Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64


  1.    19 Jul 2017 #1
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    Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64


    Hello,

    I'm running Windows Vista x64 on an older PC with a built-in Video adapter.

    I've upgraded to a higher resolution monitor that has digital HDMI and DVI-D inputs and have been thinking of upgrading the PC's video adapter

    The current video adapter I think may be a bit too slow for a higher resolution digital monitor. May work ok but think perhaps a newer video card with more memory and digital output may help with video.

    Current video adapter: Intel GMA 3000 (Intel Q945/Q963 Express Chipset)
    Total Graphic Memory 256 MB
    System Video Memory 128 MB
    Shared System Memory 128 MB

    I've come across several PCI-E video cards with 500 MB to 1GB memory however some require that the PC have a min. 350 watt power supply. My small desktop PC uses a 250 watt power supply and only has two expansion slots.

    Slot 1: PCI Express x1
    Slot 2: 32-bit PCI 2.3 (5v)

    Some of the cards are PCI-E x2, PCI 2.0 PCI, Express 2.0 x16 etc. However I read somewhere PCI 2.0 is suppose to be backward compatible to earlier versions of PCI-E?

    I'm open to suggestions for a video adapter.

    Here are a couple of used ones I've been looking at that are gaming cards, potentially could overheat and cause problems? Potential problems with drivers under Vista, etc.

    NVIDIA QUADRO 400 512MB PCI-E Video Graphics Card
    PNY NVIDIA GeForce GT 520 (VCGGT5201XPB) 1GB GDDR3

    I'm not really up on video cards, the above are used and designed mainly for gaming and I don't know their power requirements, as some gaming cards require a minimum 350 watt power supply.
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  2.    19 Jul 2017 #2
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    Re: Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64


    I suggest that you check the PCI express slot. Is it x1 or x16? If it is x1 you might has well not even fool with a new card because your computer won't benefit much from it. Is the slot short or long? A PCI-e card technically will work in a x1 slot but those slots don't have enough bandwidth to benefit from a card and it won't be going to the correct side of the chipset. In short if you computer only has a pci-e x1 then it isn't designed for an upgrade. In addition new cards aren't likely going to even have 7 drivers much less drivers for Vista. If you do find a card with 7 drivers you should be able to get them to work on Vista but not drivers for either 8 or 10.

    PCI 2.0 PCI, Express 2.0 x16 etc. However I read somewhere PCI 2.0 is suppose to be backward compatible to earlier versions of PCI-E
    PCI and PCI express are completely different and are not compatible.
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  3.    20 Jul 2017 #3
    Join Date : Feb 2016
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      Thread Starter

    Re: Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64


    Quote Originally Posted by townsbg View Post
    I suggest that you check the PCI express slot. Is it x1 or x16? If it is x1 you might has well not even fool with a new card because your computer won't benefit much from it. Is the slot short or long? A PCI-e card technically will work in a x1 slot but those slots don't have enough bandwidth to benefit from a card and it won't be going to the correct side of the chipset. In short if you computer only has a pci-e x1 then it isn't designed for an upgrade. In addition new cards aren't likely going to even have 7 drivers much less drivers for Vista. If you do find a card with 7 drivers you should be able to get them to work on Vista but not drivers for either 8 or 10.



    PCI and PCI express are completely different and are not compatible.
    Ok, thanks for the info.

    FYI, there are Vista x64 drivers for the cards I'm currently looking at. i.e. PNY NVIDIA and others, many of the video cards such as the GeForce series have drivers for Vista 32 and 64 bit. I believe this is because of additional support for gamers which may not have upgraded to later versions Windows.

    ZOTAC has a GeForce Graphic driver 365.19 for Vista 64bits. Also driver support from Windows XP to Windows 10.

    Same with the PNY NVIDIA, has GeForce series drivers from Windows XP to Windows 10.

    Pics of pci-e x1 slot: PCI-E SLOT — Postimage.org

    Pic of my PCI-E x1 slot

    Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64-img_0058-jpg

    I did find a PCI-E x1 video adapter, actually found two of them, most new Video adapters with 1GB memory use PCI-E x8 or x16. I think you may right about the bandwidth. However I'm sort of puzzled about two different eBay sellers advertising a Zotac GeForce GT 710 DirectX 12 ZT-71304-20L 1GB 64-Bit DDR3. Advertised as a "PCI Express x1" adapter? Perhaps both descriptions are wrong? I emailed both sellers asking them about the PCI Express x1 in their descriptions.

    One shows a pic of the video adapter and the pic displays the video adapter with a pci-e x1 interface.

    SPECIFICATIONS
    NVIDIA GeForce GT 710 GPU
    192 CUDA cores
    1GB DDR3 memory
    64-bit memory bus
    Engine clock: 954 MHz
    Memory clock: 1600 MHz
    PCI Express x 1

    Unable to add links for the PCI-e x1 video adapters for sale. Their ebay auction title is

    Zotac GeForce GT 710 DirectX 12 ZT-71304-20L 1GB 64-Bit DDR3 PCI Express x1 HDCP

    Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64-s-l1600-jpg
    Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64-s-l1600-jpg
    Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64-s-l1600-jpg

    Anyway I also have a regular PCI slot so I'm thinking of going with a standard (non-pci-e) PCI card with 512MB or 1GB if I can find one.

    Yes the PC is old, almost not worth upgrading, but I usually run two PCs having one as spare backup.

    I'm going to eventually purchase a later model PC with a more recent cpu and mb architecture, running Windows 8 or 10. Probably one with a x64 OS and more memory. But for now would like to upgrade the video on this older one if possible.

    The video of this older PC sort of sucks with only 128MB hardware memory the built-in adapter uses another 128MB of system memory for a total of 256MB video memory.

    I just upgraded the monitor to one with a higher native resolution of 1920 x 1080. It has digital hdmi and dvi which my old monitor only has analog VGA (sub-15) which natively is 1366 x 768. If your PC and monitor are set to a higher resolution such as e.g. 1080i or 1080p the monitor needs to upconvert the datastream to a higher resolution. Most PC's I've found it usually works out better to configure the PC (video card and drivers) to the native resolution of the monitor.

    I know a 1920 x 1080 monitor may not benefit much using an upgraded faster video adapter with more memory but perhaps when connected digitally (hdmi or dvi) there will be some improvements.

    1366 x 768 produces a fairly good image and video, however I found a good deal on a brand new 32" 1920 x 1080 Nec multisync that I couldn't pass up.
    Last edited by albertz; 20 Jul 2017 at 01:35.
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  4.    20 Jul 2017 #4
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    Re: Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64


    I'll admit I didn't know that there are video cards that use x1 slots since no cards require more resources than a video card however I wouldn't expect much from it since the bandwith for a x1 slot isn't nearly what you get from a x16 slot. PCI Express - Wikipedia That has a comparative table. A converter can be used but that won't change the throughput of the slot. Also in your typical configuration the pci cards and lower throughput pci-e cards connect to the slower end of the chipset, called the south bridge, whereas the x16 connects to the faster end called the north bridge. Northbridge (computing) - Wikipedia In your case the northbridge will be connected to your integrated graphics. A PCI card would be even worse than a pci-e x1. I'm not convinced that you would be any better off with that card than you would be using the integrated graphics but you can try it. You certainly can't expect anywhere near the performance that you would get from a x16 slot. Don't expect to be able to do heavy gaming with that card.
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  5.    21 Jul 2017 #5
    Join Date : Feb 2016
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      Thread Starter

    Re: Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64


    Quote Originally Posted by townsbg View Post
    I'll admit I didn't know that there are video cards that use x1 slots since no cards require more resources than a video card however I wouldn't expect much from it since the bandwith for a x1 slot isn't nearly what you get from a x16 slot. PCI Express - Wikipedia That has a comparative table. A converter can be used but that won't change the throughput of the slot. Also in your typical configuration the pci cards and lower throughput pci-e cards connect to the slower end of the chipset, called the south bridge, whereas the x16 connects to the faster end called the north bridge. Northbridge (computing) - Wikipedia In your case the northbridge will be connected to your integrated graphics. A PCI card would be even worse than a pci-e x1. I'm not convinced that you would be any better off with that card than you would be using the integrated graphics but you can try it. You certainly can't expect anywhere near the performance that you would get from a x16 slot. Don't expect to be able to do heavy gaming with that card.
    Yeah I think your right and remember reading about south and north bridge.

    I'll probably just let it go for now and stay with the analog VGA (SUB-15) connection. I don't do any gaming, mostly watch movies and videos.

    The Nec manual(s) recommends to set their monitors and the PC to the nec monitor's native resolution

    So the new 1920 x 1080 monitor when connected to a PC would be set to 1920 x 1080, however from what I've read elsewhere VGA (Sub-15) is physically limited to 1366 x 768 so there must be some sort of conversion going on when setting an analog VGA (Sub-15) connection to 1920 x 1080. Probably isn't detectable to the human eye, etc.

    There really are only few differences when comparing capabilities of analog and digital connections.

    VGA*2 15pin Mini D-sub Analog RGB 0.7 Vp-p/75 ohm VGA60, SVGA60, XGA60, WXGA60, SXGA60, UXGA60*1, 1920X1080 (60Hz) Sync Separate: TTL level (Pos./Neg.) Composite sync on Green Video: 0.3 Vp-p Neg.

    HDMI Connector Digital YUV Digital RGB VGA60, SVGA60, XGA60, WXGA60, SXGA60, UXGA60*1, 1920x1080 (60 Hz), 1080p, 1080i, 720p@50Hz/60Hz, 576p@50Hz, 480p@60Hz, 576i@50Hz, 480i@60Hz

    DisplayPort Connector Digital RGB DisplayPort Complies with Standard V1.1a, applicable to HDCP V1.3
    VGA60, SVGA60, XGA60, WXGA60, SXGA60, UXGA60*1, 1920x1080 (60 Hz), 1080p, 1080i,
    720p@50Hz/60Hz, 576p@50Hz, 480p@60Hz

    However I keep coming across articles online that state a VGA (SUB-15) analog doesn't produce as good of graphics as digital hdmi, (display port and dvi). I think this in part is because VGA is analog and limited physically to a resolution of 1366 x 768. I suppose if you have your PC and Monitor set to a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 when using the VGA (sub-15) port there must be some sort of analog to digital conversion going on.

    Anyway an upgraded video adapter using a hdmi digital connection may have some graphic improvements with a 1920 x 1080 monitor. When compared to my older adapter with only VGA analog output. I would need to purchase and install a video card with digital hdmi ( display port, or dvi) output to determine any differences.

    A new video adapter may or may not improve the video but would be capable of a digital connection vs VGA analog, from what I've read online some monitor owners have notice some improvement when switching from an analog to digital connection.

    However as you stated the are other vulnerabilities such as the physical connection of the video adapter to the motherboard. As you stated PCI and PCI-e x1 have their limitations so any improvements using a digital hdmi connection may be cancelled out because of certain limitations of pci or pci-e x1 connections to the motherboard.

    So trying to upgrade the video hardware may be a complete waste of time with this older PC running Vista x64.

    Perhaps If i can find an inexpensive upgraded adapter somewhere that has hdmi out. I'll experiment to determine any differences, improvements, etc.
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  6.    21 Jul 2017 #6
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    Re: Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64


    I haven't read anything about a resolution restriction with VGA but yes a display port has much better graphics than VGA. Still though you have to consider the source and I'm not sure either way if you would be better off using display with that card over VGA using your integrated graphics. Really for the kind of use you are talking about you probably won't notice much difference with display over VGA but you would with high def video or gaming. Don't even bother with an adapter because the source is still analog. Really using an adapter just ensures that you can use a display port on a VGA connection and that's all. It won't make your connection digital.

    You have to decide if it is worth the cost of the card when you know that it is using an inferior connection. Really an x1 port is best for usb cards, networking cards, or audio cards and not video. No other cards require more resources on a computer than a graphics card. As for system requirements it does list a 300 watt psu but I kind of doubt that card would demand that much power. It isn't a very powerful card and that is something to keep in mind. It's a real quandary. If I where you i would either save up for a more modern computer or if that is just a backup just live with the limitations. There is only so much you can do with those outdated machines.
    Last edited by townsbg; 22 Jul 2017 at 22:37.
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  7.    22 Jul 2017 #7
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      Thread Starter

    Re: Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64


    I emailed the sellers about their PCI-e x1 cards and never heard back from them.

    The main difference is VGA is analog and first came onto the market back in 1987. Which make the technology and it's standards approx. 30 years old.

    HDMI and DVI is digital. I have the 1920 x 1080 monitor connected and set to the native resolution of 1920 x 1080. There's a noticeable improvement over my older 1366 x 768 monitor. Both are good monitors, however the older monitor, if the video display is configured above 1366 x 769, there is some loss of video quality as images need to be compressed.

    The newer monitor has output options, hdmi, dvi-i, display port, sub-15 (vga), the older monitor has no hdmi or display port, but includes component RGB [R, G, B, H, V], DVD / HD In, S-Video and composite input/outputs to connect to older equipment without hdmi. To get past the lack older video interfaces, hdmi converter cables can be used. The newer one also has an ATSC digital tuner where the old one had no turner. is LED backlit (vs ccfl), hdmi port, Ethernet, etc. has many features not found with the older 1366 x 768. The new one accepts slide in modules such as an ATSC tuner so you can change certain features and capabilities by using available slide in modules. Both are commercial grade monitors.

    25601440 and 38402160 are the newer video resolution standards however I'm not certain what benefits the newer standards actually have when using a 32 inch and smaller monitors, unless perhaps your a gamer, into video editing, higher res videos, etc.




    Last edited by albertz; 24 Jul 2017 at 09:43.
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Replacing built-in Video adapter under Vista x64

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