Windows Vista Forums

Bypassing User Account Control dialog window

  1. #1


    Barney Katz Guest

    Bypassing User Account Control dialog window

    User Account Control asks for permission each time I load an "unidentified
    program", no matter how many times I load it. Is there a way to bypass this
    message so the program loads normally? In other words, can Vista be
    instructed to trust certain programs so it doesn't need to ask permission to
    load them?

    Thank you.

    Barney


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Rock Guest

    Re: Bypassing User Account Control dialog window

    "Barney Katz" <mechanic123NOSPAM@mindspring.com> wrote
    > User Account Control asks for permission each time I load an "unidentified
    > program", no matter how many times I load it. Is there a way to bypass
    > this message so the program loads normally? In other words, can Vista be
    > instructed to trust certain programs so it doesn't need to ask permission
    > to load them?


    No, it can be set selectively, it's all or none. Ask yourself why does that
    program need admin credentials, is there another program that can do the
    same thing that doesn't, is there an update to it that removes this need.

    --
    Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Brian Meyers Guest

    Re: Bypassing User Account Control dialog window


    > No, it can be set selectively, it's all or none. Ask yourself why does that
    > program need admin credentials, is there another program that can do the
    > same thing that doesn't, is there an update to it that removes this need.
    >
    > --
    > Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]
    >
    >

    This is the most annoying thing I have found while using Vista. What go does
    it do? All it does is make it more time consuming to load programs. Shouldn't
    it be able to comprehend that if I am installing a program that I really want
    to install it? This is one feature that should be x-ed out.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM Guest

    Re: Bypassing User Account Control dialog window

    "Brian Meyers" <Brian Meyers@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:60EF9DC2-50CD-4928-A912-43E53E6BEF42@microsoft.com...
    >
    >> No, it can be set selectively, it's all or none. Ask yourself why does
    >> that
    >> program need admin credentials, is there another program that can do the
    >> same thing that doesn't, is there an update to it that removes this need.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]
    >>
    >>

    > This is the most annoying thing I have found while using Vista. What go
    > does
    > it do? All it does is make it more time consuming to load programs.
    > Shouldn't
    > it be able to comprehend that if I am installing a program that I really
    > want
    > to install it? This is one feature that should be x-ed out.


    No, it can't tell whether it's you or some malware from the net. It really
    doesn't take long to get used to. I'm getting to like it.

    --
    Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
    http://www.fjsmjs.com
    Answer in newsgroup. Don't expect an answer to email.



      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Join Date : Apr 2007
    Posts : 5
    Local Time: 09:27 AM


     
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock View Post
    "Barney Katz" <mechanic123NOSPAM@mindspring.com> wrote


    No, it can be set selectively, it's all or none. Ask yourself why does that
    program need admin credentials, is there another program that can do the
    same thing that doesn't, is there an update to it that removes this need.

    --
    Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

    MS have completely missed the target with UAC and its so easy to fix.

    Every time UAC prevents a program from running it should offer the option of adding the program to a
    Trusted list. You would need to enter your user id and password to get the program added.

    for example programs that the user has installed that run at start-up, causing UAC to pop up each and
    every time the pc is booted. there are literally hundreds of Trusted programs that do this because they
    aren't digitally signed and never will be

    Otherwise the average user is going get so brainwashed into just allowing every UAC pop-up that crops
    up, which will completely defeat the purpose of UAC


    I think MS have watched Tron to many times and thought having a MCP is great idea.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    Dave Wood [MS] Guest

    Re: Bypassing User Account Control dialog window

    No, the problem with this is that if certain administrative programs can be
    launched without prompting, then a piece of malware on the system which
    doesn't have admin rights could also launch these programs. And that way it
    could effectively gain the ability to perform admin-only operations. To
    correctly enforce separation of privileges requires the elevation prompting
    every time.

    I agree with Frank in that it's worth persevering with, and I personally
    like the fact that I get to authorize when any program is going to run that
    might change global settings on my computer. Ultimately the goal is to put
    the user in control and not the malware - even if we have a way to go before
    we completely get there.

    Dave Wood

    >
    > MS have completely missed the target with UAC and its so easy to fix.
    >
    > Every time UAC prevents a program from running it should offer the
    > option of adding the program to a
    > Trusted list. You would need to enter your user id and password to get
    > the program added.
    >
    > for example programs that the user has installed that run at start-up,
    > causing UAC to pop up each and
    > every time the pc is booted. there are literally hundreds of Trusted
    > programs that do this because they
    > aren't digitally signed and never will be
    >
    > Otherwise the average user is going get so brainwashed into just
    > allowing every UAC pop-up that crops
    > up, which will completely defeat the purpose of UAC
    >
    > I think MS have watched Tron to many times and thought having a MCP is
    > great idea.
    >
    >
    > --
    > cerveau



      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    Rock Guest

    Re: Bypassing User Account Control dialog window

    "Brian Meyers" <Brian Meyers@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
    >> No, it can be set selectively, it's all or none. Ask yourself why does
    >> that
    >> program need admin credentials, is there another program that can do the
    >> same thing that doesn't, is there an update to it that removes this need.


    > This is the most annoying thing I have found while using Vista. What go
    > does
    > it do? All it does is make it more time consuming to load programs.
    > Shouldn't
    > it be able to comprehend that if I am installing a program that I really
    > want
    > to install it? This is one feature that should be x-ed out.


    I'm sorry, but I don't see it that way. I see it as giving me control.
    Each time a program runs wants admin privileges I decide if I want it to
    run. I don't want some malware hooking into a pre-approved program and
    doing what it wants.

    Many of these programs don't really need admin privileges or could be coded
    to not use it. For example several XP based programs have update utilities
    that want to install themselves as a startup program through the Run key in
    the registry, and asks for admin privileges. All these things do is hop
    online to check if there is an update. This is absolutely silly. Firstly
    there is no reason to check at startup up every time the computer is booted.
    Second there is no reason it needs admin privileges. If an update is found
    then it could possibly need admin privileges for the installation but that's
    a different issue. Apps properly coded for Vista will not have this.

    So go back to the initial questions. Why does this app have to run at
    startup, why does it need admin privileges, is there an update for it or a
    different, properly coded app that doesn't need admin privileges.

    I want control over what runs and when. I don't want to give permission in
    advance and then _assume_ every time it runs everything is just fine. Vista
    doesn't care what the app does, it only cares to know your intent each time.
    And that intent can't effectively be given in advance.

    I have none of these apps asking for admin permissions running at startup.
    The only thing that does this is msconfig if I make a change using it, and
    then that can be handled at the first startup after the changes are made.
    So it's not much of an imposition here.

    --
    Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Join Date : Apr 2007
    Posts : 5
    Local Time: 09:27 AM


     
    Quote Originally Posted by Rock View Post
    "Brian Meyers" <Brian Meyers@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
    >> No, it can be set selectively, it's all or none. Ask yourself why does
    >> that
    >> program need admin credentials, is there another program that can do the
    >> same thing that doesn't, is there an update to it that removes this need.


    > This is the most annoying thing I have found while using Vista. What go
    > does
    > it do? All it does is make it more time consuming to load programs.
    > Shouldn't
    > it be able to comprehend that if I am installing a program that I really
    > want
    > to install it? This is one feature that should be x-ed out.


    I'm sorry, but I don't see it that way. I see it as giving me control.
    Each time a program runs wants admin privileges I decide if I want it to
    run. I don't want some malware hooking into a pre-approved program and
    doing what it wants.

    Many of these programs don't really need admin privileges or could be coded
    to not use it. For example several XP based programs have update utilities
    that want to install themselves as a startup program through the Run key in
    the registry, and asks for admin privileges. All these things do is hop
    online to check if there is an update. This is absolutely silly. Firstly
    there is no reason to check at startup up every time the computer is booted.
    Second there is no reason it needs admin privileges. If an update is found
    then it could possibly need admin privileges for the installation but that's
    a different issue. Apps properly coded for Vista will not have this.

    So go back to the initial questions. Why does this app have to run at
    startup, why does it need admin privileges, is there an update for it or a
    different, properly coded app that doesn't need admin privileges.

    I want control over what runs and when. I don't want to give permission in
    advance and then _assume_ every time it runs everything is just fine. Vista
    doesn't care what the app does, it only cares to know your intent each time.
    And that intent can't effectively be given in advance.

    I have none of these apps asking for admin permissions running at startup.
    The only thing that does this is msconfig if I make a change using it, and
    then that can be handled at the first startup after the changes are made.
    So it's not much of an imposition here.

    --
    Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

    I understand your point of view, but what if a piece of malware has already hooked into a program?
    having that program pre-approved or manually clicking the UAC pop-up to allow it to run wont make any
    difference to the malware, ie either way the user is going to click the UAC pop up because they want to
    run that program.

    The UAC is just adding another step into the process of Running a program, the program will still be run
    and if there is Malware present it will run also. The only difference is that UAC makes the user go through
    an extra step each time, which when happens on every bootup, when the user is clicking 2 or 3 UACS to
    just to get required programs running will make for an unpleasant vista experience forcing the user to
    switch off UAC altogether.

    Admittedly though all that MS needs to do is on this problem is to wait it out, because eventually all those
    old pre-vista programs that are activating UAC will be updated or replaced with new ones which wont,
    eliminating the problem all together.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    Brent Wherry Guest

    RE: Bypassing User Account Control dialog window

    I agree. What I would really like is to be able to authorize programs once
    and have UAC acknowledge my consent.

    The current design is very user unfriendly (arrogant even?)

    I don't like doing it but I'm having to switch UAC off. Microsoft might
    consider putting useability in front of their tedious and not very effective
    security policies.

    "Barney Katz" wrote:

    > User Account Control asks for permission each time I load an "unidentified
    > program", no matter how many times I load it. Is there a way to bypass this
    > message so the program loads normally? In other words, can Vista be
    > instructed to trust certain programs so it doesn't need to ask permission to
    > load them?
    >
    > Thank you.
    >
    > Barney
    >


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    Jupiter Jones [MVP] Guest

    Re: Bypassing User Account Control dialog window

    "...but what if a piece of malware..."
    Have you started the program or did the program start itself?
    If the first, you know you want it.
    If the second, you have something to be suspicious about.
    "...either way the user is going to click..."
    I don't and nobody should.
    The few times I get UAC messages, I look to see what is causing it.
    So far it has already been legitimate.


    "...because eventually all those old pre-vista programs..."
    Are you sure?
    And how much time will that take?
    Some programs still have not made the necessary changes to properly
    run in Windows XP, and it has been over 5 years.
    Intuit makes some that are a constant thorn in the side of security
    conscious, particularly those in financial businesses.
    Waiting it out is not a practical option if safe computing is an
    issue.

    "The UAC is just adding another step"
    I call it "Layered security"
    Malware is very sophisticated and many layers are necessary for
    maximum security.

    If simplicity is paramount, I can only see two solutions:
    1. Power off and pack up the computer and never power on.
    2. Almost as good, Clean Install and never install anything from any
    source.
    Use no CDs, DVDs, floppies, thumb drives etc as those are a source of
    malware.

    UAC was never intended to protect against everything but it goes a
    step into helping the user identify what is happening and thus offer
    more control.
    People need to learn safe computing.

    --
    Jupiter Jones [MVP]
    http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
    http://www.dts-l.org


    "cerveau" <cerveau.2p8hpf@no-mx.forums.net> wrote in message
    news:cerveau.2p8hpf@no-mx.forums.net...
    > I understand your point of view, but what if a piece of malware has
    > already hooked into a program?
    > having that program pre-approved or manually clicking the UAC pop-up
    > to
    > allow it to run wont make any
    > difference to the malware, ie either way the user is going to click
    > the
    > UAC pop up because they want to
    > run that program.
    >
    > The UAC is just adding another step into the process of Running a
    > program, the program will still be run
    > and if there is Malware present it will run also. The only
    > difference
    > is that UAC makes the user go through
    > an extra step each time, which when happens on every bootup, when
    > the
    > user is clicking 2 or 3 UACS to
    > just get required programs running will make for an unpleasant vista
    > experience forcing the user to switch
    > off UAC altogether.
    >
    > Admittedly though all that MS needs to do is on this problem is to
    > wait
    > it out, because eventually all those
    > old pre-vista programs that are activating UAC will be updated or
    > replaced with news ones which wont,
    > eliminating the problem all together.
    >
    >
    > --
    > cerveau



      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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