Strange Behavior 2


  1.    18 Feb 2009 #1
    Tom Brown Guest

    Strange Behavior 2


    Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that were
    messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
    stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
    delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
    again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
    mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also let
    them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.

    The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I have
    discussed them with the recipients.

    This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust WLM. I
    consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.

    I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta product.
    I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).

    Any help appreciated.

    Tom


      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2.    18 Feb 2009 #2
    Tom Brown Guest

    Re: Strange Behavior 2


    One more thing related to the previous post.

    Although I now have 6 messages apparently stuck in my Outbox, I see the (3)
    beside the Outbox folder name. That implies that there are three messages
    in there that are Unread (or unSent). But, when I click on the folder, none
    of them are highlighted.

    The other strange thing is that of the 6 messages stuck in the Outbox, if I
    right-click on all of them, on 3 messages, I see that I am able to 'Mark as
    Unread' and on 3 I have the option to 'Mark as Read.' None of them look
    Unread in the Reading Pane. If I choose to Mark as Read, that counter (3)
    beside the Outbox folder decrements when I "read" each message.

    Tom





    "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

    > Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
    > were
    > messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
    > stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    > Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
    > delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    > the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
    > again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
    > mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also let
    > them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
    >
    > The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    > because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    > originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
    > have
    > discussed them with the recipients.
    >
    > This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust WLM.
    > I
    > consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
    >
    > I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
    > product.
    > I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
    >
    > Any help appreciated.
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >
    >
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3.    18 Feb 2009 #3
    Tom Brown Guest

    Re: Strange Behavior 2


    Third addendum:

    FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title of
    "Ok, this is really weird."

    Tom


    "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

    > Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
    > were
    > messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
    > stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    > Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
    > delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    > the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
    > again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
    > mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also let
    > them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
    >
    > The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    > because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    > originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
    > have
    > discussed them with the recipients.
    >
    > This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust WLM.
    > I
    > consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
    >
    > I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
    > product.
    > I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
    >
    > Any help appreciated.
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >
    >
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4.    18 Feb 2009 #4
    D. Spencer Hines Guest

    Re: Strange Behavior 2


    You need to think of better, more intelligent, grown-up and descriptive
    SUBJECT LINES.
    --
    DSH
    Lux et Veritas et Libertas
    Vires et Honor

    "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:%23n$$cnfkJHA.4448@xxxxxx

    > Third addendum:
    >
    > FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title of
    > "Ok, this is really weird."
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >
    > "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    > news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

    >> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
    >> were
    >> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
    >> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    >> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
    >> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    >> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
    >> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
    >> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
    >> let
    >> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
    >>
    >> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    >> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    >> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
    >> have
    >> discussed them with the recipients.
    >>
    >> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
    >> WLM. I
    >> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
    >>
    >> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
    >> product.
    >> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
    >>
    >> Any help appreciated.
    >>
    >> Tom

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5.    18 Feb 2009 #5
    Michael Santovec Guest

    Re: Strange Behavior 2


    I've seen some similar things with messages moved between folders either
    manually or via message rules for messages downloaded via POP3 account.

    The one pattern I've noticed is that when it happens (and it doesn't
    happen often), it is for messages that were moved just before closing
    WLM. Might those have been messages that you sent and then quickly
    closed WLM?

    I'm suspecting that sometimes the message store index isn't getting
    updated to disk during shutdown.

    --

    Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm



    "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:#n$$cnfkJHA.4448@xxxxxx

    > Third addendum:
    >
    > FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title
    > of "Ok, this is really weird."
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >
    > "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    > news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

    >> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items
    >> that were
    >> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are
    >> now
    >> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    >> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able
    >> to
    >> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    >> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get
    >> sent
    >> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with
    >> the
    >> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will
    >> also let
    >> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in
    >> WLM.
    >>
    >> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    >> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    >> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because
    >> I have
    >> discussed them with the recipients.
    >>
    >> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
    >> WLM. I
    >> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream
    >> program.
    >>
    >> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
    >> product.
    >> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
    >>
    >> Any help appreciated.
    >>
    >> Tom
    >>
    >>
    >>
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6.    18 Feb 2009 #6
    ...winston Guest

    Re: Strange Behavior 2


    It appears WLM goes into (my term) a damage control mode to protect its message store and to avoid losing a message that has not
    been processed or indexed
    The most prominent reason it occurs that I have seen is:
    - a user closure of WLM prior to any sync being completed, Sync can be manual or automatic(send all messages immediately, check
    every x sec)


    These types of 'recovered' messages may show up as present in the Outbox without any content or the Sent Folder(with content and
    the To field containing the user email address.ie. as if sent to one self).

    The presence of, does not dictate lack of delivery of the message.

    It does dictate that something abnormal to routine operation occurred.


    --
    ...winston
    ms-mvp mail

    "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

    > Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that were
    > messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
    > stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    > Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
    > delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    > the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
    > again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
    > mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also let
    > them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
    >
    > The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    > because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    > originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I have
    > discussed them with the recipients.
    >
    > This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust WLM. I
    > consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
    >
    > I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta product.
    > I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
    >
    > Any help appreciated.
    >
    > Tom
    >
    >
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7.    19 Feb 2009 #7
    R. C. White Guest

    Re: Strange Behavior 2


    Hi, Winston - and Michael.

    Yes, WLM definitely needs better Exit procedures!

    Even when it SEEMS that all WLM's housekeeping chores have been completed in
    the background, closing the application can leave bits of debris scattered
    around that get noticed the next time WLM is started. Sometimes there is a
    "Recovered items" folder. Sometimes the Unread count is off. Sometimes we
    read messages again that we KNOW we read yesterday. And sometimes, Contacts
    that we KNOW we added yesterday are not there today. :>(

    The most noticeable sign of such activity is when I click the Red X
    (actually a white X in a red box, but you know what I mean) while a Sync
    operation is continuing. The main WLM window closes, but the "progress"
    window - for want of a better name, since its title is simply "Windows Live
    Mail" - is still open and messages are still being downloaded and sorted
    into place in WLM's database. Sometimes an unfinished Draft is still open
    after WLM's window is closed. All the sub-windows do close, eventually, but
    the unfinished tasks can leave garbage that shows up in the next WLM
    session.

    It hardly seems worth the trouble to report all these to the WLM Team, since
    I'm sure they are well aware of them. :>(

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX
    rc@xxxxxx
    Microsoft Windows MVP
    Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 7000

    "...winston" <winstonmvp@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:OeUofthkJHA.2516@xxxxxx

    > It appears WLM goes into (my term) a damage control mode to protect its
    > message store and to avoid losing a message that has not been processed or
    > indexed
    > The most prominent reason it occurs that I have seen is:
    > - a user closure of WLM prior to any sync being completed, Sync can be
    > manual or automatic(send all messages immediately, check every x sec)
    >
    >
    > These types of 'recovered' messages may show up as present in the Outbox
    > without any content or the Sent Folder(with content and the To field
    > containing the user email address.ie. as if sent to one self).
    >
    > The presence of, does not dictate lack of delivery of the message.
    >
    > It does dictate that something abnormal to routine operation occurred.
    >
    >
    > --
    > ...winston
    > ms-mvp mail
    >
    > "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    > news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

    >> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
    >> were
    >> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
    >> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    >> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
    >> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    >> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
    >> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
    >> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
    >> let
    >> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
    >>
    >> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    >> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    >> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
    >> have
    >> discussed them with the recipients.
    >>
    >> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
    >> WLM. I
    >> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
    >>
    >> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
    >> product.
    >> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
    >>
    >> Any help appreciated.
    >>
    >> Tom
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8.    19 Feb 2009 #8
    Tom Brown Guest

    Re: Strange Behavior 2


    Thanks for the ideas Winston. I think you are probably correct that the
    trouble is in this area.

    I do sometimes close WLM with messages still in the Outbox and it has to ask
    me if I want to send the unsent messages. Depending on what the situation
    is, I sometimes tell it to send and other times I tell it not to send. There
    are times I do not want to send messages immediately.

    I don't have them go automatically because I sometimes need to retrieve a
    message or delay it. But, as I said, it didn't seem to bother OE. Maybe
    the designers should make this area a little more robust exit procedure in
    WLM.

    Anyway, I'll try to keep an eye on that situation and notice if it's those
    messages that are getting corrupted.

    Thanks again,

    Tom


    "...winston" <winstonmvp@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:OeUofthkJHA.2516@xxxxxx

    > It appears WLM goes into (my term) a damage control mode to protect its
    > message store and to avoid losing a message that has not been processed or
    > indexed
    > The most prominent reason it occurs that I have seen is:
    > - a user closure of WLM prior to any sync being completed, Sync can be
    > manual or automatic(send all messages immediately, check every x sec)
    >
    >
    > These types of 'recovered' messages may show up as present in the Outbox
    > without any content or the Sent Folder(with content and the To field
    > containing the user email address.ie. as if sent to one self).
    >
    > The presence of, does not dictate lack of delivery of the message.
    >
    > It does dictate that something abnormal to routine operation occurred.
    >
    >
    > --
    > ...winston
    > ms-mvp mail
    >
    > "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    > news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

    >> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
    >> were
    >> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are now
    >> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    >> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
    >> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    >> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
    >> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
    >> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
    >> let
    >> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
    >>
    >> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    >> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    >> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
    >> have
    >> discussed them with the recipients.
    >>
    >> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
    >> WLM. I
    >> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream program.
    >>
    >> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
    >> product.
    >> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
    >>
    >> Any help appreciated.
    >>
    >> Tom
    >>
    >>
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9.    19 Feb 2009 #9
    Tom Brown Guest

    Re: Strange Behavior 2


    That's a reasonable explanation but maybe not the solution. I rarely shut
    my computer down. I tend to leave it running for days at a time so the index
    should have plenty of time to update. Oh, maybe you are talking about
    shutting down WLM and not the computer. I see another posting discussed
    this possibility and that's probably a good clue. Maybe if we had some
    visual indication that an indexes were still being updated, we could avoid
    unintentionally corrupting it.

    Also, I don't usually move my Sent or Outbox items (manually or with rules)
    to a different folder. I think it is probably some internal flag or index
    getting corrupted but I doubt it's anything I am doing as I have operated OE
    for decades without seeing this problem. Oh wait! Maybe I do recall moving
    a set of messages in my Outbox into the Drafts folder for temporary storage.
    I think I did that recently so I could send an individual message before I
    was ready to send the other messages in the Outbox. These could be clues
    that the development team could use to make the product more robust.

    One thing they could do to prevent people editing messages in the Outbox is
    to do a better job of formatting/word-wrapping in WLM and OE. I sometimes
    add or delete a word or sentence and find that when I preview the message in
    the Outbox (or Drafts), the formatting is really messed up.

    But, I do appreciate the suggestions. Keep them coming if you (or anyone
    else) thinks of some other possibility for this original problem.

    Tom




    "Michael Santovec" <michael_santovec@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:eGm60UgkJHA.1928@xxxxxx

    > I've seen some similar things with messages moved between folders either
    > manually or via message rules for messages downloaded via POP3 account.
    >
    > The one pattern I've noticed is that when it happens (and it doesn't
    > happen often), it is for messages that were moved just before closing WLM.
    > Might those have been messages that you sent and then quickly closed WLM?
    >
    > I'm suspecting that sometimes the message store index isn't getting
    > updated to disk during shutdown.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm
    >
    >
    >
    > "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    > news:#n$$cnfkJHA.4448@xxxxxx

    >> Third addendum:
    >>
    >> FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title of
    >> "Ok, this is really weird."
    >>
    >> Tom
    >>
    >>
    >> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    >> news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

    >>> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
    >>> were
    >>> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are
    >>> now
    >>> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    >>> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
    >>> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    >>> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
    >>> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
    >>> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
    >>> let
    >>> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
    >>>
    >>> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    >>> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    >>> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
    >>> have
    >>> discussed them with the recipients.
    >>>
    >>> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
    >>> WLM. I
    >>> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream
    >>> program.
    >>>
    >>> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
    >>> product.
    >>> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
    >>>
    >>> Any help appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> Tom
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10.    19 Feb 2009 #10
    Tom Brown Guest

    Re: Strange Behavior 2


    Ok, I'll work on that.

    Meanwhile, do you have any constructive suggestions for an appropriate title
    or solution for this problem?

    I have seen you make some good comments and suggestions but apparently you
    also view it as your duty to monitor the intelligence or maturity level of
    people attempting to find help? You are not going to change the world in
    that regard so may I suggest that you lighten up a bit in that area and
    stick to the technical suggestions.

    The good news is that I agree with you 100% on the issue of what the Outbox
    is intended for (mentioned in another thread) and the necessity to let them
    simmer a while in case you need to edit them before sending them. See, my
    generic (childish and unintelligent) subject line just now allowed me to
    address two problem in one post. But, I imagine I will get yelled at by
    someone for not sticking to the subject.

    Tom


    "D. Spencer Hines" <panther@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    news:uStdCAgkJHA.4696@xxxxxx

    > You need to think of better, more intelligent, grown-up and descriptive
    > SUBJECT LINES.
    > --
    > DSH
    > Lux et Veritas et Libertas
    > Vires et Honor
    >
    > "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    > news:%23n$$cnfkJHA.4448@xxxxxx
    >

    >> Third addendum:
    >>
    >> FYI, I previously posted this same problem on Jan 18th under the title of
    >> "Ok, this is really weird."
    >>
    >> Tom
    >>
    >>
    >> "Tom Brown" <NoSpam@xxxxxx> wrote in message
    >> news:ed6KnffkJHA.4912@xxxxxx

    >>> Today, I noticed I had six NEW (Unread) messages in my Sent Items that
    >>> were
    >>> messages I sent a few days ago. Also, all of these message titles are
    >>> now
    >>> stuck in my Outbox but when I click on the header, I see "Message Not
    >>> Found." "The contents of this message cannot be found." I am able to
    >>> delete these messages from my Outbox but they should not be there in
    >>> the first place as they were sent days ago. Again, they do not get sent
    >>> again as they have already been sent. I am using a POP3 account with the
    >>> mail.messagingengine.com server on a Fastmail.net account. I will also
    >>> let
    >>> them know of the problem although I think it probably originates in WLM.
    >>>
    >>> The other strange thing is that they stand out in the Sent Items list
    >>> because they are all addressed TO ME instead of the people they were
    >>> originally sent to. I am certain they were sent and received because I
    >>> have
    >>> discussed them with the recipients.
    >>>
    >>> This has happened a few times before and it really makes me not trust
    >>> WLM. I
    >>> consider this a fundamental operational problem in a mainstream
    >>> program.
    >>>
    >>> I believe I have the latest version and I am not aware it is a beta
    >>> product.
    >>> I have Version 2009 (Build 14.0.8064.0206).
    >>>
    >>> Any help appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> Tom
    >
    >
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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