Windows Vista Forums

Jimmy-UAC

  1. #1


    Kerry Brown Guest

    Re: Jimmy-UAC

    I think that when Vista first comes out many early adopters will turn off
    UAC. I agree this is a shame but it is a reality. As new computers are
    purchased by people who are not early adopters but just average consumers
    buying a computer this may change. The vast majority of these people will
    not be able to figure out how to turn it off. They will phone their OEM
    supplier, software comany, or whomever they can find a phone number for for
    support when things don't work. Eventually this will cause companies to make
    their products work with UAC. It will probably take a few years. This has
    been the pattern in the past when new versions of Windows broke old
    applications and ways of doing things. It will most likely be the pattern
    for the future. There are still many "experts" who insist that Windows XP is
    crap, all anyone needs is Windows 98.

    --
    Kerry
    MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
    http://www.vistahelp.ca


    Jeff wrote:
    > Jimmy,
    > Back to the UAC issue.
    > As you have been seeing;and as I discussed with you long ago; UAC
    > is causing people grief;and their first tendency;in many cases;is to
    > turn it off.
    > Granted; a nice security feature; but when the initial reaction is
    > one of frustration;which then causes users to disable it; it then
    > becomes a moot point. UAC is;at that point; irrelevant.
    > Sure;what people should do;and what actually happens;can be two
    > completely different things.
    > As you are aware;from our previous discussions;UAC can be a pain.
    > I have heeded your advice; and learned to live with it. In
    > fact;ran it for every build;until 5728. One noticeable
    > difference;other than the obvious;the annoyance going away; is the
    > freeing up of system resources. Running with UAC on/off shows a
    > noticeable difference in my system. We shall see; I still think
    > UAC will be abandoned;by lots of folks. A good idea;which I fear will go
    > the way of XP;as in everyone running
    > as admin.
    >
    > Jeff




      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: Jimmy-UAC

    > Jimmy,
    > Back to the UAC issue.


    My favorite

    > As you have been seeing;and as I discussed with you long ago; UAC is
    > causing people grief;and their first tendency;in many cases;is to turn it
    > off.


    Agreed.

    > Granted; a nice security feature; but when the initial reaction is one of
    > frustration;which then causes users to disable it; it then becomes a moot
    > point. UAC is;at that point; irrelevant.


    I agree that the initial reaction is that of frustration; however, I don't
    agree that this causes all such frustrated users to turn it off. I think a
    majority of the people that post here regarding UAC are requesting
    information about it because they are frustrated by it and do not understand
    it... only a (strong, vocal) minority ask how to disable it without wanting
    to know anything about it.

    I feel this is a good sign ... it means people are seeing that it is more
    than just a nag screen, even if they don't really understand how it works.
    Hopefully, these people will find the information they need through whatever
    source to understand and effectively use UAC.

    > Sure;what people should do;and what actually happens;can be two
    > completely different things.


    Of course; the actions people take will vary through a wide spectrum. I
    believe that there will be small chunk of users who immediately turn it off,
    a small chunk that immediately understand it and live with, and a large
    chunk of users that only understand it to a certain point but don't turn it
    off.

    I think the challenge Microsoft faces is informing that large chunk of
    people what UAC is, how it benefits them, and how they should use it.

    > As you are aware;from our previous discussions;UAC can be a pain.
    > I have heeded your advice; and learned to live with it. In fact;ran it
    > for every build;until 5728. One noticeable difference;other than the
    > obvious;the annoyance going away; is the freeing up of system resources.
    > Running with UAC on/off shows a noticeable difference in my system.


    Fascinating. I wonder why that is.

    > We shall see; I still think UAC will be abandoned;by lots of folks.


    I think in relation to everyone using Vista, there will only be a small
    percentage overall of people who choose to turn it off, and I agree with
    Kerry that this percentage will decline and the effectiveness overall of UAC
    will increase dramatically as application vendors take advantage of it and
    the public becomes more informed about it.

    > A good idea;which I fear will go the way of XP;as in everyone running as
    > admin.


    I certainly hope not. It is a possibility; however, I think compared to
    other security initiatives that Microsoft has pushed that have failed to
    take hold, this one has a very good chance of success.


    --
    - JB

    Windows Vista Support Faq
    http://www.jimmah.com/vista/


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Jeff Guest

    Jimmy-UAC

    Jimmy,
    Back to the UAC issue.
    As you have been seeing;and as I discussed with you long ago; UAC is
    causing people grief;and their first tendency;in many cases;is to turn it
    off.
    Granted; a nice security feature; but when the initial reaction is one of
    frustration;which then causes users to disable it; it then becomes a moot
    point. UAC is;at that point; irrelevant.
    Sure;what people should do;and what actually happens;can be two
    completely different things.
    As you are aware;from our previous discussions;UAC can be a pain.
    I have heeded your advice; and learned to live with it. In fact;ran it
    for every build;until 5728. One noticeable difference;other than the
    obvious;the annoyance going away; is the freeing up of system resources.
    Running with UAC on/off shows a noticeable difference in my system.
    We shall see; I still think UAC will be abandoned;by lots of folks.
    A good idea;which I fear will go the way of XP;as in everyone running as
    admin.

    Jeff


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Robert Moir Guest

    Re: Jimmy-UAC

    Jeff wrote:
    > Jimmy,
    > Back to the UAC issue.
    > As you have been seeing;and as I discussed with you long ago; UAC
    > is causing people grief;and their first tendency;in many cases;is to
    > turn it off.
    > Granted; a nice security feature; but when the initial reaction is
    > one of frustration;which then causes users to disable it; it then
    > becomes a moot point. UAC is;at that point; irrelevant.


    Well it's quite poorly implemented in comparison to similar features in
    Linux or Mac OSX so you could be right. However, it's nice to see Microsoft
    trying to do something, and of course if you turn it off and your PC gets
    rooted, they'll be in a good position to shrug and say "told you so".


    --
    Robert Moir

    www.robertmoir.com



      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: Jimmy-UAC

    <snip>
    > Well it's quite poorly implemented in comparison to similar features in
    > Linux or Mac OSX


    I'm going to have to disagree here ... I think the implementation is
    excellent. The problem is that of application compatability, something that
    OSX and Linux don't have to worry about.


    --
    - JB

    Windows Vista Support Faq
    http://www.jimmah.com/vista/


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    Jeff Guest

    Re: Jimmy-UAC

    Well,
    I give ya one thing Jimmy;you're persistent. Gotta like your effort. :-)
    Jeff

    "Jimmy Brush" <JimmyBrush@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:9C37B5F0-B606-429D-9913-CB522E9790AF@microsoft.com...
    > <snip>
    >> Well it's quite poorly implemented in comparison to similar features in
    >> Linux or Mac OSX

    >
    > I'm going to have to disagree here ... I think the implementation is
    > excellent. The problem is that of application compatability, something
    > that OSX and Linux don't have to worry about.
    >
    >
    > --
    > - JB
    >
    > Windows Vista Support Faq
    > http://www.jimmah.com/vista/



      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: Jimmy-UAC

    I calls 'em as I sees 'em.


    --
    - JB

    Windows Vista Support Faq
    http://www.jimmah.com/vista/

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: Jimmy-UAC

    And you're the one who started this discussion back up, too


    --
    - JB

    Windows Vista Support Faq
    http://www.jimmah.com/vista/

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    Jeff Guest

    Re: Jimmy-UAC

    Umm,
    Yup,
    I DID, didn't I? LOL
    Jeff :-)
    "Jimmy Brush" <JimmyBrush@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:AF112274-441F-4898-A07B-0663A0E6CE92@microsoft.com...
    > And you're the one who started this discussion back up, too
    >
    >
    > --
    > - JB
    >
    > Windows Vista Support Faq
    > http://www.jimmah.com/vista/



      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    Robert Moir Guest

    Re: Jimmy-UAC

    Jimmy Brush wrote:
    > <snip>
    >> Well it's quite poorly implemented in comparison to similar features
    >> in Linux or Mac OSX

    >
    > I'm going to have to disagree here ... I think the implementation is
    > excellent.


    Maybe, maybe not. We'll have to agree to disagree, if you can agree to that
    ;-)

    > The problem is that of application compatability,
    > something that OSX and Linux don't have to worry about.


    Hmmm, I'm fairly sure that Mac and Linux users expect their apps to work, in
    fact I'm a Mac user some of the time and I'm certain I expect my Mac apps to
    run on my Mac laptop. With technologies like Rosetta and the BSD
    environment, I'd actually say apple have done a lot of work in that area
    actually.

    What I'm talking about is UAC as a direct comparison to how OS X and a
    modern Linux such as Ubuntu implement the 'sudo' command in the GUI. Much
    less intrusive than in Vista in my opinion, especially in OS X. Have you
    seen how that does it?
    --
    Robert Moir

    www.robertmoir.com



      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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