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >>>>>> news:95510014-F0FC-43D9-A732-F28E39B263AC@microsoft.com...
>> >>>>>> You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this
>> >>>>>> as
>> >>>>>> you
>> >>>>>> are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
>> >>>>>> that
>> >>>>>> worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online
>> >>>>>> after
>> >>>>>> doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It
>> >>>>>> didn't
>> >>>>>> tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does
>> >>>>>> this
>> >>>>>> make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
>> >>>>>> disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
>> >>>>>> there.
>> >>>>>> Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have
>> >>>>>> previously.
>> >>>>>> And that really bothers me.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>> >>>>>> Faculty
>> >>>>>> Axia/Western International University
>> >>>>>> Associate Programs
>> >>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>> >>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>> >>>>>> 520-241-0126
>> >>>>>> Pacific Time
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote
>> >>>>>> in
>> >>>>>> message news:e1pQ1UuWHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> >>>>>> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
>> >>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >>>>>> news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
>> >>>>>> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them,
>> >>>>>> when
>> >>>>>> we
>> >>>>>> upgrade.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>> >>>>>> Faculty
>> >>>>>> Axia/Western International University
>> >>>>>> Associate Programs
>> >>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>> >>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>> >>>>>> 520-241-0126
>> >>>>>> Pacific Time
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >>>>>> message
>> >>>>>> news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> >>>>>> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users
>> >>>>>> need
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> read
>> >>>>>> that information very carefully before they decide on which
>> >>>>>> version to
>> >>>>>> choose. Caveat emptor.
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Russ Valentine
>> >>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >>>>>> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> >>>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >>>>>>> message
>> >>>>>>> news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >>>>>>>> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute
>> >>>>>>>> if
>> >>>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>>> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>> Russ Valentine
>> >>>>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> as haven't you..... smartass
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
>> >>>>>>> look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they
>> >>>>>>> KNEW
>> >>>>>>> would
>> >>>>>>> be their top seller.
>> >>>>>>> just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually
>> >>>>>>> results in
>> >>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>> "downgrade"
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mike Hall
>> >>>>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>> >>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>>

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Its an issue because BVRP is gone, as is Winfax. In the end, in my case,
we're left with angry customers that, yes, don't read the fine print, but
still expect the features they had before. And after they've spent hundreds
or thousands of dollars only to get home and in the course of using their
PC's the way the want, find out that they are "fax-less".

Of course they come back to us and I can respond that they should have read
the feature list or I could offer to sell them something else, which just
seems like adding insult to injury. Without turning this into any more of a
rant than it already is... the bottom line is that msft has dropped the ball
on a small and not so costly feature that is costing me time and money to
find a work around that is acceptable to the casual user. With BVRP and
Winfax dead, its even harder.

"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote:

> Nick
>
> Nobody would buy Vista Ultimate or Business edition just to get Fax surely?
> Most home users ran BVRP supplied with their modem, or Winfax/Pro.. if one
> suggested using Windows Fax, most either didn't know it was there, or
> scoffed at its simplicity..
>
> Why is it such an issue now?
>
>
> "Nick" <Nick@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news926A562-1BDE-42A8-916A-AD70DFADA390@microsoft.com...
> > Sour grapes? I own a retail PC store. I am aware of these issues,
> > however,
> > the mass majority is not. Nor do they know of these newsgroups. There is
> > no
> > reason for microsoft to remove faxing from the home edition of Windows
> > other
> > than to try to squeeze money from users that have relied on it in the
> > past.
> >
> > "bjr" wrote:
> >
> >> Just a sour grapes reply.
> >> MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
> >> brought it back in XP.
> >> You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista. Russ
> >> and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you needed
> >> fax capability.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Nick wrote:
> >> > The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
> >> > everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe
> >> > that they
> >> > will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody
> >> > can
> >> > possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
> >> > included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to
> >> > pay the
> >> > extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?
> >> >
> >> > I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
> >> > Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny
> >> > that
> >> > your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's
> >> > skin,
> >> > however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people
> >> > posting
> >> > the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear
> >> > your MVP
> >> > tag proudly.
> >> >
> >> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can
> >> >> only
> >> >> state what is and alert others.
> >> >> --
> >> >> Russ Valentine
> >> >> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> >> "ripley56" <ripley56@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:72E0C706-9121-4FA3-963A-66776A711E07@microsoft.com...
> >> >>> The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
> >> >>> with,
> >> >>> the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are
> >> >>> with
> >> >>> us,
> >> >>> and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
> >> >>> calculators.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my
> >> >>>> post
> >> >>>> however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> Russ Valentine
> >> >>>> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> >>>> "Dan" <nothome@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >> >>>> news:65C67BA6-9F9D-4C08-BB0C-C48535BCDBD8@microsoft.com...
> >> >>>>> So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble
> >> >>>>> opinion
> >> >>>>> for
> >> >>>>> not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to
> >> >>>>> Vista
> >> >>>>> but
> >> >>>>> also by upgrading to Vista period.
> >> >>>>> Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a
> >> >>>>> badge
> >> >>>>> you
> >> >>>>> best learn a little something about marketing.
> >> >>>>> When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
> >> >>>>> I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
> >> >>>>> grow
> >> >>>>> up.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >>>>> news:eMs42U4WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >> >>>>>> I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous
> >> >>>>>> posts
> >> >>>>>> from
> >> >>>>>> people with the same complaint which have received a number of
> >> >>>>>> sympathetic
> >> >>>>>> replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
> >> >>>>>> employee
> >> >>>>>> who said the feature list for each version was made by the
> >> >>>>>> marketing
> >> >>>>>> department at the last minute, not by the developers who would
> >> >>>>>> have
> >> >>>>>> preferred the fax module go into all versions.
> >> >>>>>> We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint
> >> >>>>>> in a
> >> >>>>>> peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
> >> >>>>>> here
> >> >>>>>> remains:
> >> >>>>>> 1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different
> >> >>>>>> versions. It
> >> >>>>>> is
> >> >>>>>> naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
> >> >>>>>> equivalent
> >> >>>>>> to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your
> >> >>>>>> XP
> >> >>>>>> version had would remain in Vista.
> >> >>>>>> 2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista.
> >> >>>>>> If
> >> >>>>>> you
> >> >>>>>> decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has
> >> >>>>>> the
> >> >>>>>> features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car.
> >> >>>>>> Why
> >> >>>>>> wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
> >> >>>>>> into
> >> >>>>>> the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
> >> >>>>>> partition
> >> >>>>>> for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a
> >> >>>>>> chance
> >> >>>>>> to
> >> >>>>>> work with it.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so
> >> >>>>>> compelling
> >> >>>>>> that you needed to update to Vista right away?
> >> >>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>> Russ Valentine
> >> >>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> >>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>> news:95510014-F0FC-43D9-A732-F28E39B263AC@microsoft.com...
> >> >>>>>> You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this
> >> >>>>>> as
> >> >>>>>> you
> >> >>>>>> are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
> >> >>>>>> that
> >> >>>>>> worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online
> >> >>>>>> after
> >> >>>>>> doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It
> >> >>>>>> didn't
> >> >>>>>> tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does
> >> >>>>>> this
> >> >>>>>> make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
> >> >>>>>> disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
> >> >>>>>> there.
> >> >>>>>> Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have
> >> >>>>>> previously.
> >> >>>>>> And that really bothers me.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
> >> >>>>>> Faculty
> >> >>>>>> Axia/Western International University
> >> >>>>>> Associate Programs
> >> >>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
> >> >>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
> >> >>>>>> 520-241-0126
> >> >>>>>> Pacific Time
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote
> >> >>>>>> in
> >> >>>>>> message news:e1pQ1UuWHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> >> >>>>>> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
> >> >>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>> news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
> >> >>>>>> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them,
> >> >>>>>> when
> >> >>>>>> we
> >> >>>>>> upgrade.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
> >> >>>>>> Faculty
> >> >>>>>> Axia/Western International University
> >> >>>>>> Associate Programs
> >> >>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
> >> >>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
> >> >>>>>> 520-241-0126
> >> >>>>>> Pacific Time
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >>>>>> message
> >> >>>>>> news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> >>>>>> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users
> >> >>>>>> need
> >> >>>>>> to
> >> >>>>>> read
> >> >>>>>> that information very carefully before they decide on which
> >> >>>>>> version to
> >> >>>>>> choose. Caveat emptor.
> >> >>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>> Russ Valentine
> >> >>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> >>>>>> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
> >> >>>>>> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >> >>>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> >>>>>>> message
> >> >>>>>>> news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> >>>>>>>> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute
> >> >>>>>>>> if
> >> >>>>>>>> you
> >> >>>>>>>> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
> >> >>>>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>>>> Russ Valentine
> >> >>>>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> as haven't you..... smartass
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
> >> >>>>>>> look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they
> >> >>>>>>> KNEW
> >> >>>>>>> would
> >> >>>>>>> be their top seller.
> >> >>>>>>> just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually
> >> >>>>>>> results in
> >> >>>>>>> a
> >> >>>>>>> "downgrade"
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Mike Hall
> >> >>>>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> >> >>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >>
>
> --
>
>
> Mike Hall
> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>
>
>
>

Being on the frontline is not always fun, I will admit.. and agreed that it
does seem silly to drop Fax regardless of whether or not most home users
didn't use it.. maybe somebody will take the decision to supply it through
WU..

The best that any of us can do now is to recommend alternatives and ensure
that we are smiling as we do so..

"Nick" <Nick@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:29253853-2C11-42B6-B9F7-0E084D99C90E@microsoft.com...
> Its an issue because BVRP is gone, as is Winfax. In the end, in my case,
> we're left with angry customers that, yes, don't read the fine print, but
> still expect the features they had before. And after they've spent
> hundreds
> or thousands of dollars only to get home and in the course of using their
> PC's the way the want, find out that they are "fax-less".
>
> Of course they come back to us and I can respond that they should have
> read
> the feature list or I could offer to sell them something else, which just
> seems like adding insult to injury. Without turning this into any more of
> a
> rant than it already is... the bottom line is that msft has dropped the
> ball
> on a small and not so costly feature that is costing me time and money to
> find a work around that is acceptable to the casual user. With BVRP and
> Winfax dead, its even harder.
>
> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote:
>
>> Nick
>>
>> Nobody would buy Vista Ultimate or Business edition just to get Fax
>> surely?
>> Most home users ran BVRP supplied with their modem, or Winfax/Pro.. if
>> one
>> suggested using Windows Fax, most either didn't know it was there, or
>> scoffed at its simplicity..
>>
>> Why is it such an issue now?
>>
>>
>> "Nick" <Nick@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news926A562-1BDE-42A8-916A-AD70DFADA390@microsoft.com...
>> > Sour grapes? I own a retail PC store. I am aware of these issues,
>> > however,
>> > the mass majority is not. Nor do they know of these newsgroups. There
>> > is
>> > no
>> > reason for microsoft to remove faxing from the home edition of Windows
>> > other
>> > than to try to squeeze money from users that have relied on it in the
>> > past.
>> >
>> > "bjr" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Just a sour grapes reply.
>> >> MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
>> >> brought it back in XP.
>> >> You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista.
>> >> Russ
>> >> and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you
>> >> needed
>> >> fax capability.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Nick wrote:
>> >> > The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS
>> >> > and
>> >> > everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe
>> >> > that they
>> >> > will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody
>> >> > can
>> >> > possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is
>> >> > not
>> >> > included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected
>> >> > to
>> >> > pay the
>> >> > extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?
>> >> >
>> >> > I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
>> >> > Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may
>> >> > deny
>> >> > that
>> >> > your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated
>> >> > user's
>> >> > skin,
>> >> > however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people
>> >> > posting
>> >> > the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear
>> >> > your MVP
>> >> > tag proudly.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We
>> >> >> can
>> >> >> only
>> >> >> state what is and alert others.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Russ Valentine
>> >> >> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> >> "ripley56" <ripley56@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:72E0C706-9121-4FA3-963A-66776A711E07@microsoft.com...
>> >> >>> The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are
>> >> >>> you
>> >> >>> with,
>> >> >>> the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are
>> >> >>> with
>> >> >>> us,
>> >> >>> and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
>> >> >>> calculators.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my
>> >> >>>> post
>> >> >>>> however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
>> >> >>>> --
>> >> >>>> Russ Valentine
>> >> >>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> >>>> "Dan" <nothome@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >>>> news:65C67BA6-9F9D-4C08-BB0C-C48535BCDBD8@microsoft.com...
>> >> >>>>> So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble
>> >> >>>>> opinion
>> >> >>>>> for
>> >> >>>>> not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to
>> >> >>>>> Vista
>> >> >>>>> but
>> >> >>>>> also by upgrading to Vista period.
>> >> >>>>> Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a
>> >> >>>>> badge
>> >> >>>>> you
>> >> >>>>> best learn a little something about marketing.
>> >> >>>>> When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
>> >> >>>>> I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need
>> >> >>>>> to
>> >> >>>>> grow
>> >> >>>>> up.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >>>>> message
>> >> >>>>> news:eMs42U4WHHA.4180@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> >> >>>>>> I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous
>> >> >>>>>> posts
>> >> >>>>>> from
>> >> >>>>>> people with the same complaint which have received a number of
>> >> >>>>>> sympathetic
>> >> >>>>>> replies, including a remarkably candid response from a
>> >> >>>>>> Microsoft
>> >> >>>>>> employee
>> >> >>>>>> who said the feature list for each version was made by the
>> >> >>>>>> marketing
>> >> >>>>>> department at the last minute, not by the developers who would
>> >> >>>>>> have
>> >> >>>>>> preferred the fax module go into all versions.
>> >> >>>>>> We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same
>> >> >>>>>> complaint
>> >> >>>>>> in a
>> >> >>>>>> peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home
>> >> >>>>>> message
>> >> >>>>>> here
>> >> >>>>>> remains:
>> >> >>>>>> 1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different
>> >> >>>>>> versions. It
>> >> >>>>>> is
>> >> >>>>>> naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
>> >> >>>>>> equivalent
>> >> >>>>>> to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature
>> >> >>>>>> your
>> >> >>>>>> XP
>> >> >>>>>> version had would remain in Vista.
>> >> >>>>>> 2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to
>> >> >>>>>> Vista.
>> >> >>>>>> If
>> >> >>>>>> you
>> >> >>>>>> decide you do, then research even more carefully which version
>> >> >>>>>> has
>> >> >>>>>> the
>> >> >>>>>> features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car.
>> >> >>>>>> Why
>> >> >>>>>> wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings
>> >> >>>>>> jump
>> >> >>>>>> into
>> >> >>>>>> the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
>> >> >>>>>> partition
>> >> >>>>>> for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a
>> >> >>>>>> chance
>> >> >>>>>> to
>> >> >>>>>> work with it.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so
>> >> >>>>>> compelling
>> >> >>>>>> that you needed to update to Vista right away?
>> >> >>>>>> --
>> >> >>>>>> Russ Valentine
>> >> >>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> >>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>> news:95510014-F0FC-43D9-A732-F28E39B263AC@microsoft.com...
>> >> >>>>>> You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in
>> >> >>>>>> this
>> >> >>>>>> as
>> >> >>>>>> you
>> >> >>>>>> are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose
>> >> >>>>>> things
>> >> >>>>>> that
>> >> >>>>>> worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online
>> >> >>>>>> after
>> >> >>>>>> doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It
>> >> >>>>>> didn't
>> >> >>>>>> tell me that Vista would disable things already installed.
>> >> >>>>>> Does
>> >> >>>>>> this
>> >> >>>>>> make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
>> >> >>>>>> disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but
>> >> >>>>>> were
>> >> >>>>>> there.
>> >> >>>>>> Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have
>> >> >>>>>> previously.
>> >> >>>>>> And that really bothers me.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> --
>> >> >>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>> >> >>>>>> Faculty
>> >> >>>>>> Axia/Western International University
>> >> >>>>>> Associate Programs
>> >> >>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>> >> >>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>> >> >>>>>> 520-241-0126
>> >> >>>>>> Pacific Time
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> "Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" <mikehall@mvps.org>
>> >> >>>>>> wrote
>> >> >>>>>> in
>> >> >>>>>> message news:e1pQ1UuWHHA.896@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> >> >>>>>> You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
>> >> >>>>>> "Cyn" <cdagnalmyron@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>> news:A922DDF4-E7BF-46E6-8775-AD45E4F0D2E1@microsoft.com...
>> >> >>>>>> We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose
>> >> >>>>>> them,
>> >> >>>>>> when
>> >> >>>>>> we
>> >> >>>>>> upgrade.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> --
>> >> >>>>>> Cynthia Dagnal Myron
>> >> >>>>>> Faculty
>> >> >>>>>> Axia/Western International University
>> >> >>>>>> Associate Programs
>> >> >>>>>> omoyaaz@email.wintu.edu
>> >> >>>>>> omoya@email.phoenix.edu
>> >> >>>>>> 520-241-0126
>> >> >>>>>> Pacific Time
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >>>>>> message
>> >> >>>>>> news:ueEuUceWHHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> >> >>>>>> The features included with each version are not a secret. Users
>> >> >>>>>> need
>> >> >>>>>> to
>> >> >>>>>> read
>> >> >>>>>> that information very carefully before they decide on which
>> >> >>>>>> version to
>> >> >>>>>> choose. Caveat emptor.
>> >> >>>>>> --
>> >> >>>>>> Russ Valentine
>> >> >>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> >>>>>> "johnm" <johnm@msn.com> wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>> news:eJ0SbtdWHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> >> >>>>>>> "Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" <russval@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >>>>>>> message
>> >> >>>>>>> news:es6pZRUWHHA.4844@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >> >>>>>>>> Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to
>> >> >>>>>>>> contibribute
>> >> >>>>>>>> if
>> >> >>>>>>>> you
>> >> >>>>>>>> have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
>> >> >>>>>>>> --
>> >> >>>>>>>> Russ Valentine
>> >> >>>>>>>> [MVP-Outlook]
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> as haven't you..... smartass
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
>> >> >>>>>>> look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what
>> >> >>>>>>> they
>> >> >>>>>>> KNEW
>> >> >>>>>>> would
>> >> >>>>>>> be their top seller.
>> >> >>>>>>> just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually
>> >> >>>>>>> results in
>> >> >>>>>>> a
>> >> >>>>>>> "downgrade"
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> --
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Mike Hall
>> >> >>>>>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>> >> >>>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Mike Hall
>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>>
>>
>>
>>

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/